Big Al and Cory weigh in on the Israeli – Hamas situation.
Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show
Sorry Zionist are not semitic people
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
Thanks for this article. I just finished reading it.
Np Al !
Have a good one today.
Best to you,
LPG
AND Al….?!
In a word LPG – Sanctions, and just why the hell not?
Sorry Zionist are not semitic people
Okay ugly but proud, point is taken.
YOU TOTALY DON’t GET IT !!!!!!!! YOUR BREAM WASH ( TV ) SHEEPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ISRAEL & PALESTINE 120 DEAD SIRYA 1700 DEAD NO TV IDIOT’S https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FeLZKLA4ww
DAY MAKE PLAN’S !!!!!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDVbPQxrRc0
ALL ARE WELL COM AL ( TUMPS UP TO REV ) !!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks franky….Jesus is LORD!!
ditto A……..
AL if you didnt see this years ago, PLEASE watch now. I know you guys have seen through the nonsense these days in regards to western media, doctorrd numbers, crooked institutions etc. This piece is some great perspective in regards to western propaganda several years ago!! Might help round out perspective on current news re: israel, etc
classic antipropaganda interview
One comment That really sticks in my craw is: he said even the Christians are in support of humas . How dum’ how insane is this? What the vfddfghbhjhgfcv is this??? When Islam will not quit till it slauters not only all Israelys but Christians’ they have repeatedly said this, just burns me.
That’s ludicrous , “Islam” is not slaughtering anyone. Sociopathic liars use Islam as a war cry and do dis service to the vast majority of nonviolent Muslims who want none of it (violence). This video was from several years ago btw and his reference to Christians was to all those living in Lebanon . And was 100% accurate
But they want to benefit from the violence
You might think I am crazy but I agree with you.
Give me a moment to summarize my thoughts.
Al, with whom to do you agree , what, when? – With the utmost respect you so often speak in platitudes that it becomes almost impossible to know what you REALLY think! Or are you merely an impartial referee?
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
Thanks Jay.
Thanks Jay. Watched it.
Sorry big al about the double posting. Didn’t the Zionist bomb first, on accusations of the 3 murderd israelis?
No problem with the double posting “proud”
The answer to your question can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_20
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
If the situation couldn’t get any worse: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/gaza-crisis-isis-pledge-join-palestinian-fight-against-barbaric-jews-1459190
Oh yeah, the main circus act is yet to be seen.
Sir,
Do you enjoy this Jew hate? I know that the Anglo race is a vile and hateful one so i am not surprised. But I so wish that ISIS comes to America. THe White boys will think that hating Jews will save them.
ISIS should be exterminated from the face of the earth. No mercy for these murderous savages.
http://shoebat.com/2014/07/29/rare-footage-muslims-create-literal-river-human-blood-butchering-1500-innocent-people/
From what I know about this organization, I would certainly agree C!
Al,
The root of the Arab/Israelis conflict is that US and UK use Israel as the step stone to control the resource rich middle east. This is just like to put two gladiators in a cage to watch them killing each other. There is no way for Arabs to stop attacking Israel. Without looking at the big picture, we end up splitting to two parties, each blaming the other side.
As for Hamas, they are defending their country. They can use whatever means available to them including anything deemed criminal. As you mentioned that them put themselves and their countryman in danger. You bet. I wouldn’t blame them. Look back to the history, if some of the die-hard patriots in my country did use atrocity to deal with invaders, we would not exist.
Lawrence …..Ditto
So darn many sides to this story, Lawrence!
Yes but he who’s neutral in this fight Al……
Al, America’s foreign policy has been wrong for a long time because educated people like you don’t understand the cause behind a lot of trouble in the world is a result of your country’s foreign policy. Ron Paul is always pointing this out but you for some reason refuse to see the real cause. What is happening in the middle east and much of the rest of the world’s trouble spots has been because American and British governments keep meddling into the lives of other counties. Maybe they should try to solve their own problems which are many and varied.
DT…..another Ditto.
I have never disagreed with that, Machine Gun!
Al, you must disagree with what I said or you wouldn’t see Hamas as the aggressors.
Really Al, I think you must listen to yourself in this interview afterall listening is one of the hardest skills to develop.
DT, I think you are right on. Even there are many sides as Al pointed out, the root of the problem is US and UK foreign policy (or more precisely, the desire of world dominance). The action of placing Israel in this troubled and deeply religious land has costed millions of lives and, even worse, there is no practical solution. Israel is the pawn and Palestinians are the victims. Even I am a pure outsider on this, I can not stop myself from feeling angry.
Lawrence, very well put! One of the only honest attacks against western propaganda regarding Israel / Palestine was a killer salvaging of Rupert Murdock s sky news by George Galloway. Classic footage as a suitable reminder how ridiculous the language and view the west propagate s in the mainstream
It can be Machine Gun, but please read my reply to Machine Gun.
Jay,
This is a great interview. It ripped the cover off the western media, at least once. I lived through the propaganda of communism. My opinion is that werstern propaganda is more professional and deceiving than communism. Communists are not likely to put so much effort to perfect the skills since they get the force.
Looking into this situation more and more. (Actually since about 7:15 a.m. today.) I will give my personal final thoughts later today.
you don’t have to be blind to see an aggressor like hammas. DT you have got to be kidding….
Gator, that is exactly my criticism of Al. Why don’t you try to solve your own problems, what about your border and the 70 million people getting government assistance, now what is it you can’t figure out?
Have you noticed Gator when they don’t like your train of thought they forget to put reply to this comment. That is the problem with all societies either you toe the main line or they restrict your thought.
Common man, listen to what I am saying. All I said is that Hamas was the initial aggressor in this particular situation.
Machine Gun,
Of course the way the U.S. is handling the border situation is abysmal.
Looking into this situation more and more. (Actually since abot 7:15 a.m. today.) I will give my personal final thoughts later today.
Hamas is Israeli “controlled opposition.” Israel secretly loves and supports Hamas as Hamas gives them the excuse to steal more land from the Palestinians. Here’s the proof:
http://ppjg.me/2014/07/22/is-hamas-controlled-opposition-who-benefits/
Remember the old Tv series “The Naked City” There were a million stories in it and the particular segment was just one of them.
That I can believe John.
The problem with the citizen’s of the UK & the US is they believe their countries are run by their elected governments , when in fact they are run by the money cartel…
ZION…………..
Zion as in the biblical sense?
No Al, you should know better than that!
What a bunch of baloney. I am guessing you are also going to tell me that the UK is run by a bunch of pedophiles as well. Oh wait…
Irishtony,
I would clarify your correct statement by saying that the Rothschilds are the money power. It’s estimated that they own half the wealth of the world, plenty enough to control the media and politicians.
John,
Thank you for this. I think this is way exaggerated re: the Rothschild.
But even if I am wrong and therefore your quote is accurate/reflects reality, here are the good news, IMHO:
1) thankfully, some men cannot be bought
2) the other 1/2 of the world’s wealth doesn’t belong to them
3) they might be a large family… but we are billions.
Best,
LPG
Thank you LPG!
Irishtony,
Elizabeth Dilling agrees with you. These are our prostitute reps in the District of Criminals “falling to pieces” over the Israeli butcher:
http://buelahman.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/falling-to-pieces-for-israel/
No actually Chris, I think what Mr. Irish means is that the Vatican is behind this whole thing!
Darn, bit my tongue again! Mr. Irish would not say that.
Big Al, you’re a smart guy, can you make any sense of this: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/terms-of-trade
What the hell happened in July?
The 3rd temple of jerusalem will be built NO PROBLEM !!!!!!!!!!!!
Another thoughtful view on this mess:
article by Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/29/israel-stealing-murdering-way-palestine-paul-craig-roberts/
Already posted Nathan, but thanks.
I really don’t think Al listens much, he likes to present Ron Paul, and Bob Moriarty and although he claims to like their train of thought when it comes down to him talking about his personal beliefs they aren’t even close to the way these two guests explain their rationale thought. So to me it looks like what we are seeing is business as usual and this comes from people I have always thought should be well informed.
DT: Greg Hunter’s exactly the same, except he chucked me off his post!! If GH isn’t a shill, he’s a closet Zionist Christian. I believe that Al K is more honourable but I wish to God he’d be more definite about things.
Al and Cory, you have this 100% dead wrong. Let’s go back and go over what really happened.
Three Israeli’s were kidnapped and killed. One was a soldier so they weren’t children. That was on the West Bank. Hamas had nothing at all to do with the killing. Israel then kills four people in the West Bank and arrests over 400 even though they know the three people had been killed. Israel knew they were dead and pretended to be looking for them.
Hamas in Gaza, not the West Bank retaliates against an unprovoked attack by Israel. Israel then deploys their army, navy, air force against what is essentially a defenseless prison camp.
To suggest Hamas doesn’t care about their people dying is monstrous. As is bombing dozen of schools, mosques and hospitals. Every time Israel lies about what really happened. School? We didn’t mortar any school, not us. Oops, we did mortar the school but our shell hit an empty yard. They even show pictures of the mortar round hitting an empty space. What they don’t say is shooting mortars is like eating popcorn. You don’t do just one. They fired half a dozen rounds, one of which hit an empty school yard and the rest killed 16 children. And all along they knew they were the ones who killed the children.
Now they have bombed another school and killed another 20 children. It’s horrible to suggest Hamas, the legally elected government of Gaza is the terrorist state. We know who the terrorists are, they are the IDF.
Now Gaza will have no electricity for at least a year. The IDF general swears up and down it was an accident, the bombs somehow bounced along the ground and hit the power station. He’s lying. Bombs don’t bounce along the ground.
One side is a terrorist state. One side doesn’t care about civilian deaths. One side attacks hospitals, schools, churches and shoots civilians doing nothing more than searching for their dead family.
