Kitco Radio – Mon 2 Dec, 2013

Will the gold market turn back upwards this week?

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Al KorelinCory FleckGary Savage

  1. On December 2, 2013 at 10:17 am,
    franky says:

    100 % manipulation you can’t now PRICE ! YOU NO LOVE THE european union UKRAINE ! Dear day com ! FREE EUROPE FREE USA KEEP DRAEMING !!!!!!!!

    • On December 2, 2013 at 10:20 am,
      franky says:
      • On December 2, 2013 at 11:39 am,
        Big Al says:

        Interesting video Franky

      • On December 2, 2013 at 7:52 pm,
        Bobby says:

        Translation of video from Ukrainian;
        Many are calling me and trying to find out how I got there ? Some TV channels who were sent the video said that it feykove .
        December 1 , about 18 o’clock , I , like other journalists stood at the Presidential Administration and filmed on video confrontation picketers and “Berkut”.
        Suddenly, at the feet of a man, probably he is a journalist , as well as standing next to me and holding the camera exploded smoke grenade. He fell to the ground , I tried to bring it to life, but the man was unconscious. After a few seconds of “Berkut” went on the offensive , and I pulled him into the building so that it is not trampled , “Berkut” run past us, and so I stayed on the other side of the front. It took about 5 minutes and the man did not come to life , so I turned to the cops , so they helped me bring it to a quick standing at the entrance to the administration . Fast gone , I do not got it and left.
        Put on his hood and stood by the wall and held the phone to your ear creating the appearance that something is someone reporting to Russian and other phone that barely looked out of his pocket shot this torture. Garbage, they call themselves ” Berkut ” horribly beaten people who did nothing , just lying on the granite. As a man, cop found some piece of paper and put it straight into his mouth and spat in his face. After about 15 minutes I was approached by some fellow with a walkie-talkie and asked who I was ? I replied : ” Mne prykazal here are Sergey ‘ husband asked me to grant him the certificate. I’ve been rummaging in her bag , and suddenly someone called him and I quickly went from there . I am sure to cops found out that I am a journalist who was just 15 minutes along with people whose feet are beaten and batons – then this video no one would have seen.

  2. On December 2, 2013 at 10:23 am,
    GARY WEBER says:

    for a while now gary has been saying the manipulators or the banksters, are trying to push gold down as far as they can so when the gold market turns, it will generate huge profits in the miners. if they control the market what has taken them so long to push the metals down to these levels as an entry point, I understand what gary says when he talks about cycles, but if these people control the markets, I don’t understand why it has taken them so long to push the metals low enough for an entry point

    • On December 2, 2013 at 10:29 am,
      Matthew says:

      The market is bigger than the banksters. They can heavily influence the market for periods of time, but they do not control it.
      If the June low doesn’t hold, I think the $1125 area likely will.

      • On December 2, 2013 at 11:40 am,
        Big Al says:

        I still don’t think that we will go that low Matthew.

        But, in this crazy world, who really knows?

        • On December 2, 2013 at 1:32 pm,
          NYC says:

          could be tricky Al this week with Job Day Friday… i am hoping for a plunge down tonight that will bring us below 1180 and that may mark the low? The GDX will turn up big 1st

    • On December 2, 2013 at 11:40 am,
      Big Al says:

      Mr. Weber,

      You bring up an interesting point.

  3. On December 2, 2013 at 10:26 am,
    Brett says:

    Most mines in South Africa won’t be able to run with gold price being below 1100 unless unless the rand weakens substantially.
    Many companies and esp exploration ones will most likely have to close shop unless they have a lot of capital funding.

    I basically think the newer generations don’t care about gold and don’t see it as a store of value. I think the days of gold being a safe haven are over, if anything it might destroy your portfolio if you holding too much.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 10:32 am,
      Matthew says:

      I think all generations are dumb when it comes to gold (in the West, anyway). There is no reason or indication that it will cease to be the best store of value any time soon.

      • On December 2, 2013 at 11:42 am,
        Big Al says:

        Others could be correct Matthew, but I am pretty much in your camp.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 11:42 am,
      Big Al says:

      I have always said that we use it as a “store of value” but we don’t buy gold/silver and nothing else as our philosophy is “diversification”.

  4. On December 2, 2013 at 10:39 am,
    DGHH says:

    Hi Gary S, are you saying that the 1030 could be out of the cards?

