When will gold finally have to chance to turn upward?
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Interesting point.
It is an interesting point, but typically miners are reactionary and deal with hand that the markets give them.
Shad.. that can be debated on some issues.
Did Gold Corp offer ANV 1 share of GG for every 5 shares of ANV in November 2014?
Did Gold Corp offer ANV 1 share of GG for every 5 shares of ANV in November 2014?
Nov 25, 2014 7:45 AM
allsport232323 writes: Search seeking alpha for GG. When I spoke w Tracey in IR last week, I was able to narrow down the names of interested firms they spoke with. Both GG and NEM have recently idled projects, sold properties and are looking for US partners (read their headlines… BOTH have had nothing but trouble overseas in 2014) continued…
Nov 25, 2014 12:33 PM
flanders automation writes: She did mention 1 share of GG for every 5 shares of ANV but that was 2 weeks ago when both companies were trading lower. When I questioned majority ownership, she said the conditions for the exchange required ANV to own a minimum of 51% of the shares. My rough figures show that Hycroft could be fully funded with as little as 30 million shares
I am not sure how Goldcorp and Newmont recently idling projects is anything but a reaction to the lower spot prices over the last 3 1/2 years to the point where they saving those assets for higher prices.
Look how many companies just faced huge write-downs on their lower grade assets or more cost intensive assets. If the miners were proactive they would have been doing a great deal more to manage costs when times were better. If miners were, as group, more proactive then they would not have grown just for the sake of growing reserves, but while sacrificing revenue and cashflow (which was another reaction to what the investor marketplace wanted). Now they have to fast track the higher grade deposits, which would be worth quite a bit more in a better price environment, just to stay afloat.
The response about when producers are allowed to set a minimum price for their gold or silver is probably available to them, but to be viable in the marketplace and sell their ore, then they got to deal with what the marketplace is paying. If it gets below the cost of production in a protracted manner, then the cure to low prices will be low prices. As more and more properties face write-downs, put mines on care and maintenance, then the supply available shrinks and prices go up.
In an marketplace the producer of something can only sell it for what the marketplace will support it, be it steel, copper, gold, or zinc. That means that the marketplace of the art & jewelry, medical, coinage, and investment vehicles will pay a price, and that is what they sell their product for. They could say, “I’m setting my minimum for gold at $1500,” and people would say, “well everyone else is selling around $1154 so good luck with that.”
These miners participated in the bubble and now they are facing the consequences. Here is a great chart of a gold miner:
“Petropavlovsk PLC is engaged in the exploration, development, and production of gold and silver deposits ” blah blah.
Share price is 5 pence, used to be more than 100 times that.
What a beautiful chart!
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=POG.L&t=my&l=on&z=l&q=l&p=&a=&c=
Producers are complicit in price suppression Steven.
I refer you to Ed Steers work.
Agreed BB.
Why would they do that and commit commercial suicide?
NO…………it will happen when the NEW GOLD PHYSICAL EXCHANGE TAKES CONTROL OF THIS MARKET……….
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/podcast/6685/making-lbma-obsolete
………….AND WHEN CHINA GETS INVOLVED WITH THE NEW GOLD FIXING STARTING ON FRIDAY.
http://www.mineweb.com/news/gold/fixing-the-gold-fix-with-or-without-the-Chinese-banks/
Its a free market where markets decide…That called business at its best!
Why the hay did it end up down there LOL
Once again
On March 16, 2015 at 6:32 pm,
Bill says:
Its a free market where markets decide…That called business at its best!
It’s a free market? Wow Bill, on what planet?
They can do that anytime.
Unfortunately if they did set a minimum price, perhaps no-one would buy any!
Agreed. That was my point about a miner deciding their minimum price is $1500, in a market where gold is currently 1145-1155. Who would pay that much? Nobody.
The only way that would work is if there was no scrap gold, no coins or bars, no Ebay, and all the miners held hands, sang freedom songs, and decided to have a minimum price, which would likely violate laws in place.
Until then it is the marketplace that decides what value things are, and that is the way it should work. Now if that marketplace gets corrupted, pushed around, and even manipulated, that is just how it goes, and how it has always gone. The difference today is how huge hedge funds, banks, and institutional investors have become, and the ability to use high frequency trading or pre-market raids using online trading accounts.
Once……….the London Fix is gone, so will be the decline in price.
J, your assuming the banks are different in the east.
You also assume that there are no hoards of gold for sale anywhere.
We don’t know supply and we don’t know if the banks in the east are different than the banks in the west.
On the other hand, Rickards has a $3000 an once gold price “fixing” or rebalancing a lot of books. London fix ending might be the perfect opportunity to let the price rise.
Well, bankers are greedy wherever they are. However, they are executed and arrested on regular basis in the east. In the west, they seems be able to control politicians and get bailed out whenever they need.
