Gary Savage – Wed 6 Nov, 2013

Our current views on the concept of manipulation.

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Featuring:
Al KorelinCory FleckGary Savage

Comments:
  1. On November 6, 2013 at 9:37 am,
    franky says:

    the nam of the game is control ! 100 % manipulation ! your masters don’t need profit !

  2. On November 6, 2013 at 9:50 am,
    Dick Tracy says:

    Hi Al, my birthday is on 12/6, I won’t say anymore because I don’t want any more birthdays that is, in defence of Toronto’s mayor he has done a lot of good for this city by being a fiscal conservative and I hope he stays, I know a number of people at City Hall who don’t agree with him but if they get their way it will be spend, spend, and more spend. DT

    • On November 6, 2013 at 9:53 am,
      Big Al says:

      I am five days ahead of you, Machine Gun.

      For some reason, I thought you lived in Calgary.

      Toronto is a great city!

  3. On November 6, 2013 at 9:52 am,
    Big Al says:

    I have to maintain that it is still nothing more than a desire to make money.

    I don’t see the correlation between 100% control and controlling the price of gold/silver.

    I see controlling the people with lies about the ACA, but not through controlling the price of gold.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 9:55 am,
      franky says:

      Day need you in the dollar to TAX TIFF AND ROBE YOU !

      • On November 6, 2013 at 11:26 am,
        Big Al says:

        Well now that is probably true to an extent!

  4. On November 6, 2013 at 9:56 am,
    Paul L says:

    Of course the Fed has to control the gold price directly or through the agent banks. It is part of their mandate and stated in writing.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 10:57 am,
      Bird Man says:

      Got a copy of that?

    • On November 6, 2013 at 11:28 am,
      Big Al says:

      I second Bird’s comment.

      I would like to see in concrete terms where it is said by the govt. that its mandate is to control the price of gold.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 11:55 am,
        Paul L says:

        Some discussion of gold price rigging here:
        http://www.sott.net/article/268198-Chris-Powell-Gold-price-suppression-why-how-and-how-long
        — In testimony to Congress in July 1998, Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan declared that “central banks stand ready to lease gold in increasing quantities should the price rise.” Thus Greenspan confirmed that the purpose of gold leasing was not what was usually claimed — to earn central banks a little money on their supposedly dead asset in their vaults — but rather to suppress the monetary metal’s price.

        — At GATA’s prodding in January 2012 former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker admitted to a financial journalist that central banks need to suppress the gold price to stabilize exchange rates at what he called a “critical point”.

        Volcker already had written in his memoirs that in 1973 as a U.S. Treasury Department official he advocated gold price suppression.

        — In 2009 a remarkable 16-page memorandum was discovered in the archive of the late Federal Reserve Chairman William McChesney Martin. The memorandum is dated April 5, 1961, and is titled U.S. Foreign Exchange Operations: Needs and Methods. The memo is a detailed plan of surreptitious intervention by the U.S. government to rig the currency and gold markets to support the U.S. dollar and to conceal, obscure, or even falsify U.S. government records and reports so that the rigging might not be discovered. This document remains on the Internet site of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.

        — In a letter to President Gerald Ford in June 1975, Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur Burns reported a secret agreement with the German Bundesbank to obstruct market pricing for gold. Burns wrote to the president: “I have a secret understanding in writing with the Bundesbank, concurred in by Mr. Schmidt” — Helmut Schmidt, West Germany’s chancellor at the time — “that Germany will not buy gold, either from the market or from another government, at a price above the official price of $42.22 per ounce.”

        • On November 6, 2013 at 1:17 pm,
          Matthew says:

          Thanks for the reminders, Paul. As Bernays wrote: “The average citizen is the world’s most efficient censor. His own mind is the greatest barrier between him and the facts.”

  5. On November 6, 2013 at 10:24 am,
    franky says:

    When we all are soviets same will still say no manipulation !

  6. On November 6, 2013 at 10:32 am,
    Dick Tracy says:

    http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/watch/ Al, if you get a chance listen to this program on the CBC last night on manipulation of markets by US and British banks, it starts at 22:34. DT

    • On November 6, 2013 at 11:29 am,
      Big Al says:

      Thanks Machine Gun, I will.

