Glen Downs on Israel
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Thanks Mike,
I definitely will do some digging!
Perhaps the so called Christians believe that in spite of the statement made by Christ in John 8:44 that they will find favor with God through Jesus Christ by supporting Jews and Israel no matter what. You can not find favor with God by throwing your lot in with Satan and his children. Christian Zionists and fellow travelers walk in darkness and are deceived. As for the current conflict it was started in 1948 by The Jews when they took the land by force and committed murder, theft and genocide.
Pure nonsense Steven. Good try though. But I am not convince by such dull remarks.
You’re right guys – the two sides are so polarised that a peaceful outcome looks, barring a miracle to be all but impossible. While there are Christians and Jews who argue that the very idea of a landmass called Israel is heresy, and that Zion represents a metaphor for a heavenly place, others like the Zio-Christians in particular say that Israel’s very existence and her being surrounded by enemies on all fronts plays an essential role in Biblical prophecy. In other words Armageddon is to be fought on a literal piece of land, namely the Valley of Megiddo and that the antichrist will set himself up in Jerusalem before finally being ousted by Jesus when He makes His second coming. Only then will Jews and Christians alike become as one in their universal acclaim of Yeshua/Jesus as Judaeo-Christianity’s Messiah.
Whatever one’s take on either side of these two positions and however one reads the Bible, one crucial ingredient is missing, namely COMPASSION. The Old Testament prophets (Isaiah, Amos, Micah and others) were absolutely insistent on the Israelites showing mercy and justice to their impoverished neighbours. Without such mercy and compassion the very reason for Israel’s existence meant nothing.
Jesus was equally insistent when denouncing his fellow Jews either for showing contempt to the poor, or indeed towards their fellow Jews, namely the pariah Samaritans.
The current horror surrounding Gaza is how the Palestinians’ all powerful neighbour Israel cares not a whit for who gets killed in the holocaust of Gaza. Forget all the rhetoric about Israel defending herself, and that the killing of civilians is a tragedy, the ancient prophets of Israel and our Lord Himself would castigate modern Israel for its unconscionable behaviour. As for Hamas firing rockets, one has only to listen to the Zionist peace loving Miko Peled, to get perspective on that. Frequently arrested by the IDF for his overtures of peace towards the Palestinians, Miko describes his father (a former general in the 67 war) as being like one of those O.T. prophets since he too worked tirelessly to win justice for the Palestinians. even as the father got denounced as an Arab lover, so too the son.
I’ve said quite enough. So let Miko have the last word and settle matters with his Christ-like counsel.
Scroll down to P 2 ‘How Israel uses twitter, and look for interview with Miko Peled
http://www.maxkeiser.com/page/2/
For those of you who are neither Christian nor Jew I apologise. Because the natural take on the current debacle in the Middle East would be simply to say that’s where all religions lead to: Bigotry and hate…I want no part in any of it. Dare I suggest that to hold such sentiments you are in fact reflecting the very mind of Christ himself! So thank you for being disgusted. You’re more religious than many of the bigots!
The Zionist white khazar jews are public enemy number one. Sincerely. Once a gentile, but now i’m a grown ass man.
The USA WESTERN WORLD IS A CORRUPT DOLLAR WAR MACHINE ! The population don’t want to know ! SO THE NEW WORLD ORDER PRISON IS COMING TO THE WEST !!!!!!!!! ANALYST Marwan Bishara ! http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Gaza_Blog
And ALL CONTROLLED BY THE ELITE ! And the population don’t want to know day EXISTE !
Israel * Palestine 120 dead MUCH TV !!!!!!!!!!! Syria 1700 dead yesterday NO TV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAKE UP TV IS Fooling YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes franky.
Thanks Glen. Your perspective is greatly appreciated.
I have not got around to looking at that Rosenberg site you mentioned the other day Al, but the poll you mention is fascinating. I think one thing most forget when these kinds of emotional conflicts are hot is that the great majority on both sides would just prefer to get back to life as normal. Like you mentioned, Palestinians want to work and earn a living to support their families. There were a great number of opportunities for them in the past inside Israel. The other is that most have a problem with WHO is administering the territory and by the sounds of it they would prefer a less extreme and less partisan leadership. I agree. Hamas has to go just as Arafat and the PLO had to go. Moderates are needed and it is clear that is what the Palestinians would prefer. There was a time I used to go down there frequently just for a coffee to shop and relax and talk to people. It would be something if life would normalize there again.
Al,
In what you mention about who started what recently… I’d like to bring back events in a timely sequence, and let each of us think about this very very deeply.