J…THE..LONG…Don’t hold your breath hooter….my silver bars are now holding the pontoon in place…as an anchor…..good way to conceal them and at the same time put them to use….and ..no..I won’t tell anyone where it’s anchored….
Hooter to Gator……….you did remember to park your ptoon in a… non tow away zone…..
Do you have a date? Enough with the pie in the sky crap…Give me a date?
Billy Bob………who are you directing your inquiry………j………
sorry , that sounds rude…………………j
Just like with the silver fix!! HAHAHA!
The presence or absence of the london Fix will not make an ounce of difference to the price. It is a bear market.
can you spell MORON………….
OH, ha,ha………..
MIGHT HAVE posted this under the wrong moniker………..SPECIAL NOTE, there are no free markets, so to pretend…….is being a moron, of which I might classify under this classification………………..lol
Sorry for being so cross………..I listened last nite to the Cath. Austin Fitts……..concerning the BLACK BUDGET,,,nothing to do with race, but , the HIDDDEN budget of the military NAZI machine planted in the US…after WW2, Well, if you want to know more go and read it……………………….lol what a world……………j
Doc,
There was a time that the market respected earnings but now its all manipulated and based on the fed..The parabolic phase in equities is happening before are eyes. These markets are head to 20,000 dow.
THE DOW will be the biggest bubble since the tulip bulb mania……I see DOW 100,000
JUST KIDDING…………..LOL
BUT, I have to agree ,,,this stock market is going higher……….
or maybe it will not…………….NOW, I am covered either way……..
Funny J…the long.
You sound like Gary, J….L 🙂
Peter
Shad…. 🙂
Peter… 😉
Glenfidish,
The strong dollar is masking the parabolic rise in the Dow. In Euros it is well parabolic, look at the weekly chart:
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?s=%24INDU%3A%24XEU
Also if you measure it against the components of the US dollar index (or a basket of other currencies) by pricing it against a US dollar inverse fund:
http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/gallery.html?s=%24INDU%3AUDN
PARABOLA but not yet going vertical.
I think it’s the opposite. Weak currencies are masking an orderly rise.
Dow priced in euros:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$INDU:$XEU&p=W&yr=7&mn=3&dy=0&id=p12052390533
Dow priced in gold (note the weakening RSI despite higher highs):
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$INDU:$GOLD&p=W&yr=7&mn=3&dy=0&id=p10420816751
Stocks are unappealing here, in general, but not a bubble yet.
As long as nobody is setting or manipulating the price I’ll be fine.
Not the prettiest picture you paint doc for metals. But an honest assessment.
I agree with Doc that we will see lows in the commodity complex, and it will probably be in May, or maybe June, and they may flirt in certain areas with the 2009 lows.
That is why it will be the major bottom, and why it is good to be in a strong cash position after we take our little bounce as the dollar puts in it’s short-term top. Once we are done with the bounce in late March/early April, I am going mostly to cash, and shorting with the rest.
Then in May/June it will be a shopping spree to pick up all the undervalued companies that got the wind knocked out of their sails. I do think the miners will recover quicker though, so maybe May for the miners, and June for spot price positions.
My posts are not posting?!?
Yeah, I was have that problem too……
So a simple post does!
There is an interesting comment on USAWatchdog.com by Nomi Prins.
The Fed’s Juicing the Market This Week… But What’s Coming Won’t Be Pretty
Is worth reading on zerohedge.com
For some reason I can’t get citations to post using my iPad.
glad is back.
I was right last week when I said I expected him to be with his girlfriend (inSwitzerland) while she delivered their baby.
I meant Vlad. This stupid iPad corrected it to glad!
I hate Apple products, but admire their quality, and the iPad is much lighter than either of my notebooks.
http://www.shtfplan.com/commodities/nasa-signals-crisis-california-has-about-one-year-of-water-left_03132015 California has one year of water left, and you know what happens if you don’t have water you die! I hope SD marc reads this and thinks long and hard about his real estate in California, the soon to be back again desert. DT
How long are they going to pretend?
A LOOOOOOONG TIME………………..
The government doesn’t want to raise rates, then they will have to pay more money for their own current use, so what do they tell the public, they simply say we need more money to pay our bills, so the public thinks hey they are just like the rest of us what’s the big deal. This mess will only be stopped by disaster. DT
After todays interviews I have to say that because Kitco sponsors KER I am more suspicious about the veracity of the interviews here. The comments are another story.At this point the politix presented on Kerare moot.Most of us are in agreement.Im not here for the political insight. The sponsor companies give kickbacks.Im not saying the analysts arent smart or correct.
Something doesnt smell right to me after these months.
Claude Resources aside.This is Kitco. Thats not independent.This site is a business model nothing wrong with that. I trust the comments a lot more than Ker.
It looks as if the dollar has topped or is getting a pullback.
