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The election in France is evidence that the people taking handouts overwhelm the producers. This is exactly what Obama is trying to achieve.
I agree with Jerry, Karen.
Absolutely! Bob Hoye on HoweStreet is wrong. The psychology is not going to go towards sound money in the USA or any Western country. We have to sink right into the abyss of socialism and have a mega-disaster first. The when we have lost everything we will cry out for sound mney. It is only human. (Karen and guys – do you think Obama will win?)
Roger, you r mate got 30 days holiday? Bah! I worked for a UK university and I got 30 days paid vacation + 8 public holidays + 4 more days at Christmas when it was considered not safe to go into the chemistry laboratories alone between Christmas and the New Year because the university was ‘closed’. Total 42 days’ paid leave! That was a nice job. I wish I was back there now!
Karen,,,,I think you are correct….
The ‘banksters’ dictate and control monetary policy and currency manipulation.
They pump the money into their favorite banks and investing vehicles, and this money is siphoned off, skimmed off and quietly handed off to their buddies under the table. The debt from all this financial chicanery is passed onto the common man, the serfs, to pay for it. Taxes are raised under the guise of paying for the expanded ‘services’ and ‘benefits’ that the gov’t provides to its citizenry. BUT, we all know of course, that all it really serves to do is expand the reach and control of gov’t! Interest rates are then raised to account for inflation. But inflation quietly outpaces the rise in wages, so that assets and incomes are deflated through this silent thievery. This so called ‘austerity’, is only one piece of the puzzle. Here’s the problem with the way austerity is being implimented. While a necessary component for the healing of an economic system, it is only one of many necessary pieces. If it is employed by itself, it only hurts the little guy, or the backbone of any economy, which is the producing middle class. As such, it only serves to finish off/terminate the patient, and is nothing more than the final nail in the coffin of that economy. Just my 2 cents.
In my opinion, purely and simply austerity is a necessary outcome of over-spending. Why can’t people simply realize that.
The next change in France could be, and probably will be, much, much worse!
Sure, austerity is the result of bankruptcy, in the case of EU countries.
In the case of Ireland, for example, it is the banks that are bankrupt and the austerity is rammed down the throat of the people. The banks are bust and the people must pay.
In Greece, no matter how much austerity you impose, the debts are utterly unrepayable – even with the haircuts that selected bondholders have taken.
I remember what Spain looked like in the ’70s. Basically a rather poor country with no industry worth speaking about. Those people who had cars, drove tiny ones, life was simple and generally not affluent at all. The same can be said for Greece. The tourist ghettos were islands of prosperity, but the people were not prosperous. Compared to the industrial northern countries and North America, southern Europe was just plain and simple poor.
Then this started to change. Building and construction booms everywhere. I remember wondering, “how is this possible?! Is EU membership THAT conducive to economic growth?” It seemed that the answer was yes.
Only much, much later did it come out that all of the wonderful economic growth was nothing more than a debt-charged boom. Debts are fine, as long as you can repay them. Southern European countries were never in any condition to repay the debts they were wracking up.
The real problem is not that the people are unwilling to live with the austerity, but that austerity won’t solve the debt problem.
What would solve the problem is a debt-jubilee. But I suspect the Lake Of Fire will freeze over before THEY will agree to eating big losses. Maybe it will be forced upon them, yet.
And does anyone know what happened to the Greek gold? I haven’t heard, but I have a very strong feeling that it has changed owners.
So what does a realistic future for the poor little pigs look like? They will have to go back to a lifestyle that is commensurate with their economies abilities to pay for it.
Practically, this means returning to the way they lived in the ’70s and ’80s. But now that the people have gotten used to a higher standard of living, they feel entitled to it. How do you ratchet back expectations of a generation that has known only debt prosperity?
Absolutely Big Al,
I am strongly inclined to agree!
“Austerity” = a mechanism/policy by which a gov’t is forced to curtail spending and bring it’s expenses into line with available real revenue, not debt.
If actually done properly, and a nation was not too heavily in debt, it might work, but at some point when the debt becomes so massive that the interest on that debt exceeds a country’s ability to pay it back, then the train is loose, and becomes a runaway and only the gorge will stop it, albeit in a massive explosion and ball of fire. Austerity, in my thinking, will only work when the debts of a nation are manageable, and I think ours are past manageability.