  7. On November 6, 2013 at 10:36 am,
    Bird Man says:

    What can I really add here Al? All of you agree with one another anyway by the sounds of it so I will just be spinning my wheels taking a contrary position and absolutely no minds will be changed. The whole gold community is so obsessed with this idea that they are utterly blind to reason anyway. It was like trying to tell them gold was going to fall before it actually happened and all they did was dogpile my comments and call me an idiot and worse. Like a bunch of religious zealots or something. I said enough yesterday. It is improbable that ALL markets are being manipulated as was suggested. That was the topic. NOBODY has enough money to change the basic outcome anyway. All they can do is nudge an existing trend and no more. They cannot reverse it.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 11:45 am,
      Pibe says:

      Agreed with you Bird man and I can understand how frustrating is to try reasoning with certain individuals; but let’s substantiate your claims with some psychological science, here goes again:

      Wishful thinking: involves believing something is true because we want it to be true, not because there is evidence that it’s true.

      Rationalization: is defined as a defense mechanism in which the individual attempts to justify his assumptions with faulty logic despite evidence to the contrary.

      Denial: is defined as a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of reality.

      Some hard core Gold Bugs use these 3 defense mechanisms (and more) and refuse to acknowledge hard core evidence to the contrary. Don’t try to confront them it is usually ineffective. Just keep exposing real and tangible facts and evidence; that’s all you can do.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 12:14 pm,
        Pibe says:

        Another less scientific hypothesis might be that Gary Savage (who started the whole manipulation thing) is using that as an excuse to justify his poor performance, poor record and inability to recognize that he has no edge in “predicting” the future market movements. But If I were to say that I would be labeled as a “basher” so I would just stick to the scientific theories and hard core evidence for now.

        • On November 6, 2013 at 3:31 pm,
          Jerry(Gator)M says:

          Pibe,

          Time to ease up on the Gary Savage bashing. Constructive debate is one thing but the constant degredation of another gets tiresome and reflects unfavorably on the individual delivering the message. Regards !!

          • On November 6, 2013 at 5:30 pm,
            Big Al says:

            Thanks Gator. Couldn’t’ have said it better myself.

          • On November 6, 2013 at 9:12 pm,
            Bentnail says:

            Add me to the “enough with the bashing of Gary” crowd. It is beginning to sound infantile.

        • On November 8, 2013 at 1:12 am,
          Bird Man says:

          In this case I agree with you Pibe.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 3:25 pm,
      Jerry(Gator)M says:

      Got to disagree Bird. The bullion banks and the fed have the money to manipulate. I would never call you an idiot as I read your posts and marvel at your knowledge and insight as I do with most of the people who post on this site. No, you won’t change my mind on this issue as I am a student of the Sinclair works. The manipulation takes place because of the profit involved whether it be long or short. Regards !!

      • On November 6, 2013 at 3:40 pm,
        Bird Man says:

        When you say that the bullion banks and the Fed have the money to manipulate…how much money are you talking about? Can you maybe put a rough number on that just to help me out, Jerry. How much money? Cheers!

        • On February 4, 2014 at 12:58 pm,
          Dflbv says:

          The puarsches I make are entirely based on these articles.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 5:29 pm,
        Big Al says:

        I am with you Jerry!

        • On November 6, 2013 at 9:41 pm,
          Bird Man says:

          I am asking a serious question of Jerry, Al. Lets just work through the mechanics of this conspiracy. How much money is available at any given time to manipulate a market (even ONE market or just a single stock). We know it cannot be all of 85 billion monthly of course. It is not as if the Fed takes the bucks and deposits them directly into the accounts at JPM, Goldman or others. Recall the Fed itself is holding most of the reserves that the banks are not lending out. They are paying a small amount of interest on them. So then what is the mechanism for this manipulation to happen. This is where I get a big fat headache. It takes money to move market. It takes billions to move even gold which is the smalllest of all markets. Someone has to have the keys to the little room where the computer sits that gets used to pump out trades designed to frustrate goldbugs. It is not like nobody would know. look, this is all nonsense as far as I am concerned. I do not buy gold manipulation for even one second on the scale that some suggest. That would take unprecedented organization and collusion between the most heavily armed financial behemoths in the country with the consent of government, Fed and even other countries. All of them would be involved. Is that not verging on preposterous? At most there are opportunistic trades that sway the moment.

