Kitco Radio – Thu 21 Jun, 2012

James Turk has some interesting thoughts on Thursday’s action in the gold market.

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Al KorelinJames Turk

  1. On June 21, 2012 at 10:06 am,
    Jon Nadler says:


    Thanks for the commentary.

    I’m not an expert, but was not surprised to see gold go down like this. I was surprised to see it recover as much as it did yesterday. Don’t know if monkey business is to blame or if monkey business is now simply the normal modus operandi (actually we know the answer to that one). I sold off a lot of my mining shares yesterday, the minute I learned about the extension of TWIST. Just blew them out. When to buy back, that will be the big question.

    In the meantime what available physical remains in the system is siphoned off and removed from the system. It seems that at some point physical gold will collide with paper. Who do we think will carry the day?

    For now, however, somehow the gold price has become linked to QE. Our day WILL come. In the meantime we learn patience.

    Good luck to all…

    • On June 21, 2012 at 10:11 am,
      Marc says:

      If this is the real Jon Nadler:
      That, commentary, more specifically, the last sentence, was a comment of a “1000 words” I can FINALLY, sink my teeth into! Or should, I say, wrap my little, feeble brain around! 🙂

      • On June 21, 2012 at 3:27 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Hi Marc,

        I gotta tell you think what you want about Jon, but having a feeble brain is not one of his characteristics.

        Big Al

        • On June 21, 2012 at 3:37 pm,
          Marc says:

          No Big Al – please reread my post.
          I didn’t say Jon, I said MY feeble brain, you KNOW, it is not in me to “hit below the waist.” Well, it might be in me – but, hopefully, I won’t succumb to such nonsense!
          All the best,
          Marc 🙂

          • On June 21, 2012 at 3:43 pm,
            Big Al says:

            Since I am learning to speak Spanish, sometime my English reading gives me a problem.

            Big Aztec Al

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:21 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hi Peter,

      Patience with a capital P!

      Big Al

  2. On June 21, 2012 at 10:06 am,
    Peter says:

    Sorry about the Jon Nadler. It auto enters that name every time I refresh the page!!!

    • On June 21, 2012 at 10:13 am,
      Marc says:

      Shoot, fooled again, I knew that last sentence from “Jon Nadler” was too good to be true – Peter! Ha!

      • On June 21, 2012 at 10:18 am,
        Peter says:

        How ya doin’ Marc?

        Yes, that would have been the give away. But the first couple of sentences really do make me sound like him. Scary…

        • On June 21, 2012 at 10:24 am,
          Marc says:

          I must say…you do have a sense of humor – my friend! Everything is a-ok with me…hope, you are ok too.
          All the best,

          • On June 21, 2012 at 11:04 am,
            Peter says:

            Thank Marc,

            My sense of humor is maybe a little “different” at times, but I’m mostly harmless.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:22 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Any p/r is good p/r!

      Big Al

  3. On June 21, 2012 at 10:07 am,
    Mark Alan says:

    The gold price dropping is NOT surprising to me, as the good Doctor Richard pointed out nearly three weeks ago (to which I concurred) that there was a REALLY LARGE gap on the GLD that occurred when gold had that massive $70 + rally. I think that unless the $1550 areas breaks we won’t be seeing much lower prices.

    Long term technicals still show weakness, but as long as gold can consolidat and build a base between the price ranges of $1560 – $1600 for the rest of this month, I think we may just get a surprise move to the upside come late July. But don’t be surprised if we do continue to see the metals drift down. The miners are getting ready to take it on the chin again and the U.S. dollar looks like it has finished basing and should begin its LAST move higher. This will put pressure on all commodities as everyone here knows.

    Stay frosty
    and thanks for the updates Big Al

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm,
      Big Al says:

      You’re welcome Mark A.

      Big Al

  4. On June 21, 2012 at 10:07 am,
    Peter says:

    And I have no idea why the first post appears twice.

