An update on Greece and the trading range of the markets
Chris Temple is here and we wanted to get a little update on what is happening in Greece. With the country looking closer to staying in the Euro – even though the austerity is getting worse for them – the central banks continue to pull the stings. We then shift over to the conventional markets and it’s continued slow move upward over the past few days.
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Moderation – please delete my account. I will visit this website again.
What moderation?
MUST have been some naughty words……which triggered the “moderation”…..Cory is on the job………….. 🙂
The solution is to sell resources for pennies on the dollar, insane if they go thru with it?
Its not insanity, its the whole point. Seeing it as “nuts” is viewing from the wrong perspective.
See it from the bankers view, it works great.
Burn baby burn, we’ll get our turn
EVERYONE is in DEBT………………the EURO can not be saved……..
In 2010 Greek debt stood at $110 billion. Today it is $320 billion. The Greek people are in an Alcatraz sized debtors’ prison with no hope of getting free. So of course she should get shot of the euro, declare bankruptcy thereby entitling it to become a ‘good’ risk for lenders in the future., do a deal with Russia over a pipeline and introduce a gold backed drachma.
Chaos for the next couple of years stands to be followed by sublime prosperity.
You sure? Greece is not called a serial defaulter for nothing. They went bust in 1826, 1843, 1860, 1894, 1932. Now add in the worst Sovereign debt crisis since the Thirties which Greece suffered in 2009 and its 2012 default. Here we are again in 2015. According to some writers they have spent half their time during the last two hundred years as a bankrupt or in default. Next up is 2017 or maybe a little later.
What is sublime about that? Is it any wonder they need to post collateral or that Tsipras is wearing the sins of the past? Nobody trusts a Greek or the horse he rode in on.
…Thanks to Goldman Sachs help them cook their books…moral hazard rests with the creditors A listener.
I agree, Rev. Not unlike the way in which payday loan outfits and even the “mob” prey on those that are LEAST credit worthy so, too, have these global lenders been way too smug in loaning gobs of money based on what everyone should have known was a bad risk where Greece is concerned. For all the talk about free markets, there’s precious little discussion of how all these bankers should take THEIR medicine and eat these bad debts.
Lets just say they had a reputation before the last round of lending even began. In Greece its the national sport to renege on debts. From that perspective I have to agree the creditors carry a fair amount of blame. It’s not as if they did not know who they were dealing with from the get-go.
Even Abraham Lincoln went bankrupt , from bad money management , three times.
Although moral hazard of debt should rest with Greece’s creditors, most of the $86 billion loan to Greece will go the Troika. Greece is beyond broke, no longer having income producing assets. First 12 mins of Keiser…
http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/273337-episode-max-keiser-783/
zerohedge has some more info on the subject. ………….
Looks like the troika is going after the islands and ports as a payment (collateral) for the loans……….The PM, might want to go into hiding.
Just read, the banks in Greece are not going to allow for the safety deposit boxes to be open, and might become part of the bail in for the banksters.
OMG. Thanking about mine.
Geez Lawrence, safety deposit boxes were already taken at some banks in Britain.
Many warnings around the “blogosphere” about safety deposit boxes being unsafe.
GOTS………has been on record for two or three yrs. now……….GET OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
islands and ports first doesn’t surprise me, could prevent Russians from using them.
The Greek people should be concerned, since the govt can eminent domain any and all private ground around the islands and ports……or tax the heck out of any real estate, to cover any short fall in revenue for the pensions of govt workers.
There is only one way to deal with the “cancer”, and they wont do it.
Heck, they probably don’t even know what needs to be done.
Come on Rev, Greece’ screditors are countries mostly. Countries do not pay; it is always citizens that end up paying for mistakes made by their politicians.
Of course CFS
Just heard Tsipras’s speech. If Greeks don’t take to the streets after what he just said and demand his resignation, I don’t know what will. The only party coming out of this debacle smelling like roses is Golden Dawn. I expect an influx of new supporters to their camp.
Yes, it is desperate and situation might be dire.
To his Syriza supporters, this chicken s&*t traitor Tsipras
is worse than Obama selling out the Democrats to the global plutocrats/bankers with all his alphabet “trade” (really, GLOBAL GOVERNMENT) deals
Chris T, what do you make of the reports stating that the IMF is in favor of debt haircut for Greece? It seems to me like the IMF (and the U.S.) are trying to paint the Germans as the bad guys.