  8. On November 6, 2013 at 10:40 am,
    RGT says:

    Let’s not forget what Paul Volcker stated years after he left the Fed, which was, his only mistake was not stopping gold from going up.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 11:37 am,
      Matthew says:

      Al says it’s ridiculous to think that the government cares about gold. I think that comment is ridiculous.
      Gary thinks gold has nothing to do with the Fed’s ability to print money. While this is technically true, in practice, it is not true. A soaring gold price shines a light on the government’s fiscal and monetary mismanagement. It is the single best reflection of the health of the currency. As gold rises, more and more people wake up to what is happening and lose confidence in the currency, the system, the politicians, and, of course, the economy. The Fed’s power to print, or even exist, ultimately rests on confidence.
      Gold does not go up when everything is just fine, and it does not go up due to superstitions. Gold is natural money. Above ground stocks currently equal about 70 years of production. In other words, it would take 70 years to double the gold money supply (probably much longer since grades are falling and large deposits are getting scarce). It would take many centuries to do to gold what Bernanke has done to the dollar in just a few years.
      I think Al should have his friend Bill Murphy, or Chris Powell, on the show to discuss only this topic. He should be asked why governments care about gold, and what proof does he have that they do.

      “An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense… that gold and economic freedom are inseparable.” –Alan Greenspan

      As was pointed out at KWN today, Howard Buffet wrote:
      “Is there a connection between Human Freedom and A Gold Redeemable Money? At first glance it would seem that money belongs to the world of economics and human freedom to the political sphere. But when you recall that one of the first moves by Lenin, Mussolini and Hitler was to outlaw individual ownership of gold, you begin to sense that there may be some connection between money, redeemable in gold, and the rare prize known as human liberty.”
      ——
      This was written in the 1940s, so you can see why he didn’t include FDR on that list. I read the whole speech a few years ago and it is worthwhile.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 4:03 pm,
        Fred says:

        Matthew – you are the only one who understands the relationaship between gold and the dollar.

        • On November 6, 2013 at 7:27 pm,
          SD Marc says:

          YEP..DITTO!

      • On November 6, 2013 at 6:29 pm,
        Paul L says:

        Gold is another currency that has to be controlled by gov’ts.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 7:49 pm,
        Matthew says:

        “Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.”
        — Norm Franz

        “Gold is money, and nothing else.”
        — J.P. Morgan (in front of the U.S. Congress in 1912)

  9. On November 6, 2013 at 10:49 am,
    james (the lesserrr) says:

    Manipulation (Yes or No, and does it matter?)

    I am going to reiterate most of what I already said on this subject.

    First, I believe I have the back ground and authority to discuss this subject better than most people based on my years of insider experience in the horse racing industry.

    In few other industries, is the art of cheating more perfected and more prevalent than horse racing.

    I’ve seen it all.

    Trainers putting sponges up horse’s nostrils so they cant breathe
    Performance enhancing drugs
    Trainers instructing jockeys not to try
    Batteries to give a horse an extra jolt
    Jockeys getting a horse in trouble

    These are just a few of the creative ways people will use to make a few bucks.

    Why?

    Because it’s easy. There is big money on the line and there is a line of demarcation between the “insiders” and the “public”

    IT IS THE SAME WITH THE MARKETS.

    Stock, gold, bonds. Doesn’t matter.

    We are the public. We are swimming upstream. IT IS NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

    THIS IS A FACT.

    IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT GET OUT!

    Now with that said you need to understand that cheating (for lack of a better word as Al would say)
    could work for you just as easily as it could work against you.

    You either need to forget about it, block it from your mind, and play the game (racing, gold, stocks, poker…) to the best of your ability, OR YOU NEED TO WALK AWAY AND FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DRIVE YOURSELF CRAZY THAT IS CHEAPER.

    But you can’t keep on crying foul. It is poor sportsmanship.

    Now do I believe the markets are manipulated?

    Of course.

    Why wouldn’t they be?

    THERE IS HUGE SUMS OF MONEY ON THE LINE, THERE IS INSIDERS AND THE PUBLIC, AND WE ALL HAVE A FALLEN NATURE.