2012 US National debt: 15.7 trillion dollars
2011 US GDP: 15.0 trillion ”
2011 US Fed Spending 3.6 trillion ”
2011 US Budget Deficit 1.6 trillion ”
What thinketh yee all? Have we hit the point of no return? The National debt figures do not even take into account the derivative mess.
2011 (OTC) global derivatives: 708 trillion dollars
2011 Global GDP: 70 trillion ”
Taken from BIS records.
There are only a few options for the future:
1. The easiest option for politicians: inflate away the debt. This way you can make the people pay for it through higher prices and THEY don’t get hurt. This is the most likely outcome. Inflation is a form of austerity.
2. Default. Politically difficult, especially when you are the US.
3. Debt forgiveness. Complicated, unfair in that the most irresponsible spenders have the most to gain. Creates moral hazard.
From Al’s buddy Jim Turk today:
“The key point is that falling bond prices mean big losses for the Euro banks and the ECB, which have been the big buyers of these bonds of late.”
Think about it…..the banks were bailed out by the governments…..the banks had to buy the government debt……then the banks get bailed out again…..then the banks bail out the government debt…..on and on ….. it makes me think of the banks and governments in a giant ying yang cyclical cluster of economic chaos, to wit:
A link that hopeflly works:
Dennis: Because all this Money was created from nothing and quickly reaches its intrinsic value of nothing, the banks and government officials figure they never lost anything, at least that’s the way they see it today. But the people in these countries have lost big time, and continue to loose until such time they have nothing left to loose and that is when the people really loose it. Little bit of Gerald Celente thinking.
Charles Ponzi and P.T. Barnum would feel like innocent children compared to what these governments and banks are doing today.
Call it what it is….it is not just a puppy chasing it’s tail…..this is a cabal.
You’re right as well as many others on this site.
This ‘cabal’, as you so aptly put it, is evil in its essence, at its core. The players of this global monetary ‘game’, have to view themselves as the ‘Chosen Ones’, the ‘Illuminated Ones’. They see themselves as the arbiters of people’s lives. They must regulate and manage the system. They see the “Bourgeoisie”/working person, as nothing more than their little chess piece, to use and control for their own selfish and despotic aggrandizement. To desire to control another person and use them for one’s own purposes is evil, because at its core it views oneself as superior(God-like) and others as inferior, and only here for the purpose of my pleasure. When pride arose in Lucifer’s heart he said, “I will be like the Most High”. Arrogance is his trademark and he is the father of these kinds of attitudes.
Hi Big Al,
After non-farm payrolls numbers from last Friday, often a few days latter is a trend that develops for the dollar. This is a tradeable trend most times. Best to all.
There is some speculation today that if Germany can’t work out problems with the other European countries re: austerity that they may pull out of the Euro and return to to the Mark. This will make their exports more expensive but the speculation is that they might do so to protect the wealth that they have.
And if Greece and France and others won’t do what is necessary reign in spending and pull out or are kicked out of the EU, then how will the franc and drachma survive and how will these countries then pay for imports with their soon to be worthless currencies?
I predict the end of the euro but don’t know when of course unless there is a significant change in mindset over there but am not holding my breath……..
I further predict that Bock’s theory on a two tired monetary system may become a reality if it is not already in the works. National currencies for National, in countryl commerce and a world currency the value of which will be determined by how much the currency for each nation is at least partially backed by gold. Othwerwise I see no reason why central banks are now slowly hoarding gold; slowly on an agreed to allocation basis so as to not to drive the price up too far too quickly. If indeed we still have 8000+ tons unencumbered in the U.S., we might fair better than other countries.
Just my 2 bits worth.
Dai Uy……THAT WILL BE THE QUESTION , IS THERE, AND WHERE IS THE 8000 TONS…
You can bet your bottom gold ducat that the 8000 ton is NOT where it is supposed to be! It’s still “there”, but where is “there?”
It is also highly likely that the over 1700 tons German had stored in the US has been leased out never to be seen again.
Did you know that it’s illegal in Germany to inquire what has happened to the country’s gold?
I wish people would realize fraudsterity does not work to solve any of the economic woes. Webster Tarpley, although I don`t like his acceptance of the fractionnal banking system about to implode, makes a very good, well documented case against any austerity mesures bringing back sanity to society.
We first have to put the crooks running the system in jail. Don`t wait for a prosecutor to do the job, anyone can go in front of Grand Jury to present evidence. That goes for election frauds, financial frauds, etc., etc.