  5. On June 21, 2012 at 10:24 am,
    Peter says:

    Ok, it’s auto-entering Peter again.

    Something else. What (free) source do you guys use for real time gold quotes. I usually use the kitco chart, but don’t like having to refresh it all the time.

    So I also use this:

    It’s a nice tracker, but it doesn’t always match kitco in the short run. During extreme fluctuations their quotes can be as much as 10 dollars apart.

    Today the kitco chart is down for maintenance. Not good.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:28 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI Peter,

      Since I am looking at trends I use either Bloomberg or Kitco.

      Big Al

  6. On June 21, 2012 at 10:29 am,
    Arnie D says:

    Big Al, you know Jon Nadler personally, I believe. I’ve met him also and read his opinions for years, gnashing my teeth all the while. Has he had a religious conversion vis a vis gold. I’ve never heard him say anything positive about gold other than it’s useful as insurance, so recent postings by “him” sound very fishy to me. Especially statements like “I’m not an expert” (if not, then why the hell do you make daily pronouncements on Kitco?); secondly, “our day WILL come”. Our day? I can’t believe this is the same Jon Nadler we’ve all learned to love to hate over the past five years. Clarify, if you can.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 10:34 am,
      Marc says:

      Arnie D,
      If I may, it was just a big mistake. A fellow, astute blogger, used his name as a “joke” for us all to get “bent out of shape about”. I swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Our friend, Peter, won’t being doing that again….please disregard those as a confusing joke, to an otherwise, educational and enlightening blog.

      • On June 21, 2012 at 10:41 am,
        Peter says:


        Why do you put “joke” in quotation marks, as if it hadn’t been a truly hilarious joke?

        I had a blast! No one can take that away from me. We are all much too serious here anyways…will the constant non-performance of gold a lot of people feel like sexually frustrated teenagers.

        • On June 21, 2012 at 11:26 am,
          Marc says:

          Ok, Peter….:)

        • On June 21, 2012 at 3:10 pm,
          Irwin says:

          “will the constant non-performance of gold a lot of people feel like sexually frustrated teenagers.”

          More like “brutally gang raped” my friend 🙂

          But aren’t we all asking for more?

          • On June 21, 2012 at 4:10 pm,
            Marc says:

            Boy, that is brutal…but, yes, you might be right with that analogy..unfortunately we are getting smoked. The good news is that..we WILL get the last laugh.

      • On June 21, 2012 at 3:33 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Okay, I am an Aztec fan again!

        Big Al

    • On June 21, 2012 at 10:35 am,
      Peter says:


      You missed a joke that went on for a couple of weeks. It was I, Peter, who impostered Jon. So the remarks by “him” are fishy indeed. I was finally found out and had promised not to post as “him” again. But as I’m saying above. The name field has auto-entered the “Jon Nadler” handle. But this is now under control.

      JN never posted here. Clear as mud?

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:30 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hi Arnie D,

      One of our “family” thought it would be funny to write those comments in this forum.

      Has Jon actually said that on Kitco?

      Big Al

  7. On June 21, 2012 at 10:32 am,
    shawn says:

    On another note, I think that Canada’s real estate bubble is about to “POP”, especially in Toronto and of course Vancouver. As of today 30 year mortgages have been dropped and 25 years or less are all that is available, also buyers will be required to put a minimum of 20% as a down payment instead of 15%. Finally there is something being done by the government that smacks of common sense although they let this nuttiness go on far too long and now we shall see what happens when the dust settles very soon.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 10:37 am,
      Mark Alan says:

      ditto Shawn

    • On June 21, 2012 at 11:29 am,
      never accept the terms of service says:

      The Toronto condos are all being bought by mainland Chinese.

      Might be a clever idea to go to the new condo districts in the evening after sunset and see how many apartments have their lights on. Sorta like how the China analysts are sniffing out the property bubble in China.

      Though at the same time, Chinese pay cash and think of the condos as a long-term investment – in case they have to get the heck out of Dodge fast, e.g. to flee a corruption indictment, they have a few nice apartments in Toronto to flee to.

