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Round table market wrap with Doc, Rick and Gary

June 17, 2015

We set up a round table to discuss the markets movements today after the Fed meeting and Yellen’s press conference. While there was nothing new that came out of the Fed Chairwoman we do have some topics to chat about.

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Discussion
66 Comments
    Jun 17, 2015 17:47 PM

    RICK A………is spot on……….

    CFS
    Jun 17, 2015 17:12 PM

    There is a quadruple witching hour coming up this Friday, so I would expect gold to be significantly knocked down before the close on Friday.

    Jun 17, 2015 17:26 PM

    The most likely scenerio they will kick this Greece can down
    the road into next year.

    Lots of long shots here. O does not want anything really
    dramatic to happen until this time next year. He’s gearing
    up for martial law and will want to interrupt the elections.

    My forecast though has not changed. Next 12 months is
    going to be the worst in history.

    If Greece does default from what I understand there is a
    possibility and very likely S. America will be next, then
    Mexico and United States. Will take 2 weeks to hit the US
    and then the dominos are set off, banks go down etc.

    Very difficult to predict but its going to be cataclysmic
    in the time frame above in the next 12 months approx.

    World war/nuclear exch. could happen anytime.

    AGAIN, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!!!!!

      Jun 17, 2015 17:29 PM

      HEAVY,,,,A must read article over at ZEROHEDGE…
      Greek Dept Committee……OH Yeah …Bring it on .

        CFS
        Jun 17, 2015 17:36 PM

        full of BS from the Committee. Utter garbage.

          Jun 17, 2015 17:15 PM

          I totally and 100% disagree with you this time CFS. Greece got put in a classic debt pincer which amounts to enslavement. They are in about the same position as the guy who takes payday loans to buy groceries now but sinks closer to bankruptcy with each new loan as the interest compounds and most of the funds are used to service the prior loan.

        Jun 17, 2015 17:39 PM

        Debtor has declared creditors illegal. It is a funny world. Has the sovereign government been overthrown in Greece? WTF. This country should be invaded and occupied and people should be enslaved like it has been in most of the last 2000 years.

          Jun 17, 2015 17:03 PM

          Not that funny, Lawrence. Not when you consider that the debt was not generated on behalf of Greece at all as a mere 10% shifted to the country whereas 90% went to bail out banks and creditors at risk.

          That’s like you going in to the Royal Bank and taking a 500,000 dollar mortgage but the bank turning around and giving your ex-wife 450K while you carry the burden of the entire debt.

          Sounds fair right?

          Basically, they are saying the Greek people have been tricked and flim-flammed by higher authorities and they had no idea what was being done to them until it was too late. They are also suggesting that those in power before them were complicit in selling the country out to a debt Ponzi not of their making.

          Meanwhile, once the real squeeze came they were so pressured for free cash that they started to sell off state assets to the highest bidder. So the electric company and other utilities along with historical sites, airports, docks were hocked at a fraction of real worth just to make ends meet. That further bankrupted the economy and stripped off vital revenue sources.

          Sorry to say it Lawrence but they have a point. The Greeks have been screwed every which way to Wednesday and all the Troika is trying to do now is get cooperation through humiliation. They think they have it all in the bag and Greece is in checkmate.

          The ONLY option open to Greece is a default and an exit.

            Jun 17, 2015 17:25 PM

            The bankers and the IMF have been doing this to countries for years. If you read the “Monster from Jekyll Island” the author tells exactly how the banks operate in this way. They get you in debt and when you can’t pay they lend you more to put you really down and then they restructure your debt out even further and then they take all your assets. They rarely lose in the end but everyone else is stuck with the debt.

            Jun 17, 2015 17:18 PM
            Jun 17, 2015 17:28 PM

            Doc , if borrowers are so easy to get off the hook, who is going to lend and how economy survive without loans. If default is so good, why government does not allow students to default on their debt. If anybody deserve a break, it must be student. This world is totally wrong. Good is bad and bad is good.