For all their other faults, they understand math. The Germans and E.U. plutocrats do, too–but they have to ignore the math to desperately try to save their political experiment
AND Deutsche bank with $7.3 trillion in derivatives.
MIGHT be some riots on Wed………….tomorrow………..prediction made on July 13, we will see………….
Tsipras was told that bailed out countries do not need election anymore, reported by ZH. IMF might be backing off the deal. It is getting more interesting even though it also gets boring
ditto I read that…………other countries(PIGS) are looking at this play , and thinking THEY might be next to lose everything….THE BANKSTERS MIGHT HAVE JUST STEPPED ON a land mine.
Kind of interesting is right. I had just written earlier this morning about how Newfoundland, which was once an independent state within Canada and part of the British Commonwealth, had essentially been forced into submission due to its overwhelming debts. Its government literally voted itself down out of existence and all members resigned. In its place Britain created a caretaker administrative government of non elected officials and brought debt relief. A decade and a half later Newfoundland joined Canada and Confederation and in the process lost its sovereignty while transferring its major assets to the Federal Government. The story is not so unlike what is happening today in Greece. With one major exception….
Syriza has not yet officially disbanded itself and been replaced by a Commission appointed through the European bodies who would oversee the day to day operations of the “country”.
Was that not a timely post I wrote Lawrence….or what?
Note to riots……..seems to be a riot occurring in the Greek parliament , concerning the vote of NO……”we are not going to take it” 107 out of 201…..we will see.
IT IS WED………AND RIOTS HAVE STARTED……….
I would not call Tsipras a traitor, Chris. To me he is a victim of circumstances outside his control. There was the mention of emotional water-boarding that took place during his final meetings with Merkel. We learned that he was in a night long meeting that lasted 19 hours and nobody was permitted to leave until a solution was arrived at. In short, Tsipras was a hostage to the EZ leadership and even though he was not physically bound he was on some level restrained from ending negotiations with a group who were overwhelmingly opposed to his viewpoints. I personally think he bonded with his peers despite the outrageous demands and therefore he is suffering classic symptoms of Stockholm Syndrome where a captive begins to sympathize with his captors and takes a position against those who are really supporters. The most famous case of SS was Patty Hearst who actually joined with those who had kidnapped her and became a member of the Symbionese Liberation Army. At the time the story broke it seemed utterly bizarre but we do know how this works from a psychological standpoint and why some people actually shift allegiance from those who would help them to those who have victimized them. Tsipras reversal was so exceptional that some might conclude he is suffering Post Traumatic Stress. The methods used against him are also well understood. They involve repetition of a program or idea, sleep deprivation, supportive colleagues, peer pressure, reduction in freedom of movement and on and on. In the end most people would crack and that is what Tsipras did even though he later disavowed his agreement. There will no doubt be a book written on what took place during those final hours and in the final analysis he will be seen to have been a victim who cracked under pressure rather than a traitor to his country.
Stockholm Syndrome Definition
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Stockholm+syndrome
If this is the case , he is unfit to serve in office and should just remove himself. Weak minds have no business in running other people lives……………jmho.
That’s not how I heard the Newfoundland story. Independent and in debt from the war, they had 3 choices, join the U.S. join Canada or stay independent, there was a vote.
They voted independence, the Brits said it didn’t count, they had spent pretty much all they had on the first vote, not having funds to promote independence, the next vote was join Canada.
That’s correct heathen. Except at the time of the vote they were still not independent. Newfoundland was then being ruled by the Commission appointed by Great Britain while the people of Newfoundland were seeking a return to responsible government.
In other words they wanted to exert their sovereignty once again. So a variety of political forces sprang up and the various ideas were pitched to the public. One of those was indeed to join the US as you mentioned but the idea was snuffed out as that did not suit the interests of either Canada nor GB at that time.
There were also suspicions of vote rigging at the final count that were never proved and in the end the 10th province was born. So I agree with you that influence was brought to bear and some people still think they got railroaded into Confederation.
Anyway, there were no elections held between 1934 and 1949 which was the basic idea of my post and how sovereignty was lost due to high debt loads. Just like Greece today.
In other words, we did have a model or precedent from the past although I am not sure it played much of a role in European negotiations.