Israel and the monsters who support them are running a reverse IQ test. If you believe that a nation that has killed over 1000 innocent civilians as compared to Hamas having killed three if you believe the country keeping 1.8 million people in a prison camp is the victim, that means you are stupid.
Anyone that could look at the pictures of those four dead children on the beach, the oldest was only 11, all from one family, deliberately murdered by the Israeli navy because they were playing soccer. If you can look at those pictures and not gag at the though of Israel playing victim, you need to go down to WalMart and buy a new moral compass because yours is broken.
Iv’e been telling Al for a week that he needed to cover this and tell the real story. Now I understand why I haven’t been called. He doesn’t want the other side told.
Israel is a nation of monsters who intend to steal all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. This has been the plan for 70 years and it’s in writing. This is nothing less than genocide and mass murder and the US is paying for the bullets.
We could end the bloodshed in a day by telling Israel we aren’t shelling over any more billions of dollars for them to commit war crimes and stationing a Marine company in Gaza to help the people rebuild. And pray the cowards in Israel didn’t fire a round at Gaza because the Marines would level Israel and leave it a smoking wreckage.
Israel is a nation of cowards and war criminals. Don’t believe me, read the Goldstone Report where a Zionist Judge concluded the IDF committed 34 individual war crimes.
Two comments Bob,
First of all I accurately pointed out who was the initial aggressor in this specific situation.
Secondly, my friend, I thought you were out of town . Sorry
Big Al
And Bob,
I have to add: what do you mean I don’t want the other side of the story told?
That’s just crazy.
Your friend,
Al
Al, I suggest not to discuss this topic any more since it is too sensitive, too sad and too obviously wrong and no one can do anything about it. It also does not help our investing. If a by-stander like me feel strongly, what about the people involved in one side.
I am pretty sure Israel is following a policy of ethnic cleansing. Everything is planned.
You might think I am crazy but I agree with you.
Give me a moment to summarize my thoughts.
See what I mean about politics Al? It just brings out crazy talk. The internet has made everyone so informed it has turned all their brains to porridge. Nowadays anybody can manufacture news and content while those gullible enough to take it seriously just buy it up and eat it for lunch. I spend years living over in this part of the world and my personal observations are worth squat while some moron based in a basement in Alabama (example only, not referring to Lawrence) constitutes an expert on regional issues and does a good job manipulating attitudes. Unbelievable!
+1 on the last sentence of your comment Lawrence.
Lawrence did you see the man from the UN ‘very unprofessionally according to some observers of ending his report by bawling his eyes out?
Unfortunately UN is an inept organization. If there is a general assembly vote, it is not in Israel’s favour every time. I don’t take it seriously.
Thank you Bob , nailed in on the head!! If this wasn’t what the powers that be in Israel and America, they could end it in a heart beat
(In regards to commentary on Israel)
Bob,
I command your intellectual honestly and standing up for the oppressed.
I only disagree with you on one point, and it is that “Israel is a nation of cowards and war criminals”. I, for what it’s worth, personally don’t blame Israel yet its current government and the cowards and war criminals who happily follow its orders on the ground.
Luckily, there is an increasing number of good men and women within Israel that also say: “Not this. Not in my name”.
They truly good-hearted people cannot change the course of the current gvt’s politics at the moment, but as they grow larger in number by the day, at some point, these well-intended human being will really start to matter and help things change.
I will write this here again: IMHO, the Palestinian will get their land only with the help of the citizens of Israel of have enough of the atrocities committed in their name by their government.
I’ll now post below what I’ve posted one several occasions on this page as well.
Hope Al will forgive me for the multiple similar postings 🙂
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
Bob I’ve been trying to tell it only to get jerks like Birdman playing silly b…ers. Mind you he knows how to play devil’s advocate to perfection!!
Let me assure you I am not playing Devils Advocate. Your views are representative of your own personal bias but they do not always reflect the reality of what is happening nor take into account all the efforts to make peace that have been in progress for many years. Thank God you are not on the negotiating teams!
Israel has no other reasonable choice but to defend itself. We have a defense system to protect the US from a missle attack. I do not know how good it is, as defense system’s go, but I know we would not sit on hands and allow others to lob missles on on us.
If out government, with all of its problems, were to allow that, people would rise up and take matters into their own hands.
If Israel has a right of self defense, don’t Hamas have exactly the same right? Israel is not defending itself, it is waging an illegal war of aggression just as was made illegal by the Nuremberg war trials.
Israel fired first. They are not the victim.
Who started this Bob…….hamas is not fighting for self defense……they are and have been the aggressor and anyone that can’t see that is blind to the facts….
What are the facts according to you, back up your statement, I will be waiting for a response?
Good grief DT..Who dug the tunnels into Israel to commit terrorism? Who started firing rockets in Tel Aviv?…and the list goes on….don’t understand your thinking at all…..Your posts are normally interesting and informative but this one my friend is out in left field….regards !!
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
When did Israel fire first!
Today Al. Today.. lol not nearly the first time, but Israel just broke the ceacefire
RONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAMAS financed the kidnapping. One of the paid kidnappers already admitted to it. I know that Anglos are very gooooood when it comes to denying the past of their bloodybloodline. I should not expect more.
Perhaps you need to understand the Geneva Conventions
Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
Pillage is prohibited.
Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.
Gaza is legally an occupied territory and Israel is required by international law to protect the civilians there.
You passed the stupid IQ Test Gator.
Sure Hamas is the aggressor, they have killed 3 civilians, one of whom died of a heart attack and Israel has killed over 1100 civilians that they are required by the Geneva Convention to protect. How many hospitals did Hamas bomb? How many schools did Hamas bomb? How many churches? Or power stations? Or how many Jewish children have they murdered? When three Jews in the West Bank are kidnapped by someone other than Hamas, how are they the aggressor?
Who dug the tunnels from which they attack Israel….who hides rockets and bombs in schools full of children….Who lobs rockets into Israel killing civilians…..Need I go on or do you get the picture…..
Gator, how many attacks did Hamas make on Israel through the tunnels before Israel began the latest genocide? Answer-ZERO.
The schools with the rockets were empty for the summer. Number of schools full of children? Answer-ZERO
Who has killed three civilians in self defense after they were attacked? Hamas? Who has killed over 1100 civilians while claiming they don’t target civilians-Israel.
The US has more people killed every year from fireworks than Hamas has killed in 15 years by firing rockets. Total killed by Hamas in 15 years by rockets-22. Israel thinks firing on a school during a cease fire should kill more than 22.
Oh I see Bob….it is just kill rates that count. That is what you think terror is all about. You are wrong of course. Terror seeps into every aspect of ones life where it has been established. Controls are put in place. Habits are changed. Whole populations change their behaviors and begin avoiding certain areas, borders, airports, restaurants and public buildings out of fear. Life becomes less than normal. You never let your guard down anymore. You never relax. Since 2001 there have been more than 15,000 documented mortar and rocket attacks launched from Gaza. You think that is acceptable? In that time there have been three wars fought in Gaza in an attempt to eradicate the rockets, launchers and mortar sites and to disarm militants. Those came in 2006, 2009 and again 2014. Your argument does not carry any weight with me whatsoever. The terror inflicted on Israel, (and it is clearly terror in spite of low fatalities), is totally intolerable and unacceptable. For how many years would you accept your home and neighborhood being shelled indiscriminately before retaliating? Two years? Three years maybe? You are a man of war. What is your limit? I think that tolerance might just run out after 14 years and many thousands of relentless random attacks and you would certainly have reached a breaking point much sooner. Lets stick to the facts here Bob.
Birdman: If Israel has a right of self defense, does Hamas also have that same right? After all, they are living in a prison. Israel has fired 100 times the munitions into Gaza as Hamas or anyone else fired into Israel. One country is living under conditions of terror and it isn’t Israel.
Gaza is most certainly not a prison. The territory was handed over to authorities there in 2005 to do with as they pleased. It just so happened they were pleased to dig tunnels, import tens of thousands of shells, munitions, launchers, armaments and rockets and then launch them against Israel. That was there choice to make. They knew the consequences and now they are paying for it after so many years. I support the invasion 100%. Your hundred to one number is ridiculous by the way. How much do you think those 11,000 rockets fired since 2005 might weigh (45 kilos per rocket).
Birdman, seriously?? “Gaza is not a prison” .. your smarter than that.. Gaza has been dubbed the new warsaw ghetto on more than one occasion by people who have a longer memory of middle east history than 3 weeks . The Israeli government and forces do COMPLETE dishonor to the rest of the Jewish population and holocaust survivors by inflicting the same conditions on Palestinians that were inflicted on Jews in Warsaw during the second world war..
What is your suggestion to fix the situation Jay?
Give Palestine their land back, restore borders from pre 1967. Return the 1000s of kidnapped prisoners who are rotting away in Israeli dungeons and help build infrastructure… INSTEAD OF DEMOLISHING power plants, hospitals, schools, u.n. buildings…. we could also try a bit of unbiased journalism for a change???? As Galloway points out try to remember the name of 1 Palestinian who was slaughtered. … no problem naming Israeli soldiers tho ;/
Restore borders from 1967? OK. That is almost complete already. I pulled up a map so we can all look at it more closely. It is a fine idea to return Gaza to Egypt. One day they may all agree to do that although I am sure Egypt will object quite strenuously. Other than the Golan which is not negotiable ever, the process is already underway to create a Palestinian state in the West Bank if acceptable agreements can be reached on land trades. That is currently at an impasse but in time will likely be done.
Map of Pre-1967 Israeli Borders — Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/1967-israeli-pre-war-boundary/2011/05/19/AFgfHS7G_graphic.html
No Jay Birdman is NOT smarter than that. Likes to give an impression that he knows everything about nothing.