      CFS
      Jun 17, 2015 17:35 PM

      HH, how can they kick the can past the end of June?

        Jun 17, 2015 17:41 PM

        CFS…Agreed . Im watching what happens over the weekend , They have a meeting with Putin on friday .BRUSSELS cant give in to the Greeks , if they do the rest of the PIGGS will want the same deal………….TILT….Game Over.

          Jun 17, 2015 17:53 PM

          Irish glad you showed up…………good to hear from you……….ootb

            Jun 17, 2015 17:08 PM

            Hi Jerry….Just thought i would pop in to let everyone know im still alive & still fighting the system…….Feck the Bastards.

        Jun 17, 2015 17:42 PM

        Like I said CFS….good question though

        It’s all a long shot.

        If Greece does default, then likely scenario above
        in my first commentaries.

        All I know we are faced with a cataclysmic event.

        Can’t predict the month but definitely within 12 mos.

          Jun 17, 2015 17:55 PM

          Who can say where the road goes? Well, even experts seem to agree… only time.
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01IEfyJuJV4

            Jun 17, 2015 17:04 PM

            Good tunes 🙂

            Jun 17, 2015 17:06 PM

            OMG are you kidding!!!! I cannot stand her. First time someone put her disk in my cars CD player I just opened it up and threw the thing right out the damn window. I was repulsed. Worst music EVER!

            Jun 17, 2015 17:24 PM

            You threw it out the window ???

            Probably need to quit drinkin !!!

            Do you slam ?? Its bad for ya dude

            Always rehab. man !!!

            Jun 17, 2015 17:41 PM

            That figures, Birdman.

            Jun 17, 2015 17:33 PM

            It’s Enya for gosh sakes. What did you expect me to do? I am getting pretty tired of soft rock anyway….its so past century..

            Jun 17, 2015 17:50 PM

            Enya isn’t rock at all. Maybe Slayer is more your speed? Seasons In The Abyss is appropriate right about now:
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvuO2EvCTAE

            Jun 18, 2015 18:21 AM

            Sing it…..She works hard for the money.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhePEs4IL8w

            This seems to be appropriate.

            You like this…Y or N

            If, N…do not say…you will hurt his feelings.

            Cool is the way…you know.

            Jun 18, 2015 18:03 AM

            TOO funny HH………….

            Jun 18, 2015 18:06 AM

            soft and calm……….E……..is great listen to………. 🙂 …. thanks Matthew.

      CFS
      Jun 17, 2015 17:53 PM

      There multiple protests in Greece today as people took to the streets in anti-austerity demonstrations.
      Interestingly, despite so-called cuts in pensions, the average Greek retires a decade earlier than the average Brit and receives greater pension benefits!

    Jun 17, 2015 17:46 PM

    You can count on…Major. .SHTF…PLAN…

    It’s guaranteed. Everyone is screwed.

      Jun 17, 2015 17:52 PM

      ditto

      CFS
      Jun 17, 2015 17:01 PM

      I beg to disagree.
      For the Greek people, being kicked out of the Euro, it will be disastrous.

      For the rest of Europe, it will be no big deal.

      There are only 11 million Greeks if I remember correctly. Despite the rest of the world having to write off $300billion or so, that will be done without sinking any other economy.

      Greeks, however, can get to imitate a Zimbabwean economy.

    Jun 17, 2015 17:48 PM

    Whats going to be intriguing is how the
    metals perform.

    I still have no reservations what direction yet.

      Jun 17, 2015 17:02 PM

      The metals should be exploding. They capped
      off the rally back in Dec. 2014.

      IMHO..all criminal. Ha…these are real bastards.