As an aside though, because England has such a similar case in its own background it is difficult for them to point an accusing finger at Germany when Germany is essentially demanding the exact same thing from Greece that the British got from Newfoundland back in 1933. The demand is that the state cede its power to a higher authority and that elections cease as the debts are unwound. In short, they are trying to bring discipline back to an unruly territory that has behaved irresponsibly with funds and cannot manage a public budget.
Here is a link to this tidbit from history for the curious:
The Commission of Government in Newfoundland, 1934-1949
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/politics/commission-government.php
I just read the short form by Belker? Belkin?
Years since I read it. Think I got it from P. Burton.
At the time I thought it was full of intrigue, spys and the like.
I thought Newfoundland fought ww 2 as Newfoundland, anyway, they lost their sovereignty, always thought that was too bad.
Amazing how history repeats though eh?
Read your post from yesterday, you mention extending mortgages as far out as you can.
A little confused, I figured debt was about the last thing a person wanted about now.
And yes, vey similar Newfoundland and Greece. Definitely rhymes
Yes, the comments about mortgages were intended for those who are actually in hock for a home. I am not in that bad position (thanks to God) and if I recall you are also clear but most others are under a mountain of the stuff and heading for trouble. The best course of action at a time when rates look certain to rise is to lock in a long term and pray the economy does not take too long to heal. I sure don’t advocate for taking on new debt at this time though. That would be nuts in this part of the cycle unless you knew what you were doing.
One of the things about the interne that always amazes me is that no matter how novel an idea you come up with you will almost always find an article written that precedes your thoughts.
Such is the case with the comparisons of Newfoundland versus Greece where this morning I did a search and almost immediately came across a story in The Telegram from February this year which made comparisons similar to my own.
So much for my own novel approach. Seems someone had beaten me to the story after all. But it got no traction at the time and I suspect it is because history is of little interest to most people.
Anyway, here is the story as told by another writer. The idea was also picked up Joseph Stiglitz in brief form so it is known although it represents perhaps a minor footnote in the drama and heat of the day. I do however continue to believe that Newfoundland was the model that Greece is now facing and that it is only a matter of time before sovereignty is given up altogether.
What is notable about Newfoundland is that they caved to British pressure once they had hit the eye watering debt to GDP number of 300 percent. That is when the government folded and voted in favour of their own dissolution. Greece is nowhere near that yet but lets give them a couple years more.
The story of their loss of independence within Europe has hardly yet been written.
Greece and Newfoundland in Turmoil: A Comparison of the 1930s and the Modern Crisis — The Telegram, February 2015.
http://www.thetelegram.com/web-article/25952/Greece-and-Newfoundland-in-Turmoil-A-Comparison-of-the-1930s-and-the-Modern-Crisis
A Listener,
Good stuff in yesterdays Temple thread!
I knew you would enjoy that story. Cheers.
Guy’s,
You all had better stop with all of this conspiracy theorist crazy talk. Your going to scare the crap out of big Al.
Darn it, he’s got a NWO election coming up pretty soon that is filled with Democrat’s and Republican’s who are Americas saviors.
Didn’t you guys get the memo. Now get out there and buy some more materialistic crap that you don’t need with money you don’t have from those crony capitalist companies that Americans love to worship.
Oh BTW, when you go shopping make sure you buy some sturdy knee pads, because your going to need them by the time the NWO is has finished auctioning off the nations assets and are done taking their pound of flesh.
Preaching to the choir…..V………..being saying that to big Owl for 10 yrs…..
Good thoughts Vortex……and funny : – )
Nice one V! But we might as well hedge our bets if Al’s in the NWO and keep in with him!!
Howdy Andrew, great to see you pop in.
We all know big Al isn’t apart of the NWO, we just haven’t been able to convince him that the politicians he votes for that seek elected office in the US are clearly apart of an agenda advancing the globalist doctrine.
Oh well, we’ll keep telling the truth and hoping for a breakthrough. The Leave it to Beaver mind-set is a hard habit to break.
Take care.
V
(1) Greeks work the most hours in the EU: http://www.statista.com/chart/3297/greeks-work-the-longest-hours-in-europe/
(2) Greece retirement age is 67: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement
Greece slippery slope down the mountain started when they went into debt to pay for the Olympics and then the final crises crushed the tourism bump after the games.