You are backsliding into the personal comments again, Andrew. Lets stick to the topic and to facts.
Getting all palsy are we now BM. Don’t even go there.
Who killed the native Americans? Your blood line. That should make you stop and think and stop accusing others of things you know nothing about.
Here is your family tree in action: By the 1850s, U.S. policymakers had adopted a popular
philosophy called “Manifest Destiny” by which they imagined themselves
enjoying a divinely ordained right to possess all native property,
including everything west of the Mississippi. This was coupled to what
has been termed a “rhetoric of extermination” by which
governmental and corporate leaders sought to shape public sentiment to
embrace the eradication of American Indians. The professed goal of
this physical reduction of “inferior” indigenous populations was
to open up land for “superior” Euro-American “pioneers.”
One outcome of this dual articulation was a series of general
massacres perpetrated by the United States military.
Gator,
With all due respect.
If you don’t mind going back in history…
During World War 2, when resistants across Europe were fighting Nazis…. do you think they were fighting them by writing blogposts on the internet, like what I’m comfortably doing now ? Or do you think they were fighting with arms ?
Now, these arms, do you think they were stocking them in a warehouse and putting a big panel at the entrance with big capital letters saying: “RESISTANCE AMMUNITION DEPOT”? Or do you think they were hiding them were possible?
Near where I lived, they used to hide part of them in forests, as they were vast forests around. Now, please try to find a forest in Gaza.
When you are fighting for your freedom, you try to be smarter than the enemy, especially when it is many folds more powerful that you with its military equipment – ask the US soldiers and what happened to them when fighting in Vietnam.
I am not saying that putting rockets in school is legitimate: I’m saying it is understandable, as resistants across history have done similar things or had similar behaviors.
As an aside:
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
Well, you are sure good at promotions LPG. The article you reference is lacking throughout though and I assume the author is unfamiliar with the peace process that has been underway since the Sixties. During that time huge swaths of land have been returned to adjoining Arab States and to the Palestinian Authority. One example is that the Sinai and parts of the Negev were handed over to Egypt in 1982. Gaza and a portion of the West Bank were turned over to Palestinians in two processes during 1995 and 2005. In the meantime, land was also granted back to Jordan to ensure the peace and even the Golan Heights were under consideration except that the Syrians were so intractable it became impossible to carry through. So there is hardly a land grab going on. To the contrary, Israel has been shrinking in size for decades.
Birdman,
Thank you for saying I am good at promotions. But actually, there’s nothing I actually try to promote.
I mention some facts, and lay my opinions. Up to readers to decides what makes sense and what doesn’t. Straight simple.
If Israel has been shrinking in size for decades, why are all these now hundreds of thousands of settlers being considered as illegal ? If the settlements were on Israel, they sure wouldn’t be called “illegal”, would they ? Why are they called “illegal settlements” ?
Why are some Palestinians having their own land cut in 2 by the “Great Protective Barrier” ?
Why are there hundreds of Israeli army military checkpoints on occupied Palestinian territories ?
Not much of all this seems to indicate to me the country of Israel is shrinking in size… Rather, it seems to indicate the opposite.
And here’s the latest from Zerohedge on the topic, in case you haven’t seen it already: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-31/scorched-earth-how-israel-converted-40-gaza-wasteland-rubble Again, it doesn’t really look like a shrinkage of the size of Israel.
Birdman, if I am good at promotions, then I found in you a Master !
Best,
LPG
You linked the same article five times. That smells of agenda to me.
As far as land transfers back to Palestinians go there is plenty to discuss and it is based on facts not conjecture. Here is the first: In January this year, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made an offer of a land transfer and swap with the Palestinians in discussion over the West Bank.
Netanyahu ready for land swap with Palestinians
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4473592,00.html
Here is a second major land transfer. Israel gave up all claims to the Sinai Peninsula. The deal was concluded in 1982 as a peace offering and in exchange Egypt recognized the statehood of Israel.
Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-Egyptian_peace_treaty
Bob unless people’s memories can go back farther than 3 weeks it will ALWAYS be “Palestinians ” at fault… utter nonsense imo
Utter programming.
+1 Jay
You begin Jay. Lets return the land of America to the natives. Any native who can prove their roots in America is entitled to a lot of it, using your logic. Lets discuss assigning all of your property.
In 1967 the Arabs wanted a war the same way your bloodline wanted a lot of wars against the natives. But in the case of Israel, the natives who returned to claim their stolen property, they won and won big!!! They returned the Sinai for an annual pension from Uncle Sam.
Either the USA allows Israel to retake the land or the US govt pays the annual pension.. KEEP PAYING!!! Thank Pres. Peanut for that
I would love for Hamas to move into Ireland and then listen to Bob’s thought about that.
hahahahahahahah
So Bob according to you rational if Hamas hijacked a plane loaded with innocent people and started dropping bombs all over Ireland would it be illegal to shoot it down.?
According to you it would be illegal since “no protected person (passengers in this case) may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed?
Hamas want to live in peace on the land they owned for 5000 years. They aren’t stealing Jewish land, the Jews stole their land. If your ancestors were Kazars and nobody ever came near Israel, you have the right of return. If the IDF ran you off your land 47 years ago just as they are trying to do to Gaza today, you don’t have any such right of return. Even the US agrees the 500,000 in settlements are all illegal, we just lack the moral backbone to enforce international law because Israel and bought and paid for our congress.
Why would Hamas move into Ireland? They had land, families and villages. Until the Zionists came along.
I’ve lost respect for you Bob! You have no idea what your endorsing.
Glenfidish,
Here’s an article on the topic, IMHO, which I have emailed to Cory and Al separately:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-logic-of-israeli-violence/
I encourage you all to read it and review/reconsider your opinions/views on this topic after reading it.
Best,
LPG
Bob, Hamas was founded in 1987 following the Intifada and they fought pitched battles with other more moderate Palestinian political organizations. Basically they forced their way into power. Since you are not aware of it, both Egypt and Jordan amongst a small group of Arab states consider them a terrorist organization. Hamas is an offshoot of the Islamic Brotherhood. Those countries I mention are neighbors of Israel so I suspect they have more insight into the situation than you do. Lastly, as Hamas did not even exist 5000 years ago that fact alone discredits the balance of your post.
And Bob, you should also consider that Jordan is 50% Palestinian in makeup. So it carries a great deal of weight that country is opposed to Hamas and considers the party a threat with roots in terrorism. I think we can safely say that Palestinians living in the region have spoken on the subject and they oppose the extremism that has had such a negative effect on their lives.
Birdman,
Zionism did not exist 5000 years ago.
That fact alone discredits the actions of zionists, as represented by the current Israeli government.
LPG
+1 Bob.
There is no proof to what you say. you re verrrry ignorant that Israel has 1.5 million Arabs.
Irish eh? The Conestoga (Susquehanna) tribe of the lower Susquehanna Valley of Pennsylvania was completely annihilated by the “Paxton Boys” Scotch-Irish militias at the end of the French and Indian War in 1763. The last survivors of the tribe sought and were granted refuge in the Lancaster County jail. The Paxton Boys forced their way in and massacred them. The liquidation of the Conestogas is documented by Benjamin Franklin and in “The Light in The Forest” by Conrad Richter.
If you are an American of irish descent, you descend from White Trash Moriarity!!!!!
If you are living in Ireland, your low IQ is due to your ancestors inability to fish during a famine!!! Either way, your views are worthless until you discuss the crimes of your bloodline
Bob, thanks for your comments, apperantly, people wanting the truth of it are in the minority. People keep insisting Hamas started this. They refuse to look at history.
I have said this many times, I have no idea how people can justify atrocities, but they do.
In this case they justify the murder of children, women and other inoccents.
There are people that see the twisted and torn corpse of a child and believe its actually justifiable, even a positive thing, some may even derive pleasure from it. I don’t believe these people can be reasoned with, their minds are somehow broken.
The only thing I can personally do, is voice my opinion when seeing the opportunity and not do business with anything that has a connection to Isreal.
Anyway, thanks for the comments, I always appreciate your views, especially when I agree with them.
+1 bb
BB, nobody here to my knowledge is in support of the death of innocent people so I am not sure why you continue with that line of argument. We should discuss a subject like that in the context of war itself rather than referring specifically to Israel versus Hamas in Gaza.
The fact is that since the end of the Second World War the number of civilian casualties in the 30 major wars during that time has typically been as high as 90% of all those killed and injured. Longer term studies show that civilian casualties have been on average lower though running at a rate of 50% or above.
So there is something to be said about modern war making that it inflicts such a high percentage of deaths on non-combat populations. In the case of Israel they have a better record than most and are known to investigate all cases where civilians deaths are reported to determine what went wrong.
At this time, the Gaza casualty rate is 70% which is substantially lower than what has been seen in most modern conflicts. All of us with a heart are appalled at those kinds of losses and individual cases can be heartbreaking. That however is not a reason to cause disengagement of warring parties. Nor has it ever been until a resolution can be achieved.
I suspect the carnage would have been substantially less had Hamas not been both storing and firing rockets from within civilian safe zones, elementary schools and UN properties. Furthermore, a large number of deaths are known to be attributable to Hamas rockets that were improperly targeted and to the use of civilians as human shields.
Howdy Bird.
The least bloody of governments thruout history has been monarchy.
The % of dead isn’t really the issue is it?
This debate seems to be centring around who is at fault.
I see the Isrealis at fault as well as the british and americans, planned for many years by Zionists the land was stolen from the palistinians, with british and American support.
Many arabs died in mass murder scenarios, this hasn’t stopped,…..ever.
I don’t want war, no sane person does, but I can in NO way support the murder and torture of anyone, much less children.
