Weekend Show Preview in which we continue our discussion of events in The Middle East

Previewed here in the interest of getting a jump on comments instead of leaving it to Saturday.

Comments:
  1. On January 9, 2020 at 6:15 pm,
    CFS says:
  2. On January 9, 2020 at 6:23 pm,
    CFS says:

    Here are the latest Suicide reporting and prevention reports:

    https://www.americashealthrankings.org/explore/annual/measure/Suicide/state/ALL

    • On January 10, 2020 at 2:52 am,
      Robert Moriarty says:

      CFS:
      Your comments on Vet suicide are well taken.

      Back to the Middle East here is a copy of what I wrote on a previous day that may have been skipped.

      Jim M:
      Yes I am angry. I am angry at the thousands of American kids who died for Israel in meaningless wars while those who could have stood up and said that it was wrong did nothing.

      If you think you have done such a wonderful job for 20 years, you really owe it to yourself to move to Afghanistan or Iraq or Libya. Feel free to tell them what a wonderful job you did for Israel. They will be thrilled to hear it.

      We only have a few voices who stand up and for certain you are not in that group. Here is the best. You absolutely could learn from her. She is defending the Constitution. You aren’t.

      Tulsi Gabbard: Wake Up And Smell Our $6.4 Trillion Wars

      https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-is-tulsi-the-only-democrat-who-cares-about-our-wars/

      • On January 10, 2020 at 10:38 am,
        b says:

        What!?!
        I’m not the only person that agrees with Tulsi around here??

        • On January 10, 2020 at 11:31 am,
          cfs says:

          Tulsi Gabbard seems to toe the Democrat Party LineL
          she believe in a “living wage”, although that seems for Democrats to mean a guaranteed minimum income regardless of actual work or no work.
          She believes in universal healthcare.
          Shr has not spoken out against foreign aid, as far as I know.
          She essential aligns totally with Bernie Sanders……an extreme left position.
          She’s easier on the eyes and ears than Bernie, but otherwise not much different.
          Am I mistaken ?

          • On January 10, 2020 at 12:00 pm,
            b says:

            I would imagine she has no choice but to side with the dems on some issues.

            The point of Tulsi is she exposes the corruption of the dems and is against these endless wars, so, I cant see her as totally a go along to get along individual.

            She at least understands that not spending billions on the war machine would pay for the infrastructure health care etc.

            I think she needs some understanding of debt etc, but other than ron paul who doesnt?

            Also, she may be keeping quiet on the issue as the wars and corruption are the main issues.

            In any case, its already been decided she goes nowhere.
            I just happen to think preventing nuclear war is comparatively important.

          • On January 11, 2020 at 10:52 am,
            Big Al says:

            Preventing nuclear was in extremely important, b!

  3. On January 9, 2020 at 6:27 pm,
    CFS says:
    • On January 9, 2020 at 7:49 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      interesting numbers……..
      Key Findings
      • There were more than 6,000 Veteran suicides each year from 2008 to 2016. (Page 4)
      • From 2005 to 2016, Veteran and non-Veteran adult suicide rates increased 25.9 percent and
      20.6 percent, respectively. From 2015 to 2016, Veteran suicide rates decreased from 30.5 per
      100,000 population to 30.1 per 100,000 population. (Page 5)
      • In 2016, the suicide rate was 1.5 times greater for Veterans than for non-Veteran adults, after
      adjusting for age and gender. (Page 5)
      • In 2016, 69.4 percent of Veteran suicides resulted from a firearm injury. In comparison, among
      U.S. non-Veteran adults

      • On January 10, 2020 at 6:14 am,
        Robert Moriarty says:

        I don’t think anyone on this board has ever discussed the difference between how soldiers served during wars. Contrary to what most people think, the vast majority of time in combat is spent doing nothing. In Vietnam up to 90% of the troops were support troops in one form or another. Only 10% were the actual combat infantry who did the majority of the killing and the dying. Army and Air Force served 12 month terms, Marines served 13 months. Some but not that many would eventually serve two tours. If you went in 1965, you could expect to go back in 68 or 69.

        Compare that to the Forever Wars of today where people were serving 15 month tours, there was no safe haven, truck drivers were as likely to die as infantry. In Vietnam 10,000 aircraft were shot down in the Forever Wars, few aviation people died. But army and Marines and Air Force were right back there in country 6-12 months later. I have talked to people who did 3-4-5 tours. In my opinion we have destroyed the military. Certainly the divorce rate has skyrocketed and children never get to know their parents serving overseas.

        The obvious solution is to fight wars only where the US is better off and that includes none of the Forever Wars. If troops don’t get PTSD or killed by an IED, they are better off, naturally.