      So all is not as it seems.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:32 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Afternoon Shawn,

      I have heard this from numerous people in Vancouver.

      The apt. that we share with our daughter has been on the market since the first of the year. Showings yes, but offers no! (But then who in their right mind would pony up $6.5 K for a 700 square foot condo above a 7-11 store!)

      Big Al

    • On June 21, 2012 at 4:52 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      I would suspect this has to do with the Moody’s downgrade of several banks, including Royal Bank of Canada, what some might have considered to be Canada’s strongest bank:

      Thursday’s downgrade of 15 big global banks is just the latest stop on Moody’s Investor Service’s world tour of the financial sector.

      Back in February, Moody’s announced that it would review the credit ratings of 17 global investment banks. On May 14, it downgraded the credit ratings of Italian banks that included UniCredit and Intesa Sanpaolo (ISNPY -2.52%). On May 18 it downgraded 16 Spanish banks including Banco Santander (SAN -2.72%). June 6 brought downgrades to seven German and three Austrian banks.

      Thursday, Moody’s downgraded Bank of America, Barclays, BNP Paribas, Citigroup, Credit Agricole, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, Royal Bank of Canada, Royal Bank of Scotland Group, Societe Generale, and UBS. (Moody’s had already downgraded Macquarie Group and Nomura Holdings on March 15.)

      There are some pretty big names in the list, from all around the world. Not a good sign.

      • On June 21, 2012 at 6:37 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Hi John W,

        The signs have not been particularly good for some time now as you know.

        Big Al

  8. On June 21, 2012 at 10:46 am,
    Arnie D says:

    Thanks, Marc and Peter, for elucidation. I know the world is unpredictable and crazy right now. For a while there I thought I was losing my marbles.

  9. On June 21, 2012 at 11:49 am,
    Dai Uy says:


    From the Cambridge House announcement regarding future programs:

    “The market is currently like a strapless bra; half of us wondering what is holding it up and the other half are waiting for it to drop so they can grab the opportunity with both hands”

    BTW: The annual Spokane(Salish indian word for “Children of the sun) Silver Summit will be held here on October 25th, 26th. Many recognizable speakers such as Weigand, Sprott, Morgan, Berry, Kaiser and others on the agenda(Big Al not on the agenda as of this annoucement).

    Al: how about hosting a non host get together for your ” family” who may attend?

  10. On June 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm,
    Tex says:

    OK, Al and James, how about this scenario for gold’s fall rather than over-leveraged selling. For YEARS, the Bullion Banks (and perhaps others) have used paper gold and sliver “attacks” to drive down the price of both metals. These attacks appear to be timed with negative financial events such that when bad news comes out they attack so that the gold price is driven down. This has happened so often that members of GATA and Andrew Maguire can predict when this sequence is to occur. Repetition of this sequence (bad news-attack-drive gold down) has occurred so often now that investors have been conditioned to expect gold to drop on bad news (a Pavlovian conditioned response). It has happened so often that gold and silver are now considered risk trades rather than safe-havens. Bad news came today… we go again…….more conditioning….. (well of course part of the drop was due to the expected QE not arriving). SO….have the bullion banks and those with anti-gold agendas managed to instill a conditioned response in the market?

  11. On June 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm,
    Jerry O^OTB says:

    Great time to buy some silver down…$1.40,,,,IF YOU DO NOT HAVE YOUR PHYSICAL IN PLACE….

    • On June 21, 2012 at 12:18 pm,
      Marc says:

      It sure is tempting to dip into emergency cash and buy, isnt it?

      • On June 21, 2012 at 12:42 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Yes it is…..
        Did you see Ole Irish is back in town….

        • On June 21, 2012 at 1:27 pm,
          shawn says:

          Hey Jerry, now that your buddy is back Al is going to have to start divvying up those browny points you collected when tony was MIA.