    THIS IS A NO BRAINER.

    All you need to do is go by what comes out of their own mouths!

    Just recently Bernanke admitted as much his goal is a rising stock market.

    How do you think he is going about? Wishful thinking and prayer and supplication.

    No.

    He is either implicitly setting the table for rising stock prices with QE or he is overtly taking action to keep the markets levitated. Same difference. DON’T GET DISTRACTED WITH THE MECHANICS OF IT ALL.

    He is manipulating the markets, pure and simple.

    He recently said he doesn’t understand gold.

    The head central banker doesn’t understand gold?

    Of course he understands gold. Of course gold matters. It is a competing alternative to fiat currency.

    Of course it affects the economy.

    This is the foolishness to think it doesn’t.

    HOWEVER IN THE LONG RUN IT DOESN’T MATTER.

    You think the government wouldn’t manipulate the gold market?

    This is the same administration that gave us Benghazi and “If you like your plan you can keep it”
    And you don’t think they would manipulate a market if it served their purposes?

    What rock are you sleeping under?

    Now some people will scream manipulation when they have no hard evidence. This is plain wrong.

    You can’t use manipulation as an excuse not to do your homework.

    It is too easy for someone to make a prediction (guess) and then when it doesn’t turn out use the boogey man of manipulation as cover for ineptness.

    When you read the horses past performances (a running line for each race the horse ran in) to be successful you must learn how to READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

    A successful handicapper will ask himself questions, and a successful handicapper will have the answers.

    Were they trying with the horse?
    Was the horse injured?
    Were they just giving the horse a workout?
    Were they waiting for a better price?

    These questions; and a myriad of others, the handicapper is confronted with on a daily basis.

    If you don’t have the answers, then you lack the knowledge and confidence to bet with authority.
    YOU NEED TO STAY AWAY

    IT IS THE SAME WITH GOLD!

    Many people right now are screaming manipulation.

    Why?

    Because they are confused.
    Because they do not have a handle on what is going on.
    Because the gold price is not fitting into their neat little box.
    Because the price isn’t meeting their expectations.

    IT IS EASIER TO CRY MANIPULATION THAN TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

    It is time to stop getting emotional about manipulation, which is being worked up by people like GATA, and KWN, and a host of others…and it is time to look at what is happening in the gold market (and all markets for that matter) objectively.

    The gold market had a tremendous run, it reached new highs, it garnered a lot of attention, and many people who really didn’t understand the gold market got in late.

    IT IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE TO SEE IT CORRECT, CONSOLIDATE AND CONFUSE NOW.

    Don’t try to get too cute.

    People lost patience, people saw greener pastures in stocks, insiders took advantage of weakness and pounced at opportune times.

    THERE IS NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY HERE.

    So stop driving yourself crazy.

    When I played the horses, I TOOK OWNERSHIP FOR EVERY DECISION.

    I enjoyed the fruit of my success and I dealt with the consequence of my failures.

    YOU NEED TO TAKE OWNERSHIP!

    Right now I am staying with my view that $1340 was a critical level.
    We took it out.
    The price action after the FOMC meeting was completely overdone and that we will now need some time to take back $1340.

    After that $1400 is the next leg up.

    Speaking of $1340, no one believes this to be an important price. They look at a chart and see bottoms and tops. Anyone can do that. Everyone can see that with one careless glance.

    AGAIN YOU NEED TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES.

    Do yourselves a favor.

    Either stay in the market or get out of the market but stop crying about something you cant do anything about.

    Take ownership

    • On November 6, 2013 at 12:11 pm,
      Andrew de Berry (Rev) says:

      Great article James – THANKYOU.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 1:32 pm,
        Bird Man says:

        Agree. That was pretty darn tasty James. You are on a roll lately!

    • On November 6, 2013 at 3:53 pm,
      Jody D says:

      James,
      Enjoyed your post! Thanks!
      Jody D

  10. On November 6, 2013 at 11:32 am,
    Dane says:

    Please … Cory has his own segments. If I wanted to listen to him, I would make that choice.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 1:33 pm,
      Bird Man says:

      Oh that darn Cory. He just loves to talk. Hosts can be so irritating.