1st act: Mahmoud Abbas administration and the Hamas announced that they would form a kind of unity gvt…
2nd act: B. Netanyahu marks his disappointment at this initiative as, ball park, he considers that one cannot deal w. Hamas at the political level
3rd act: 3 teenagers go missing in the WEST BANK…
4th act: B. Netanyahu gvt claims Hamas is responsible for their abduction
5th act: Hamas denies
6th act: Israel sends thousands of reservist and soldiers on occupied Palestinian territories to find these 3 kids.
7th act: PLEASE read this one carefully….and try to remember it… because people often become amnesic about it:
Israel arrest all in all about 450 people, including former prisoners it had released under previous agreements as well as elected Hamas officials. In the process, a handful of Palestinians are killed.
8th: Hamas still denies responsibility in the disappearance of the 3 teenagers.
9th act: Hamas starts firing rockets at Israel in retaliation for their army operation, the hundreds of arrests, and the few people killed (please note, for semantic purposes, these are rockets Hamas is firing, not missiles… There are no missiles coming from Gaza: missiles only come from Israel because they can be radar guided).
The following events are history… and we know it.
My point here is not to excuse Hamas or violence. But to say: “Hamas started it all by sending rockets” is a little bit of a mental shortcut, IMHO. Maybe these 450 people arrested and a few Palestinians killed during the initial operation to find the teenagers were the catalysts ???
Irrespectively of who’s to blame for what, I believe that honest men and women cannot deny that Palestinian cannot enjoy their freedom on their own land. And THIS IS THE ISSUE.
As long as Palestinians cannot enjoy their land without the presence of an occupying Israeli army on their land, and of hundred of thousands of illegal settlers, there will be no peace I’m afraid. And there will be other conflicts, and rockets, and other Israeli military incursion in Palestinian territories, and people will die.
And there will be people to blame Palestinian and say: “you see, they don’t want peace.”
I’ve written it before and I will write it again here:
* when a piece of land that you own is being cut in the middle by a wall build by the occupier. What would you do?
* if your land had been taken away from you, that you have an occupation force on it and illegal settlers on it. What would you do ?
* when this same occupier doesn’t want to recognize the right for your population to have its own official country. What would you do?
* When you cannot live free as free human beings on your land and have nothing to lose, what would you do?
Men who cherish your freedom so much and swear by it… what would you do it this happened to you? Just look into yourself, look into your soul, and answer these simple questions honestly if you are capable.
Best,
LPG
Excellent LPG. Israel’s behaviour is an abomination. Cowards firing in their shells from the comfort of their Med cruisers or playing push button murder with their missiles and drones. Fortunately the rest of the world is seeing it more clearly by the hour. My God when the Day of Judgment comes…..
Rev,
I will be a little specific and say that my personal criticism goes to the orders and actions of the Israeli Government, and all the soldiers happily obeying orders to commit the atrocities we have come to know in the past few days.
Thankfully, it seems to me that more and more Israel citizens are opening up their eyes and starting to questions the acts of their own government. These people, whom I call “dissidents”, deserve the highest praise as they are not afraid to stand up for the moral and humane values they believe in – and they are being finger-pointed by the rest of their fellow citizens, especially during conflict times such as now. These dissidents, for defending the oppressed, are true people of peace.
Thankfully also, a tiny yet growing number of Israeli reservists refuse to obey and commit crimes against Palestinians. They also deserve the highest level of praise.
IMHO, any salute for the Palestinian living in occupied territories will come from these dissidents, be they in the civil society or being among (former) reservists.
It will be a long struggle for the Palestinian people… it’s already been a few decades. But there is light. And light will come from within Israel itself.
“It will be a long struggle for the Palestinian people… it’s already been a few decades. But there is light. And light will come from within Israel itself.”
Not so! In the Jew there is no light of truth or righteousness. Read John 8:44
As long as Jews reject Jesus Christ they remain children of the Devil. There is no salvation by race. Only by grace through Jesus Christ.
@Andrew de Berry (Rev)
Parroting Nazi/Jihadi CIA propaganda lies does not make you insightful. You are obviously full of malice and that will eat you alive. In fact, it already has.
I hardly dare refer to you as Jesus, since you’re clearly a counterfeit. One of those who takes on the name of Jesus only to defile His name.
Our dear Reverend apparently does not know that the majority of casualties in ALL wars are civilians and not battle ready troops. So what is happening is Israel is not different at all from any known war in history and statistics prove it without question. He has however been quick to promote his antisemitic leanings and attempt to convince others that somehow this one war is different and that those who fight it are less decent than all others that have fought wars beforehand and that they have more of an agenda. The good Reverend needs to brush up on his history because if he is not plain ignorant of facts then he is clearly pushing an agenda that is thin as those promoted in the past. Jesus despised those who misled the people. Maybe Andrew can explain why he uses the cover of a conflict in Israel as a foil to promote his version of antisemitism. Greg Hunter banned him for good reason.