No one is going to serve us justice on a golden platter. We’ll have to pledge our honor and treasure to this.
Wait till you see the kind of austerity a collapsing currency, economy, and banking system imposes! The West is well beyond the point at which massive pain could have been avoided. Ol’ Tarpy has an interesting background:
Typical of a troll: attack the messenger, not the message.
Larouche scared the hell out of the powers that be in his days. And his research credibly points to the correct guilty parties concerning the financial mess.
Exchanging the current currencies for new ones not issued as debt but as a value of raw material production, writting off the odious portions of sovereing depts (the trillions given to banks) and eliminating the fractionnal reserve system would make any country avoid the terrible social consequences of fraudsterity. But instead, we`ll go your rout, and probably see more pain than in the ’30s.
Now, does millions of deaths qualify as genocide in your book these days?
The researcher, Boris Borisov, in his article titled â€śThe American Famineâ€ť estimated the victims of the financial crisis in the US at over seven million people.
I’ve already attacked the “message” sufficiently. On Tarpley, I was referring to his family’s ties to a large defense contractor. Doesn’t really fit with his crusade, does it?
Even goldbugs aren’t delusional enough to think that all the pain can be avoided with even a drastic, but fair, changing of the monetary system. Even if you extend your writing off of “odious” debt to households, a huge segment of society will still have nothing. Competition for increasingly scarce resources globally ensures a lower standard of living for most people.
The problem with your “solution” is probably not in the theory, but in the execution. Real money eliminates such a problem because there is nothing that requires executing. Gold is the best proxy for your raw materials as proven by it’s superb relative stability compared to them. Balance comes naturally. Your fundamental misunderstanding rests with the fact that you trust a central authority more than the free actions of men and women in the marketplace. Honest money has to be the foundation of an honest system. Without it, any honesty will be short lived. Dreamers, such as yourself, expect what never has been, and never will be.
The people’s representatives have failed them for the last century, but you don’t want to talk about that.
…delusional…fundamental misunderstanding…Dreamers, such as yourself….
Can you make an argument without attempting to denigrate your interlocutor? I guess not. So on to your diatribe….
“Even goldbugs arenâ€™t delusional enough to think that all the pain can be avoided…”
I do not know of any goldbug that takes any pain can be avoided. They just step over that hump (more like a giant mountain range) and move on to how wonderful the world will be once gold is the vehicule governments use for taxing the people.
“…a huge segment of society will still have nothing…” Not to trivialize this, but that is still better than quadrillions in debt for derivatives commitments based on nothing or trillions in student loans.
“Competition for increasingly scarce resources globally ensures a lower standard of living for most people.”
Ho boy, right out of the globalists play book.
Go look at what a close ecological system entails, consider how much waste our system discards, expose yourself to the concept of “disruptive technologies”, open your mind to life on this planet as intended by our Creator and you may eventually conclude the world he created for humans does not need to cull its progeniture to insure its survival as a whole.
“Real money…” – Money is whatever a group of individuals decide can be use as an exchange of value. Silver, copper, sea shells… Currency is what governments impose as the vehicule to pay taxes. Stop living in golden lala land as if it is an all to all.
“Gold is the best proxy for your raw materials as proven by itâ€™s superb relative stability compared to them. ” Stability? Buy high and sell low in the gold market and tell me if you find it “stable”.
Your fundamental misunderstanding rests with the fact that you trust a central authority more than the free actions of men and women in the marketplace.
Why, right out of the Austrian School of Economics this time, glad to see you do read. I’d be curious to know what you read to have such insight into the minds of people you`ve never met. I do not trust central authorities, the epitimy being, in my view, the 10 planks of the communist manifesto. That is why I would gladly see each county in the US issue their own currency based on their raw material production.
“Honest money…” Their was a sign at one of the Federal Reserve Protest that said “Honest money is debt free money. Debt free money is honest money.” If the government has to tax (and it does), I want that vehicule to be free of debt. If governments use gold, it will have to be lent to them, therefore to the people, at interest. I say, no thanks.
“Dreamers, such as yourself, expect what never has been, and never will be.” Against, love that insight into the mind of people you`ve never met. Definitly adds to the credibility of your argumentation. Keep it up.
“The peopleâ€™s representatives have failed them for the last century, but you donâ€™t want to talk about that.”
The People failed, young man. They trusted in the individuals representing them, not realizing THEY themselves, the People, are the ultimate stewards of the society they pass on to the next generation.