          • On June 21, 2012 at 3:53 pm,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            DON’T TELL IRISH….about the browny points…..he thinks it some kind cross between a chocolate cake and a point of beer, or is that a pint of beer…

          • On June 21, 2012 at 6:34 pm,
            Big Al says:

            In the Box,

            The correct terminology is a point of beer.

            Big Al

        • On June 21, 2012 at 3:36 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Hi In the Box,

          I have it on good authority that they let him out of jail for bad behavior!

          Big Al

          • On June 21, 2012 at 3:55 pm,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            Al….like IRISH says…”there is no jail that he can’t talk his way out of”

        • On June 21, 2012 at 3:41 pm,
          Marc says:

          Sure did, thanks..see my hissy fit is subsiding!

          • On June 21, 2012 at 3:57 pm,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            Marc….calm down boy….the Irish is back..Irish Spring has arrived….

    • On June 21, 2012 at 1:14 pm,
      Mark Alan says:

      Good wisdom there Jerry O^OTB.
      WHERE’S IRISH?????

      • On June 21, 2012 at 4:12 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        thanks Mark A….hope they do not miss their chance…..

        the little people have requested that he get the potatoes in
        before his neighbors discover the gold pot he stored last fall
        after his exploits at Ft.Knox. Irish didn’t want me to say anything
        because word travels fast, especially on this site…but, I am sure
        you can keep a secret, besides what are friends for..
        Irish always wanted a pot…something about he did nt have a pot to……
        ……, but, now he has a gold pot….oh,the luck of the Irish….

        • On June 21, 2012 at 6:35 pm,
          Big Al says:

          That’s great In the Box!

          By the way, how is the relationship working out?

          Big Al (who has pictures from Las Vegas)

          • On June 22, 2012 at 4:33 am,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            Al…..we were hoping that you would not bring up the pictures…..,
            I feel like Kim K…and a Bruce J. moment…..if you know what I mean.

            (a note to our serious friends….everyone knows this is a joke,,,,,,right?
            sometimes you just have to explain, when they come for serious news.

          • On June 22, 2012 at 3:16 pm,
            Big Al says:

            A joke In the Box?

            Big Al

  12. On June 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm,
    reo says:

    You gold experts make me laugh. Always saying BUYING OPPORTUNITY everytime it goes down. What about selling opportunities??? I guess we all have endless amounts of cash to buy buy buy. I have been saying since and silver are going nowhere until after the elections…and then it’s still big maybe.

    But hey I”M NO EXPERT.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 12:20 pm,
      Marc says:

      Neither am I, Reo…not by a long shot…but take a gander at my post on the previous comment section…interesting to see your constructive input and others?

      • On June 21, 2012 at 12:44 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        knowing more than the guy you are selling to….

        • On June 21, 2012 at 12:45 pm,
          Jerry O^OTB says:

          OR , BUYING FROM….

    • On June 21, 2012 at 1:03 pm,
      Tex says:

      Selling opportunities sure would be nice….and different…….

    • On June 21, 2012 at 1:19 pm,
      Mark Alan says:

      WOW! didn’t know i was a gold expert. I know i sure lost a lot of money listening to experts though. I believe you may very well be right there Reo, there are some saying that the metals won’t start moving again until October. Time will tell. You are right though about selling opportunities! Shorted the SPY today for a nice little profit 😉
      stay frosty

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:34 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Afternoon reo,

      We are not experts. In this market no one is. These are just personal opinions.

      We are all concerned with the long term.

      Big Al

    • On June 21, 2012 at 4:59 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      March through June is not my hold period. Neither is March through November. I’m thinking 2020, at the earliest. So it is a good buying opportunity.

      • On June 22, 2012 at 4:37 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Hope we are still around in 2020…….but, that is only 8 years….so, maybe….
        I will have to get a job, and re-retire….if this keeps up…..

        • On June 22, 2012 at 3:17 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Gotta tell you, In the Box, I hope neither of us have to get a job again!

