Exactly; it is fiat paper frauds that require blind faith. Gold appeals to reasonable people because its utility comes from its properties not from coercive government/gullible sheeple.

Both paper and gold fluctuate in value but paper does so within a long-term down-trending channel while the opposite is the case for gold.

Fiat bugs have done better, 1000%+
They collect it after real estate deals, or use fiat to buy google shares etc, cant even buy a coffee with gold lol

One of the biggest frauds of the past 40 years has been that promoted by the gold bugs. Gold as an investment has been a complete disaster. Even today, almost 40 years after the bubble top in 1981, gold has still been unable to exceed its old highs in inflation adjusted terms. So guys who bought back then are STILL underwater as incredible as that may sound. Gold is in fact in a loss position at spot price and it is expected to remain there for a considerable period of time yet, if not for the rest of our lives. Actually, the losses are much worse when you calculate the premiums that were paid and add in the fact you did not have the use of that money all these years as it was tied up in lumps of stone age Neanderthal metal. You were far better off buying chickens than gold back then…..at least those chickens laid an egg almost every day.

LOL!!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 😉

Lot’s of funny stuff there, Bird. I’ll just point out that the Dow is currently below its ’29, ’66, and ’99/’00 bubble tops in inflation adjusted terms and that gold has smoke stocks and bonds since 2000 – despite the last four+ years.

Everything looks like a “fraud” to a dumbshit.

“LOL”

Just giving folks a few of the facts Matthew. That’s something you will NEVER do in your daily hump and pump posts talking up the virtues of your little golden God. And one of those facts is that gold has been a loser for 40 years.

And it is still losing. Just wait until we retest the lows again. Big belly laughs there.

Cry over it all you want buddy. But you can’t make it better.

So think about that people (and this comment is general and directed to everyone). Gold today at 1230 dollars is still only half what it was worth (inflation adjusted) at the very top of the bubble prices in 1981………HALF for crying out loud.

So despite the games Matthew is playing with words in his post above (which incidentally manages to totally evade what I was talking about while creating an unrelated argument), gold has performed VERY poorly.

Just by way of comparison, the DOW was 1000 in 1981.

It hit 18,000 this year even as gold lost 50% of its value in the same time period. What would you *really* have preferred if you had foreknowledge or could turn the clock back on time?

An investment that had actual dividends and paid you back an average of 18 times your original investment or one that lost half its value in the same time period? Hopefully that answer will be more than sufficient to explain why gold bugs are such retards.

PS Chart boy….none of us were alive in 1929 and most were children in the early 60’s so those comparisons of yours are utterly worthless except as history anecdotes. The ONLY time period that matters to those of us who are adults is our real-life investment period beginning from when we first got started buying and selling.

We only live one life buddy…..

And 40 years is a loooooonnng time in that lifespan to get zero return, let alone absorb a massive unrecoverable loss that some people here are still carrying to this very day.

Its why I keep pointing out that you are the WORST chart guy I have ever known.

That’s ok Bird, I’d probably be just as angry if I were as confused as you are.

We seem to have just gotten a bounce up and are back on our way down.
Yesterday? Day before? Even I saw the obvious oportunity to short, I dont usually as odds are really against (risk/reward) but this time it was a no brainer, so, I get to my broker and NOPE!!! offline again.
Peak to trough was 10%
Only person I ever hear mention that risk is Rickards, geez a guy could get wiped out fast if ya needed to sell and the broker was offline.

Anyway, Bird, how far down you figure we going, I still figure about $1000.
Obviously guessing I know nothing.
I do think we should be heading back up after the doldrums, we might not of course, but I kinda think that way.
If we dont, we really could be looking at $7-$400.

You have any “crystal ball” opinions?

Oh, we have some big buying,Soros and funds, but we also are seeing selling in China.
If they get into a resecion scenario, alot of people will sell to pay bills etc
No telling how much could get sold.
Enough to drive price down maybe.

b – Jim Sinclair has been emphatic about the risk of brokers, with his ‘GOTS’ — ‘Get out of the system’. He recommends at least holding shares through direct registration, if not paper certificates (mostly no longer available, I think), rather than in ‘Street Name’ via ‘Cede and Company’ (if I remember the name correctly–what a joke, the name). This all reached a fever pitch after MF Global, of course.

Hey, your right GH, I tottally forgot about J Sinclair.

Probly because I stopped reading him and that Holter fellow.
No need, according to them golds going to “who knows how high” doesnt change so why bother? lol

I just remembered, when I first decided to get into PMs as a % of investment allocation and started researching, I emailed J Sinclair and asked him if he thought it wise to go 100% PMs, he answered with a resounding no.
I forget exactly but if I recall correctly his recommended allocation was similar to J Turk, 5-10% physical.

GH – I held a lot of certificates through the crash of 2008 but not now. Some risks are greater than ever but they are different than those we faced prior to ’08. The central planners gave themselves a lot of new powers as a result of that crisis that make a repeat even more unlikely than it already was.

