A lot to talk about again for our round table market wrap
Here is another one of our famous market wraps! Everyone joined up today to weigh in on the major shift at the tail end of the trading day.
I apologize for the length again but there is so much to cover and not too many people seemed put off by the length of the market wrap yesterday.
Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show
Fat men?
Before all the intervening posts messed things up.
I made a kinda stupid joke, implied referring to Fat Lady singing, that I enjoy the Daily wraps, by my saying ” I enjoy Fat Men singing every day”.
James then added the URL to Conchita Wurst, who came in second in the Eurovision song contest.
But the order in which the comments were added and the locations make things hard to follow.
Bottom line, however, is I appreciate the Daily Wraps.
Hey, Concita won it in 2014.
“Austrian drag act Conchita Wurst has been crowned the winner of the 59th annual Eurovision Song Contest held in Denmark’s capital, Copenhagen. The singer, whose real name is Tom Neuwirth, won with the song Rise Like a Phoenix, collecting 290 points.11 May 2014.”
Austria wins Eurovision Song Contest – BBC News
For Austria. Then the contest went to Austria and the venue for 2015 (as per normal) and Concita gets to present the show being of distinctive appearance.
Gary says “the intervention team ran out of cash”
Chris follows with “they took the day off after lunch”
Does this really pass for serious analysis?
Passes for a kind of humor! Don’t you think?
I thought they were both excellent remarks – and quite funny.
So did I
Does a fall in banking stocks simply mean that the Fed is not going to start QE?
Patience! This is only the beginning of the beginning.
My guess is that the global plunge protection team put on a full court press last night, was able to float the market for a while, before more air came out of the balloon. They are going for a controlled crash landing vs letting it pop all at once. They’d rather boil the frog than have it hopping around all over the place.
What’s important to remember is that this is just another harvest, the fleecing of the lambs, yet again as in ’87, 2000, 08 . All that money doesn’t fly off the face of the earth, it just disappears out of the pockets honest investors and mutual funds and into coffers of power elite. ….And when the money runs out, yet again, the FED will print some more, and we start all over again.
So you are saying that you have been watching and waiting for a market crash for seven long years but when it finally came you did not make a cent off it…….kind of figures. I just don’t get you guys sometimes.
That’s quite an extrapolation:
“So you are saying that you have been watching and waiting for a market crash for seven long years but when it finally came you did not make a cent off it…….kind of figures.”
I suppose for some, hitting outer space when you are shooting for the moon is a definition of success, especially when the facts don’t fit the narrative. Many out here are traders, some even day traders. I don’t any out here sat on their hands the last seven years, including yours truly.
I picked up a couple, Listener. And, I will probably pick up more. I would bet that Rick; Gary; Doc; Chris; and, the other pros did pretty well!
Al, I was speaking to BJ who wrote the following comment:
“What’s important to remember is that this is just another harvest, the fleecing of the lambs, yet again as in ’87, 2000, 08 . All that money doesn’t fly off the face of the earth, it just disappears out of the pockets honest investors and mutual funds and into coffers of power elite….” — BJ
————————-
That sounds to me like someone who is bitter about these declines or does not understand how the game works. He talks about money disappearing out of the pockets of “honest investors” as though he is any different than everyone else who speculated on a trade to make a quick easy buck.
That is complete hypocrisy.
Every single person on this website who had the opportunity and the good sense would indeed have taken the same short trade you did if they foresaw it and not one of them would later claim it was a theft from the elites or they were “fleeced”.
Jesus, who does BJ think he is talking too?
We ARE the elites for crying out loud! Some here are part of the 1% on an income basis and some of the guests are the 1% on an absolute asset basis. BJ’s crying is just pitiful in my books.
He ought to be on the outside for a change looking in and maybe I would be more interested in his complaint.
I agree with you, bj, this is a clumsy attempt at a slow drop.
I hope the pilot on my next flight does not attempt a similar attempt at a slow landing…..it would not work very well.
Neither would I, Professor!
Good comment bj!
Thnx Big Al, Can’t respond directly to A Listener directly above so would like to address his last comment here.
The 19 87, 2000, 2008 comment was to point out how the Fed induced boom bust cycles fleece typical long term passive investors who cost average into their mutual funds in the good faith a professional will manage their money. Many go into index funds of every sort. These are the lambs that get fleeced.