    • On December 2, 2013 at 11:43 am,
      Big Al says:

      It will be interesting to see what Gary says DGHH.

      • On December 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm,
        Gary says:

        I think we will get a final bottom this week. In order for gold to go to 1000 we would need to have another daily cycle after this one and it’s now too late for that to happen plus that money flow number I mentioned last week is telling me big money is starting to position for a bottom.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 1:43 pm,
      Silverbug Dave says:

      Gary has flip flopped and gold took its justifiably forecastabkle dive from $1250 and might not revisit there for a long time.

      • On December 2, 2013 at 5:34 pm,
        Big Al says:

        $1223.26 as I write this.

        • On December 4, 2013 at 9:26 am,
          Silverbug Dave says:

          Hi Al and Gary,
          Sorry if you thought that I was sounding a bit critical of Gary. I didn’t mean to be. I know some people have been pretty hard on him for making his courageous call to 1030. I was just a bit disppointed that he isn’t still aiming for 1030. It made things more interesting!

      • On February 1, 2014 at 7:08 am,
        Victor says:

        Dear Farmer Pritchard,I have eagerly aeitawd your book for months, and was happy to find it at my Columbia Pike Farmer’s Market yesterday when I got my eggs and meat for the week. You’ve sustained our bodies and you are now feeding our minds! I loved the book, and read it in one day. I loved the fact that it was $18.16, and enjoyed reading that part of the book. My thanks to you, Nancy, Betsy, Travis and all the others who make our food.Sincerely,Susan.

  5. On December 2, 2013 at 10:41 am,
    Andrew de Berry (Rev) says:

    Brett I don’t follow your reasoning. Sure some/many miners could go the wall and many living in cloud cuckoo land don’t give a toss about PMs. But how will that ‘destroy our portfolio?

  6. On December 2, 2013 at 1:22 pm,
    b says:

    Just woke up. What a surprise, I thought we “turned around” last week?
    Are we going to $1000 again maybe?

    Fed up Al? Is it possible people are learning the diferance between price and value?
    Maybe their tired of buying junk cause they are told to.
    Just a thought, on the other hand they just might be outa disposable cash.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 1:37 pm,
      Silverbug Dave says:

      I think that Gary Savage tried to extricate himself from his $1030 call late last week and sought any excuse to get himself out of it.,
      It’s a shame because he sohould have stuck to that call. He would have been respected even if gold had say dipped to $1180 or below because noone else was really calling for that (except the other and richer GS of course).
      If gold had gone into the 1000s he would have been a hero forecaster.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 5:36 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I am not sure that at this moment we are necessarily out of a “turn around”.

      Please, please remember though that I am not an absolutely insane goldbug who believe all the extraneous bs out there.

      I simply believe that holding physical is a good idea. I am much more interested in the various factors that make up the precious metals’ markets. That is what makes this so interesting to me.

      • On December 4, 2013 at 9:36 am,
        Silverbug Dave says:

        Maybe I take that comment back Al because actually Gary was much more cautious and guarded in his optimism.
        I note that Gary carefully called this an intermediate low on his Monday 4th December interview. Does he think gold could go lower in the future, say next year, even it makes a low in the low 1200s in December 2013? AT least the bulls seem to be putting up a bit of a fight here above 1200 but is looks a bit desperate. They haven’t even put a single positive X on the point and figure chart since late October. Conversely I guess it might be easy to miss the bottom if we don’t act when things still look bad!

  7. On December 2, 2013 at 2:24 pm,
    Gary says:

    “I think that Gary Savage tried to extricate himself from his $1030 call late last week and sought any excuse to get himself out of it.,”

    Not at all. If I hadn’t gotten that money flow signal on Tuesday then I would still be in the camp looking for 1000. That was a game changer and I’ve taken initial positions after being on the sidelines for 2 1/2 months.

  8. On December 2, 2013 at 4:46 pm,
    Gary says:

    Folks in this business one has to know when to lean against the crowded trade.

    Back in Aug. I said stocks were not entering a bear market and would at least make new highs with an outside chance of hitting 1800. No one believed me.

    In Oct. I called for a bottom in the dollar despite a Fed that confirmed they are never going to taper. Again no one agreed with me.

    On Sept. 3 I exited all my precious metal positions and cautioned that gold was heading back down. Again no one wanted to listen.