          Big Al

  13. On June 21, 2012 at 1:28 pm,
    Dennis M. O'Neil says:

    My understanding is the fractional reserve part of the banks were all insolvent the day they opened their doors.
    The investment side of banks is a derivative ponzi scheme.
    But with that said “I am shocked” any rating agency would dare downgrade such pillars of our bankrupt debt addicted society.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 3:39 pm,
      Big Al says:

      That Dennis M, is a great comment!

      Big Al

  14. On June 21, 2012 at 3:43 pm,
    Marc says:

    Just classic…classic!
    Thanks for that!

  15. On June 21, 2012 at 5:14 pm,
    Clay says:

    In the United States it is necessary to consider things based on the reverse of what people expect. For example, the Federal Reserve and the FDIC are supposed to regulate the big banks, but in reality it is the Big Banks the regulate the Fed and FCIC. Likewise Congress and the US Government are supposed to regulate Walls Street and big corporation, but in reality it is the big corporations that regulate Congress, White House and the rest of government. When the Government makes laws to restrict crime and fraud, they are actually enacting the laws to help finance criminal corruption because it is the corruption and crime that enables politicians to stay in power.

    In such a country the innocent are deemed guilty of all crimes perpetrated by the government and are threatened or jailed for life if they protest.

    Soon the US will have its annual holiday celebrating independence, ask yourself “Do you feel independent?”

    • On June 21, 2012 at 6:40 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Clay, do you remember the lyrics to the song White Rabbit sung by Grace Slick and the Jefferson Airplane?

      Big Al

      • On June 21, 2012 at 6:52 pm,
        Clay says:

        Al: I sure do. So that’s what’s wrong with me, I never take my pills, learned that in this here insane asylum, people call the Good old USA.

        • On June 22, 2012 at 3:11 pm,
          Big Al says:

          You have to admit, Clay, that was a great song!

          Big Al

      • On June 22, 2012 at 4:41 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        I LOVED THAT SONG………go ask ALICE…..she loved it too

  16. On June 21, 2012 at 5:18 pm,
    James B, CFO junior explorer - Canada says:

    Stay long and strong. American elites are devils and will burn for this. They have ruined nations and companies because of this. Anglo American empire is dying.

    The supposed 8,000 tons in fort knox and west point and the Fed Reserve was most likely stolen or borrowed from China. Doubtful it still exists.

    America is dying and it is taking the world down with it. Or trying to. The East is grabbing all the gold and silver they can.

    Americans are buying Facebook. Those that have two nickels to rub against.

    Who will win? How will the US finance their world wide network of military bases and purchases of metals for their missiles when their dollars are revealed to be worthless.

    Max Keiser says that tungsten filled gold is worth more than the US dollar. He is so right.

    Americans and Canadians are financially illiterate. This will end bloody.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 5:29 pm,
      Marc says:

      James B., talk about poignant comments! Wow.

    • On June 21, 2012 at 6:41 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I gotta tell you man, I hope and pray that the bloody part does not happen.

      Big Al

    • On June 21, 2012 at 7:22 pm,
      Clay says:

      James: You bring up a thought after reading your post. Lets suppose the high probability that either all the gold at Fort Knox and Westpoint is either gone or so encumbered with multiple ownerships like the GLD and SLV that a factual reported audit is impossible. In such a situation do you think the imperial rulers will consider confiscation of all private gold regardless, or would they reconsider such edict in concern that Americans might demand an audit of the reportedly existing gold first before complying to the imperial order?

      This argument has some validity, but the fact that so few Americans have any gold at all the bankers are likely to get the majority of Americans to support confiscation. After all these are the people who voted for change, voted for Obama and voted to have people killed in many places of the world because they were asked to give support for murder.

      You are right regardless, this will end in bloodshed and it is difficult to determine how long and the amount of blood that will flow. My gut tells me the US will break apart before bloody war is conducted by the Federal Government on the States like it did under Lincoln. The Anglo American empire is very weak among its ruling committee, with very little agreement on anything. They are retreating and they are trying to maintain a slow retreat fearing a panic retreat.

