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Is Greece a “deadbeat nation” or a victim of the bankers?

Big Al
June 29, 2015

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Chris Temple brings up a very interesting question pertaining to Greece. Will the Greeks be the first to say that the bankers really “have no clothes” and are detrimental to the world.

Interesting question – think about it!

Chris asks the question to the Greeks, “Do you want to be perpetually in debt?”

 

Discussion
98 Comments
    Jun 29, 2015 29:06 AM

    They are in debt because of the Olympics. Then right after the Olympics there was the financial crash. They were unable to recover. 21 out of the 22 buildings that were built for the Olympics are now vacate and just rotting away.

    CFS
    Jun 29, 2015 29:14 AM

    I disagree.
    I believe the collapse of Fannie and Freddie were due to government policy, not the “banks”
    You seem to forget the 2012 partial forgiveness of Greek debt.

    The bankers made the mistake of loaning too much, of course.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:47 AM

      And the relevant question here is, “why do they lend too much”?

        CFS
        Jun 29, 2015 29:53 AM

        They are greedy. Many of them.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:22 PM

      They lend too much because they own the government(s). When you know that you’ll be bailed out, “ninja” loans suddenly make sense. Fannie and Freddie were set up as a way to offload everyone’s stupidity onto the taxpayer. Leading up to the housing crash, there was every incentive to simply make as many loans as possible.

      Under the Bush administration, it became illegal to decline certain high risk loans to unqualified people.

      There is also an agenda that goes way beyond profits.

      Having said that, governments are guiltier than the bankers because they supposedly exist to serve the voters.

        CFS
        Jun 29, 2015 29:39 PM

        It was under Clinton, that red-lining was made illegal.

          Jun 29, 2015 29:08 PM

          It is not my intention to defend Clinton or imply that he was less guilty, but I was referring to things like this:

          2002
          June 17:President G.W. Bush sets goal of increasing minority home owners by at least 5.5 million by 2010 through tax credits, subsidies and a Fannie Mae commitment of $440 billion to establish NeighborWorks America with faith-based organizations.[34]

          2003
          December: President Bush signs the American Dream Downpayment Act to be implemented under the Department of Housing and Urban Development. The goal was to provide a maximum downpayment assistance grant of either $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever was greater. In addition, the Bush Administration committed to reforming the homebuying process that would lower closing costs by approximately $700 per loan. It was said it would further stimulate homeownership for all Americans.[37]
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_United_States_housing_bubble

          There are two major left wing parties in the U.S. and they are working for one long term goal. More people should know this by now.

        Jun 29, 2015 29:55 PM

        Actually, you are talking about the Community Reinvestment Act which happened under President Clinton.

          Jun 29, 2015 29:37 PM

          Gong – The Community Reinvestment Act was passed in 1977.

          Jun 29, 2015 29:38 PM

          The CRA actually started under Carter; 1977.

            Jun 29, 2015 29:39 PM

            Oops, didn’t see ya there, Tyler.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:15 AM

    Maybe you should ask Draghi …

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-06-14/draghi-says-he-knew-nothing-about-goldman-greece-deal-1-

    And yes, you will see: Spainext, Portexit, Italexit, Francexit, …

      Jun 29, 2015 29:34 AM

      Draghi………like who would ever believe anything that a rep for the cartel would say…….ha,ha, what a joke……..

        Jun 29, 2015 29:48 AM

        I think that is a valid question, given the circumstances!

      Jun 29, 2015 29:51 AM

      Draghi – another Goldman Sachs alumnus

    CFS
    Jun 29, 2015 29:16 AM

    The root problem is governments always spend to much money.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:27 AM

      Same old BS…….for 2500 yrs……as Chris said………money changers…….

        Jun 29, 2015 29:49 AM

        So Moscow, who is going to step in and turn over the tables this time?

          Jun 30, 2015 30:33 AM

          The same One Who turned over the tables then. Jesus is the Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (that’s present tense 2,000 years ago; Revelation 1:5).