While day traders make money sometimes, they don’t contribute in any way to economic growth or capital formation as envisioned by Adam Smith. They (we) simply profit from gaming the markets–and those with super computer who trade in and out in nanoseconds seem to do the best. My point is the markets are in great need of reform; they need to return to their roots. But until reform takes place, beginning with the reinstatement of Glass Steagall, We will continue to game the markets, more often than not as momentum players.
…And because I study the charts and play the game, I am a hypocrite for wishing a more level playing field where the crooks go to jail instead of government regulators demanding their cut in the form of fines (a tax of sorts).
BTW, I liquidated my core last Spring cause everything was smelling really bad, and if I can catch 60-80% of a bull market I’m happy.. So while you guys were plugging away, I was playing golf, blowing bubbles in the pool and casting flies at wary trout. After all, the summer of 2015 happens only once in a lifetime.
My objection BJ is that I don’t think you are acknowledging your own role in the market. Almost everyone who comes to this site to talk, read, post and write are speculators.
We are a very small segment of the investment community and an even smaller percentage of the total population. Our goals are typically to exploit divergences in price and weaknesses in the buying and selling habits of others who don’t spend anywhere near as much time we do understanding the dynamics of market pricing.
We typically disparage most typical investors and especially the retail community by calling them sheep. While there are millions of households in the US who hold stock portfolios there is just a small percentage amongst them who would qualify as genuine speculators who earn their meat trading as a hobby or for a living.
So who are we really?
That is exactly the point. None of us fits the profile of a typical investor. Many here earn their full time incomes buying and selling. Some have become billionaires in the process and been interviewed on the show. And do we not look up to those guys who were the best in this field and made strategic bets that earned them fortunes?
Look, when we know that up to 60% of the US population does not have two nickels to rub together if an emergency arises it just rings hollow to me that you complain about other guys who are actually even better market players than you are as if the world is really unfair to the spec community.
Would we not take those easy trades if we saw them first? Absolutely we would!
It’s like one bunch of rich guys complaining about another bunch of rich guys who are a little faster, more connected and possibly even smarter or more hard working. If you were Joe Six-pack and said the exact same things (ass in your original post) it would have been entirely OK with me and I would have agreed you were right.
But when you speak from the position of being one of the people who is actively speculating and creating market liquidity with the intent of taking profit (zero sum…someone else loses) then you are really complaining about people exactly like yourself.
So which one do you want to be?
I have been hearing this same tired refrain from a lot of others just like you for many years now. ALL speculators are bothered that the game is not rigged in their favour and yet nonetheless many have made millions (even billions) by gaming the market very profitably thank you very much.
As one simple recent example should demonstrate…….the other day Shad made a very smart bet on UVXY that paid out high double digit gains in a single session. We don’t know the size of his bet but lets say it was ten-K and his return was 50% or a neat 5000 dollars. That hardly makes him part of the regular uninformed herd of investors whose idea of a great year is earning 4% annually on a mutual fund after commissions!
So before we all start crying about how tough life is making a buck in the markets lets not forget that the vast majority of people in the country are not within a thousand miles of what most here are doing casually on a day to day basis.
We shall not weep if we ONLY earned a few percent on a trade. Nor will we gnash our teeth if smarter guys are sometimes leading us and occasionally eating our lunch because they got up earlier in the morning and made the effort.
We are speculators BJ…….wear it with pride man.
CFS or they don’t do a rate rise for banks to make money..
Rick’s been right about bonds (TLT), for like 2 mos now. But it’s a real bronco.
I think that Gary’s cycle work has GLD dialed in. This cycle stuff isn’t precise to the day, but it does seem to work for major moves, and so I’d keep an eye on GLD and GDX for a turn.
Remember too the other stuff Gary looks at – COT (lowest level in 12 yrs), Sentiment, etc. That stuff is still all true.
If GDX has a reversal candle at/near the Aug 5 lows of 13.01, I’m a buyer (as a swing trade).
Appears to be, Bill in Tokyo!
Anybody else find it curious that the DOW closed at 15,666 ?
spooky.
Could be one heck of a coincidence!
One of many. 😉
Paul Coghlan’s webinar recording from 21 Augusat, a must see in my view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFy-PFRq2BE
A look at Gold and Silver on August 21st 2015
Median Line Analysis
The guy and his charts are amazing in my view.
Also does a good market commentary.
He also seems to see a lot of cross-correlations moving at the moment.