And before anyone jumps to his defense you might ask why he is not equally outraged by the murders in Sudan or the killings conducted by ISIS or the terrorism in Kenya or the daily Iraqi carnage or maybe even the hundreds of thousands displaced and killed in Syria. Andrew does not get a pass because he is a priest. No…..his postings revolve around Israel, Jewish occupation and Zionism as if this one conflict is different than all others. It is not. It is the same.
BM goes on being a silly boy. He simply hates it when folk get the better of him.
Rev,
You clearly listen to the BBC and believe it to be impartial.
I am sorry for your lack of knowledge. There is a book written by the eldest son of the Hamas founder and leader; Son of Hamas, written by Mosab Hassan Mousef.
Perhaps you could get a copy via your library and have your eyes opened.
The author also had a film highly regarded at the Sundance Film Festival, which should be on general release in the aurumn. (Film festival title was The Green Prince.)
CFS – thanks for your comment. Funnily enough I was listening to Radio 4 this a.m. and had to hear two Israelis arguing their case. Usual stuff about feeling sorry for the Gazan civilians, of the Israelis need to defend themselves and so on, of Hamas’ rockets doing damage to their own, etc. But as I’ve said before: One dead Israeli (the actual number stands at around 52) is one too many. But then 1350 dead Palestinians…. So I’m unclear when you say I clearly believe the BBC is impartial?!
I would be interested to read ‘Son of Hamas’ and can probably download it onto my Kindle. I make no case for Hamas, only to wonder why the IDF with their (once) legendary special forces can’t infiltrate them to use extreme measures at close quarters. A succession of surgical strikes in other words, instead of smashing Gaza to smithereens.
What I fear gets forgotten in all of this is how a year after Israel received her independence, the IDF in 1949 destroyed 500 Palestinian towns and villages, causing the eviction of 700,000 of their occupants. Israel extremists have always regarded the West Bank by its old name of Judea, and Gaza as Samaria – all to be reclaimed at the earliest opportunity.
How’s this for a deal CFS – I’ll try and read Son of Hamas and why don’t you read The General’s Son by Miko Peled ((which I’m doing right now). I hope you were able to see my earlier post with Peled being interviewed.
Just so that everyone is clear on this site I try very feebly to follow Christ’s beatitude of showing mercy. If I’m taking sides it’s surely little different to the way Jesus sided with the oppressed Samaritans of His day. I’m not trying to score points. In fact at the time of the ’67 war I was hugely supportive of Israel. But right now I am totally persuaded that the Land of milk and honey has poisoned herself, and that the Lord God deplores her current MO.
Perhaps why I’m stirring a hornest’s nest for some folks here is daring to suggest that Israel is not necessarily the central chess piece in some divine master plan, as many would insist. For every verse in Daniel or Revelation there are verses to argue another position entirely. (The book of Hebrews for instance makes endless references to a spiritual Zion) Or put another way it could just be the very fear of Zionist-Christian fundamentalists which is helping to bring about the cataclysm that they purportedly most dread. The equation is simple: Fear versus Love, and the vast majority of the Palestinians as well as the Israelis deserve to be loved. NOT to have their way of life wrecked and decimated by fanatics on either side.
May we pray for the Peace of Jerusalem whether as a literal place or as a place in one’s soul. And may I dare to add:
God bless each and every one of you! Andrew
My comment also applies to the more biased, LPG. You are truly ignorant, and use selective facts vto support you argument.
LPG, perhaps you giggest error is to assume:
All Palestinians , or most Palestinians are innocent peaceful people.
Hamas is a nationalistic movement, seekling only to promote the cause of the Palestinians.
Both of those previous sentences are false.
Just under a decade ago Hamas was democratically elected as the government of Gaza. Yet at that time, Hamas was recognized and labelled as a terrorist organization by both the US and the UN. I ask, therefore, are the people that elect a terrorist organization to govern them reasonably to be assumed as not responsible for that action?
With regard to the belief that Hamas is a nationalist organization is to ignore its founding or statements about itself. Hamas arose out of the Muslim Brotherhood movement. The same movement that founded AlQaeda and ISIS. It recognizes no borders and seeks as its ultimate goal a worldwide Caliphate.