      Jun 29, 2015 29:49 AM

      I do agree. It all boils down to “something for nothing”!

        Jun 30, 2015 30:46 AM

        Sadly, what few understand with modern day banking is that it’s the banks that provide nothing – “money” created out of thin air that they never had to acquire or honestly work for — in exchange for the something of the debtor: the debtor’s labor, assets and very life.

      CFS
      Jun 29, 2015 29:10 PM

      Even under stupid communist Keynsian economic theory, although governments are supposed to spend to maintain the economy during the bad times, they are supposed to cut back spending during the good times.
      The Greek governments undwe the Junta, Papandreou, a coalition or now communist, will just never cut back on spending and the Greek people refuse to pay enough taxes.
      Now the only offers the government will make is raising taxation, which will not work, on many levels.

      I hope the rest of Europe’s southern countries are learning from the Greek problem, but I do not expect they are. Problems with the smaller fringe countries can always be absorbed, but if a bigger economy causes problems, Europe will get into trouble.

    CFS
    Jun 29, 2015 29:17 AM

    Too not to

    CFS
    Jun 29, 2015 29:24 AM

    See m. Pento on USAWatchdog.com

    Jun 29, 2015 29:24 AM

    More pain to come…………….GOTS……………….

      Jun 29, 2015 29:28 PM

      Frank …..Das Boot.

      If you want some real pain, try reading some of the interactions you had (when you were Jerry OOTB) in dealing with Birdman on the Rick or Gary blogs today at the bottom.

      What a model citizen Birdman has been for the KE Report and so kind to his fellow bloggers. Read it and……….weep. 🙂

        Jun 30, 2015 30:11 AM

        It is my hope that by posting the kind of negative comments from Jan-April on the KER as a case study in what we don’t need more of, that moving forward we don’t have the kind of negative weekend shows like we’ve been having lately.

        I’m here for sharing great investing info with fellow posters in a welcoming and constructive forum, and this site has been centered around commodities and energy for years. The constant attacks from certain posters, bickering, or flat out insulting comments are not going to attract new posters, speakers, or sponsors unless someone stands up for treating your neighbor and this site with some respect.

        I hope the point of posting the trash talk in an exaggerated format, get the point across when everyone has to scan through it. Maybe moving forward we can have less of that, and more teamwork and synergy.

        Peace.

          Jun 30, 2015 30:05 AM

          No Shad, that is not your hope. Posting the way you did was an attempt to isolate and ostracize the one person here who refused to accept your childish, dictatorial approach to how the format of the show should be structured.

          It was retaliatory and vindictive and most here recognized that immediately.

          You were attempting to garner support from others against me and failed in the process.

          Lets recall exactly what you said to Al yesterday that touched off your posting rampage. In that extremely lengthy post you specifically noted your objections to all discussion of politics and religion and personal anecdotes to name just three of the topics you did not want to see anymore.

          Today however you are spinning your posts another way entirely and in the process proving that it is actually freedom of speech and the rights of others to openly express opinion that sticks in your craw. Basically you just don’t like how some people talk and write.

          What you call bickering is known as debate and discussion in other circles and it need not be pretty to be acceptable. Sometimes it may even be quite ugly. Since when do we need to like everything everyone else says for them to be *permitted* posting rights?

          Nobody here has a franchise on what another person says and so we are also free to argue and fight about each others comments without censorship from the likes of you. Even HeavyHitter (who I detest because I think he is a troll), has a right to free speech! That’s why Al allows him to keep repeating mantras about end-of-times, the Rapture, Hell and nuclear destruction.

          Shad, your approach is striking in its irony and is anathema to almost everything people here stand for. First amongst these is the right of personal expression in whatever way it might be couched. That includes posts that are sometimes blunt, distasteful, insulting and occasionally vulgar.

          Therefore in my humble opinion that makes you part of the problem because by default you represent the agenda of the new totalitarianism that is on the rise and are part of the class of politically correct police who would shut down all so-called inappropriate and unwanted discussion to suit their narrow spring-scented view of the world.