    In late Oct. as gold bounced I warned that gold was likely to break back below $1251. Once again everyone thought I was nuts and that gold had bottomed.

    Now I have a signal that’s telling me the manipulation has given up on trying to get gold to $1000. Why? Because the dollar is about ready to start it’s initial collapse. It’s just not going to be possible to continue to pound gold once the dollar breaks and starts to accelerate down out of the megaphone top.$USD&p=D&yr=2&mn=6&dy=0&id=p04601197660&a=326159943&listNum=1

    I suspect when I get the sentiment data tomorrow it is going to show a large drop in sentiment probably as low as 20-25% bulls. That is the kind of sentiment that can put in a final bear market bottom.

    All I’m suggesting is to get a 10% position sometime this week. Ricks 1212 level seems like a reasonable level to start. Then once we get confirmation that the intermediate cycle has bottomed one can start adding to it.

    Remember the initial move out of a bear market bottom is where the really big money is made. So instead of panicking like everyone else, maybe this time do something different. Remember the old saying “buy when there’s blood in the streets”. There’s enough blood to warrant at least an initial 10% position.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 5:39 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Thanks Gary

  9. On December 2, 2013 at 5:48 pm,
    Spinkter says:

    Folks in this business one has to know when to lean against the crowded trade…..(lean or fall over pushing a string?)

    Back in Aug. I said………

    On Sept. 3…..

    In late Oct….

    I suspect when….

    Here are the facts…….

    From the beginning……

    Like I said…..

    All this blather is just hilarious. And the above was just the past 24 hrs. If I had more time i would show you more of the exact same nonsense from this clown act Gary over the past 3 years.

    Ya know all that really counts folks?


    Gary has no positive results during any of this time and it’s why he $h[t canned his portfolios numerous times. He knew he was never getting out from under it and the thoughts of having to stare at a negative return for the past 3 years was more than a normal CON can take while the market and EVERY assets class BUT the garbage he is in is running away.

    You couldn’t really be this wrong if you had to, yet here we have a guy do just that!


    • On December 2, 2013 at 8:34 pm,
      ColdHardTruth says:

      I couldn’t agree more. If Gary has any subscribers left, then P.T. Barnum is rolling over in his grave and laughing his ass off! The wheels fell off of Gary’s cycles a long time ago! Anyone can pretend to be a guru if they are allowed to remove a portfolio every time a portfolio fails. There is a reason why people like Gary don’t manage money in real life, and it is not due to the “hassle” of having to dealing directly with clients….it is due to the inability to effectively manage money. I would rather stuff my Federal Reserve Notes into a mattress than deploy that capital to follow Gary’s trades. If Gary were to show me real results, then I would change my mind…but we know damned well that isn’t ever going to happen. I would rather flip a coin to determine the direction of the market….at least the coin is only going to be wrong 50% of the time! 🙂

      • On December 3, 2013 at 11:56 am,
        Big Al says:

        Again Gold Hard Truth, I have to stress that an opinion is just that an opinion.

        What is wrong with Gary give an opinion?

        • On December 3, 2013 at 12:15 pm,
          ColdHardTruth says:

          Nothing wrong with giving an opinion, but he also claimed to know what he is doing with regard to trading profitably and that hasn’t, shall we say, exactly worked out well. (to put it mildly)

        • On December 3, 2013 at 4:50 pm,
          Pibe says:


          Gary is not just giving opinions, please read my comment below.

    • On December 3, 2013 at 11:47 am,
      Big Al says:

      I don’t think it is fair to call Gary a “con”, Spinkter.

      Here is why. Purely and simply he is doing nothing more than giving an opinion.

      Everyone gives opinions. Is everyone a “con”?

      • On December 3, 2013 at 12:14 pm,
        ColdHardTruth says:

        Shutting down model portfolios to hide losses isn’t exactly an example of honesty.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 4:49 pm,
        Pibe says:


        Sorry but I have to disagree with you. Most of the bloggers here give opinions.

        Gary is charging for financial advice and advertising his services in this blog. Sorry but it is entirely different.

        He always states “I advised my subscribers” ; there you go: i.e.: financial advice with a fee (subscribers).

        I really hope you can tell the difference between “opinions” and what Mr. Savage is doing.