Now thats a differant thought Mathew, most Ive been reading are saying the chances of a complete shut down are greater than 08.
How do you figure the chances have decreased?

B, they can and will use extraordinary measures more easily now than ever. Even those who are smart enough to care about such things have become desensitized to the central planners’ actions over the last eight years so more of the same but on a much larger scale will not be a problem legally or politically.

The biggest risk at this point is finding yourself on the wrong side of the biggest wealth transfer in history.

I expect a 100% retrace in price back to the lows, b.

That has been my position repeated here on this site many, many times already. We are NOT in a new gold bull market. That’s just bullshit from the promoters. We are factually still in a secular bear so best be careful listening to the 99% of them who are claiming (screeching) we are already there when the charts still hove NOT confirmed their claim.

That does not mean you should not buy miners and play the bounces between here and there. Some of those stocks are moving better than 15 and 20 percent in a day so this is the candy season.

Just know when to take some profit or you might end up road-kill along with the rest.

Well, I actually agree w/you all. I’m just saying though that gold can go down, both for lying/cheating/stealing/manipulation reasons, and for supply/demand reasons, and for fear/greed reasons, plus more I’m sure. What is the reason it’s been down lately? I’m guessing it’s traders locking in profits, but I have NO IDEA, because I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING. Ref Bob’s book! It’s all true.

So, I do think that gold is money, because that’s what we humans chose. And it’s a great choice. And as you say it’s worked, too, for 1000’s of years. Paper fiat money was a good design idea when it was backed by gold, but turned into a lie and a cheat when it wasn’t. Fractional reserve made it 1000X worse.

In a desert, I’d rather have water than gold. In a war, I’d rather have friends and ammo and a medic, than gold. In this crazy fiat currency world, I’d rather have gold than fiat.

Just I try to not become a believer out of any of this. Not become too emotional. What, are we expecting bankers to suddenly repent, return their plunder, pass laws to put us back on the gold standard again? Ain’t going to happen, ever. Why? Because we’re on earth and not in heaven.

Anyways, I hope for the good, but expect evil, every time. And plan for it. But even gold we can’t take with us after we go, so to me #1 is family, and then health.

“I’m just saying though that gold can go down” — So who thinks gold can’t go down? Manipulation has been proved. One can believe there is manipulation and still recognize that gold can go down for other reasons. Who on this site says gold can’t go down?

“In a desert, I’d rather have water than gold. In a war, I’d rather have friends and ammo and a medic, than gold.” Can you identify anyone who would disagree with this?

My point is, there are certain commentators (not necessarily BiT) constantly attacking ‘gold bugs’ as if there are some who disagree with these common sense points of view. But I never hear from these gold bugs, at least not on this site. So it’s strange to me the energy spent attacking these straw men.

Likewise, to believe that hard-asset backed currency is superior to fiat currency does not mean one cannot recognize that there are times when fiat currencies out-perform hard assets.

“The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” F. Scott Fitzgerald

Finally, “One of the biggest frauds of the past 40 years has been that promoted by the gold bugs.” Oh, would that be bigger than fraud that led to the 2008 financial crisis? Than the fraud that has had the US at war almost constantly for the past 120 years? Than the fraud of these new trade agreements that destroy sacrifice national sovereignty to multinational corporations? I would think there are more worthy opponents than these gold bugs that apparently don’t have enough common sense to understand that gold is not the be-all end-all that can never go down.

Yes GH, the gold promoters supported by the bugs are behind perpetrating a fraud on the general public who does not have much insight into gold markets. They constantly spin facts to create an information stream that bare-faced asserts gold is a superior investment.

For those who bought and held the last 4 decades, gold has FACTUALLY been a very poor investment versus just about every single asset class you can name since gold peaked in 1981. Even simple interest on a savings account at your local bank outperformed gold over those years and that’s saying a lot.

And gold has been a very poor performer even since its feeble peaking action in 2011 that could just barely muster a genuine parabolic move. Gold was UNABLE to even exceed its 1981 highs in inflation adjusted terms.

That is VERY bad news in the big picture. It does not get worse actually.

The market expected gold to reach 2400 dollars at a very minimum during 2011. That would have evened the score card had it happened and meant gold did indeed compete as an inflation hedge.

But gold failed at the 1900 dollar mark and that is why so many people insist to this day that golds bull market must still intact. They have simply been unable to accept that gold posted a lower low on the longest term charts (inflation adjusted). We are talking epic denial here.

It is time for the bugs and promoters to just admit they are wrong.

But instead of accepting that its the market that is correct and they are all both ignorant and wrong, they instead launched into this complicated set of theories that somehow the Central Banks of the world were in a price suppression scheme to cheat gold of its rightful dues and therefore to cheat gold buyers of their profits and hedge.

It is so stupid it defies comprehension. Sorry man, but the market is ALWAYS correct. And the market says gold is not worth a penny more than 1217 dollars this morning which is a far cry from the 2400 dollars the promoters insist it is worth.