          Anyone jumping to your defense is virtually by default in disagreement with the First Amendment itself. Did you think for example that Bob Moriarty would leap to your side to squash free expression and dissenting views?

          You have got to be living in a delusion!

          And that is why you have no support today in this crowd because to take such a position in your favour is tantamount to agreeing to a whole host of other restrictions that might also include the limits on religious beliefs, limits on the right to freedom of travel and assembly, limits on the rights to bear arms, independence from the state and fairness in taxation.

          Do you also support strict controls in those areas while you are shutting down discussion boards? Do we have the right to order what women do with their own bodies during pregnancy? Shall we also control what happens in the bedroom between consenting adults?

          When you quote my historical posts to prove your point that I am sometimes obnoxious or opinionated all you are really doing is proving that this site is tolerant of alternate viewpoints (even harsh ones) and that freedom of expression is still alive and well. And in the process it was a great test of the resolve of people who come here daily that showed they overwhelmingly do not support your position.

          They told you by their silence.

          As Elaine on Seinfeld once exclaimed to her accusers after she was exposed as going bra-less ….. “I have seen the nipple on your soul!”

          So it is you who has a problem with tolerance….not me because I express my opinions. And that my friend is a God-given right you won’t repress unless I cease to live and breath.

          ————————–
          ————————-

          PS: You should read the site banner and disclaimers. They state that this site is intended for entertainment purposes only and does not offer investment advice of any kind. Nor does it accept any responsibility whatsoever for investment choices that you might make based on comments you have read here. So you are wrong that it is strictly a hard assets and investment based website that should be focused strictly on companies in the mining sector and commentary along those lines. Not one person here that I can name is an investment professional with certification to either offer or accept advice. It is therefore a site offering no more than personal opinions people express. It is furnished for your entertainment only. So take a deep breath buddy and stop trying to make it something that is probably not even legal under existing US investment regulation.

            Jun 30, 2015 30:15 PM

            Thanks Shad, we have to agree.

            Al

            Jun 30, 2015 30:18 PM

            Shad, I took down your comments and Bird’s comments as they involved bickering with each other. Please don’t take this the wrong way.

            Thank you,

            A

            Jun 30, 2015 30:25 PM

            That is fine Big Al. I recommend it and feel some moderation is order. That was the point that started this discussion the weekend show in the first place. I think there were many more heated debates on the weekend show that were more nasty, but I completely understand and respect that decision Big Al.

            Cheers to you sir!

            Jun 30, 2015 30:31 PM

            Trust me Vortex,

            We will recover.

            Unfortunately, it is causing Cory and I a lot of extra work.

            We are now considering, three “trashes” and then eviction.

            We have worked too hard and have too much respect for the rest of you.

            Jun 30, 2015 30:48 PM

            As an aside Al, you are answering a post from Vortex that was totally unrelated to me. It is a copy/paste from Shad and has nothing to do with today’s conversation or even my conversations from many months ago.

            Should I also start making stuff up to make a case?

            Jun 30, 2015 30:50 PM

            I simply don’t have the time to go back and edit the comments pertaining to the Weekend Show.

            From now on though!

            Jun 30, 2015 30:10 PM

            Birdman – Those comments from Jody and Vortex were about the arguments, name-calling, and insulting fights you were having with Matthew, Andrew, Heavy Hitter, Jerry OOTB, and Glenfidish in late March – early April. You were the only ones doing that kind of behavior at that time. Go read the blogs from those few weeks before and see what they are talking about. That was the point of the large posts, to show how those kinds of comments run people off the site Bird.

            BTW you made 2 personal attacks again on me on today’s Gary’s blog and Chris blog. Are you going to stop this Bird?