  10. On December 2, 2013 at 6:22 pm,
    hal says:

    my 2 cents worth: trying to forecast this market in PM has taken its toll on many a forecaster. Trading this market is likewise rather difficult unless you are on the inside.

    The reason you buy metals and hold them is the longer term eventual problems caused by debasement.

    I have a diversified portfolio of wants vs needs–metals, commodities water energy etc–and with 3 products hedge that so I can get out fast with a few clicks–nothing is perfect but you have to figure out what works for you.

    I am pretty sure things are not going to end well and when this reverses gold should be running much much higher

    • On December 3, 2013 at 11:51 am,
      Big Al says:

      Thanks Hal. Another diversifier!

  11. On December 2, 2013 at 6:59 pm,
    johnny knoxville says:

    screw gold. you should all be buying bitcoin.

    • On December 2, 2013 at 7:12 pm,
      Matthew says:

      That’s a silly suggestion jk. The two are at opposite ends of the risk spectrum.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 1:03 am,
        Andrew de Berry (Rev) says:

        Totally agree Matthew.

  12. On December 2, 2013 at 9:29 pm,
    Mark says:

    How are those silver LEAPS doing for you Gary?

    • On December 3, 2013 at 5:53 am,
      Gary says:

      I just bought them. I’ll let you know in a couple of months.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 7:43 am,
        Pibe says:

        41.9% documented accuracy for more than 5 years in a row. Dispute what?
        Well done boy!

        I would rather flip a coin; at least I would get 50% accuracy.

        But why bother? You will tell me that that ranking site makes no sense and call me a troll. You should be prosecuted man.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 8:26 am,
        Mark says:

        You bought them a year ago and they are now worthless.

        • On December 3, 2013 at 1:11 pm,
          Big Al says:

          If you are referring to silver leaps, you are absolutely correct Mark!

    • On December 3, 2013 at 12:05 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I have to ask you Mark, would you buy silver LEAPS today? I personally certainly would consider it.

      • On December 4, 2013 at 9:00 am,
        Mark says:

        Yes, I’m referring to silver leaps, and no, I would not buy them now. I’d buy silver eagles and SLW. I’ve lost nearly everything listening to Gary, but my job is pretty solid so I’m saving for now, putting some into 3D printing stocks and needling Gary when I get the chance. He’s become a joke that gives me a badly needed chuckle. I like you, though, you remind me of my dad.

  13. On December 2, 2013 at 9:54 pm,
    Pibe says:

    It is really amazing that somebody like Gary Savage still has any subscribers left. And he keeps saying, “I was right”. I guess all the numerous evidence to the contrary does not count. Hilarious! Oh well.

    • On December 3, 2013 at 5:55 am,
      Gary says:

      Care to try and dispute anything I said in the above post?

    • On February 2, 2014 at 2:04 am,
      Roberto says:

      Sunirpsirg to think of something like that

  14. On December 2, 2013 at 11:29 pm,
    Heidi says:

    Hello there , many complaints about so called ” forecasters for gold ” which most had no luck since 2011 . Only 1 made it being correct so far :
    Martin Armstrong .
    Should’ve read him instead of all others. And yes, the $ 1000 level is expected and maybe even $ 980 .
    And yes, the bull market in gold is not over .

    • On December 3, 2013 at 3:29 am,
      Bobby says:

      Heidi, Your are correct Martin was one of the few that got the timing rignt, even if MR Gold said he was wrong.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 12:11 pm,
        Big Al says:

        I believe that is what she said Bobby!

    • On December 3, 2013 at 12:07 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I have to agree with you Heidi.

      I sure don’t see sub $1000 gold right now though!

  15. On December 3, 2013 at 2:38 am,
    Bruce says:

    Gary, have you ever done a study over all these many years on just what percentage you have been correct with your “gold will have a (daily or intermediate) cycle bottom on the employment report or some other number? I would bet it’s not even 50%.

    Dude, you are a really smart & talented guy. I have big respect for you but your bad habit of betting on predictions against the trend is not very smart, nor a sign of one learning from their mistakes. We humans only learn through our errors. If there were no errors, there would be no progress, no evolution.

    Gold may be in a bull market but it is most certainly in a bear trend and has been since it topped in 2011. Therefore most bottom predictions/calls have been futile, incorrect and egoistic expensive endeavors.