Further and most importantly, knowing that it is a much weaker military power than Israel, it has repeatedly stated (if you care to look) that to influence public opinion its (Hamas’s) best option is to ensure that women and children are killed in defending its armaments.
Finally, any Jew hater really needs to watch the video put out by ISIS of its “soldiers” killing some 1,500 captured Iraqi prisoners of war by shooting them in the back of their heads, while sitting with their hands tied behind their backs. You, then may understand who are the “bad” guys. The video is, of course, not shown on public TV, because it is too gory.
Thank you CFS for calling me “truly ignorant”.
I think this is the second time, if my memory doesn’t fail me, that you call me as such.
I think the 1st time related to my ignorance about the US Tax system.
I responded at length to this, but I’m unsure you read my response.
I quote you now [unlike you, I typically quote you so I can’t be “accused” of misleading others]:
“LPG, perhaps you giggest error is to assume:
All Palestinians , or most Palestinians are innocent peaceful people.
Hamas is a nationalistic movement, seekling only to promote the cause of the Palestinians.
Both of those previous sentences are false.”
WERE DID YOU SEE ME WRITING THIS ? PLEASE QUOTE ME. PLEASE QUOTE WHERE I WROTE THIS. CAUSE I DON’T RECALL.
If you want to give me a lesson about knowledge (cause I’m “truly ignorant” to you), try better. Not harder: just better.
If you wish to start a self-discussion/self argumentation on things that I HAVEN’T written, and then go on/digress on ISIS, Al Qaeda and I don’t know what, that is your absolute right. You give a great opportunity to other readers of this blog to realize how well your psyche functions.
Now, for the sake of having a properly constructive and intellectually stimulating discussion on this great website that kereport.com is, may I please ask from you 2 simple, easy things :
(1) IF YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON WHAT I WRITE, STICK TO WHAT I WRITE for I try to chose my words carefully – in simple words, don’t let your eyes imagine things.
(2) STAY ON TOPIC. If we talk about occupied Palestine, please let’s stick to this topic. IMHO, not everything in the Middle-East has to do with ISIS, Al Qaeda and I don’t know what other group the mass medias are gonna come up next.
The conflict in occupied Palestine started way before ISIS, Al Qaeda. People who want to have their land back and be able to live free in their country called Palestine couldn’t care less about with the Muslim Brotherhood, for all I know. They just want their land and be free, IMHO. Most Palestinians are muslims, and a minority is also Christians (that doesn’t really fit with the Brotherhood/Al Qaeda/ISIS narrative, does it?). Both muslims and Christian Palestinians just want to leave as free men and women on their land.
If you want to start to mix everything and make intellectual shortcuts, that’s your own full right and I truly respect it – other readers will consider how sensible your arguments are accordingly.
Finally, a few last words. Re: the gory videos you’re referring to, I have seen a few of these gory ones. You see, I am truly ignorant indeed.
Good luck to you CFS. Truly.
Best to all,
LPG
CFS – No I DON’T believe LPG is more biased. Just a decent man who cares deeply.
That said I believe that you too are a decent and genuine man…just on the opposite side, that’s all!
Truth is all that matters in these discussions and we learn from each other.
CFS I have ordered Son of Hamas. You may also wish to consider ‘The ethnic cleansing of Palestine’ by Ilan Pappe.
Best, A
Come in CFS!!
Look at this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awCOSRg-gks
There are also many videos of jews protesting Isreal on youtube…and guess what….this will never make the news in this zionist controlled nation. It’s so sad people are blinded by the mainstream media propaganda. Enlarge your sources of information people. Try to go further than CNN, New York times and FOx news.
+1 Mike
+ 2 Mike. Thanks so much. Shalom to all true Jews!
No problem guys! It’s time the truth came out. The issue is not jews themselves or palestinians but the zionists who will stop at nothing to get what they want.
If you don’t have the 15 minutes to watch it all….cut to the 13 minutes mark. Think about those people who control everything and despise you, see you as mere insects that you still support because they brainwashed you. Everyone is paying the price INCLUDING peace loving jews who are againts the zionist movement.
MIKE THANKS for the post…………unfortunately…the American public is ignorant and brain dead.
People, thanks to the internet, never had a better access to information and “knowledge”, should they wish to educate themselves.
Yet, I believe that they have never been as much misinformed…
Amazing times.
Best,
LPG
a logical brain is required to see the difference…………
As people here probably already know I view Isreal as committing a genocide.
Its been going on from about 1948? (Geron was planning from about 1937, other Zionist somewhere mid 1800s I believe.)
I have never understood how Christians have supported this, other than Jews, christians and the moslems share the same god.