Around 9min 19sec into the above video into 10+ ,minutes is particularly interesting in terms of charts 7 August given as a key date.
Coghlan mentions $1143 as an area to watch for support in gold.
Today we are at $1140 after dipping to $1135.
See 11 minutes 20 seconds in to the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFy-PFRq2BE
He didn’t really mention it but there is also a good line for support at … $1135 so today’s action is not a disaster … yet.
For GARY, if you think currencies ae untradeable – take a look at Coghlan’s chart of the Kiwi, the New Zealand dollar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFy-PFRq2BE&t=14m11s
Thanks Dave, that was very worthwhile.
Ashes, ashes they ALL fall down
At least starting to do that, The Greater!
Gary is now back peddling on his $1250 rapid bounce call
James,
Apparently you didn’t listen to the recording.
Why are so many still so conservative in their downwards price targets?
Did everyone already forget 2007 and 2008
DOW 6000 totally realistic
Bottom line. China’s move was the straw that broke the market’s back.
Maybe its just me but I really don’t feel all that negative about the markets right now. Not gold, the S&P or even the dollar. Maybe I just don’t possess the gloom gene lately. Either that or someone spiked my coffee.
Listener,
I’m absolutely loving this drop and volatility. This is how the big money is made by proper positioning and taking advantage of extreme value.
I would be absolutely ecstatic if gold weakens further. The mining share values will be staggering and I can’t wait for it to happen if it eventually does.
It may take until Doc’s December time frame.
Someone must have spiked your coffee too! Hahahaha!
I agree a 100% with what you just wrote. There are trades setting up everywhere right now that look incredibly enticing. Maybe that’s why I feel positive. We are just weeks and months from liftoff in many cases so rather than feel hard done by that one or two trades did not pan out during a mini crash I like to keep my focus on the big fish that’s ready to be reeled into the boat.
Good thoughts Vortex. The volatility is what creates the opportunity.
Yea the S&P is a mess. W/the Fed rates, China, etc. – it has too moving parts for me.
I still think Gary has GDX dialed in. Take a listen to the am call – I just did – I think he has it exactly correct. I just hope the lower low is divergent, so TA junkies like me can take the trade.
… it has too *many* moving parts for me.
Why does a Dow “15, 666 .44” closing print make me uneasy?
Think back to when the S&P closed at 666 in 2008.
Yep !
Today was a dangerous day in the US markets as a plus-400 point rally in the Dow turned into an ugly 200-plus downer at the close. The last time this happened was in the dark days of 2008.
Many billions more lost by investors who fail to understand or believe that the party is over. The Fed-induced bull market of the past seven years is on its last, wobbly legs.
Gold was pushed down by the early market optimism but should advance nicely in the weeks ahead as the Bear continues to rage.
As things get really ugly, the Blame Game ramps up. The Americans will blame China. China blames the US. The rest of the world runs for cover but where can you hide?
What happens next? Investor anger will turn to resignation as the Dow works its way down to the 12,000s as the nasty news builds. Watch for bankruptcies in the oil industry. Watch for some banks to fail. More currency crisis in emerging markets.
Its getting ugly out there but the real pain will likely become evident in September and October.
A whole host of people feel that same way, Gabriel!
I agree 100% Gabriel with those points:
– Yes todays rally up and titanic sinking ending reminds me of 2008.
– Gold may get some bid for safe haven appeal, but for now I agree with Doc that it will be more muted. However, Chris Temple and Rick Ackerman made good points when they gave Gold the benefit of the doubt to surprise as either a knee-jerk reaction or because nobody expects it.
– People love the blame game and the US will blame China for their markets and economic slowdown, Russia will blame the US for sanctions and China for commodity slip, that pressured Oil (along with massive over supply), which tanked the Russia ruble. Europe and Germany in particular will blame Greece for their mess. The emerging markets will blame the strong dollar and their weak currencies on hurting their dollar debt levels and punishing their purchasing power. The US will blame the strong dollar for hurting our exports, but then use it as shield of why the Fed couldn’t raise rates. I’m sure the Fed, ECB, BOJ, BOE, BOC, etc… will get their share of the blame.