This might have started with Moses believing god told him to commit the genocide in Canan, more recently, it begins in the 1800s when the Zionists begin planning the creation of a jewish state using stolen lands in palistine. (neat story actualy)
Multiple mass murders take place beginning in about 1947/48. I posted many of the villages names that were irraticated.
I posted the attitudes of the Zionist leadership of Isreal, this hasn’t changed from the time the Jews felt it was ok to kill or steel from Goyim?(sp)
Blaming hamas for what they do would be the same thing as blaming the Jews for defending themselves at the Nazi created ghettos of the 40s.
The Isrealis “target” palistinian children, RT showed some palistinian towns, they are rubble Bird, this is way beyond “destroying tunnels”.
The Isrealis are murdering children, many children, this is disgusting.
I can not understand how this can be justified,……… Bird, a child is dying,…… writhering in pain,… its not right.
Anyone that figures their god thinks this is ok, my thinking, CHOOSE ANOTHER GOD.
The mistreatment of children is wrong, no matter who or how or why where or when no matter where its “written” anywhere.
Its just wrong, some day I hope people understand that.
Ultimatly, our discussion has zero effect, we are just giving opinions, doesn’t mean a thing really.
As I said before, I can in no way agree with child abuse of any kind, but at least people are thinking about their opinions. Which is more than the majority of people are capable of.
+1 bb
Unbelievable how brainwashed people are by the zionists. Their propagande as worked well. People here keep repeating the same crap we hear on CNN and FOX News about Isreal having the right to defend itself. There are freakin invaders, terrorists and child killers. Oh yeah because they do it with bombs then it’s “civilized”. I posted this video yesterday. I suggest all you zionists zombies go watch it. They hate you, they despise you, they think you are less than a cockroach..and yet you support them. Look at these Jews NOT supporting Israel, think you will see that in the media in North America? not a chance….wake up people….you just don’t get it
Why bother, Mike? Mr. and Mrs. Cannonfoddershitforbrains are a lost cause.
That is pure propaganda, Mike. Do you really believe what you are seeing?
Birdman….what are you saying? That what you watch on CNN and FOX and New York Times is not one sided pure propaganda? You don’t believe there is an issue with government and media controlled by zionists? Well continue living in the Matrix then.
I do not watch TV Mike so I have no idea what they are discussing.
My only comments are to say yes I’m much more in agreement with Bob M and others on this site than with you Al. Sorry Al as you keep telling me I’m a good guy, etc. so I would reciprocate the same, but in my opinion you are missing a major trick. Of course what the extreme Muslims are doing to their own as well as to Christians in Libya, Syria, Iraq is obscene beyond words. Hamas too operate unconscionably and if the IDF had anything about them they could use a wave of special ops to curtail their wickedness, while sparing the Palestinians. But the U.S. has become nothing short of a colony of Zionist Israel, crying crocodile tears for the people of Gaza even as they replenish Israeli stockpiles of weapons. Of course there are some wonderful and God-fearing Jews in Israel itself. Again visit any site and you can see how they’ve been punished (tortured) for their pro-Palestinian stance. However many of the Zio-Christians are simply duped by 65 years of brainwashing. Or else why did they countenance the eviction of 700,000 Palestinians in 1949 from 500 towns and villages without demur? Rather, many of them moved into the very properties that had been stolen from their one time neighbours. Any blog will tell you what are the aspirations of true Judaism compared to those of the psychopathic Zionists?
Written in haste as I’m out for the rest of the day.
As for the Birdman making his allegations, he’s a mere afterthought despite being someone who in my opinion is nothing short of a dangerous slanderer.
Bob M,
Thank you for sharing your own opinion on the forum here,
It takes balls to post it as it opens you up to both agreement & ridicule depending on other people’s beliefs.
So much of today’s media tip toe around sensitive topics & sit on the fence…which is neither reporting facts, investigative journalism or opinion pieces.
Thanks for sharing yours.
Cheers
Those who want to claim Hamas began this carnage should do a little more research before they start touting the Mossad line. Israel is the aggressor, not the victim.
Tikun Olam-תקון עולם: Make the World a Better Place (He’s Jewish)
I’ve consistently reported here that the kidnapping of three Israeli youth in the West Bank, which began the death spiral leading to the current tragedy, was not planned, authorized or carried out by Hamas. “Hamas did it” is the uber-narrative exploited by Netanyahu when he sent 10,000 IDF troops into the West Bank purportedly to search for the victims and the perpetrators (whom Israel still has not found). Israelis conducted a massive pogrom with seven Palestinians shot dead, 500 arrested (most of whom had nothing to do with the kidnapping) and the wholesale ransacking of thousands of homes.
It was this massive act of collective punishment which spurred Hamas to begin firing rockets at Israel. This in turn offered Netanyahu his opportunity for turning Gaza into a punching bag, as he does every year or so, pursuing an updated version of the dictum of Michael Ledeen:
Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business…
But Israeli and foreign journalists almost immediately began poking holes in the “Hamas did it” claim. I’ve reported and linked to many of them. More recently, Israeli police spokesperson Mickey Rosenfeld himself denied Hamas had any role in the crime.
I’d like to know WHERE is the outrage from the U.N. in this matter. Israel has blown apart more than 1 United Nations building in all this killing more innocents. Again mostly kids… http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/israel-and-hamas-begin-unconditional-72hour-humanitarian-ceasefire-as-us-condemns-attack-on-school-9641252.html
+1 Jay
Cannot be better written Bob.
I’ve written a few days back a separate post about the sequence of events that lead to the current situation… and I’ve emailed it again to Al and Cory yesterday.
It’s funny how people face AMNESIA about the sending of thousands of troops to find these 3 teenagers, the arrest of a few hundreds of Palestinians (they were hundreds of complicits to the teenagers’ abduction !!!) including elected Hamas officials, and the killing of a few Palestinians in the process.
At that time it was: “Hamas is responsible. Hamas will pay. Hamas is responsible. Hamas will pay”. Say it in the media. Repeat. Say it again. Repeat. Until people get brainwashed and believe it.
Then a few weeks later, Mickey Rosenfeld indeed denies Hamas’ involvement (in command M. Rosenfeld for his honesty on the matter), which Hamas had said since the very beginning (“we are not responsible” was Hamas saying from the very beginning when the teenagers went missing).
Then, in retaliation for what the army did, rockets went flying.
Then the Israeli government sent some soldiers, but more importantly, decides to shell/bomb many sites, power plants, schools, mosqs, homes. Why? Because for this, you don’t need soldiers ! You just need a few tanks, a few missiles guided by radars, and you don’t need to send your combat troops in. It’s almost the equivalent of the drones: even if the drone gets taken down, no soldier dies. Also, use phosphorus amos: more deadly, more efficient. Even if they are not allowed by international conventions on civilian zones, don’t worry… no relevant country/power in the international community will truly bother us with that, except with a few statements intended for looking good in front of their respective citizens.
Then, as government elected officials and media propaganda relays, re-write and twist the history narrative by saying: “Hamas attacked us first with their missiles”. Use the word “missile” as it is more frightening than “rockets”. Even if Hamas doesn’t have missiles but “basic” rockets instead… use the word “missile”. Rockets are primary devices…but “missile” looks like more sophisticated and deadly so it will make the Palestinians appear more eeeeeevil.
With that history narrative re-written, sit down and watch. Most people in western country will support your government. “Israel has been attacked with missiles first ! It is its right to defend itself !” Mission accomplished – well done.
Rince, repeat until the next episode: bother the enemy, entice him to a point where he will start to use violence (does this remind anyone of what’s happening in Ukraine as a tactic – it does to me???). Then use a-symetrical response to continue his slow ethnic cleansing and the grabbing of his land. Rinse, repeat. See you at the next episode.
To finish on this long post:
A few weeks back, Hamas and the Palestinian Authority had agreed to work hand in hand – for the first time in years. That didn’t make the Netanyahu government very happy. Now, problem solved. Mission accomplished.
Plenty of people still saying “Hamas started it first !”. Well done: media trap worked, propaganda mission accomplished.
Meanwhile, year after year, thanks to such military operations ( http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-31/scorched-earth-how-israel-converted-40-gaza-wasteland-rubble) and increasing illegal settlements, Palestinian land gets grabbed slowly, slowly, slowly, and hardly anybody dares to say anything about it. “It’s complicated, you know. It’s complicated. It’s difficult to take sides” most of us will say.
When a mouse fights an elephant, to take no side is to side with the elephant.
Best to all,
LPG
+1 Bob on laying out the timeframe of events in the recent weeks.
+1 Andrew
I have found that most people will go to great lengths to defend their beliefs simply because they’ve held those beliefs for most of their lives. People aren’t motivated by finding the truth, they are motivated by whatever makes them comfortable, in this case, blindly defending a lifetime of propaganda that they’ve built an identity around.
One’s edumacation level doesn’t appear to help this condition one bit.
“Men are rarely aware of the real reasons which motivate their actions.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda
“Universal literacy was supposed to educate the common man to control his environment. Once he could read and write he would have a mind fit to rule. So ran the democratic doctrine. But instead of a mind, universal literacy has given him rubber stamps, rubber stamps inked with advertising slogans, with editorials, with published scientific data, with the trivialities of the tabloids and the platitudes of history, but quite innocent of original thought. Each man’s rubber stamps are the duplicates of millions of others, so that when those millions are exposed to the same stimuli, all receive identical imprints. It may seem an exaggeration to say that the American public gets most of its ideas in this wholesale fashion. The mechanism by which ideas are disseminated on a large scale is propaganda, in the broad sense of an organized effort to spread a particular belief or doctrine.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda
“The average citizen is the world’s most efficient censor. His own mind is the greatest barrier between him and the facts. His own “logic-proof compartments,” his own absolutism are the obstacles which prevent him from seeing in terms of experience and thought rather than in terms of group reaction. ”
—Edward L. Bernays, Crystallizing Public Opinion.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.”– William Casey, CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Note to Bob M – I understand that Hamas have behaved brutally towards Christians. But maybe this is heresay. Anyone choose to enlighten me…..EXCEPT THE VULTURE!!