  11. On November 6, 2013 at 12:43 pm,
    Big Al says:

    Yep, TAKE OWNERSHIP!

    Thanks The Greater

  12. On November 6, 2013 at 1:21 pm,
    Grady says:

    I’m dubious that gold price doesn’t affect the gov’s ability to print $. If gold were skyrocketing, wouldn’t this make more people aware of the weakness of the dollar and accelerate the move away from it?

    • On November 6, 2013 at 1:52 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I would certainly think it would, Grady!

      There are people who certainly don’t agree with me!

  13. On November 6, 2013 at 1:23 pm,
    Bird Man says:

    “There are groups like the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) and others, who have formed this cottage industry to try and promote the concept of conspiracies to manipulate gold and silver prices. I have said, as have others, that (a) there’s no evidence of such manipulations in the market; and (b) these conspiracy theories are a giant distraction, which can be a very costly to investors. You have investors who believe this stuff, and then they say, “OK, well, the silver prices went from $5 to $50. But the conspiracy theorists tell me it’s going to $400. So I should stay long.” And now the price is $22. And they’ve lost a big opportunity to make profits or book profits……. We’ve said these guys are full of garbage. They pollute the precious metals markets intellectually. They distract the market from what are critical issues in the economy and financial markets and the fundamentals of the markets themselves.” ~~ Jeff Christian.

    See the whole article at Seeking Alpha ~ November 6 2013
    Jeff Christian Calls Gold Conspiracies “Garbage”
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/1813392-jeff-christian-calls-gold-conspiracies-garbage-sees-price-boost-from-mining-cutback

    • On November 6, 2013 at 1:54 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I actually think Jeff is a pretty good guy, Bird.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 3:41 pm,
        Bird Man says:

        Jeff sure is. I agree with his position here as well.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 3:35 pm,
      Jerry(Gator)M says:

      Bird Man,

      There is plenty of evidence of manipulations in the pm markets. You first have to be open minded enough to weigh the evidence.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 3:44 pm,
        Bird Man says:

        Really? What evidence? Can you provide any that is not pure political agenda in disguise? Most of what I read is just heresy and wild speculations. No data…no hard numbers…no paper trail….no real evidence. All they have are a few outdated quotes taken out of context. Is that proof of manipulation?

        • On November 7, 2013 at 10:32 am,
          NYC says:

          Bird, your comment o teh trend being down is spot on…no manipulation other than a lot more sellers than buyers…gold is going to the 1000 level and GDX maybe 15. Then we buy othewrwise be patient and watch is all we can do until the downward trend ends…i am a gold bull, a big one but sick of losing $

          • On November 7, 2013 at 3:50 pm,
            Big Al says:

            Please for God’s sake, don’t compliment this guy. (Bird) You are just encouraging him.

          • On November 8, 2013 at 1:19 am,
            Bird Man says:

            Funny Al. But I am immune to compliments. My nature is mercenary and I don’t care.

          • On November 10, 2013 at 8:43 am,
            Big Al says:

            Yeh, you and Mickey Fulp!

      • On November 6, 2013 at 5:32 pm,
        Big Al says:

        I prefer to use the term “dishonest profit taking”

        • On November 6, 2013 at 9:48 pm,
          Bird Man says:

          Ha Ha! Now THAT I will happily agree with. There are manipulations and then there are just plain vanilla opportunists. They are the stock market equivalent of guys who snatch old ladies purses in the supermarket and head for the exits before they get seen.

          Hey, any of you watch crime TV? How is it every petty criminal act is caught on tape and yet the really big stuff like theorized market shakedowns on gold cannot be traced back to anyone….ever? Uhmm…maybe because it is not really happening?

    • On November 6, 2013 at 3:59 pm,
      Bird Man says:

      First time I have ever seen THIS happen, Al. Seeking Alpha took the article down and it is no longer available. I can only imagine it attracted so much hostility that the site decided to pull it. The quote above is all that remains of its existance.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 5:01 pm,
        franky says:

        Alpha never down Obama will tace care YOU ! no worry ok all ok no manipulation !

      • On February 1, 2014 at 11:37 pm,
        Rick says:

        This inoramftion is off the hizool!

    • On November 6, 2013 at 9:52 pm,
      eagle1003 says:

      Here is a working link to the article in question. Strong stuff.