– I’ve been pounding the table all year about how the implosion in the Oil patch will show up in Q2 & Q3 and be a full-fledged mess by the end of the year with bankruptcies, financial institutions cratering that financed their companies, the over-supply elephant in the room would be heard, and the job losses from this carnage in Oil, oil related supply and service companies, and the financial institutions intertwined, would be the nail in the coffin to tip the rosy economy narrative. This will only make the timing of this plunge all that more nasty, and has been my reasoning for a major September correction all year (before everyone was touting Shemitah).
Yes, it is getting ugly out there, and many of the contributors on this site called the Summer slump in commodities from June – early August, the bounce in PMs for mid to late August, and the Sept/Oct correction that would be coming. We’ve seen it coming each step of the process, and that is why the networking and insights shared on this forum, crush CNBC or Yahoo Finance every day of the week.
I hope people have profited from the trends we’ve all been sharing and good luck to everyone investing this in these wild markets.
You are so right Shad. The news is always past history. Its what has already gone and is not therefore tradeable. The fascinating thing about sites like this is most people are busy predicting the future months and years ahead of when the actions and events unfold. Sometimes they do it with uncanny accuracy. They are seers, not historians.
You will NEVER get that on TV business news. It is not what NEWS is designed to offer their audience.
Great points about the uncanny accuracy many of the contributors on this site have for projecting how actions and events unfold. Many on here really are “seers, not historians.”
Yes news is, by default, in the past and not tradable. However, the emotional or psychological reactions to news can cause ripples and new trends to develop. Charting is more for predicting where things are headed.
Cheers to all the seers and armchair historians and great people on this site!
The system is broken and although we may see a few rallies in the next couple of years the general trend is down. We are not in a recession this is much worse, only they can no longer say The “D” word, Depression. Jobs aren’t coming back either because artificial intelligence or AI is re-designing the workplace. Not only will most people never have a retirement pension their jobs are being replaced by machines. Even people on this site don’t want to hear reality. DT
Yes, the reality is starting to sink in, but we are still at the early onset of what kind of a new economic and labor reality will emerge from this chapter of the saga.
I disagree, I think they listen and are very aware of reality!
I believe DT was referencing prior responses on the blog about the jobs not coming back due to advances in plant designs using robotics. The discussion was brought up in the past and some bloggers scoffed at the idea of machines replacing certain jobs by doing the work. There was a neat article posted about how a new smart plant was build in China that took 300 person factory down to just 6 people and the rest of the work was done (24/7) by the machines. It’s an interesting topic for the ever changing labor marketplace and for reducing input costs.
Yes Shad, in the mid 1980’s I worked at an electrical contractor where we were asked to redesign a food plant that produced one item salad dressing. At the time the land that this plant was located on was very expensive and the company knew that they could sell this property and build a new factory in the country which would employ one tenth of it’s present labor force to achieve the same production. One of their employees went in and drew up their existing system and came up with a completely new design. It was rebuilt in a small town near the major city and was operational in 4 months. The number of employees dropped from approximately forty down to five. This was around thirty years ago and many more advances have been made since then.
It is a fascinating subject and an issue that is affecting job. It is curious that the kind of jobs (IT, Information Systems, robot repair, diagnostics) in growth mode, are much fewer in number and replacing entire teams of workers of the manufacturing sector jobs. The days of hundreds or thousands of people working at the plant are diminishing each year due to improvements in technology.
I also posted some articles on this blog recently about robotics improving but changing the Gold and PGM mining is South Africa. the days of old and expensive deep mines are ending, and multiple shallow robotic mining pits is concept replacing that model. Robots don’t go on strike endlessly or demand higher wages, or get injured, or call in sick, etc…
Lastly, I agree that people pining for the days of old when jobs well come back from overseas are barking up the wrong tree. Those inefficient business models are not returning. Good thoughts Dick Tracy.
these market wraps are a great addition…who cares how long they are…its the accuracy-
Thanks Agatha!
Agreed. I love these market wraps and am not worried about the length. 20 – 30 minutes is fine because there are 6 people total on them and that is really about 4-5 minutes a piece to cover multiple topics.
Accuracy?
Maybe I tuned into the week no show
So Mr. Phil are you implying that the commentary is worthless?
Its OK Al, Phil is mad about silver falling again. Your show was great today but it all depends on the lens one sees it through. Like being at a banquet with fantastic food but because everyone at that party is angry you just cannot enjoy the good tastes.
Good analogy.
PBOC interest rates:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/interest-rate
If anything, rates should rise spectacularily in China with the advent of a new Asian Pacific currency debacle.
Where did you get that!