        I support all wars that defend the US. And no other.

        • On January 10, 2020 at 10:24 am,
          Silverdollar says:

          Bob:
          Something you didn’t mention about tours was that many if not most officers got a tour of 6 months. Speaking of the Army and above the Lts. They had more officers than were necessary and they wanted to make sure all had there chance to get some combat time on their record for promotion sake.
          Another memory from 1966,1968 is that Dog Patch was on the West side of the Danang airstrip. You mentioned once about being shot at from there. I did drink a few beers (33) in Dogpatch. Slept about a mile & 1/2 to the west in a compound of RMK-BRJ workers. Left Vietnam on orders from my draft board and returned in ’68. Then I was stationed in AnKhe with the 1st. Air Cav.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 10:49 am,
            Robert Moriarty says:

            SD:

            Naw, Dogpatch was south of the base. The west side was the AF and there wasn’t much out there. We were in the hangers right in the SE corner and you could walk into Dogpatch and get your weed. I think the runways were 17 and 35 and when I took fire on the first night mission I was taking off to the south.

            I wondered why they were shooting at me. All I was doing was carrying 10-500 pound bombs and they acted like they wanted to kill me.

            It was a stupid war.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 11:20 am,
            cfs says:

            The Vietnam war, as fought, was a stupid war.
            In my opinion, if a war is worth fighting (and I am not saying the Vietnam war was worth fighting) the war should be fought in such a way as to win.
            The very fact that the US fought the Vietnam NOT TO WIN indicates that it was not worth fighting. Thanks for your service, Mr. Moriarty, but I fail to see the point of fighting the Vietnam war.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 12:12 pm,
            Robert Moriarty says:

            CFS;

            Saying that Vietnam was not fought to win is a bit of an insult to everyone who fought there. We did indeed fight to win and given the weapons we had available such as squadrons of B-52 and far more bombs than were dropped during WW II, the soldiers fought to win and 58,000 died fighting a war where you couldn’t even define victory. But if you knew the casualties of the chopper crews and the grunts you would not conclude we didn’t fight to win. I saw numbers from the HQMC that showed every Marine grunt was only shot at three times in the war but hit twice.

            We lost because there was no path to victory. We can and did kill millions of civilians and NVA but killing people has nothing to do with winning wars.

          • On January 11, 2020 at 10:50 am,
            Big Al says:

            My only comment to you is “thanks for your opinion”

          • On January 10, 2020 at 12:34 pm,
            cfs says:

            I fully believe you may believe that American forces did their best.
            I too believe, they did the best they could within the constraints placed on the military by politicians.
            But with respect, Mr Moriarty, we did not fight in Vietnam to win, given the support of China, as with Korea, we were never going to win a conventional war.
            B

          • On January 10, 2020 at 12:48 pm,
            CFS says:

            I could not agree more that “winning” a war is not about killing people.

            “Winning” a war means it is necessary to persuade the leadership of those in charge on the opposing side that is more painful to continue fighting than to cease fighting and yield to our victory.
            It has always been so, from the dawn of time. It matters not whether a fight is at the level of individuals or at the level of countries, or at the level of alliances of many countries.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 1:20 pm,
            cfs says:

            How many years have I been decrying the intolerance of Islam?

            Hate is indeed taught. I would guess it stems most commonly from a perception of injustice. Again, it matters not whether the perception is justified or not. It matter only that the perception exists.

            The solution, then, is how to end the belief of injustice.. Therein lies the difficulty.
            The usual choices are between appeasement or fear.
            One can use diplomatic negotiations to give something to compensate for the injustice,
            or one can instill a belief that to try to achieve justice through fighting is impossible.
            Here religious wars tend to be the most problematic. Religion is based more on faith than on logic. It is difficult to negotiate over issues of faith, wherein a value system may be distorted to place death higher than life. It is necessary to find something of high enough value to compete against faith.

        • On January 10, 2020 at 10:57 am,
          Jim M says:

          Me too, but how you define defending the US is the question. Where does hate come from? It is taught. Do we train our children to hate? Do Arabs and Iranians?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RosMQMOejBM

          https://clarionproject.org/europol-isis-training-children-be-next-generation-fighters/

          https://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-kid-summer-camp-2016-8

          No, we don’t. Why do the theocrats do it in the Middle East? For power, and proaganda.

          Do our people have a choice in our politics? Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, leftists and conservatives have a say in the US, Europe, and Israel.

          How about in Iran, Syria, Russia, China?

          Are you the product of a success leftist information campaign to say all things are OK except here, are bad for being defenders of individual rights and free choice?

          Or should we all just think like you?