    Jun 29, 2015 29:27 AM

    Probably should be a few Greek leaders put in jail. Goldman Sacs should pay a hefty fine (bankers don’t ever go to jail) and the bankers should be told to get lost.
    Had they done this several years ago….they would likely be on the mend, like Iceland. The whole mess reminds me of John Perkin’s book whereby the US facilitated and advocated loans to emerging countries with the sole purpose of controlling the politics and resources of those nations with the debt created. Ecuador and Indonesia were two of the victims. The same hanky-panky that was foisted on the county gov’t in Montgomery, AL and ended in bankruptcy. Bankers are sloths at best and I’m trying to find the word to describe the worst! JMO.

      CFS
      Jun 29, 2015 29:12 PM

      On what grounds would you jail Greek leaders? They have simply been doing what the populace requested.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:49 PM

      Silver Dollar,
      Don’t worry about these bankers. I think they are getting delusional. Some how they think they can fly. So far ,it’s not working out.
      However, I’m sure a few of them that knew too much were forced to see if they could fly.

    bb
    Jun 29, 2015 29:32 AM

    Good comparisons of the size of the issue in Greece Cory.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:44 AM

    Wow guys, you almost got to the root of the issue. Great discussion of what’s happening and you guys went a lot of places with this.

    Greece is just the micro of the macro. What we are seeing is the end of the fiat currency system. It has completely run it’s course. The new system has been being built right in front of us with the BRICS, AIIB and CIPS. The countries in Europe have not printed new currencies for no reason. The reason is that they are going asset backed. Each country has to be separate. But they will probably keep the euro for international trade using the SDR.

    When they go back to assets, they fund the system using those assets to create capital. The old debt was not real, so that should be some type of made up credit swap. The problem was not fractional reserve banking, it was how money is created to begin with. In the asset based system, there should be a fractional reserve element that works.

    And yes, Al, we are going back to fundamentals. Soon!

    Great job, Al, Cory and Chris!

      Jun 29, 2015 29:52 AM

      Thank you Chartster!

      Regarding fundamentals, “they never go away and that is why they are called fundamentals”!

        Jun 29, 2015 29:58 AM

        Al,
        The fiat vapor paper scheme tossed fundamentals out the window. The good news is, the fundamentals will be a big part of trading again.

        Fundamentals take me to the asset classes to trade. The chart says what to do.

          Jun 29, 2015 29:05 PM

          In hindsight, I think fiat money 1972 and then the Glass Steagal act 1994 crushed any form of fundamental skills. After 1994 the system was completely rigged.

            Jun 29, 2015 29:32 PM

            Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999. It’s funny how both the left and the right are silent when their side is guilty of something that they would lambast their opponents for.

            Jun 29, 2015 29:39 PM

            You’re right. And the euro in 98.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:56 PM

      BINGO…Charster!

    Jun 29, 2015 29:49 AM

    On a side note. The powers that be always have to create a problem, so the masses are ok with the solution. And that’s what is going on.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:52 AM

      Of course it is, at least to an extend!

    Jun 29, 2015 29:55 AM

    Greece was never going to pay these fraudulent debts and Deutsche Bank is insolvent.

    We have to check Deutsche Bank … and the derivatives (100 Trillions) !!!

    Jun 29, 2015 29:05 PM

    Don’t look now, but Puerto Rico, not to be outdone by Greece is wanting to default now too:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33317495

    CFS
    Jun 29, 2015 29:14 PM

    Purto Rico will default on Wednesday.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:03 PM

    The Greeks, along with the Irish, Portugeuse, Spanish and Italians, were sold the myth that the Euro would be like the US Dollar. That a Euro in one of the PIIGS was worth the same as one in Germany.

    So a beer in Germany would cost the same in Euros as in Greece or in Belgium. Ditto a car or a washing machine or a pair of shoes.

    But this was not, and is not, the reality

    CFS
    Jun 29, 2015 29:04 PM

    My cousin in Greece states that his branch bank manager told him that the bank branch will received money to cover the first 50 customers each day and then close the ATM.
    So that only about €3000 per day! I would guess his town has 2 or 3 bank branches for 20,000 people.
    Anecdotal, but is probably fairly typical.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:23 PM

      Lots of the Greek islands do not even have an ATM. Banks are closed.