21.7 million views? Well, I guess. James you must love the marriage equality legislation!
jsmineset
Pension Funds Sue Big Banks over Manipulation of $12.7 Trillion Treasuries Market
Monday, August 24, 2015
At least two government pension funds have sued major banks, accusing them of manipulating the $12.7 trillion market for U.S. Treasury bonds to drive up profits, thereby costing the funds—and taxpayers—millions of dollars.
As with another case earlier this year, in which major banks were found to have manipulated the London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR), traders are accused of using electronic chat rooms and instant messaging to drive up the price that secondary customers pay for Treasury bonds, then conspiring to drop the price banks pay the government for the bonds, increasing the spread, or profit, for the banks. This also ends up costing taxpayers more to borrow money.
In the latest complaint, the Oklahoma Firefighters Pension and Retirement System is suing Barclays Capital, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, HSBC Securities, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and others, according to Courthouse News Service. Last month State-Boston Retirement System (SBRS) filed a similar complaint against 22 banks, many of which are the same defendants in the Oklahoma suit.
“Defendants are expected to be ‘good citizens of the Treasury market’ and compete against each other in the U.S. Treasury Securities markets; however, instead of competing, they have been working together to collusively manipulate the prices of U.S. Treasury Securities at auction and in the when-issued market, which in turn influences pricing in the secondary market for such securities as well as in markets for U.S. Treasury-Based Instruments,” the Oklahoma complaint states.
The State-Boston suit, which named Bank of America Corp’s Merrill Lynch unit, Citigroup, Credit Suisse Group, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, JPMorgan Chase, UBS and 14 other defendants, makes similar charges.
SBRS uncovered the scheme when it hired economists to analyze Treasury securities price behavior, which pointed to market manipulation by the banks.
“The scheme harmed private investors who paid too much for Treasuries, and it harmed municipalities and corporations because the rates they paid on their own debt were also inflated by the manipulation,” Michael Stocker, a partner at Labaton Sucharow, which represents State-Boston, said in an interview with Reuters. “Even a small manipulation in Treasury rates can result in enormous consequences.”
More…
I don”t know if this table will post, but here goes:
For SILVER
(Just call me CashForSilver, after all)
………………………………………..LAST +/- SETTLE
SILVER GLOBEX AUG 15 14.665 0.055 14.610
SILVER GLOBEX SEP 15 14.670 0.060 14.610
SILVER GLOBEX NOV 15 0.000 0.000 0.000
SILVER GLOBEX DEC 15 14.690 0.039 14.651
SILVER GLOBEX JAN 16 14.670 0.005 14.665
SILVER GLOBEX MAR 16 14.735 0.038 14.697
SILVER GLOBEX MAY 16 14.720 -0.006 14.726
SILVER GLOBEX JUL 16 14.880 0.125 14.755
SILVER GLOBEX SEP 16 15.100 0.318 14.782
SILVER GLOBEX DEC 16 14.830 0.007 14.823
The Futures prices are in rough agreement with the Doc,
Silver, for example, may bottom in January 2016.
And futures are not predicting a sudden rise after bottoming.
Thanks for the post CFS – Cash For Silver.
The Table posted almost right, so here is Gold:
Future name
GOLD GLOBEX SEP 15 1,135.9 -1.3 1,137.2
GOLD GLOBEX OCT 15 1,136.8 -1.1 1,137.9
GOLD GLOBEX NOV 15 0.0 0.0 0.0
GOLD GLOBEX DEC 15 1,137.1 -1.2 1,138.3
GOLD GLOBEX FEB 16 1,138.0 -1.3 1,139.3
GOLD GLOBEX APR 16 1,141.5 1.2 1,140.3
GOLD GLOBEX JUN 16 1,145.0 3.6 1,141.4
GOLD GLOBEX AUG 16 1,143.0 0.5 1,142.5
GOLD GLOBEX OCT 16 1,141.8 -2.0 1,143.8
Note that gold is expected to smoothly and slowly increase……slightly different from silver.
Looks like both the dollar and euro might be going to post inside reversals tomorrow.
Sugar futures pretty much hit bottom at 10.13 and so we will see if it launches or not soon enough. Up a couple percent off a minor double bottom already.
A L; the daily charts are showing the possibility of a short term rally while the weekly charts still show lower prices at this time.
Are you using Stockcharts Doc?