    CFS
    Jun 17, 2015 17:28 PM

    From my observations of the Greek economy. (I first visited Greece in 1981 and recently have been there almost every year….sometimes twice a year. I like the sun and swimming in warm water, and people-watching.)
    While the Greek population has been slowly increasing and aging, the total population actually peaked back in about 2007 or 2008 at about 18 million. Since then a lot of Turks, Bulgarians and Macedonians and other nationalities have left for richer areas of Europe.
    This might have masked to some extent the reduction in productive jobs over the last decade. Certainly those inhabitants with get-up-and-go got up and left, since freedom of movement within the EU became the norm.
    Since much of Greece is still “village life”, relatively unchanged, many will not have realized the hole Greece was digging for itself by increasing social welfare. There has always been significant tourism within Greece, which has helped the economy, but after the world economical malaise which started 2007-8,the hole that was been dug became too deep for escape.
    So much in the world economy is now perception and mirage, that it is hard to predict the reaction to Greek default, but after any transient reaction there should not be a significant reaction.

    LPG
    Jun 17, 2015 17:43 PM

    Not sure I understand some of the comments made here…

    Greece joined a European political structure which was then called EEC back in 1981(there was nothing such as the “EU” back then) … That’s almost 35 yrs ago…

    Best,

    LPG

      CFS
      Jun 17, 2015 17:24 PM

      Things went well while Greece received infrastructure money.
      It is only more recently that things have started to go downhill, and even then it is not immediately observable.
      I don’t think the average Greek realizes how out of control government spending is compared with income.

    LPG
    Jun 17, 2015 17:15 PM

    Martin Armstrong’s latest on gold in Europe: (re-posting)

    Is There a Shortage of Gold in Europe? Will It Be Confiscated?
    http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/date/2015/06

    GL to all investing/trading.

    LPG

      CFS
      Jun 17, 2015 17:52 PM

      Europe consists of 30 plus countries. While within the EU the Court of Justice just gave the ECB bank the power to buy bonds directly outside the formula previously defined, I do not believe Treaty gives the power of gold confiscation directly.

      Jun 17, 2015 17:56 PM

      So Armstrong is now trying to explain his false statement that in many European countries people can no longer buy retail gold coins for bullion which he stated in the article below. He is saying that some people have misread it. Nonsense.

      http://armstrongeconomics.com/archives/31089

      But articles like this expose him.

      http://www.goldcore.com/us/gold-blog/people-can-no-longer-buy-retail-gold-coins/

    Jun 17, 2015 17:04 PM

    The placard I am waving now say’s sit on the sidelines.

    CFS
    Jun 17, 2015 17:47 PM

    Greek bank deposits are currently dropping at a rate of about one billion a day and now stand the lowest in ten years, despite limitations on withdrawals at some banks.
    Not mentioned by commentators is the potential of a liquidity problem as mattresses are being stuffed.

    Jun 17, 2015 17:57 PM

    I believe the European lenders have been involved in all sorts of dubious financial practices of which we the public know nothing about but will come to light if Greece defaults. The secrecy is always what destroys a Ponzi scheme, and at the final moment the truth comes out about just how much wheeling and dealing we weren’t privy to. DT

      Jun 17, 2015 17:28 PM

      True, they’ve probably bought time over the last few years and have probably stuck some others with a % of the debts. Bankers rarely lose but this time may be different.

    Jun 17, 2015 17:31 PM

    Interesting comments from all.
    Greece has denied the debt as being real for a reason. The debt is not real. They bought mortgage backed securities thinking it was a good investment.
    Who they they bought from, who bought it, and what they bought is the question.

    They bought from the likes of Douetche bank, Goldman, and JP Morgan.
    The aholes that bought the vapor paper ” in the government meant to do it “.
    What they bought was CMOs ( collateralized mortgage obligations ) These CMOs were selling at .85 on the dollar. Example: if I bought a pool of CMO notes worth 1B I would pay eight hundred and fifty million for that pool of notes. Well….those notes right now are selling at .01, that’s right, one penny. So from 05 to 2015 the asset ( or derivative ) has dropped in value to net zero!
    There also was CDS ( credit default swaps ) insurance wraps that the banksters raped and pillaged ( robbing Peter to pay Paul ) and making broker fees on nothing. It is and was and will always be the ” vapor paper caper “.