I would talk about that all day, with Al`s permission, of course.
“Stability? Buy high and sell low in the gold market and tell me if you find it â€śstableâ€ť.”
Measured in dollars, gold will NEVER appear to be stable! How clueless can you be? The very simple and undeniable fact is that no other currency/money has been more stable in terms of it’s REAL purchasing power. I’ve laid it all out very clearly with very simple examples but you choose not to learn.
“The People failed, young man. They trusted in the individuals representing them, not realizing THEY themselves, the People, are the ultimate stewards of the society they pass on to the next generation.” This is simply ridiculous. The people are the “stewards” ONLY if their money does not have counterparty risk. Government issued paper will ALWAYS be corrupted by those few in charge.
“Debt free money is honest money.” And what do you think all paper money amounts to? Paper cannot be anything but an IOU. It’s value depends completely on how it is managed. Unlike gold, it costs nothing to produce.
Sorry son, but the historical and current evidence does not support your paper argument. Some part of your being surely understands this. Otherwise, why would you frequent this site and by doing so imply an interest in gold?
â€śCompetition for increasingly scarce resources globally ensures a lower standard of living for most people.â€ť Reality is “right out of the globalists playbook?” Ha Ha Ha!
“They just step over that hump (more like a giant mountain range) and move on to how wonderful the world will be…” I do not think this and don’t know of a single goldbug who does. The liberties you take show that you operate on emotion, not reason.
I think that Matthew is using the word stable to mean chemically stable, am I right?He does not been the price is necessarily stable, at least, that’s how I read it. Of course it is stable over centuries timescale.
Austerity – not new to Europeans.
New for the US – you can’t use credit cards for ever – and the US may be the real perprepator here – see this reality how much it is (ab)used in US, where cash has already become suspect!
Lot’s more to say here, though I guess where I’m going with this – as it was in reality the Wall Street big shots, or is it shits starting with what used to be called financial engineering, or better bets on everything upon more of it and then repackageing the whole shebang into cripple A investment grade junk to offal and selling it on to unsuspecting clients across the globe; The perps held their noses because of the stink of defrauding clients, and sub perps passed it along as fast as possible to other sovereigns, states, munis and funds and added their own derivative slush into a global game of who’s dunnit.
Forgive me, my friends in the US of A, when aome of EU’s feel cheated by a country, we’ve adored becoming close and closer to the devastating process the fascists had started in our sphere some 3-4 generations ago.
State Corporatis’m and all the rest of it is where it starts. War against terror, with all its facets is just another great way to take away liberty and in the end it is – hey my neighbor hides some assets from the IRS – and then Guantanamo may look like a reprieve – as concentration camps are opened throughout the USSA, which already holds 8% of its population in “corrective” custody.
So here comes AUSTERITY to the US. The wasted middle class is decimated, like in the EU, the liberty is in shambles and whatever is left of the greatest consitution ever designed by mankind is amended to smithereens, while imbeciles are still jockeying to move into White House.
While i guess, Ron Paul, may be the only real solution I also feel that all his so called supporters are just … blowing in the wind … instead of standing up and voting “FOR” a MAN and his MESSAGE – vis a vis voting for the minor evil or not at all.
Stand tall Americans and vote for us all!
@frr – The executive office is there to do just that, execute. Execute the intructions given by the Congress. One man alone will not save the nation, the people will. Governments of the people, by the people, for the people. Faschism, communisim, power grabbing freaks always put a “strong man” in front to lead and mislead. We need the people involved.
Even Charlie Daniels now gets it:
Our Constitution is being ignored, our states rights are becoming nonexistent, the Department of Justice is becoming a Gestapo that dictates the affairs of sovereign states, the Presidency is becoming like a Monarchy that rules by executive order and the fiat of czars who regulate huge fiefdom through no other power than presidential decree, bypassing a duly elected Congress and thereby, we the people.
Yeah, get the people involved. That is, if you want to see hyperinflation sooner, rather than later. There is still no sign that a sufficient number of people have any clue as to what should be done, much less the will. Given the chance, they will vote for “their” stuff.
Your attitude certainly will get us there. I forgot, you just want to “let them eat cake”….
Nope. I just recognize the difference between reality and fantasy. A free market is a fair market. That’s the best we can do -which isn’t bad at all.