The american government support is easy to figure, but people calling themselves Christian? I don’t get it.
Ive mentioned before, beginning with the Talmd, (ok to rape children under 3) and ending up as the reward for dieing in “his” name, (the right to commit pedophilia for eternity)
I see a sickness in these religions, and I cant understand how anyone could believe a single word from anyone that wrote any of it.
Be nice when these religions are dropped and guys like Jesus actually get listened to.
In any case,
the only thing I can do about it is not do any business with anything connected to Isreal,
guess that includes the states as they supply the arms to Isreal, and issis actually.
That’s one reason I don’t trade on American markets.
Not hat it matters Canada has got its head so far up American butt we cant see anything other anyway.
Bolivia has declared Isreal a terrorist state and other south American countries have recalled ambassadors, I hope other nations follow suit.
Just a thought, should issis attack Isreal now, I wonder how much support from moslems they would get?
For anyone interested Paul Craig Roberts has some interesting articles in the last couple of days.
I
bb….Christians have been tricked into not reading their bible, that is how they have been tricked………..
and do not know anything about RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD………
“As people here probably already know I view Isreal as committing a genocide.”
Life expectancies in West Bank & Gaza (lines 91 & 109) are completely inconsistent with ‘genocide’:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html
‘ok to rape children under 3″
I believe the idea is to allow a woman who was raped as a child to be considered a virgin for marriage purposes. Maybe talk to a few Jews before repeating stuff you pick up on the web…
Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Niddah
Folio 45a
Now, all is well according to R. Johanan, for just as there is a Tanna1 who holds2 that one day of a year is counted as a year so there may also be a Tanna who holds3 that thirty days of a year are counted as a full year; but, according to R. Jannai,4 does not this5 present a difficulty? — This is a difficulty.
IF ONE WAS YOUNGER THAN THIS AGE, INTERCOURSE WITH HER IS LIKE PUTTING A FINGER IN THE EYE. It was asked, Do the features of virginity6 disappear7 and reappear again8 or is it possible that they cannot be completely destroyed until after the third year of her age? In what practical respect could this matter? — In one, for instance, where her husband had intercourse with her before the age of9 three and found blood, and when he had intercourse after the age of three he found no blood. If you grant that they disappear and reappear again [it might well be assumed]10 that11 there ‘was not sufficient time for their reappearance, but if you maintain that they cannot be destroyed until after the age of three years it would be obvious that12 a stranger cohabited with her.13 Now what is your decision? — R. Hiyya son of R. Ika demurred: But who can tell us that a wound inflicted within the three years is not healed14 forthwith, seeing it is possible that it is immediately healed and it would thus be obvious12 that a stranger had cohabited with her?13 Rather the practical difference is the case, for instance, where her husband had intercourse with her while she was under15 three years of age and found blood and when he had intercourse after the age of three he also found blood. If you grant that the features disappear and reappear again the blood might well be treated as that of virginity, but if you maintain that they cannot be destroyed until after the age of three years, that16 must be the blood of menstruation. Now what is your decision? — R. Hisda replied, Come and hear: IF ONE WAS YOUNGER THAN THIS AGE, INTERCOURSE WITH HER IS LIKE PUTTING A FINGER IN THE EYE; what need was there to state, LIKE PUTTING A FINGER IN THE EYE’ instead of merely saying: IF ONE WAS YOUNGER THAN THIS AGE, INTERCOURSE WITH HER IS of no consequence’? Does not this then teach us that as the eye tears and tears again so do the features of virginity disappear and reappear again
You are right aout me finding this info from the net.
“Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.”
— Moshe Dayan, April 1969, Ha’aretz; quoted in Edward Said, ‘Zionism from the Standpoint of Its Victims’, Social Text, Volume 1, 1979, 7-58.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”
— David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech
I don’t know but it sounds like genocide to me.
I also don’t think Hamas or Palistinians started anything, maybe we should consider the North Vietnamese terrorists in 1969? How many mpre examples of invasion are required?
I guess everyone her would throw their hand up and figure they lost?
Well, ootb, there is definaty deception going on.
When the spot that Jesus was baptized was being destroyed, the Christians never said a word, have they said anything about Jonus grave?
As I see it, if we want peace we gonna have to give up these relgions.
I like your show Big Al but I think you should stay out of mainstream media for news source. Guess who controls the media, hollywood etc…
I know why high ranking US representative support Israel but I don’t understand why the people support them, specially christians. Go and do a search on Youtube on how they see and treat christians, and you will wonder why the USA population support them. The zionist agenda is real, they have attacked the USA many times and blamed others. (This is not conspiracy theory, this is fact)