  14. On November 6, 2013 at 1:32 pm,
    proud canuck says:

    Im just on lunch…wish i had time to read others’ comments…Al and Cory can you ask your analysts their point of view on bitcoin? it has gone from about $ .006 to $269 since 09

    • On November 6, 2013 at 1:34 pm,
      Bird Man says:

      Bubble. Get out while you still have time and don’t look back. It will crash and burn.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 1:54 pm,
      Big Al says:

      No problem Proud

  15. On November 6, 2013 at 2:12 pm,
    Dennis M. O'Neil says:

    —–Original Message—–
    From: dennislaw
    To: lucas
    Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2013 4:51 am
    Subject: Re: following up

    A very interesting story! Like all fiat currency the exchange unit relies exclusively on the confidence of the people using the currency.

    In most cases the “backing” stage of the currency is accomplished by having the unit backed by something of independent and stable value.

    In the case cited a URV, in the case of the USD it was Gold, in the case of post revolution France it was confiscated papal lands.

    By convincing the currency users that the currency was “stable” it would cause the “velocity” of the units exchange to slow even when monetary inflation increased.

    The trick is to allow an irresponsible government the illicit benefits of monetary inflation (expansion of the currency supply beyond the growth of domestic production) without facing the dangers of the rebellious causing consequences of price inflation.

    The NPR reporters hint at the problem throughout the story!

    Monetary mayhem is all about trickery. It is more about presdigitation than it is sound economics.

    prestidigitation (n) pres·ti·dig·i·ta·tion [ prèstÉ™ dijÉ™ táysh’n ] 1.conjuring: sleight of hand used in performing magic.

    http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fc/aa/53/fcaa5338d428a2771376ab0327a81d89.jpg

    http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fc/aa/53/fcaa5338d428a2771376ab0327a81d89.jpg

    To the extent we consider “The Wizard of Oz” a monetary allegory I was always fascinated by the advertisement on the professor’s wagon. But let author L. Frank Baum conjure what he might from the crowned heads of Europe …..Some of which tumbled into a basket for conjuring too much.

    It is wonderful to have first use of any expanding money supply.

    However, after the monetary expansion inevitably causes price inflation and things get dicey.

    When certain metric of unemployment and/or % of income dedicated to food are tripped there is no need for a next election as things will devolve in Tahrir Square type chaos.

    —–Original Message—–
    From: Lucas Welch
    To: dennislaw
    Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2013 8:53 pm
    Subject: following up

    Hey Dennis –

    Great catching up briefly just now. Glad to hear you’ve ee weathered the storm. Here’s the link to that article/pice on Julia’s dad I was referencing.

    A relative sent me an interesting NPR link on How fake money saved Brazil……
    Ironically the presdigitators think they are making things better.
    It is a blue pill red pill scenario.
    After all a bankrupt does not question his spending habits when he is racking up the debt. I send it in 3 separate messages as each has a link to follow.
    I found the exchange merited consideration as it is telling of why we are exactly where we are at…on the precipice of all realizing it was not just Brazil doling out phony money. ……..to wit
    How Brazil was “saved”

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/10/04/130329523/how-fake-money-saved-brazil
    My response to the above>>>>>:

    A very interesting story! Like all fiat currency the exchange unit relies exclusively on the confidence of the people using the currency.

    In most cases the “backing” stage of the currency is accomplished by having the unit backed by something of independent and stable value.

    In the case cited a URV, in the case of the USD it was Gold, in the case of post revolution France it was confiscated papal lands.

    By convincing the currency users that the currency was “stable” it would cause the “velocity” of the units exchange to slow even when monetary inflation increased.

    The trick is to allow an irresponsible government the illicit benefits of monetary inflation (expansion of the currency supply beyond the growth of domestic production) without facing the dangers of the rebellious causing consequences of price inflation.

    The NPR reporters hint at the problem throughout the story!

    Monetary mayhem is all about trickery. It is more about presdigitation than it is sound economics.

    prestidigitation (n) pres·ti·dig·i·ta·tion [ prèstÉ™ dijÉ™ táysh’n ] 1.conjuring: sleight of hand used in performing magic.