NO TRUCE NO TRUCE MORE PROBLEM’S COMING ! NO WW 3 !
I support Big Al’s opinion of the situation.
Who started it?
Who knows…..
I remember terrorist acts commited by PLO an d Hamas followers decades ago.
Israeli school buses blown up by suicide bom,bers in the sixties and seventies.
My memories go back to about the time of the founding of Israeli and quite frankly I cannot remember when there was a time of true peace.
I am not a jew or a Christian, nor a muslim. From my observations followers of Islam choose not to live by the Golden Rule and for that I am anti-Islam intolerance.
Christians had lived in Nineva for 2000 years, until about a month ago. Now those churches that have not been destroyed are all Islamic mosgues.
There are Christians who live in occupied Palestinian territories, and they live in peace with their muslim fellows. No issue at all.
There are radical muslims who have 0 appetite for tolerance. Same goes within Christians, same goes within Jews. It’s got nothing to do with their religion. It’s an issue within people.
To replace this conflict in a religious perspective is something that is suggested by the powers that be to let this conflict continues. But I’ll repeat it again: the main issue is IMHO not religious. It is about land and displacement of population after their land is stolen.
I don’t get the point of fingerpointing Islam this, muslims that. It is not behaving with a cool head to behave as such. What it helps is to continue to stir religious animosity, which the powers that be are very happy about.
CFS, you remember
” terrorist acts commited by PLO an d Hamas followers decades ago.
Israeli school buses blown up by suicide bom,bers in the sixties and seventies.”
That’s good you remember. I do to.
Now I’ve got news for you CFS. We’re now in 2014 ! Things have improved !
If you wanna kill school kids in 2014, no need to send someone kill himself for the cause by blowing himself up in the process !
What you just need to do now is use a radar based in Israel and a missile, or use a tank or mortar stations based hundreds of meter away from the school target !
Just give an order, someones in the Israeli army presses a button, and ” Voila! You did it – well done !”
Dozens of school kids die, while nobody from your army dies in the process ! I told you: things have improved !
Good luck to you CFS.
Your “truly ignorant” LPG.
@LPG
“It’s got nothing to do with their religion. It’s an issue within people. “
Sorry to say, but it has everything to do with religion. There is no such thing as a moderate Koran. The idea that everyone can get along is a globalist idea. The so called moderate Christians, Muslims or Jews, are people who do not know anything about their faith. They are falling for the secular view of the world that says “you can practice your faith as long as you do not believe in it.” The truth is that the enforcement of Sharia law is an OBLIGATION for any true Muslim believer, and a Muslim is obliged by his religion not to rest until the entire world is converted to Islam. So good luck with that! You are the ignorant who lives in Disney land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6yGjALjYyg
LPG You’re highly informed and I thank you! CFS doesn’t come across as altogether genuine, much as he’s sincere according to his lights.
Maybe this is what you want for America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6yGjALjYyg
C,
As an aside on the issue raised by the video.
I don’t blame these people for praying in the streets: I blame the French gvt and the French authorities for not making the law being respected. Plain simple.
I don’t blame these worshippers for not respecting the law: I blame those who are in charge of making law respected for not fulfilling their duties, despite the fact they could have the law respected.
The best proof that this illegal actions were known is that there were cops on the side. If these cops did nothing, it’s because they had been instructed/ordered to do nothing. And how gives them the orders to do or not do ? The Interior ministry, i.e a political authority.
These events from the video occurred a few years ago it seems, and if I am not mistaken, when the authorities decided to say “no more”, these street practices pretty much stopped right away.
I’ve said to people around me in the past that a law only as good as the “punishment” that exist for infringing it, and I always take the example of speed limits as it is easy for everyone to understand.
Say the speed on highways is limited to say 70mph. This is the law: no more than 70mph on highways. Now, if there are no cops on the highway to monitor speed, or no speed cameras, who will respect this speed limit ? Pretty much nobody as almost everyone will have an “excuse” justifying they drove above 70mph.
Let’s bring consequences to infringement: let’s say that a driver gets fined $1 for driving above 70mph, irrespective of the speed. Well, likewise, many drivers will drive above 70mph as a $1 fine is not much for their wallet. The tradeoff is worth taking the risk.
Now raise this fine to say $50, and add to this fine points remove from a driving license (if the driving license has a point system): then suddenly drivers attitude change. Drivers start to take less chances as driving > 70mph has become more consequential.
In all of this, has the law change ? Nope. Only the consequence of the infringement has changed, and hence the people (driver’s) behavior has too.
Same with Wall Street: Wall Street attitude never changes because big money knows “it can get away with crime” – if you allow me the expression.
So again, I don’t blame these people worshipping on the streets. I blame authorities who let this happen while it is illegal. Which also begs the question: why did authorities in an European country let this happen? And I would suspect there were political reasons behind this “laissez faire”.
So when it comes to America: as long as this is prohibited and the law is enforced, this will not occur, IMHO. BUT if this is allowed by law and/or if authorities let this happen (for whatever the motive), then it will likely occur.
Best,
LPG
@LPG
“It’s got nothing to do with their religion. It’s an issue within people. “
Sorry to say, but it has everything to do with religion. There is no such thing as a moderate Koran. The idea that everyone can get along is a globalist idea (aka all religions are equal meme, a one world religion for the global village so to speak). The so called moderate Christians, Muslims or Jews, are people who do not know anything about their faith. They are falling for the secular/socialist view of the world that says “you can practice your faith as long as you do not believe in it.” The truth is that the enforcement of Sharia law is an OBLIGATION for any true Muslim believer, and a “good” Muslim is obliged by his religion not to rest until the entire world is converted to Islam. So good luck with that! You are the ignorant who lives in Disney land.
C,
Thanks for calling me an ignorant. With CFS, that makes the 2 of you. To have a growing list of supporters calling me “ignorant” is, honestly, an honour to me.
I’ll create a membership card for the “LPG is an ignorant Fan Club” (which I will also create), and you and CFS will, if you accept, be the godfathers (but please note CFS has priority over you because he called me ignorant twice and was the first one to do so —> I have to be fair with him…).
Re: Disneyland, I’ve never been there as this is not my taste from what I’ve seen on videos. But thanks for trying to “make me live there”, but I’ll pass.
Now, you are entitled to your views, and I respect them.
I would just like to highlight that if we were a few hundred years ago, the Christians (my ancestors), were not as “cool” as they are now. And they did to other groups of believers things that the Christians of 2014 would probably dislike/be horrified about.
So this begs the following questions, IMHO:
(1) in these hundreds of years, have the religious Books changed ? –> obviously no.
(2) have the people’s mindset and their interpretations of the Books changed? –> pretty much, IMHO.
So my conclusion is that people’s behaviour have to do with how people are inside themselves, not with which religion they follow, to whatever the degree.
It’s difficult to conceive that everyone can get along, I admit. But it’s especially difficult when one finger points a religious group or an ethnicity, and when doesn’t try to understand each other’s perspective. Again, it’s about the people’s mindset inside themselves, nothing to do with what religious group they are part of.
You see, to take an example to illustrate, it’s like when you call me “the ignorant who lives in Disneyland”. I could take it badly and be offended and call you back I don’t know what etc… in and that could be viewed by other readers as a legitimate reaction (aggression -> reaction).
But instead of that type of reaction, honestly, when I read these words from you, I smiled. Truly, I smiled.
I smiled because except the few things that I wrote on a few posts here and there, and except the fact that I said that I’m a white Christian-born European, you know absolutely nothing about me.
But despite knowing hardly anything about me, YOU are the one calling me “THE ignorant”. Honestly, as I write these words, I still smile about this. You are funny character C, seriously!
So this illustrates my point: everything is about mindset and how one is inside as a human being. Quite simple.
Now, to move to the conflict topic, again:
(1) To me, a small group within the Jewish community has expropriated Palestinians of their land and is this is not right, in my view. You have the right to disagree, but this is my opinion.
(2) Palestinian people live under the occupation of the Israeli army and illegal settlers. To me, this is not right. You have the right to disagree, but this is my opinion.
(3) Everyone on this Earth has the right to be free and to enjoy his freedom. Palestinians are no exception. If this is not the case for them, this is not right. You have the right to disagree, but this is my opinion.
(4) People who fight for their freedom, have my full support. Whatever the colour of their skin, their religion, or their ethnicity. YYou have the right to disagree, but this is my opinion.
With all of these points (1) to (4), I didn’t have to refer to religion or religious principles any single time. Not any single one. So again, this conflict is to me, not about religion. Again, you can disagree with me.
So if you want to bring this conflict to one being a religious one, you’ll have to allow me to kindly disagree.
Maybe you had a bad experience with Muslims etc… or if you have issues with Islam. I don’t know. Either way, I feel sorry for you. I truly do. So what I suggest is that maybe you can join “cheche” for his bbq with some muslims and a good discussion will likely clear the atmosphere?
Good luck to you C.
LPG
You are right, scriptures have not changed. Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.” (John 14 : 6) and So now my question is, do you truly believe that statement from your Savior? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was crucified and on the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures? And finally, have you ever considered to sacrifice your life for Christ? Such considerations cannot be part of your discourse because obviously you do not believe in Christ at all. And you dare to call yourself a Christian? Unfortunately, more Muslims believe in Sharia Law than Christians believe in Christ and you are proof of that.
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel’s destruction.
Instead of trying to curb Gaza’s Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas.
That’s from the WSJ.