    In essence Greece is completely 100% correct by saying the debt is not real! The mortgage backed paper that underpins the asset is not real. No bank loaned it’s money for the asset! Therefore the asset can’t be real and there cannot be a debt owed!

    It was a Ponzi scheme all the way!

      CFS
      Jun 18, 2015 18:36 AM

      I don’t understand what you are talking about charster. The Greeks sold bonds and spent the money they received to pay pensions and interest on debt.
      Now they claim their bonds illegal, because they were “forced” to do it.
      Utter rubbish. Classical spending more than income from taxes for years.

        Jun 18, 2015 18:41 AM

        CFS,
        Meant to do it and ” forced to do it ” are two separate things.
        A CMO is a false debt. I’m not going to argue the point!

          CFS
          Jun 18, 2015 18:30 AM

          CMOs have nothing to do with Greek crisis!

            Jun 18, 2015 18:55 PM

            CFS,
            You must be smoking some good stuff. The CMOs are the derivatives that started the domino effect. They are the trillions of derivatives everyone talks about. Greece is loaded with it! And a few big banks hold a lot too. ( interesting to see how it plays out )

        Jun 18, 2015 18:59 AM

        Chartster is right on.
        The Greek situation is very complex. It has legacy roots back to the days of meeting financial requirements of an EU nation. Derivatives on top of derivatives were created to make the balance sheet look strong. It is like writing call options on a losing stock position and collecting the premium to make the books look good, but not marking the stock as a loss. The only question is whether the Greeks will protect their country and default or otherwise conform and become a puppet of the EU and ECB. Greece is a strategic location and a beautiful place. Their are two big countries smiling on the sidelines just waiting to give assistance to Greece and the EU will not be happy. Of course there is corruption, but years ago, they should have insisted a financial analysis of Greece and a cleanup before loaning them more money. It is too late now.

    Jun 17, 2015 17:43 PM

    However, , if the banking system compliance authority ,deem the asset to be real…. Look out .. B a n k s t e r s …..
    The banks are toast when Greece defaults.
    Stay tuned

      Jun 17, 2015 17:50 PM

      No , Greeks are toast. They are going Zimbabwe.

        Jun 17, 2015 17:00 PM

        Lawrence,
        You are thinking like the masses, which is exactly what they want you to do. As for me? I will be all over Greek bonds once it happens. That country is loaded with assets and will be mega strong.
        Watch and see!

          Jun 17, 2015 17:45 PM

          It’s the media program talking. Lawrence is an innocent victim.

            Jun 18, 2015 18:08 AM

            It is common sense. How do you survive if you have nothing to rely on? When reality sits in, they have to be able to support themselves including depending themselves from much stronger creditors. When you comes to international society, there is no safety net. Only one for Greece is EU. It is dog eat dog and fittest survive.

            Jun 18, 2015 18:11 AM

            Defending not depending

          Jun 18, 2015 18:10 AM

          When was Greece mega strong? It is pretty shitty for the last 2000 years.

        Jun 18, 2015 18:14 AM

        Off course they are toast one way or the other. They are in debtor’s prison. How far is US and Japan behind?

          Jun 18, 2015 18:59 AM

          This should be a wake up call for the individual citizen, to rid themselves of all debt, ASAP……

    Jun 17, 2015 17:17 PM

    Gold turned bullish. Plan on buying on dips next few
    days. The rally though is not going to blow your socks
    off. 1220 is about it.

    Not very exciting. Traders only market. Unless we get
    a good dip I’m standing aside.

    CYA…

    Jun 18, 2015 18:37 AM

    Bird- can you explain how the Banks get ‘theirs’ if Greece exits…??
    thanks