        CFS
        Jun 29, 2015 29:37 PM

        I agree. Hotels have long been cashiers of credit cards/ATM equivalents in Greece.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:13 PM
      Jun 29, 2015 29:26 PM

      Check out a blast from the past on the Rick or Gary blog Matthew. I featured some of your prior interactions with Birdman on this blog as examples of the heckling and negative religious comments I was concerned about yesterday.

      What a gentleman Bird was to everyone in the Spring 🙂

      You’ll laugh and cry so hard from his hate speech that it will feel like you’re partying like it is 1929.

        Jun 30, 2015 30:16 AM

        On a more serious note, this weekend’s show was often very much the same kind of negativity, personal attacks from certain posters, and bickering over controversial subjects that don’t seem to want to go away. I’m not sure if Al and Cory realize some of the comments being posted on the site or how nasty things have gotten this year, so I posted 3 months worth to digest as a case study.

        Personally, I’m here for sharing great investing info with fellow posters in a welcoming and constructive forum, and this site has been centered around commodities and energy for years. The constant attacks from certain posters, bickering, or flat out insulting comments are not going to attract new posters, speakers, or sponsors unless someone stands up for treating your neighbor and this site with some respect.

        I hope the dramatic point of posting the trash talk in an exaggerated format, gets the point across when everyone has to scan through it. Maybe moving forward we can have less of that, and more teamwork and synergy.

        Peace.

          Jun 30, 2015 30:09 AM

          ***Crickets****

          Jun 30, 2015 30:39 PM

          It was left behind at the end of the night when everyone was getting ready to move on to a new day and new blog. I wouldn’t gauge the support by response on a dead blog. ….but thanks again for you’re insightful commentary. 🙂

    Jun 29, 2015 29:16 PM

    Unbridled Capitalism is Evil – end of story.

    It enslave billions and subjects them to poverty. Even in the West most people have a millstone around their necks of housing costs, costs of living and the worries of putting enough money aside for old age. You also have the worry of healthcare in the US.

    In the ‘Third World’ it enslaves people by hunger, thirst and disease… and war.

    If Jesus was around today – I mention him because about 90% of Americans claim to be Christians – he would be horrified at the Capitalist system that comes out of New York and London.

    Capitalism is just as evil as Communism was. Perhaps the very fact that Communism lost the Cold War – or so we thought – was the spur that allowed Capitalism to go to new depths of depravity.

      CFS
      Jun 29, 2015 29:38 PM

      There speaks a true socialist!

        Jun 29, 2015 29:43 PM

        If Bob UK means “unbridled free markets,” then you are absolutely right. The problem with capitalism today is that it is dominated by complete Marxists. Crony capitalism IS a form of socialism. The masses don’t have a damned clue when they condemn free market proponents because they would know a free market if it smacked them in the face.

          Jun 29, 2015 29:31 PM

          I agree 100%, Matthew.
          They are brainwashed.

        Jun 29, 2015 29:57 PM

        Nah, I am on the side of the Angels… and, thankfully, at least one of them seems to be on my side 😉

      Jun 30, 2015 30:42 AM

      Excellent point Bob – Sadly the average “Christian” thinks that Biblical economics are represented by today’s Capitalist system and the G.O.P./Ayn Rand/Adam Smith, etc. Very far from the truth. Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the same coin.

        Jun 30, 2015 30:56 PM

        The G.O.P today is hardly different than the democrats when it comes to economics. What it boils down to is force. D or R, you know you’re dealing with a collectivist (socialist/fascist/communist/crony capitalist) if the individual promotes or endorses coercion. Neither party is for economic freedom and therefore personal freedom. The ignorant masses do not understand that you can’t have one without the other.

        So, there’s something very wrong with “biblical economics” if it IS represented by the democrats as you seem to suggest by leaving them off of your list. There’s also something very wrong with your understanding of economics and right and wrong if you believe that the democrats are a force for anything good.

        Socialists, wherever you find them, tend to be emotional and illogical haters of reason and reality.