Yes, but what is your point. We can all read old articles with a thousand different quotes that represent personal opinions till the cows come home but they still do not amount to facts.
Birdman decided to remain blind and no amount of quotes, videos, evidence will change his mind. 10 years ago I would have said the same things as you….but I awoke. You have decided to pick your side and ignore the overwhelming evidence againts what you support. Basic human nature and sign of feeble mind.
Birdman vividly recollects how the PLO used to attach coins and pieces of paper money to the tops of land mines in an attempt to kill Israeli schoolchildren who might attempt to pick them up. He also recalls how panicked Israeli citizens were each time someone forgot something as innocent as a briefcase or backpack at a bus stop or restaurant and how they were subsequently blown up by the IDF without making any attempt to discern what was inside because bag attacks had become so vicious and common. You try to live like that for awhile smart guy. Unlike you I have endured those rocket attacks and seen this with my own eyes so don’t even try to suggest I don’t know what I am talking about.
Oh yeah because you lived there I don’t have the right to have an opinion. Listen to what you are saying….so by your logic it is not a terrorist attack if it is a bomb that targets innocents. Same logic you find on FOX news. Don’t give me that crap that you lived there when you should already know who are the invaders and the ones who are causing Genocice. Tell me, what would citizens of ANY country do if submited to a terror regime like that, they would try to defend themselves by ANY MEANs necessary….so no I won’t cry a tear for you even if you tell me that you lived there
You are correct Mike. I think that opinions like yours are not valid and have no place in a discussion that is obviously being conducted without facts most of the time.
And your “facts” are where? Anectdotal stories from you who “lived” there in 1980?
Birdman,
As it seems that living in Israel makes you able to comment on the current topic with authority, I have a suggestion – if I may.
Why don’t you try to go and live in Gaza? You’ll see how it feels, and then you’ll be able to come back to us and comment on the topic with enhanced authority, again. Be aware that if you take up that offer, you might find that living in Israel a few years ago was in fact much much much better (irrespective of the moral trauma that you endured years ago while living there).
You see, I have a serious issue with the way the Israeli government is behaving. I haven’t lived in Israel – sorry, and “apologies” for having an opinion on the matter irrespectively.
I also have a serious issue with the number of Jews that were killed during WW2 just because they were Jews. I am also sorry to say was I wasn’t born at that time of WW2 and hence I didn’t experience anything of this. Here again, “sorry” for having an opinion irrespectively.
Finally, I have to declare I also have opinions on many things/topics/matters despite not having experienced things first hand by myself. I am sorry for this too.
I think my biggest weakness is that I have a brain and try to use it. Sorry for this.
About 20 years ago, in my youth, I was a staunch defender of Israel. Then, I tried to read a bit more on this lasting conflict. And I changed my mind. Sorry for I used my brain on that matter.
Best,
LPG
I have lived both inside Gaza and on its border. I have lived in the West Bank, in Jerusalem, in Haifa and the edge of the Golan. Thanks for the offer to try living there.
Told you LPG the vulture’s got an answer for everything! I’ve been on a kibbutz, visited Gaza with my wife….But it means zilch in the current context! The bird wouldn’t last five minutes in current Gaza!
My answer is a fact. Yours is a supposition and personal attack without merit.
C,
You are trying to judge me and my beliefs. This is your right, but I truly feel sorry for you. Especially due to the fact that you hardly know me. But I forgive you. Truly.
Now, I will quote you and will take things step by step on this post:
“(1) obviously you do not believe in Christ at all. (2) And you dare to call yourself a Christian? (3) Unfortunately, more Muslims believe in Sharia Law than Christians believe in Christ and you are proof of that.”
So let’s address (1) first:
“obviously you do not believe in Christ at all.”
Who are you to make this judgment? I mean, it is your own right. But who are you to make such a judgment? What do you know about my beliefs ???
Once again, I feel sorry for you for making such statements. Truly. May your soul find some light – truly.
Let’s look at (2):
“And you dare to call yourself a Christian?”
Here C., you have to pay A LITTLE MORE ATTENTION TO WHAT I WRITE.
I never simply wrote or declared that I am a Christian. I wrote that I am a “Christian-born European”. Which means, if you know how to understand this properly (I think you didn’t pay attention in the first place OR you didn’t understand this properly) that by birth, I am European, and by birth, I am also a Christian. By birth. By the same token, I also have a white skin. By birth. And by birth, I am also a man.
I didn’t chose to be a man. I didn’t chose to have a white skin. I didn’t chose to be European. I didn’t chose to be a Christian. This is all by birth. And what I wrote is that I am “a white Christian-born European”. This is what I am by birth.
Nowhere in any of my posts can you read me talking about my religious beliefs. N-O-W-H-E-R-E. Based on this fact, I think it is non-sensical from you to tell me “And you dare to call yourself a Christian?” It is your right to say so, and it is my right to think it is non-sensical.
So PLEASE KINDLY PAY MORE ATTENTION TO WHAT I WRITE, TO WHAT YOU READ, AND TO THE CONCLUSIONS YOU DRAW – if your intellect permits.
Let’s go to (3):
“Unfortunately, more Muslims believe in Sharia Law than Christians believe in Christ and you are proof of that.”
Frankly, you almost lost me here. But I’ll try to keep it simple and ask: what is your basis for making such a broad statement?
I mean, don’t get me wrong: again, it is your full right to make statements.
But just for the sake of making yourself credible on this website, what kind of material do you have to back your statement?
Do you have statistics on the matter that you can share (truly, I’d be delighted to have a look at them)? Statistics that would faithfully represent the muslim and christian communities (in order to be statistically significant)? And can I please ask for these statistics, if you have any, to be very recent in order to correspond to the current views of both muslims and christians across the world?
I am not interested in statistics from 5 yrs ago or 10 yrs ago or I don’t know from when. Just very very recent ones. Because you C., make this statement in 2014.
So just to really look credible on this website, would you mind providing those statistics please? This would, IMHO, give an immense weight to your argument? And also, I would be delighted to read their results – because I would learn something.
You see, you can also come up with statements such as “donkeys have invisible wings and can fly faster than Boeing 777”. It would be your own right to make such a statement. But what would be of added-value for the sake of a quality conversation in that case would be that you bring some data to back up this statement on donkeys so that everyone can think for themselves and potentially learn something. I hope you get my point ?
Good luck to you C.
I’ll repeat myself but, please kindly pay more attention to what I write, and also don’t forget the statistics about your statement – I love learning things.
LPG
PS:
I don’t believe “donkeys have invisible wings and can fly faster than Boeing 777”. I just used this as an example for you, okay ? I don’t wanna be misunderstood again.
“Gator, how many attacks did Hamas make on Israel through the tunnels before Israel began the latest genocide? Answer-ZERO.” — Bob Moriarty
—————-
Nonsense Bob. The tunnels are the avenue by which rockets and weaponry are being smuggled into Gaza. Those can be considered attacks in every instance as without the arms there would not be a war today.
Rocket Attacks on Israel since 2001 (by year of incident)
http://www.idfblog.com/facts-figures/rocket-attacks-toward-israel/
Birdman:
How on earth did Hamas smuggle rockets and weaponry from Israel into Gaza and why would they do that? The big intelligence failure this war is the fact that Hamas dug tunnels under Israel and Israel either didn’t know or didn’t do anything about it but the fact is Hamas didn’t use them except for self defense.
Hamas made ZERO attacks into Israel before Israel attacked Gaza this time. None, nada, ZERO, ZILCH. They could have committed terror attacks against civilians and they chose not to.
How about showing us a chart of the bombs, rockets, missiles, bullets, CBUs fired into Gaza during that same time from Israel? Were the people sitting on the hill overlooking Gaza cheering the murder of innocents, were they terrorized or just enjoying a nice evening at the massacre?
Israel needs to stop whining about being a victim when any reasonable person given both sides would conclude that Israel is the terrorist state. Indeed after the 2008/2009 genocide by Israel against Gaza, a Zionist Judge concluded Israel committed 34 different war crimes. How many of those 34 do you disagree with or did you even bother to read something that conflicts with your fantasies?
Bob I think he chooses to be willifully ignorant, is simply ignorant or is part of their agenda. I mean, either he takes his sources from mainstream media or has an hidden agenda of his own. Who would still believe that propaganda in this day and age?
Mike,
In some discussions, some people will not change their views, even if they are wrong. There’s no point trying to convince for it is a waste of time. That’s unfortunate because we have been given a brain to think… but it is what it is. Someone in my family is like this and I never argue against what she says, even about the lightest-hearted topic, for it is a pure waste of time.
On the current conflict topic, as I’ve written, I used to be a staunch supporter of Israel’s policies about 20 years ago. I changed my mind after ample readings. Maybe I will change my views again but my views are currently what they are.
And based on my grid of values/analysis that people have the right to be free and stealing is wrong, then I see the current Israeli gvt’s actions as morally reprehensible, and I see the Palestinians as having their absolute right to fight for their freedom.
Now, I am not trying to convince anyone of my views. I am just trying to lay facts – for the sake of intellectual honesty – and then lay my down my views and explain why I see/view things in a certain way. Then, it’s up for readers to think for themselves and agree or disagree with my views.
Some people clearly have an agenda, some people clearly don’t want to acknowledge what is happening in 2014. It is what it is.
I personally believe in the fact that most people are GOOD people deep inside and that when facts are presented honestly (i.e without trying to hide anything unpleasant) and opinions expressed are explained (i.e why do I say this? why is this my grid of analysis?) then typically, human common sense ultimately prevails. Not always, but typically. And taking the effort to explain views, explaining one’s values and how one’s these values connect to opinions help a lot in building constructive discussions.