    To the extent we consider “The Wizard of Oz” a monetary allegory I was always fascinated by the advertisement on the professor’s wagon. But let author L. Frank Baum conjure what he might from the crowned heads of Europe …..Some of which tumbled into a basket for conjuring too much.

    It is wonderful to have first use of any expanding money supply.

    However, after the monetary expansion inevitably causes price inflation and things get dicey.

    When certain metric of unemployment and/or % of income dedicated to food are tripped there is no need for a next election as things will devolve in Tahrir Square type chaos.

    And a second response with a link to follow also on point….

    An interesting story today is on topic.

    Many Americans have a normalcy bias that the USD will always be the world reserve currency.

    However history is full of changes in the world’s dominant currency.

    It is fitting that the world’s dominant true economy possess the currency which is most respected.

    This is troublesome for the currency which losses world reserve status. Look at the British economic chaos when the pound lost the world reserve status.

  16. On November 6, 2013 at 4:04 pm,
    57 corvette says:

    Lol I see our buddy Pibe couldn’t resist his daily I hate Gary post.

    I have no idea what this guy has against you Gary, but I just want to commend you on that dollar call. That was quite an amazing call when everyone was bearish. I made some nice scratch on that trade so I have to say thanks.

    How far do you think the rally will go.?

    • On November 6, 2013 at 7:16 pm,
      Gary says:

      I expect either the ECB decision tomorrow or the employment report on Friday will trigger another leg down in the euro and leg up in the dollar. First daily cycles out of intermediate bottoms rarely top before day 15 so I don’t expect a top until another 1-2 weeks.

  17. On November 6, 2013 at 4:38 pm,
    Bron Suchecki says:

    Why is it that it is manipulation only when it goes down http://kiddynamitesworld.com/anyone-calling-cftc-morning-blatant-gold-manipulation/

    As james (the lesserrr) says, a lot of manipulation talk is sore losers http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-06/whiny-oil-traders-pretty-sure-their-market-is-rigged.html

    • On November 6, 2013 at 5:37 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Bron,

      Can you record an interview this Friday (west coast of US)

      Be great to have you weigh in on this!

      • On November 6, 2013 at 7:28 pm,
        Bron Suchecki says:

        Yeah sure, send me an email to tee up a time

        • On November 6, 2013 at 7:39 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Done

    • On November 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Good point, but there are a few of us who recognize that it goes both ways. I sure don’t use it as an excuse for anything, but it is easy to see that it exists.
      The reality is, at a bare minimum, all markets are manipulated because interest rates are manipulated.

  18. On November 6, 2013 at 6:50 pm,
    Gary says:

    Normal corrective moves are not manipulation. ridiculously stretched cycles, Premarket dumps of multiple tons of paper gold, and holding gold down during intermediate declines in the dollar is manipulation.

    Up until the announcement of QE4 I didn’t really see any signs of long term manipulation. After QE4 gold started doing things it had never done at any point in it’s 13 year bull market. That is manipulation.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 10:02 pm,
      Bird Man says:

      Someone must be taking big losses on those dumps. Who do you think is booking those losses. You do realize there is a thing called a paper trail and an electronic footprint don’t you Gary? How come nothing ever comes to light and there are no facts to support market manipulation on smackdown days? Just wondering. They used to swear the world was flat. The sun revolved around the earth. All the observations proved that was the truth. Was it though?

      • On November 7, 2013 at 3:01 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Are you sure that the sun doesn’t revolve around the Earth, Bird?

  19. On November 6, 2013 at 7:05 pm,
    Brad H. says:

    Worth a read for some perspective… Page 4. http://www.gata.org/files/FedArthurBurnsOnGold-6-03-1975.pdf

    • On November 6, 2013 at 8:01 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Thanks. If nothing else, this proves that the government and especially the Fed do care and think about gold.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 9:44 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Interesting point,Mathew.

  20. On November 6, 2013 at 7:16 pm,
    Brad H. says:

    Big Al et all, I believe that there may also be direct Gov’t manipulation when considering how desperate they are currently and will be to maintain USD preeminence… To me, this thing is all about USD support (while debasing thru QE) and Gold suppression. The banks making a buck on the downside for eventual long positioning are a part of the equation.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 7:38 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Good point Brad H

  21. On November 6, 2013 at 7:21 pm,
    Gary says:

    As long as all countries are printing the dollar isn’t going to collapse anytime soon. Other than the yen, pretty much all currencies have been trading in a range for the last two years as nations go back and forth to protect their currency crosses.