        Rand nails it with this:

        http://jim.com/money.htm

        The elite have always been behind the push for collectivism of all types because it serves THEIR interests.

          Jul 01, 2015 01:02 AM

          Great points Matthew! I am a fan Ayn Rand as well.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:43 PM

    DOW DOWN 350PTS…………..GOLD UP $5………..what a hoot…………

      Jun 29, 2015 29:35 PM

      DOLLAR GOT HAMMERED………

        Jun 29, 2015 29:33 PM

        The dollar got hammered.
        Oil dropped. And gold hardly budged.

          Jun 30, 2015 30:12 AM

          The dollar is the same value today as it was on Friday the 26th …. no net change.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:24 PM

      Check out a blast from the past on the Rick or Gary blog Andrew. I featured some of your interactions with Birdman. What a gentleman he was to everyone in the Spring 🙂

        Jun 29, 2015 29:50 PM

        No I’ve not forgotten Shad!! I try and work with Dr Jekyll!!

          Jun 30, 2015 30:28 AM

          I’ve tried and will continue to try to work with Birdman, but he mocks and honest call to treat each other with respect not spend hours bickering. I made some comments to Big Al, and he was very respectful and we had a good discussion on the weekend show, but Birdman had to keep making personal attacks.

          I was rooting for cooperation, and a free exchange of ideas to Big Al and less drama, but Birdman had to chime in creating more drama. As a result, I decided to go and cut and paste some of the comments he made from Jan-April, where he was attacking almost every poster on the blog at one point or another as an example of what is not constructive.

          It may have been dramatic, and some have mentioned it was inconvenient, but at least the issue is on the table. Unlike the critique I received back from Birdman, I’m not trying to control anything, and obviously can not, so that is a silly acquisition he made. I am calling for everyone to be more kind, and yes a little more focused on investing ideas in the commodities and energy space, as well as the general markets, bond markets and currency markets. It is the Korelin ECONOMICS report after all.

          For 3 years I’ve enthusiastically posted charts, articles, technical analysis, fundamental analysis, and relevant economic discussions. I’ve tried to be positive, and there are many other posters that are the same way, and here for the same reasons. I continue to hope we can have more of that synergy and less drama, but sometimes you got to break a few eggs to make an omelette. 🙂

            Jun 30, 2015 30:16 AM

            You cannot attack me three days running and then turn around and say straight faced you are working with me. Do you really think everyone here is stupid or something? Perhaps I will treat you to a selection of your own recent unprovoked comments and you might wear those glass shoes yourself.

            Jun 30, 2015 30:32 PM

            We are currently implementing major changes, Shad.

            Jul 01, 2015 01:35 AM

            Much appreciated!

            Jul 01, 2015 01:36 AM

            Thanks.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:46 PM

    Just wait till the banks start issuing debit/credit cards in the new cashless society, they will charge you for every transaction at both ends sending and receiving. If you send your mother $10 on Mother’s day by the time she gets the money it will be $5, and then she has to spend it, another charge is added that’s three charges in total.

      bb
      Jun 29, 2015 29:20 PM

      bitgolds lookin better all the time.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:24 PM

    It should be called fractured reserve banking.

    Jun 29, 2015 29:20 PM

    Gold and silver is still going down. How can this happen under sovereign default, two in same day? The power that be is so arrogant and they will take exchange to default.

      Jun 29, 2015 29:21 PM

      Yup, and the infantile masses have sealed our fate.

      “People constantly speak of ‘the government’ doing this or that, as they might speak of God doing it. But the government is really nothing but a group of men, and usually they are very inferior men.” —H.L. Mencken

        Jun 29, 2015 29:24 PM

        “Most men have sated themselves like cattle. … Greater men are allotted greater destinies.” —Heraclitus

    Jun 29, 2015 29:54 PM

    YES, Matthew. Lesser men and women hold a craven desire to ‘lead’. Those who have natural leadership qualities often eschew them.

      Jun 30, 2015 30:18 AM

      Damn truth in that Reverend. I liked that quote.

    Jul 01, 2015 01:11 PM