          Where did you learn to hate Jews and Israel? Or is this just your educated, enlightened thinking?

          I don’t like hate, I don’t like war, but someone must stand against those that foment hate and war.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 1:24 pm,
            cfs says:

            Sorry, I partly answered above, tried to move the answer down, and it posted before I completed it.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 1:50 pm,
            cfs says:

            People in power always fight for power; propaganda is to aid continuation of power or to increase power.

            PLease understand, Jim, I am not against our military. I believe in peace through strength.
            I do not believe kin Neville Chamberlain’s approach, more a walk softly but carry a big stick approach.
            It may not be possible to win against Islam until a formation occurs in the religion.

            Am I a product of a successful leftist….?
            No way. Big Al can fill you in, perhaps.
            For decades I kept homes in both England and the U.S., bouncing back and forth while travelling the world. (I’ve been retired approx 30 years.) I could have finally settled in either the UK or the US, and probably would be faced with a decision about now, except my home in England was burglarized and then torched to eliminate fingerprints a couple of years ago.
            I am in no way anti-military, just grateful there are some that choose to serve and provide a strong defense.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 1:54 pm,
            cfs says:

            oops
            formation > reformation

          • On January 11, 2020 at 1:44 am,
            Robert Moriarty says:

            Jim M:

            Israel threatened everyone in the region in the Yinon Plan in 1982, again in the “Clean Break” in 1996, the same Zionist team then formed the PNAC and threatened the neighborhood on behalf of Israel in 2000 and the DOD planned attacks on seven countries in five years in 2001.

            Like the people in those seven countries, I took all these plans seriously. I believe Israel wanted to destroy the Middle East because they said so.

            I am neutral on all religions. Jews and no different than Catholics or Mormon or Muslims. All of them believe some pretty goofy stuff and at one time or another have done some evil things. I will say that I am astonished at how Americans are no spring loaded to thinking war is good and peace is bad. When the hell did that happen?

            If a country has been advocating war, destruction and hate since 1982 and it is in writing and we have followed it like a flight plan, how do you support it?

            It is not my “educated, enlightened thinking” (it’s interesting that you want to make that an insult) that leads me to believe that Israel is at the center of all that is going on in the Middle East. It is my ability to read what is right in front of me.

            Your ability to avoid discussion of facts is remarkable. Wesley Clark reported and I believe him that the DOD planned attacks on seven countries and then we have attacked all seven countries. How is their willingness to defend their own country against unprovoked and illegal wars of aggression somehow terrorism?

            If we planned an attack on Iran in 2001 or before, what difference does it make what they did after 2001? Clearly it is self defense. The plan to whack Soleimani was part and parcel of the 2001 attack on Iran, not due to anything he did.

        • On January 10, 2020 at 11:13 am,
          CFS says:

          In my opinion, the primary problem with the VA statistics, is that if Mr. Moriarty were to commit suicide tomorrow, it would be counted as a veteran suicide.
          However, if Mr. Moriarty were to commit suicide, who, in their right minds, think it was related to military service ?
          It simply would not be.
          THIS MAKEs THE NUMBERS QUOTED BY THE VETERANS ADMINISTRATION AS DECEPTIVE IN MEANING.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 4:19 pm,
            Jim M says:

            CFS, that was a response to Robert – not you – it showed up late because Al had to proxy it. I appreciate your information and expertise, and you make valid comments often.
            Robert makes a lot of strong accusations against me as often – but I suppose the dialogue provides others a variable view.

  4. On January 9, 2020 at 6:54 pm,
    CFS says:

    Statistically one has to be VERY CAREFUL.

    First, the numbers are NOT high, compared to differences based on gender, age, location or state in which suicide occurs, or mode chosen for death.

    Second, a fire-arm is often the choice of suicide mode for veterans. (Twice as frequent as for civilians.) A shot to the head rarely leaves opportunity for changing mind or for intervention,post attempt, whereas taking pills, slashing wrists, etc. does provide opportunity for post attempt intervention.
    Third. For active military suicides the age profile is much distorted compared to non-military.

    I was expecting a large difference between military suicides and general public.
    It is higher for military. It is increasing, but so is general public suicide.
    I don’t want to see any suicide, but….
    Given the significant disruption to normal life, loss of friends, change of environment, etc. (On entering service and on leaving service….obvious stressors) it is not clear to me there really is that great a problem, after statistical correction for age, sex, etc.

    Further, I wish to make one extra comment: I have seen a lot of anecdotal evidence in the last two decades that several anti-depression drugs have correlations with both increased suicide rates and violence to other members of society.
    Here statistics are almost uninterpretable, because correlation does not mean causation.
    One cannot both give and not give a drug to the same person for a comparison of with and without medication and numbers are low for statistical analysis.