      • On June 21, 2012 at 8:25 pm,
        Marc says:

        I am calling it a nite after a very busy day with an educational lesson intermittenly (sp) scattered in with this very insightful blog. However, your comments cause great pause because they are very poignant (like James’) All I can say and do is just SIGH…….and SIGH some more…good nite to all.
        All the best,

        • On June 22, 2012 at 4:49 am,
          Jerry O^OTB says:


          • On June 22, 2012 at 10:46 am,
            Jerry Mabie says:

            “IT IS A NEW DAWN A NEW DAY…..” Great Michael Bleublay song in the old Sinatra style.

          • On June 22, 2012 at 3:19 pm,
            Big Al says:

            In the Box,

            It has here and it is headed your way!

            Big All

        • On June 22, 2012 at 5:51 am,
          James B, CFO junior explorer - Canada says:

          Are you all surprised? Thank Hollywood, Warren Beatty, Dustin Hoffman and Paul Newman and Robert Redford.

          Since 1967, the criminal is the good guy and the cop is the bad guy. It is good to steal and cool to devise plans to rob people of their savings.

          Go look at any clip of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Robbing banks in Bolivia, the poorest of the poorest country in South America ( or almost ).

          How cool. How Heroic. Thank you Paul ( may you burn in hell for your deceitful liberalism – just because you played a heroic Ari Ben Canaan in Exodus does not give you the right to steal from the poor in Bolivia).

          How Butch and Sundance ended is how many of the American and Euro elites are going to end their lives.

          Q1: Canada had in 1967 1,000 tons of gold – now 0.00 ( probably – at most 3.4 tons they claim. Audited? no idea). How did America have eight times that amount? Canada has been known to be a land rich in minerals and still is but very very difficult to obtain authorization.

          Q2: How did George Washington resolve the debt problem in 1781?

          Most likely response is that borrowing from China began before Reagan and mastered by Clinton.

          I admit that the USA is rich in oil reserves but doubtful it has any gold or silver freely trading, Europe has even less.

          Q3: If America is a violent nation, why no Presidents shot since 1982? We know that answer. Do as your told.

      • On June 22, 2012 at 4:45 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        FOLKS THE GOLD AT FT. KNOX IS GONE…..I know because Irish said it is safe in his pot buried at his Kins potato farm….

        • On June 22, 2012 at 3:18 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Just got off the airplane. It is now safe in our crawl space!

          Big All

      • On June 22, 2012 at 3:13 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Hi Clay,

        Okay, I just took my pill so I am rational for the time being.

        I really don’t believe that it will ever come to that.

        Big Al

  17. On June 22, 2012 at 11:06 am,
    Dan, calgary says:

    No matter what is said technically or fundamentally about gold stocks the fact is they are going down hard. How are you deailing with it? I feel that when all of “us ” capitulate and sell is when the gold stocks will be in the hands of the investors that the PTB want and that is when they will rise. Face it, we are screwed and are wrong and Reo is right.


    • On June 22, 2012 at 3:58 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      I DO NOT THINK SO…..if you sell here, that is what they want…..this game can go on for a little longer,,,,,but,,,,you need to look and see what the Indian rupee price for gold is…..and the Chinese yuan…..stop looking at the dollar only….
      The Chinese , Russians, and Indians are accumulating. not selling….

      • On June 22, 2012 at 4:19 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Hi In the Box,

        Those are all great comments.

        Big Al just back from you know where and don’t tell Mr. Irish

      • On June 22, 2012 at 7:53 pm,
        Dan, calgary says:

        I have been wathcing the CDNX and drew a line in the sand at 1200. It hit 1200.11 today and reversed. I will retain my line in the sand but it is very close. If it tumbles it will take almost all the juniors with it. Hangin’ at the edge.


        • On June 22, 2012 at 8:18 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Hi Dan,

          Not sure that we are that close to the edge.


          Big Al