    I do remember you calling for biotechnology to lead the next bubble. Excellent call. Too bad you didn’t bet on it or have your subscribers bet on it. You could have sold your gold over $18 or 1900, placed your winnings in any generic biotech fund or index & tripled your money since then.

    Bummer dude.

    • On December 3, 2013 at 3:31 am,
      Bobby says:

      Bruce, these guys make so many calls both bull and bear so that they can always find a day that they were right,
      Others however, never waver…..they continue to be wrong. (not going to mention the bygone guests by name here)

      • On December 3, 2013 at 12:13 pm,
        Big Al says:

        As I have said many, many times: “Listen to all and make up your own mind”!

    • On December 3, 2013 at 5:52 am,
      Gary says:

      A particular event can only act as a trigger if the asset is in the timing band for a cycle low. For instance, if gold was on day 8-9 of a daily cycle then an employment report wouldn’t trigger anything.

    • On December 3, 2013 at 12:10 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Yeh, that is a bummer Bruce!

  16. On December 3, 2013 at 3:39 am,
    robert says:

    The consequences of QE is not generally seen by people. I think when that happens peoply turn to PM’s and then they wil move up.
    What happens if people people have a hard time obtaining gold because there isn’t any? And what happens when banks have far less gold in store they said they had?
    Also I believe they can manipulate gold/silver but they can’t control the market eventually..

    • On December 3, 2013 at 12:13 pm,
      Big Al says:

      No, they cannot control the market indefinitely Robert!

  17. On December 3, 2013 at 5:11 am,
    Grady says:

    Wow, lots of Gary bashers here.

    I haven’t ever been a subscriber, but I’ve been following Gary over about the space of time he references in his comment above about his recent calls. And from that sample, I don’t see what people are so worked up about. I find his perspectives useful.

    Someone says Armstrong has been right, Mr Gold wrong. True enough. Personally, I don’t have faith in anybody’s ability to prognosticate what twists and turns the market will take over the next year or three. Seems that’s what the bashers want, though. The problem with that approach is, how do you know who to put your faith in until after the fact?

    What the bashers don’t seem to want is a trading approach, which means you watch the price action and have to be ready to act on a moment’s notice. And you need to know how to stop losses. To many here, that seems to be be perceived as waffling.

    Folks, be clear on your own approach, and own your decisions. If you don’t like Gary’s views, why do you even follow them?

    • On December 3, 2013 at 12:51 pm,
      Big Al says:

      I guess that is my point Grady.

  18. On December 3, 2013 at 5:50 am,
    Gary says:

    Yes we have a couple of trolls that seem to have made it their mission to post nonsense. The problem is they simply can’t dispute anything I said in my earlier post and anyone who has listened to my interviews knows that to be true.

    It’s pretty simple. I suggest a 10% initial position. That’s not unreasonable and if gold continues to go lower one still has 90% of their capital waiting in the wings. If gold is in the process of putting in a bottom then we can add to the initial position once the turn is confirmed.

    Of course at that point the complainers will have to make up some other story 🙂

  19. On December 3, 2013 at 6:10 am,
    ms says:

    Please just shut your mouth gary….one only needs to look at your public blog posts to see how wrong you have been

    Man up, you have lost your subs a lot of money. Least you can do is not spit in their face by saying how right you have been all along

    • On December 3, 2013 at 12:18 pm,
      ColdHardTruth says:

      Couldn’t agree more, ms. If he is really a trading expert, let’s see the positive results….because all I’ve seen from Gary is just the opposite of positive results.

  20. On December 3, 2013 at 6:33 am,
    robert says:


    How long do you think PM’s can be manipulated? At what point do they have to stop doning that?

    • On December 3, 2013 at 7:09 am,
      Bruce says:

      endlessly crying & whining “manipulation” is a losers lament … you can not manipulate a global marketplace like gold or silver for 2 years! Ridiculous .. large hedge funds or the like can have there way for short periods of time only

      • On December 3, 2013 at 9:12 am,
        Matthew says:

        Manipulation is not the same thing as control. Of course there can be manipulation for two years —or two hundred. Government intervention has wrecked demand coming from India. QE (interest rate manipulation) equals intervention in all markets.

        It is pathetic, yet expected, that at least 80% of the population couldn’t care less about the destructive policies of governments everywhere. In fact, most are all for intervention.

        • On February 2, 2014 at 7:01 pm,
          Sabeer says:

          You got to push it-this eseantisl info that is!