  5. On January 9, 2020 at 7:20 pm,
    cfs says:

    Specifically, SSRI medication seems to correlate with added incidence of violence after ending medication.

  6. On January 9, 2020 at 7:36 pm,
    OOTB Jerry says:

    Thanks to John K……….for bring the subject up for discussion……….
    On January 9, 2020 at 10:38 am,
    John Kruschke says:
    According to published statistics, over 138,000 U S Military personnel have committed suicide since 2001.At what point does this number enter the discussion?

    Reply to this comment

    • On January 9, 2020 at 7:38 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      bringing

    • On January 9, 2020 at 8:44 pm,
      CFS says:

      OOTB Jerry, I don’t trust that number.

      Go to:
      https://www.dspo.mil/Portals/113/Documents/QSR_CY2018_Q4.pdf Attatchment A
      and look at the tables….The totals per year are running 270 to 325 per year.
      18 years times 300 (about a high average number) = 5,400
      Nothing close to 138,000.
      I just cannot get close to 138,000 unless say someone who served in WWII and then kills himself at agr 95 is counted as a military suicide. Or someone who served in Vietnam commits suicide in his 60s, 30 years after leaving the military. And even then I can’t get up to 138,000.
      Indeed, the total of all suicides in the U.S. during those 18 years is slightly less than 800,000, and the ex-military suicide rate is typically slightly less than 1.5 times the non-military suicide rate.
      The numbers don’t compute.
      I will go further…..I could not find the number 138,000 and I believe that number is pure distorted BULLSHIT in terms of military service related suicide.

      • On January 9, 2020 at 9:18 pm,
        CFS says:

        I take the bullshit statement back, but it all is in the fine print.
        The implication of the Veterans Administration is that military life is stressful because of the large number of suicides.
        But there are a lot of veterans and the numbers quoted by the VA actually have little to do with military service. Just a lot of Americans alive today have served in the military.

        The bottom line is that if you serve in the military you are about 50% more probable to commit suicide than if you don’t serve.

        Now the real question: is that due to the personality of those volunteering, or is it due to the effects of military service? (Time for me to stop typing, because I have no idea.)

  7. On January 9, 2020 at 8:01 pm,
    b says:

    Curious human trait, being so loyal to a leadership that considers people fodder.
    Suicides are probably considered a bonus, no further vet benefits required.

  8. On January 9, 2020 at 8:03 pm,
    cfs says:

    I know many of the people in this forum assume women in Iran have always worn the Hijab or Head-scarf. Lest you forget, it was NOT as common under the enlightened rule of the Shah, who, although a dictator, was not a theocrat. The Iranian revolution occurred in February 1979, and immediately imposed compulsorary wearing of the Hijab.
    This was the response from the women:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqrPoPYZfc0

  9. On January 9, 2020 at 9:05 pm,
    cfs says:

    6,000 veterans suicides per year appears to be a high number, but most of those deaths are un-related to military service.
    13.4% of all male living Americans have military service, according to the VA.
    1.6% of all living females.

    Now I’m beginning to understand how the VA is not lying, but also not really giving a true impression.

  10. On January 9, 2020 at 10:08 pm,
    Chartster says:

    And they are authentic with the [moronic] libtardness, regarding anything normal. Which always puts them in ‘ that corner’.
    Fun.

  11. On January 10, 2020 at 3:33 am,
    cfs says:
  12. On January 10, 2020 at 4:03 am,
    mark matia says:

    Your guest said “these young men are ruined” when they come back from war and we should do something to help them, however the obvious solution that is totally lost on most Americans is to end these useless wars. Sorry to hear about your friend Al, but the real tragedy is that he and the other US military personnel should never have been there just like the men and women that are deployed to the middle east. These wars perpetrated by our military are evil and the evidence is becoming more obvious for those that care to look.

    • On January 10, 2020 at 12:01 pm,
      cfs says:

      I wonder if military service is as negative as often portrayed.

      Do men come back “ruined” ? Clearly some do,,,,,as evindence by slightly higher suicide rate.

      But others come back as leaders of society. Trained in some technical trade. With backbone and organizational skills.
      I know from anecdotal experience/observation , on average, from businesses of relatives, veterans often make better employees.
      Better organized , self-motivated and responsible people.

      • On January 10, 2020 at 12:24 pm,
        mark matia says:

        The suicide rate for veterans is substantially higher then non-veteran adults – 1.5 times greater; and the rate for younger veterans age 18-34 also increased substantially. There is a clear problem within the military and the basis of this problem is sending young men and women across the globe to fight unnecessary and illicit wars.

