New targets for the precious metals and the conventional markets
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Geez, bb, you still don’t see the crime in unbacked paper?
No Matt I don’t, there seems to be this lingering belief that gold somehow restricts paper printing, not sure why it persists.
I can only suggest checking out the advantages of Lincons greenback, and yes I know the challenge is to have an “honust” government to make it work.
Impossible some will argue but surely a system at least close to integrity could be developed.
Course I could be taking the loseing side for that one.
No, bb, the lingering belief (fact) is that gold itself can’t be created out of nothing -just like a loaf of bread or a mowed lawn! The “benefits” of the greenback exist ONLY for its issuer. If creating money out of nothing was sound/honest, everyone would be able to do it without consequences and even be better off for it. Why work for everything you have if you can just print it? I really don’t know what else to say if you can’t understand that counterfeiting is theft no matter who does it. Those who print are parasites who transfer the fruits of the work of others to themselves.
The majority of scary earthlings will never get it.
I find it funny to think gold prevents or restricts printing. That’s the point, it doesn’t.
Obviously I agree that overprinting is theft etc yadda yadda, but gold does not restrict printing in any way.
Simply check amounts printed on gold standards in times of war to confirm.
The federal reserve note comes with debt for every digit “printed”, check to see what actually happened to the American economy due to the use of greenbacks.
Good story I have always thought.
Obviously issues, slightly fewer than, what is it now? quadrilians of debt?
Lets remember that economics is always benefits balanced with consequences.
Or assets compared to liabilities?
Oh, and the action versus consequence doesn’t seem to matter which 1 of the 9? schools of thought is used, maybe Rickards is right and its time to drop them and move to complexity theory.
I wish I could find it funny rather than sad that you think it matters if gold restricts printing or not. That is not the point! Of course gold can’t prevent fraud —or murder or any other criminal act for that matter. It’s just ridiculous that you try to defend a criminal act at all. Counterfeiting equals theft —ANY printing of unbacked paper, NOT just some theoretical “overprinting.”
Bottom line: value should be exchanged for value. Would you defend a baker who keeps accepting your money but never gives you your bread? Would you be happy if he instead just gave you receipts that indicated he owed you nothing?
Matt, you just acknowledge that gold doesn’t restrict printing, so why use it?
Anything can be used as a currency.
The benefit of the greenback being for the issuer is the point, right now the benefit goes to a privately owned company, oh ya, its the banks that own it. lol
There is a choice as I stateted in all economic thinking, in this case the choice is, benefit to the people or benefit to Rothchild and his banking legacy.
The argument could continue to “war is good as it produces profit” etc there fore we should not only provide loans for them but encourage them as well.
But to my mind, that is psychopathic, which is exactly what we need to be rid of.
I agree we have to get rid of the fed for example, I just don’t think the answer is gold, we have been there done that, it didn’t work for most.
Whatever the “system” turns out to be, I think we will eventually find it.
You look foolish with that “lol” of yours. I have never stated that a gold standard (implemented by government) is better than simply a free market. Let the market choose. With that out of the way, a gold standard in which the paper emitted is redeemable for a set amount of gold is still far superior to pure fiat since the holder of said paper could decide for himself if he trusts the paper or wants the gold. In addition, under such a system even the sheeple would recognize overprinting as a crime instead of as QE or TARP or stimulus, etc.
You have a problem with companies profiting from their production? How Marxist (ignorant). Money is society’s servant; the companies that provide it should profit like any other company that provides a benefit. Who decides if the company provides a benefit? Market participants. What’s the evidence that the market is right? The company is profitable.
Re: “what actually happened to the American economy due to the use of greenbacks.”
What happened is what always happens when governments spend other people’s money —a short term boom, complete with the consequences. Action-reaction. There is no free lunch. And make no mistake, the value those greenbacks possessed belonged to someone else —just as government debt is value stolen from the future (stolen from future prosperity).
Have another foolish lol.
So, you figure the fed is entitled to their profit. ok
‘You have a problem with companies profiting from their production? How Marxist (ignorant).’
Well, I guess I am very ignorant, It has looked to me that since its creation the fed has worked to enslave the people, but, I guess your right, they are entitled to their profit. How ignorant of me.
People could chose to take paper or gold? Maybe ask Degaul about that?
I am afraid I will never agree with your reasoning, I understand your thinking, but I cant agree with it.
Too many “holes” to it in my opinion.
You are incredibly ignorant if you think I am defending the Fed in any way. You obviously do not have the capacity to understand my thinking; if you did, you would be ashamed of yours.
Lol ๐
Who said the first person to throw a punch was the first to run out of ideas?
I guess I gotta give this to ya, as your a genius. lol
Now all I need is to figure out how to use imodicons.
I suppose I have run out of ideas. How do you reason with a guy who defends coercion and theft or a guy who “lol”s at someone who promotes cooperation and choice?
Try this BB. If you want to make a happy face or winky face or whatever you just type a : or a ; followed by a ) or a ( as examples. You need to put them together like this “:)” or like this “;(” to make it work properly and they can’t be connected to the end period or last letter in your sentence. So they have to stand alone to work right. ๐ ๐ ;( ๐ Kind of like that.