I agree whole-heartedly. A free market is the fairest market system that we humans can have. In a free market, those with the most to gain and lose, are in control, thus the actions of participants will be guided by the normal self-regulating moral, emotional, and psychological factors to keep the system in harmony and balance. Conversely, if an economic system is dictated and managed by outsiders; ie. referees and judges, who make their money off the proceeds of the market actions, they will, due to their corrupt natures, begin to ‘wheel’ and ‘deal’, connive and scheme, to maximize their illicit gains from the market’s activities. With their objective being theft and robbery of OPM, they will lose sight of maintaining and caring for the immediate needs of the system, and will abuse, manipulate and sacrifice the long-term health of that system for their own near-term benefit. In the end of a system controlled by outsiders, the system is drained of resources, sapped of its energy and dies a suffocating death. Oh…..yeh,,,,,right, that’s what’s going on right now!
I don`t know where you see a free market around here. Remove your blinders, it`s not all about goldy gold.
Federal agents have raided the Gibson Guitar factories and offices in Memphis and Nashville, seizing several pallets of wood, computer data and guitars.
Gibson’s chairman and CEO Henry Juszkiewicz accused the Justice Department of bulying their company, saying their wood is from a Forest Stewardship Council certified supplier and that the feds are using needlessly aggressive tactics.
Did I say that there is a free market? PLEASE learn how to read!
Just so you’re clear, you cannot have a free market when money itself is not a product of the market (private enterprise). Gold is. Your paper is not.
It feels like beating a dead horse, but if governments create demand out of this air (through taxation) for a commodity (in this case, gold), is it not government intervention, therefore the absence of free market?
Demand created out of this air through taxation skews the price (value) a a commodity.
I would however agree to no taxation on gold, silver and copper. That way, their would be a simple outlet of irresponsible currency creation.
Demand for gold has never depended on government support. When governments all pulled support by going to fiat money, it didn’t affect the long term value relationship between gold, commodities, wages, tuition, cars, etc. Over 40 years ago, mainstream economists predicted that gold would fall to $6 – $8 if it lost it’s dollar backing. Talk about Orwellian.
“Demand for gold has never depended on government”
Does taxation influence the velocity of money?
Are you denying that the velocity of money has an effect on inflation?
In case anybody’s curious, the new French president Hollande’s name is pronounced something like this: “O-lawn-duh” — so the “H” at the beginning is silent but the “d” near the end is sounded because there’s an “e” following it.
I was thinking of posting that myself. Then again, I doubt Mssr Hollande would pronounce Korelin correctly! (probably cor-a-leh en FranĂ§ais). So fair is fair.
Just for the fun of it:
The Truth About the Health Care Bills – Michael Connelly, Ret. Constitutional Attorney 08.24.09
Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.
To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.
The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.
However, as scary as all of that it, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.
The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesnâ€™t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with. I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.
This legislation also provides for access by the appointees of the Obama administration of all of your personal healthcare information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.
If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed â€śacceptableâ€ť to the â€śHealth Choices Administratorâ€ť appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a â€śtaxâ€ť instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesnâ€™t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the â€śdue process of law.
So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much out the original ten in the Bill of Rights that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesnâ€™t stop there though. The 9th Amendment that provides: â€śThe enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;â€ť The 10th Amendment states: â€śThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people.â€ť Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.
I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to â€śbe bound by oath or affirmationâ€ť to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.
For those who might doubt the nature of this threat I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution: http://www.archives.gov/ex hibits/charters/constituti on_transcript.html
And another to the Bill of Rights: http://www.archives.gov/ex hibits/charters/bill_of_ri ghts_transcript.html
There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.
Michael Connelly Retired attorney, Constitutional Law Instructor Carrollton , Texas
The Truth About the Health Care Bills – Michael Connelly, Ret. Constitutional
Posted on September-14-09 10:29:44 AM by Chattering Class of 58
This whole problem relates to oversupply of labor worldwide. I remember listening to Buckminster Fuller on the old Tonight Show with Johnny Carson talking about the coming technology and how much of mankind’s labor would be useless. Sure, there is peak oil, maybe peak fiat currency, how about peak food? how about peak humans?
“oversupply of labor worldwide” – I bet you have not idea where this concepts comes from. Try Thomas Robert Malthus and Eugenics for a start. You probably will eventually figure out that “oversupply of labor” is elitist code for “start culling the heard”.
Overpopulation: The Making of a Myth