        • On January 10, 2020 at 4:30 pm,
          Jim M says:

          I teach suicide prevention for American Federation for Suicide Prevention “Talk Saves Lives” program
          – CFS is right, the military has a problem, but it is a significantly growing problem in society. 2d leading cause of death for youth behind accidents – 10th overall leading cause of death in the general pop.

          A much higher percentage of the population served in WWII, for long duration combat operations, we did not have a suicide problem near what we have today.

          It is something much more sinister in society, maybe the breakdown of faith, family, culture, identity, gender, civility and friendship. Most importantly, a lack of faith in our future and no sense of purpose.

          • On January 10, 2020 at 9:40 pm,
            Buzz says:

            Spot on.

          • On January 11, 2020 at 10:39 am,
            Big Al says:

            Thanks for the comment, Buzz and also thank you for being polite.

          • On January 11, 2020 at 10:45 am,
            Big Al says:

            Great comment, Jim!

    • On January 10, 2020 at 11:43 am,
      Matthew says:

      Tom hits the nail on the head with his characterization of Trump. He is most definitely not a “unique evil” which is what makes pro-Hillary leftists so disgusting. Overall, Hillary would’ve been worse since her foreign policy would’ve been more aggressive while her domestic policies would’ve have been worse for the economy and individual rights/freedoms.

  13. On January 10, 2020 at 9:04 am,
    cfs says:
  14. On January 10, 2020 at 11:45 am,
    cfs says:
  15. On January 10, 2020 at 11:53 am,
    cfs says:

    Pompeo’s speech this morning seemed to indicate that he wants airlines not to fly to Tehran.
    Is that a ratcheting up of sanctions?

  16. On January 10, 2020 at 12:09 pm,
    cfs says:

    New sanctions against Iran

    https://youtu.be/3aZSAhEcuT4?t=83

  17. On January 10, 2020 at 2:57 pm,
    cfs says:

    Judicial Watch demonstrating that the Deep State is still in control.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1W3zyEcu6Q

    • On January 10, 2020 at 5:14 pm,
      Jim M says:

      Fitton’s show – Scary – can we end this corruption without a civil war? I hope so…but it will take a long time, beyond Trump.

      • On January 10, 2020 at 6:25 pm,
        cfs says:

        I don’t think it will take a civil War, but it will take some officials to develop a backbone and indict people like HRC, preferably against real criminals and corrupt politicians across party lines, without prejudice or preference. As long as leaders are allowed to walk away, the problem will not be solved.

        Getting a reformation in Islam, however, is something else. That will take years of written and verbal condemnation. Meanwhile atrocities occur daily in places like Nigeria, and information flow, both in and out, is suppressed.
        It is not by accident intolerant societies control media.

  18. On January 10, 2020 at 4:53 pm,
    Jim M says:

    CFS, the far above comment about hate was a response to Robert – not you – it showed up late because Al had to proxy it. I appreciate your information and expertise, and you make valid comments often.

    Robert makes a lot of strong accusations against me just as often – but I suppose the dialogue provides others a variable view.

    • On January 10, 2020 at 6:28 pm,
      cfs says:

      https://www.democraticunderground.net/100212861154

      Iran seeking revenge already against Trump ?
      The media very quiet, but it only just happened.

      • On January 11, 2020 at 10:42 am,
        Big Al says:

        I don’t know the answer to that question, Professor

  19. On January 10, 2020 at 8:38 pm,
    cfs says:

    The final proof that Iran was responsible for downing the Ukraine 737 ?

    Today they literally bulldozed the crash site, destroying any evidence on the ground.

    • On January 11, 2020 at 2:27 am,
      Excelsior says:

      Under pressure, Iran admits it shot down jetliner by mistake

      By Nasser Karimi and Joseph Krauss – 34 minutes ago

      “Iran on Saturday acknowledged that its armed forces “unintentionally” shot down the Ukrainian jetliner that crashed earlier this week, killing all 176 aboard, after the government had repeatedly denied Western accusations that it was responsible.”

      “The plane was shot down early Wednesday, hours after Iran launched a ballistic missile attack on two military bases housing U.S. troops in Iraq in retaliation for the killing of Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani in an American airstrike in Baghdad. No one was wounded in the attack on the bases.”

      https://apnews.com/21f4a92a2dfbc38581719664bdf6f38e

      • On January 11, 2020 at 10:37 am,
        Big Al says:

        Thanks for the reminder, Excelsior. We were discussing that yesterday.

    • On January 11, 2020 at 10:41 am,
      Big Al says:

      Thanks for the comment, Professor