“;)”
“(:)”
Maybe ya need the same thing for these pictures as you need for links, I have trouble with those too.
” (; ) “
“:)
Sorry bb. I should have said to NOT use the quotation marks. Those are only there to allow the text to print without actually making a happy face. Try the same thing but without quotation marks and it will work just fine.
๐
(;)
Yeah, well the Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond had the slogan “Independence in Europe” when I was at University in Aberdeen in 1988-89. That was before the ERM and the Euro fiascos but on the strength of that slogan the SNP was likely to be keen to join the Euro. t that time the Scits hated being under control fromThatcher and Westminster. However it would me moving from the frying pan into the fire to join the Euro empire. I am sure the Europeans would be licking their chops at getting control of Scotland’s fossil fuel reserves, since ther is a little difficulty with Russia these days.
obviously there would be some problems with Scotland keeping the GB Pound too – it is incompatible with (total) independence to misquotew mark Carney.
Ironic that Carney’s remark could be aimed at the Euro. However, there are in Europe, neighbours with a common language more or less and probably sother similarities such as Germany and Austria that are sharing a single currency without problems – the problems are with the peripheral nations.
Basically I would have though the Scots if they had sense would want their own central bank (or better still be central bank free!) and their own Scottish Pound (or ‘Poond’ perhaps), which would be more of a petrocurrency than the UK one.
๐ ๐ (: (;
I could b catching on, thx Bird.
Sure thing, bb. The happy faces cheer me up.
I’m Scottish. Scotland is NOT joining the Euro. The plan/aim/desire is to retain the pound, but that will be subject to negotiation. So far, the UK govt has refused this, but many think it is a negotiating tactic (to scare voters into voting no). It is my opinion that this stance will have to soften if there is a Yes vote as it is in NEITHER side’s interests economically for harball to be played in this way. The UK govt owns large stakes in two Scottish banks after the 2008 bail outs. If use of the pound was to be withheld, there could be issues for those two banks and wider systemic issues affecting the whole system (we remember how this spread in 2008, right?). If it’s a Yes, I would hope sense would prevail and the pound is retianed if only for an interim transition period. There are genuine issues with this policy, not least of which is whether it’s true independence when you hitch yourself to a currency of another country and its central bank. However, that said, I am old enough to remember when being in such a currency union (the pound) did not work for Scotland or much of the rest of the UK for that matter. This was when Mrs Thatcher shut down the inefficient nationalised industries which dominated northern England, Wales and Scotland while at the same time stoking a services and financial boom largely confined to the South East of England, including of course London. Interest rates were rammed up to cool that down but in so doing crippled the rest of the country. It’s not often talked about, but was essentially a precursor of the problems of the euro, namely make sure you have similar economies at the same stage in the economic cycle! Currency economics 101!
Silverbug Dave, just so you know, I wrote that post in response to the very first post right at the top. For some reason it is presented here! I hadn’t even seen your post. Re your petro currency point, this is potentially the end point. I live in Edinburgh and studied at Edinburgh University. My gues is the politics of it meant they could not sel a completely new currency to the Scottish people just yet. The Scots (sadly) are deeply conservative and that would be too much of a leap to tsake straight away. You need a softly softly approach. Gradualism is key. Of course, we will sell our resources to anyone. At the right price! We are not that daft!!!! ๐ I am hearing very interesting things about the campaign by the way. I may return. On Friday!
There are about 5 different Scottish printed Pound banknotes in circulation which are currently accepted throughout Scotland and in areas in England close to the border.This will drop to possibly only one. Currently 3 different banks are still printing notes, I believe.
Interestingly, I believe, Any notes in Scotland (even Bank of England, which are most common in use) are not legal tender technically.
“There are about 5 different Scottish printed Pound banknotes……..” — CFS
———–
When I read those first few words I was sure you were about to tell a Scottish joke.
Since I mentioned…you got any good Scottish jokes? Clean or otherwise. All the same to me!
When I was in Scotland in 1988-89 and withdrew a tenner from the ATM, there were Clydesdale ยฃ10 notes, Royal Bank of Scotland ยฃ10 notes and Bank of Scotland ยฃ10 notes. Al were fiat paper like the UK ones but were interesting as a variation.
I had fun when I triied to pay for some petrol in a gas station in Cranfield in south east England on a trip back to England, I had only a couple of Scottish tenners. Anyway, I think the attendant accepted them in the end.
Scotland, Scotland, oh how interesting that will be! I wonder if Scotland the Brave is actually brave?
Two significant polls have shown the Yes vote for independence in the lead and many others show them only just behind the No vote in % terms. The Yes campaign has had the momentum and its vote has increased significantly during the campaign I think.
However, how many Scots will actually have the balls to vote Yes in the actual referendum? Will lots of them chicken out at the last minute?
From here in England, I can see that a Yes vote would create an absolute nightmare for England. This is why half of th English Parliament talking heads and political hacks have been up in Scotland in the last week, trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
Actually, on the face of it, I think the Scots would ultimately be much better off out of the UK. They would have the majority of oil and gas reserves for a start. They should get their own currency and it would be a petrocurrency (though the oil and gas reserves are much depleted, they will still have a lot per capita if the majority belong to Scotland and most of the tax revenue accrues there).