Again, there are always a tiny minority of people that can never be convinced on any topic, even if the facts are in front of them. For them, I truly feel sorry and wish them good luck as their souls are in darkness. For the rest of us, there is hope, and exchanging views is a great way to increase understanding between people, ethnicities, and religions.
I have to command both Al and Cory for letting us express ourselves on the conflict topic: they both have my highest praise.
Best to you Mike.
LPG
You are a gentlemen LPG. Fantastic post. I too would have been a supporter of Isreael considering we had not other sources of information before. What I find funny is that Birdman actually mocks the fact that people get their news from others sources…as if its a bad thing. That should be a serious warning sign right there. If you go at the bottom I posted how Isreal uses tactics of deception on their supposed allies the USA. And nothing of this is ever reported here….gee I wonder why!!
The source of the news is half the problem. How it is interpreted is the other half.
I did not say there was smuggling from Israel to Gaza. That territory is also connected to Egypt. As you should know though there are helpful Bedouin busy in transporting weaponry, drugs and other illicit cargo both within Israel and between all the neighboring countries. That is their stock and trade in many cases so you ought to brush up on your knowledge of the area. Meanwhile…..NOBODY uses tunnels for self defense. Silliest thing you have written today. You saw the data on attacks that were prior to this war going all the way back to 2001 but still continue to make ridiculous statements like there were zero attacks. Nobody minds when someone takes an opposing position on an emotional topic, Bob, but lets not start telling lies to make the case better.
Hamas uses the tunnels from Gaza to Israel for self defense and so far it looks as if they are kicking your butts. Good on them. I support anyone who defends their countryl
+1 Bob.
I support anyone who defends their country too and fight for their freedom.
Keeping it simple.
LPG
Too many suckers fight for their government at the expense of their country. Your government is not your country.
+ 2 Bob. the fishermen can’t eve catch basic food stocks given the blockade.
Let me help you out a little Bob since you have not bothered to learn anything about the tunnels in question. Read the details for yourself. While you are at it you might want to apprise yourself of a map of the area since you don’t appear to know that Gaza is connected to Northern Egypt (eg, it is not just bordering Israel).
Gaza Strip Smuggling Tunnels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels
Bob,
Thanks for bringing the truth into this discussion. The Israelis stole Palestine from the Palestinians, and have turned it into the State of Rothschild.
Birdman,
IMHO, Palestinian people have a RIGHT to resist the occupation of their land.
Would they be able to enjoy their land without any occupier – be they the Israeli army or illegal civilian settlements – there probably wouldn’t be any problem left to discuss or querel about.
One thing that surprises me is that as a human being, you seem to dismiss people here relaying blogs and opinions as they don’t amount to fact. But you don’t seem to have much issue with the facts that every time there is a large Israeli operation, more than a thousand civilians die each time.
To quote you:
” The fact is that since the end of the Second World War the number of civilian casualties in the 30 major wars during that time has typically been as high as 90% of all those killed and injured. Longer term studies show that civilian casualties have been on average lower though running at a rate of 50% or above.
So there is something to be said about modern war making that it inflicts such a high percentage of deaths on non-combat populations. In the case of Israel they have a better record than most and are known to investigate all cases where civilians deaths are reported to determine what went wrong. ”
I gotta tell you something Birdman: these are a bunch of civilian deaths to investigate over the years…. Let’s say….thousands of them in the past 10 years….? Would you be ok with that figure ?
Now, I wonder how many soldier and “order givers” have been prosecuted on the back of those investigations ??? Do you know ? It would be an interesting fact/stat to get as well, right ?
Also, talking about bookkeeping, I am wondering the following:
Does the IDF also keep a record of these civilian death on their website, so we could check numbers ? It would also be interesting, don’t you think?
I ask a simple question: how can Palestinians get their land back without fighting for it?
What amazes me is that American are so proud of their roots for they fought the “English oppressor” for their independence. And they rightly cherish their freedom.
But when it comes to Palestinian fighting for their own freedom, all of a sudden, these Palestinian become labelled “terrorists” and don’t seem to have the right to arm themselves.
Interesting mindset.
Best,
LPG
I have never said Palestinians were terrorists. You have a reading comprehension problem. The issue is clearly Hamas and its leadership.
Birdman,
I never wrote that YOU said Palestinians were terrorists.
Who has “reading comprehension problems” ??????
Best,
LPG
Don’t get drawn in LPG. The man’s unhinged! Has even had to draw on a Wikileaks piece to make his point….things are getting desperate for him!
Most in the priesthood I have known were learned men who could form an argument on a topic that was important to them. It is fascinating to me that you have been unable to address even a single point I made except by offering personal insults.
Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. Whine all you want, they are the only democracy in the region. When Gaza (occupied land) and West Bank (occupied land) get to vote, perhaps Israel can become a democracy.
They have elections there Bob? Does that tell you nothing?
Well said LPG….Zionist propaganda in USA is extremely effective. People still think we have fair and balanced news lol
Bob Moriaty two thumbs up for accurately stating the history. Here is a very short video of the History of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. http://youtu.be/h9Q_8ZrYku4
And this lovely piece by Russell Brandt who accurately punctures the propaganda and bullsh#$ in the mainstream media.
Russell punctures a lot of other propaganda and bullshit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_m98GAdqKM&feature=youtu.be Most important Brand accurately points out that a terrorist (a term of propaganda) is an individual who simply doesn’t have sophisticated weapons.
Yours Truly,
An American Jew. Israel is not my homeland. Doesn’t belong to me and I don’t take things that don’t belong to me. My people and brothers are those who seek truth and peaceful resolve despite race or ethnicity.
The amount of anti antisemitism on this forum is quite interesting. If you believe the majority of these anti Israel remarks are not from Arabs than I have a bridge to sell you.
In my opinion Bob Moriarty on the hand is a card carrying ant Semite and his parents probably brought him up that way.
Here we go again, always playing the same card. I attack the zionists, not the jews. A lot of jews are against it too. Will you call them anti semite? So tired of always hearing the same pathetic excuses of “Israel has a right to defend itself” and the “anti semite” comments. The same drivel over and over.
Who is an anti-Semite? I was born Jewish. I was bar-mitzvah. Mom, dad, entire family, friends, co-workers are Jewish. Religion, culture, and politics are vastly separate issue. I respect all religions equally, and all people’s freedom to choose their religion. I respect people’s love of their culture and their heritage. I simply do not believe that the UN should have by force given the land away. That’s not anti-Semitism. That’s propaganda. I hold no hatred toward people because of their race, ethnicity, or religion. I do hold politicians and people in power in contempt for encroaching on the land and property of another people. There is no divine right to any piece of land. That is religious ego centrism. The earth was here before you, will be here after you.
Well said Mark, I hope one day people realise its not the plumbers and bakers that want trouble with people of other nations or religions, its the psychopathic leadership.
Liberty, seems our challenge is how to deal with the psychopaths.
+1 Mark.
Beautiful post.
I highly praise your words as I believe people like yourself will be key to end this conflict.
Best to you,
LPG
+ 2 Mark – thank you SO much!
When you capitalize the word “so” it comes across as quite gay! 🙂
When the vulture gets mad he plays his gay card.
Bird.. you can repeat subjective nonsense all you want and claim it to be objective truth.. but it’s getting rather boring..and turning to slander when that fails just wastes everyone’s time
Well said Mark!!! Respect!!!
Finest Wine in Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUGVPBO9_cA
Very interesting interview Bob, despite being 5 old.
Highly recommend anyone to watch it for it is 2mn long – interview of a former Israeli Minister.
Best,
LPG
It is why I will not visit his site, Cheche. The links I once saw there were disheartening to say the least. Racist is a mild word.
Hey Birdman did you watch the 2 minute link Bob just provided? Is that jewish woman anti-semitic too? The same tactic used over and over…and she admits its their go to card.
Thanks but I will not watch or read anything Bob posts or links.
Birdman,
It is sad you don’t want to watch this Youtube link. But this is your right, and personally I respect it.
The video is a short 2mn interview from a former Israeli Minister called Shulamit Aloni.
You might despise Bob (I didn’t write you do despise him, I wrote you MIGHT, ok?), but at the end, this video has nothing to do with Bob (the only link is that he posted it: biggggg deal !).
If one day Bob is next to you, will you stop breathing because Bob has been breathing the same air ? You get my point…
Personally, believe it or not, but I prefer to discuss with people with whom I disagree, not with people with whom I agree. I said that again to relatives as early as last week.
The reason is because with people with whom I agree, it’s like “we agree. Ok now what ?”. But with people with whom I disagree, on whatever the topic, I always get to hear another perspective, another angle. And this makes me question my own thought process. It doesn’t mean that new arguments will change my point of view. But at least, it will question it.
And this, to me, is invaluable if I want to “progress” as a human being.
Similarly, as an individual investor, when it comes to precious metals, i have the same behavior: I listen on a daily basis to the podcasts on this website, but I also listen to people who think we are 100% wrong and that, basically, investing in the broad stock market is the only way to go for the next few years.
I do this to keep my investing thought process in check. I doesn’t mean I have to change my views, on the metals, but at least, this process keeps challenging my views, and to me, this is what matters as I believe this makes me a better investor overtime.
Lastly, about 25 years ago, when I started practicing sports in a club in my village, the most progresses I made was after I played against opponents much stronger than me, not from those much weaker than me. Because I could learn from those much better than me. Beating those weaker than me had a good feeling on the spot, but in terms of VALUE, there was nothing. I will stop here with these examples, as I am sure you get my point.
So again, you don’t want to watch videos whose links are posted by people you might despise: I respect that.
BUT you might be missing something, something that MIGHT make you think differently and question yourself, question your viewpoint. But maybe you don’t want that, and again, that’s your own full right.
All I can say is good luck to you Birdman.