The S&P Energy Sector Bullish Percent Index just hit zero for the first time since 2008:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24BPENER&p=W&yr=8&mn=0&dy=0&id=p75455743502
The S&P Materials Sector Bullish Percent Index is almost zero:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24BPMATE&p=W&yr=8&mn=0&dy=0&id=p31946491302
At 22, the bullish percent for the S&P 500 is the lowest it’s been since 2011:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24BPSPX&p=W&yr=8&mn=0&dy=0&id=p12769499674
And that was after a similar drop in magnitude on the S&P at that time. I almost feel vindicated that I believe the lows are already in. Notice if you look back at the S&P at that time that it took a couple months to build a base and put in a double bottom. Only time will tell if that repeats but if it does there won’t be a September / October crash. And that suits me….there are far too many calling for doom in that time frame for my liking.
Holy Crow Batman….that has got to be a buy signal. Thanks Matthew. I did not know it was quite that bad. Btw, how are you feeling about silver? Maybe its just me but to my eyes both metals are just reloading for a rise that could come at any time. Silver looks better here than gold but both should move up.
I think the bears are going to try to run the stops by taking out the recent low and even the December 1st low. I do not consider this action to be bearish though. I agree that silver is more appealing and that both should go up.
Here’s a couple of views of silver:
Daily:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$SILVER&p=D&yr=0&mn=11&dy=7&id=p59184289469&a=421947343&listNum=1
We have a little Fibonacci Fan support coming in at about $13.60 this week if $14.15 should fail to hold:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24SILVER&p=W&yr=6&mn=9&dy=0&id=p17132185197&a=411220680
It already happened, silver is now below the 12/01/14 low. Good times. 🙂
To me, silver is one hell of a bargain at the current level. It closed the month of January, 1983 at $14.21 and now we can buy it for $14 and change in puny 2015 dollars. Btw, that was the highest monthly close for the next 24 years, 1 month.
I agree.
Here is an interesting story from Zerohedge:
China has sold off 15% (or more) of its US Treasuries in the past 6 to 8 months. That is abut 206 billion. So basically they are burning through their dry powder to keep their economy afloat and balance all the demands and currency pressures. We all wondered what might happen the day this started….and now we get to puzzle over what comes next if the torrid pace of selling (dumping) continues.
Devaluation Stunner: China Has Dumped $100 Billion In Treasurys In The Past Two Weeks — ZH
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-25/devaluation-stunner-china-has-dumped-100-billion-treasurys-past-two-weeks
Then, one has to ask who is going to pick up the slack in purchasing treasuries as we go forward and if China continues to unload treasuries.
Exactly Doc. We can just look at Japan for insights. When the government treasury, pension funds, banks and Central Bank have bought up all the domestically issued debt then the default falls only on its own citizens in the end. And that is where we are headed. As Ambrose Evans Pritchard has said many times in the past; the Bank of Japan could take all those chits and put them in a big pile and burn them because it all becomes irrelevant when all debt must be paid by the taxpayer back to themselves. Its a curious exercise in how obligations are wiped out but none of it comes without pain. Zerohedge notes that China can keep up this level of selling for 18 months before their hoard of US Treasury paper is all gone. But they can only spend it once. I have mentioned this so many times in the past it is tiring. After that we get down to real money and collateral. You either have some or you don’t. We will see soon enough who is swimming without shorts!
Love these market wraps! Thank you!
Just goes to show you what a really crappy investment silver has been.
37 years later it’s still the same price.
Boy what a disaster.
You call it a bargain
I call it the worst investment ever.
You talk about puny dollars buying it
Do you have any idea how much the price of other assets have multiplied since 1983
Anyone who bought silver was the biggest loser
Once again Matthew you make my point
If you don’t have a clue when to buy and when to sell, good luck with ANY investment. You’re the loser, not the asset.
You could have bought all the silver you wanted to for less than $5 just 13 years ago and made up to ten times your money OR you could have simply held and you’d STILL be up nearly three-fold.
Even though the Dow happened to be at the bottom of a cyclical bear market that resulted in a 40% decline 13 years ago, it is currently just a double, at best, and way behind silver.
Yes, the 2015 dollar is puny compared to the 1983 dollar. Btw, 1983 was 32 years ago not 37.
“Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.”
– Albert Einstein
You are being very irritating Matthew. This makes three times in one day I am in agreement with you.