      • On December 3, 2013 at 1:00 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Would you call JP Morgan a little hedge fund, Bruce?

        Do you think there is a possibility that very, very large institutions can short gold; drive the price down; and, then cover at lower prices?

        Kind of makes sense to me that they can. Trust me, I am not a “black helicopter guy!

        • On December 3, 2013 at 1:50 pm,
          Matthew says:

          I agree, Al; it’s just common sense.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 7:25 pm,
        Grady says:

        They’ve been manipulating it for many years.

  21. On December 3, 2013 at 7:34 am,
    robert says:


    they allowed banks to lease out gold up to 6 times waht they had../ more magin requirements/ sell future contract in thin markets etc. That also sparked addional selling I guess

    • On December 3, 2013 at 1:02 pm,
      Big Al says:

      The concept behind the factional reserve banking is wonderful isn’t it! (And I am not referring to gold here.)

  22. On December 3, 2013 at 9:06 am,
    Bruce says:

    Gold is a bet on man’s stupidity & inability to solve the problems they create … equities are a bet on man’s ingenuity, creativeness, survival, prospering, ability to solve problems, etc

    from time to time, gold will outperform equities but absolutely not over the long run … gold/silver will shine again .. and equities will dump

    when? who knows .. not even Gary, as intelligent as he obviously is

    • On December 3, 2013 at 9:14 am,
      Matthew says:

      Since Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, gold has outperformed the Dow by more than two to one.

      • On December 3, 2013 at 11:33 am,
        Bruce says:

        that is quite the clever arbitrary starting point

        in that vein, why don’t we start .. say in sept 1980 .. gold was 834, today it is 1220 … roughly a 50% rise … the DJI was 903, today it is 16000 , a rise of roughly %1600 %

        • On December 3, 2013 at 12:48 pm,
          Matthew says:

          Why don’t don’t we start in the summer of 1999? Gold is still up nearly FIVE TIMES while the Dow is up a measly 45%.
          Compared to 1980 or 1999, 1971 is really not arbitrary at all, and certainly not clever. The world’s first foray into a pure fiat global monetary system is a big deal, to say the least. It is entirely appropriate to compare market performance to the new fiat reserve system and the old gold reserve system.
          The two left wing parties forced this immoral socialist system on the world as if it would prove superior. The reality is that it was a default on the U.S.’s obligations AND a power-grab. The entire experiment has been funded by we the sheeple.

          • On December 3, 2013 at 12:53 pm,
            Matthew says:

            It should also be noted that the Dow is not made of the same companies today as it was decades ago and that the gains came with much greater risk than gold. What would the Dow be if we looked only at the companies it was composed of in 1971, 1981, or even 2007?

    • On December 3, 2013 at 1:15 pm,
      Big Al says:

      One for your corner, Gary!

    • On December 3, 2013 at 7:31 pm,
      Grady says:

      Absolutely correct Bruce.

      We just happen to be at a point where a lot of stupidity is coming home to roost.

      Once this gets sorted out, gold proper place in a portfolio will be back to a small % for a while.

      • On December 4, 2013 at 8:14 am,
        Big Al says:

        Grady your last sentence has always been my point. (Keeping in mind that the magnitude is for each individual! A lot of people forget that!)

  23. On December 3, 2013 at 1:02 pm,
    Bruce says:

    not only are you clever with your starting date but your index of choice , the stodgy Dow .. how about small caps or how about BRK.A

    what two left wing parties ? Nixon was left wing? and Bush Jr?

    • On December 3, 2013 at 7:29 pm,
      Grady says:

      Agreed–left wing?

      The left-right paradigm really isn’t useful. Some would call it fascism, some socialism. Seems like a mix of the two to me.

      I like G. Edward Griffin’s approach: Individualism vs Collectivism (communism, socialism, fascism)

      • On December 4, 2013 at 1:15 am,
        Matthew says:

        Guys, both parties are made of Keynesian collectivists who want to redistribute wealth and expand the size and power of the government. YES, NIXON AND BUSH ARE LEFT WING. WAKE UP.

        • On December 4, 2013 at 7:56 am,
          Big Al says:

          .maybe Matthew, but certainly not my party.


      • On December 4, 2013 at 8:16 am,
        Big Al says:

        Again Grady I completely agree with your last quote from Griffin!