    • On November 6, 2013 at 7:38 pm,
      Matthew says:

      The dollar doesn’t have to collapse in terms of other currencies in order to collapse in purchasing power. The action in the price of gold since 2001, in all currencies, shows that they are all collapsing together. As long as this is the case, exchange rates should not be expected to break down significantly.

      • On November 6, 2013 at 9:53 pm,
        Bird Man says:

        That is a good point, Matthew. All currencies are in decline together.

  22. On November 6, 2013 at 10:03 pm,
    Pibe says:

    “The next MAJOR high for gold will be 2032.”

    Thank you Mr. Armstrong!! Thank God I am not 80 years old!

    • On November 6, 2013 at 10:19 pm,
      Bird Man says:

      Maybe he meant 2032.00 would be the highs?

      • On November 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm,
        Big Al says:

        In my ever increasing effort to address “every single comment”, in regards to this one, I would have to say that I do not have a clue.

    • On November 7, 2013 at 2:04 am,
      Andrew de Berry (Rev) says:

      Come in Pibe I’ll be long gone if you mean 2032 AD!!! If not then too senile too take any notice!

      • On November 7, 2013 at 3:03 am,
        Pibe says:

        Well….the coins in my grave will worth a lot!!!! or better yet; my grandson will retire rich at the age of five!!!

        “Maybe he meant 2032.00 would be the highs?”. No; he is talking about the year 2032. I think he is looking for $5k/oz. by then. But again; that’s 19 years in the future.

        “The next MAJOR high for gold will be 2032. Ideally, gold should invert. This means the wave 2015.75 to 2020.05 followed by 2024.35 should produce a high in 2024 and then begin to line-up with the ECM. If that happens, then the major high will be 2032, a correction, and then the highest high in purchasing power terms will be 2062 but the dollar may not exist at that time to offer a currency in which to measure that high.”
        Source: http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/

        Well; nobody is going to hold him accountable is his “prediction” does not happen. I think I had it with the so called Gurus and future “line in the sand” readers. I am following my own analysis and that’s it. Grandson: here are your coins!! 🙂

        • On November 7, 2013 at 3:40 am,
          Pibe says:

          “Short Side Of Long:” This analysis seems to be in line with most of the people in this blog:

          “Personally, I continue to follow the technical, yet simple, triangle patterns in both Gold and Silver. Upside breakout, while not preferred, would force me to buy a little bit (because you never know weather or not we have already seen the bottom). However, downside breakdown, much more preferable, would make me load up the truck and buy a lot more!

          According to Chart 2, prices of both metals are entering final stages of the decision point and therefore we should find out the next trending direction very shortly. Chart 1 definitely shows how extremely oversold the whole sector is on historical basis, so I hope we do see a break down and have one final sell off, washing anyone hopeful of higher prices that is left, out of their position.”

          Source: http://theshortsideoflong.blogspot.com/2013/11/gold-miners-extremely-oversold.html#comment-form

        • On November 7, 2013 at 3:29 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Kind of my philosophy, Pibe.

          I just listen to everyone and then make up my own mind. But, you knew that!

  23. On November 6, 2013 at 10:06 pm,
    Bird Man says:

    “We’ll address every single comment”

    Famous last words.

    • On November 7, 2013 at 10:35 am,
      NYC says:

      Gary is right but for the reasons Bird has ben putting out there…until every gold bull is out, teh downtrend will persist all the way to 1000…we gold bulls dont want to believe it but it is true and Gary u will be right, i am just hoping it is end of december when all the tax loss selling cause this “give up” phase

      • On November 7, 2013 at 10:36 am,
        NYC says:

        and i am real;ly sorry to admit it as i am a big a bull as there is…Gary/Bird just tell us when it is time to go long 🙂

  24. On November 7, 2013 at 4:53 am,
    57 corvette says:

    G man you are on fire. Just like you said ECB cuts and euro tanks. My long dollar short euro trade is going crazy. You just paid off my house. Thank you thank you thank you.