LPG
Following on from there LPG Kahllil Gibran put is as follows: ‘I have no enemies but if I am to have an enemy let his strength be equal to mine that truth alone may be the victor’. Best, A
Cheche,
Just to speak about myself here…
I personally have nothing against Israel but have big issues re: the current Israeli government’s actions.
As for my origins, I am a white, Christian-born, Western European.
Nothing really arab in my blood as far as I know (family tree on my mother side goes back 300 years, and more than 200 years on my dad’s side… –> again, nothing arab there on either side). I hope this is enough family history to qualify me as a “non-Arab”.
I feel truly sorry for what happened to the Jews during WW2. Likewise, I feel sorry for the fate of Palestinians these days. It’s as simple as that. For feeling sorry in both cases, I don’t consider my views as antisemite.
My personal grid of analysis of the world is not religion nor ethnicities but much more based on principles such as Freedom, I have to admit.
So to me, if a group of people, altogether, feel that they ought to be free or be a separate country/nation, I typically have nothing against it and find it “normal” because it matches my grid of analysis/my values.
Also, one of my grid of analysis in life is that stealing is bad (i.e not right and morally condemnable). I know some will argue that considering that “stealing is wrong” is in fact a religious principle in essence, but I will leave this consideration aside.
So when I look at a situation like occupied Palestine where people are not free, they are not “allowed” by the big powers of the world to have their country recognized and when I assess their land was stolen from them, then my grid of values tell me: this is wrong.
I don’t need to bring religion, or antisemitism in all of this thought process.
My 2 starting points are (1) the right of people to determine their future, and (2) stealing is wrong.
That’s it.
I cannot speak for other, but this is about myself.
Best,
LPG
Well said LPG. Doubtful your message will get across
I am so tired of hearing the same anti Semitic rhetoric from people (mostly Arabs) such as yourself as well.
I believe Bob Moriarty is has close to a neo Nazi as one can ever get.
Cheche,
I for one am not anti-Semitic. Actually I admire Jewish success and their hardworking. I am Chinese and grew up in Mainland China. The only two interactions China ever had with Jews were accepting Jewish settlers from the west a thousand years ago and China protected 50K Jewish refugees in WWII. In China Jewish is viewed as most successful ethnic group and well respected. All my interactions with Jews are after I came to North America. I met people I like and people I don’t like. But I do feel that Jews have higher goals in their lives. It is very great since I have one too.
My problem with Palestine problem is my resentment toward US and UK policy. Israel is a pawn to carry out this policy. When you identify the root of the problem, other problems are trivial. Israel is doing things in its best interest and Hamas is doing things they feel justified. When doing these both sides committed crimes in normal time. But by no means this is a normal time.
The bottom line is that Arabs have the moral right of using whatever they can to expel the invaders and Israel as an invader has a moral low ground. If you isolate one period in this conflict, you can never tell who is wrong and who is right. You have to look at the whole picture.
I do have one warning to Israel though. If they get carried away and commit more anti-human activities by systematically killing off Arabs and there comes a time that every country in the world resent Jewish. Then Jews as a group will suffer dearly.
Well said Lawrence.
And I think that the powers that be WANT this anti Jewish resentment because it help the continuation of the conflict and help the Israeli government to continue doing what it does with pretty much impunity.
This is why, it is of UTMOST importance to not fall in the trap of putting in the same bag Jews and what the current Israeli government does.
There are Jews, inside and outside of Israel opposed to the Israeli government’s actions. Let’s ALWAYS keep it in mind and do not put everyone in the same bag.
IMHO, this is NOT a conflict about religion.
This is NEITHER a conflict about Jews having taken the land of Palestinians.
IMHO, this conflict is about a group within Jews that finds it justifiable to have taken land from Palestinians. This is what the conflict is about. And it’s VERY CRITICAL to remind ourselves about this. Otherwise, we will fall on the trap of becoming “anti-Jews”, “anti-Israel” etc…
There is a growing minority of Jews who disapprove what happened and what is happening to the Palestinians. These Jews are the light and need to be praised for their moral courage and intellectual honesty.
Best to all,
LPG
Absolutely, “this is NOT a conflict about religion.”
Absolutely Lawrence. In fact I may find myself spending the remainder of my days standing up for any Jews who get persecuted because of the iniquitous Zionists. I’m with our Archbishop Selby on this one who warns against a rising anti-Semitism that’s already surfacing here in the UK.
Are you the new leader?
You sad sad boy.
+1 Rev.
The only way the powers that be can rule is by stirring anger between ethnicities or religious group.
Some of us will not fall on this trap and will not let this occur.
Hopefully those who do not understand this will slowly come to realize this.
Sorry Cheche. Your world view comes out of raw emotion and anger. Anybody who speaks against the politics of Israel is an anti-Semite or neo-Nazi according to you. I don’t want you on my jury. Find some friends who are Arab and have a bbq together. Hopefully, you can settle whether the chicken should be kosher or Halal. Doubtful. When people don’t have love in their heart, their religion fails them. I don’t care what it is.
Cheche,
I’ll join Mark in his offer about the bbq and provide some “assistance”.
In my village (in Europe) that I’ve left about 17 yrs ago, I knew a few Arab muslims you used to go to the mosq. Good people. Truly – at least, based on my values. And could make a few phone calls and you guys could meet up?
For the bbq they will be a good company. And don’t worry about which food and which type of drinks: they eat pork, they drink alcohol and at the end, nobody will be beaten up nor die for disagreeing with their views. Trust me: as a white-skinned Christian-born European, I’ve done it before. 100% safe.
Best, and enjoy the drinks ! 🙂
LPG
I am from BELGIUM day will eat all Europe we need to stop diss ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wqHdR1tDD4
Can I join please? As it happens I enjoyed some excellent Hallal chicken today…or does that come from the other side! lol.
We have much very intelligent IDIOT’S ! TODAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr Moriarity,
Question have you ever accused anyone of being a “Jew loving coward?”
Nope. Got any other stupid questions?
just curious for I read read this article
“It happens that I had in the past extended email “conversations” with Mr. Bob Moriarty. A couple of years ago I challenged him for some very pointed and (I believe) unfair remarks concerning the United States and George Bush. The upshot of our several dozen emails was that he is..without a doubt ..the most virulent anti-Semite I’ve ever met. His attacks
against people he disagrees with shoot out of him like nuclear powered garbage….He even accused me and my relatives!! of being Jew loving cowards. I informed him that my father and uncles were combat soldiers that engaged in 5 sea borne invasions including Italy..Sicily..Iwo Jima..and Guadalcanal!! He then became very angry and said he was going to kick my butt..at which point I gave him a place to meet me in California so we find out just how tough a blow hard ex-Marine he really was. He never came…very fortunate for him. Mr. Moriarty is one of the most disgusting racists I’ve ever met. Mr. Kunstler has nothing to apologize for…”
“I work in the Mining Industry — I know of his [Bob Moriarty’s] websites. This is not new. Mr. Moriarity has for years provided links to anti-semitic, anti-Israel commentary. And, everytime there is flare up in Israel — he spews even more rubbish. I have sent his comments to many people and company’s in the Mining World, to boycott his site — as many mining company’s advertising on his site probably are unaware they are supporting a racist. Mr. Moriarity is entitled to his opinion on the Middle East, but when he inserts racists lies against Jews (IE. the Khazar lie) he loses any moral ground. In fact, a person I know — Jewish — and in the mining business informed him a couple years ago, that they will no longer advertise on his site due to his racist views. Mr. Moriarity responded by emailing a Jewish Contributor to his site, telling him his commentaries will no longer be on his 321sites. No reason given –Just a Jew fires me — I will fire Jew — mentality of Mr. Moriarity. Mr. Moriarity, like many in the anti-Israel/Peace movement has exposed his real reason for hating Israel –They Hate Jews.
What is the motto of the Mossad again? “By way of deception or something like that” If you post it, it just has to be true.
I wrote a piece in 2009 and said that Israel and the IDF were committing war crimes. Judge Goldstone was nice enough to agree and list 34 of them in his report to the UN. And this may be hard to believe but the Zionist Judge Goldstone was called a self-hating Jew. That must be another Zionist trick they always pull.
It’s not deception it’s perception and many times perception is reality.
.
Cheche your so far off base you have no idea. (Either that or your purposely slandering people just because they are against Israeli policy). What next , you going to yell me just because I refuse to “support the troops” – meaningless slogan only used for indirect policy support – that I’m unpatriotic? Or want harm to come to soldiers? Ridiculous .. Not one antisemitic comment on this page so far
Btw perception by definition is subjective and is in NO WAY the same thing as objective truth
“Qatar is a very strange place. They rely on the U.S. for protection and invest heavily in the U.S.,” said Jonathan Schanzer, vice president for research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), noting that the U.S. has its largest Mideast airbase—Al-Udeid Air Base—in Qatar.
“[But] at the same time, just miles away from [the airbase], you can find the head of Hamas (Khaled Mashal), and there was even a Taliban embassy there for a while too. All of these things make for a foreign-policy anomaly,” Schanzer told JNS.org.
To Israel supporters, check the Lavon affair and the USS Liberty attacks. Both have been proven to be Israeli work. The agents involved in the Lavon affair have been recognized as heroes. Attacks on US interestes by Isreal and blaming others to get USA beast to do their dirty work. You should learn history before coming here and calling everyone anti-semite. I am againts the zionists agenda and policies, I got NOTHING against jews themselves.
The weekend show should be interesting…..Ha!
By the way…I finally listened in to the show. That was well done Al. You too Cory. Sorry I did not take the time to hear your daily commentary before now but I got caught up with the remarks from others at the outset and then neglected to hear what you had to say.
Money talks franky!
Zionist are not semtic people . Ashkenazi are white people from Europe, mix with some hun.