However, the separation will be an absolute nightmare. Joining a union is easy, like putting a spoonful of sugar inyour tea. However, separation will be like like trying to take the sugar out of a cup of sweet tea. Imagine, these two countries are huge bureaucracies entangled by a web of government lies and corruption as are most Western countries, like never before and all the financial carry-on in top of that! It is a scenario for a lot of skeletons to come out of cupboards. How ewill the national debt be divided up? Will the Bank of Engldn still support Scottish banks some of which are actually bust, like many of their English counterparts? This will cause absolute mayhem, disentangling the web of deceit and debt and it may reveal the extent to which coutries are impossible to separate, as good example trial balloon for the ‘nations’ that might want to leave the Euro but can’t. (I would suggest that, even as of now, Scotland within the UK is probably more independent than Greece is within the Eurozone).
OK, I have one.
Bank manager says to customer “If Scotland votes for independence they will end up being a Third World Country”…..The customer responds “No idea if things could get that much better, but you never know”!
Dave, see my posts above. You raise a good point. Scotland is notoriously reticent. However, I am hearing a few things.
I’m aware that was a ‘joke’, but can’t help feeling an edge to it! If Scotland goes it alone it will have no one else but itself to blame for its fate. However, in charge of its still-large oil and gas reserves which have been squandered by the UK and which leave still significant parts of Scotland below the poverty line, you can perhaps understand why some Scots see the need to do it ourselves rather than sub contract our govt to another country that appears to be making a complete mess of it. Just a thought.
My apologies Boss. I was not really intent on upsetting the Scots (good to have you here by the way!) but rather to apply a little levity to a thread that was getting stressed out. You got any good Scottish humour for me?
It has been a few years since I was last in Scotland, so I could be out of date.
Current Scottish banks printing are: Clydesdale Bank, Bank of Scotland or the Royal Bank of Scotland. Only RBS was still recently printing one pound notes (As oppose to minting coins)
Scotland should say to hell with the EU and England and issue gold, silver and copper coin and ban all other forms of currency.
Why?
That seems a stupid emotional comment.
CFS, to me it sounds like a far-fetched but great idea. Though I wouldn’t ban the sorry fiat competition; I would let it compete and lose publicly for all to see.
Central control of the currency authoritarian and stupid.
Considering the amount of fluctuation in gold and silver prices it seems a moronic idea.
How on earth can you have long term contracts and trade with the kind of price fluctuations seen in gold and silver? Everything would have to be hedged with derivatives….?!
risk of invasion would present itself should even the suggestion of using PMs be mentioned, ask Gadafi, might be a few others around to ask as well.
But its all the same bank, no PMs will be considered, they may change the name or implement something the Scots like hearing about but their currency will most likely remain fiat and debt.
CFS, those entering long term contracts would benefit MOST from gold money. Price anything you want in dollars and in gold both forty years ago and today. You’ll find out out real quickly which “money” has the least fluctuation in value over time.
Short term fluctuations are very likely exaggerated by the fact that gold is not allowed to compete freely. The bassackwards coercive system does not allow the market to decide which it prefers. Just take a look at prices during the 1800s and you’ll notice that the prices of everyday goods and services were not fluctuating wildly in the short term.
Fiat currencies require government force and a dumbed-down population because their value is fictional.
The value of fiat is its acceptance for taxes,
Its purpose is to facilitate business.
Gold facilitates business just fine. The purpose of fiat is control and wealth transfer. The rest is propaganda.
It’s mind-boggling that so many people think sound money is moronic (and, apparently, that fraudulent money is sound and smart).
Mat, just an idea, try talking to someone from, I don’t know, the thirties or fortys.
Ask how much gold they had, sure, a 5 cent piece bought lots, thing was, nobody had a 5 cent piece. Using fiat provided currency for the masses.
There are 2 points to every point with economics, round and round it goes
Pure B.S. bb.
Mat, ur a funny guy.
Remember Steven, Scotland is a socialist bureaucracy like the rest of the UK and Europe. How are they going to disentangle the bureaucratic mess joined to the UK? it will be like trying to extract the sugar out of a cup of sweet coffee.
OK…I have another one….
A sweet older lady told her neighbor “I grew up in Glasgow in the 1970’s. If any of you want to know about life in Glasgow in the 1970’s you should go there now”!
Interesting though: having to use a passport crossing between England and Scotland!
I wonder how many Scots actually do not have passports, but regularly cross the border?
Imagine having to go through passport control and customs if travelling between states in the US?
One of my biggest complaints about travelling is the amount of time spent standing in line for an hour or more getting into the US.
Not if you’re coming up from Mexico CFS….?
Oil has finally broken out and the general market can resume the uptrend. I bought back into my rig position as well as added twitter on the sharp dips. Sold my apple position yesterday.
Geez, Scotland has an opportunity to implement their own “greenback”,
yet they consider joining the euro?
Sounds to me the bankers have things planned well.