It depends on when you buy and sell. Silver has been used as currency for thousand years so the world accumulated large amount of above ground silver. The huge short position in silver will result in persistent low prices below production cost. Even silver price returns to old price of 32 years ago, the production cost does not. The cost went from 2 dollar to 20. This persistent loss by silver miners will discourage production and the above ground stock keeps getting burnt out. The chance of sudden death is getting higher. It is very rare for price below the cost for long period of time for commodities, especially for a metal as useful as silver. Holding a position is silver for a long enough time, you will hit a spike and you can profit from it.
Of course I agree with you Lawrence about Silver. I just bought another 10 kilos at under $500 a kilo.
Nice.
i believe that the PPT will have learnt the lessons of previous days and this time will succeed at propping up the market to achieve a slow bear market.
Just what percentage of the market they will end up owning, I don’t know, but would estimate around 35% to 40%.
The main problem for the PPT is not the stockmarket, but the bond and treasury market.
Gold and silver option expiry today…Sept is an active month, Thurs follow thru action is a much better read to the true trend…Silver gave the hint gold and the miners were about to roll over with resistance at $15.50 holding, short off that action
Thanks, i forgot about it.
Pretty erratic behavior on the US conventional markets as The PPT attempts to liquefy them. Instead of hearing about fortunes being made on the markets we are now hearing about fortunes being lost, more people are getting a glimpse of reality and that makes The Fed’s job harder.
Economy as large as US can not survive on virtual economy like stock market alone. The emphasis should be shifted to real economy instead of trying to create serial bubbles.
Agreed! DT
Silver is looking fine to me:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=SLV&p=D&yr=0&mn=9&dy=0&id=p66192785520&a=399402872
lol, silver has looked fine to you for years! another lower low, if this was the us$ or dow you’d be suggesting look out below, thanks for the giggles
I’m up today and each of the last three days; how about you, original ju-joke?
Matty your showing Big Al’s site no respect, name calling just because a fellow on the ball chartist called you out, poor taste laddy
Do you think you’re moronic comments are better than name-calling?
I said silver looks fine as in the ACTION looks fine. I expected this new low and mentioned it last night. Are you saying it’s a short here? And how do you know what I or anyone else here is doing if you don’t ASK?
You’re a feral useless eater in my book.
“Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance.”
– Albert Einstein
Feds Dudley just cooled any Sept rate hike suggestion, yen popping off Q&E comments, gold will pop with yen
Matthew,
You continue to prove my point the more you speak.
Again you are very wrong.
First of all you choose the 1983 date, NOT ME.
Then you say good luck with any asset if don’t know when to buy and sell.
Any asset? really?
Let’s stay on that thought.
Let’s take housing.
Are you saying we are supposed to be buying and selling houses, and trading them like stocks?
This is patently absurd.
People invest in housing, and in addition to many other benefits, reap long term capital appreciation that blew away silver.
If you bought a house in 1983, that asset has multiplied 8,10,12,16,20 times its value.
Silver is flat since 1983.
Either in your mind housing is not one of your any assets, or we are suppose to be trading it.
Seems to me you didn’t need to know when to buy and sell real estate.
Let’s take stocks.
What was the DOW IN 1983?
About a 1000
What is it today?
About 16000
A 16 fold increase
Silver is flat.
You didn’t have to know when to buy and sell the DOW.
You just needed to buy the DOW, JUST LIKE HOUSING.
No Matthew
It not about knowing when to buy and sell an asset.
ITS ABOUT BUYING THE RIGHT ASSET.
You keep talking and you keep putting your foot in your mouth.
Listen up folks…
If you are going to speculate in silver then you need to know when to buy and sell it
That’s what Matthew is saying
Good luck with that
Or you can invest in real estate and stocks and sit back and let the asset do the work for you.
Keep speaking Matthew, I could use a good laugh.
Why don’t you grow up and admit defeat?
Since you are famous for quotes, let’s try this one on…
Proverbs 23:9
Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Don’t waste your time, Matty has never been wrong about anything, he knows everything about everything, like Dr Phil, lol
James (the P. Phil) -You’re clueless and unteachable. Guys like you have to keep comments very short or I won’t bother with them.
Matthew,
Your attention span is obviously very short
Since you have no logical rebuttal you resort to personal attacks.
You are the clueless and unteachable one.
Short enough for you to grasp?
Yup, thanks.
I enjoy Fat Men singing every day!