The next day or two should confirm.
charts,
just when you think the sucker is done rallying, he continues higher..Wait and see time.
Lol, ain’t that the truth.
The dollar has made me a Monkeys uncle more than a few times. LOL!
******* BREAKING: GERMANY JUST SAID TO GREECE……F@%K OFF…..YOU’RE JUST FULL OF SH%T ********
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/Germany-slams-Greece-new-government-has-destroyed-all-trust-had-been-rebuilt
” WOW……..WITH ALL OF THIS HAPPENING AND CHINA ENTERING THE NEW PRICE FIX, I THINK SOMETHING BIG CAN REALLY START HAPPENING THIS FRIDAY 3/20.2015.
………AND ALSO LOOK WHAT GREG MANARINO JUST SAID ABOUT ALL OF THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIAxhNwQ9BE
“Again ……..so many BLACK SWANS are ahead……..AND IT’S JUSY A MATTER OF TIME !!!
********************** And they know it ! ********************
UNREAL…………..just click on todays podcast on youtube with Greg Manarino…….
From zerohedge:
As reported moments ago, the White House is voiding a federal regulation that subjects its Office of Administration to the Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA (incidentally the same act that discovered none of Hillary Clinton’s “personal” government-business emails since they were not even stored on government property!) which as USA Today explains, makes “official a policy under Presidents Bush and Obama to reject requests for records to that office.”
Scum politicians…..
NOT SURPRISING FROM THE CHICAGO MOB NOW OCCUPYING THE WHITE HOUSE.
Chicago to DC…………maybe they need a scum line for communication.. and a brillo pad to remove the emails…
AS FOR GREECE…………….I THINK that this whole thing will be over with well before the FOUR MONTH GREEK DEADLINE.
I considered the same technical outcomes Doc that commodities might just break below 2009 lows. But I discarded the idea on the assumption that forces would step in to buy and support those markets once they hit critical lows. I could be wrong of course. We just don’t know exactly what will play out if the dollar keeps strengthening. But it would be a dangerous deflationary tipping point especially as so many resources have already retraced most of their gains off the parabolic rises they saw back then. Look at Sugar as an example. It has dropped back from 2011 highs of 34 dollars on its way to a destiny near ten bucks! That would represent a 100% retracement of the move. Below that we are getting into dangerous waters and I say that with regard to the whole commodity complex collapsing on a technical basis. Maybe it happens but if it does gold and silver will both suffer along with the resource group. My gut tells me the dollar pulls back now and the day of reckoning is put off to a later time.
By the way, do you recall how very recently there were still people insisting that the commodity supercycle was still alive? Amazing they would say that after what has happened. In fact I don’t think we had a supercycle at all, just a short term distortion in prices with attendant bubbles that all popped pretty much simultaneously.
“There’s good deflation and bad deflation,” said David Kelly, chief global strategist at J.P. Morgan Funds. “Lower oil prices are a clear positive for the U.S. economy, for the Chinese economy and the European economy. This stimulates the economy’s growth; it doesn’t depress it.
WE COULD SEE A POP IN GOLD THIS FRIDAY…………IF CHINA GETS INVOLVED IN THIS PRICE ACTION !
The Indonesian govt has outlawed transactions in USD’s.
It is now a punishable offense to transact business in Fed linen.
Rice has risen from 9,000 RPH/11,000 RPH per kilo up to !5,000 RPH per kilo over the last months. In a basic economy where THE food staple rises up to 50% in a few months there is little talk of deflation. The tv brings stories of people eating less and making less profits.
Soybeans have risen dramatically in price as they are largely a US imported product and the RPH has now fallen to 17 year lows against the Fed note.
Indonesians consume large amounts of soybean products.
Despite the 60% drop in oil prices there has only been a 25% decrease in the price of gas.
Venezuala is running 60% inflation as one of the world’s top oil producers.
Russia raised rates to 14% and is running 16.7% inflation.
Crimea’s CPI hit 153% yoy.
The US is reporting 0% inflation. John Williams at shadowstats says it is 7.5%.
The US with 12% of the world’s population have credibility issues reporting anything economically related to themselves,never mind the rest of the world.
Incredibly, Rice has fallen by more than half since the second half of 2011 when it peaked around the same time as gold. So what you are talking about are all currency events, not commodity issues related to food costs on global markets.
As I said last week the smash was coming………the same old same ole…….We must prepare FOR OPTION EXPIRY……and the Commission are just stacking up for the MANIPULATORS…front running Bastards ………
What the heck just happened to the price of gold? Up $12 in a matter of minutes.
I’ll have to bang my head against a wall just to make the day complete since we are not getting beat up by lower PM prices.
Flowers on the Wall
Buy signals got tripped as it was approaching 1140….there is fairly major support there so it was expected. The longs think this might be the bottom.
It sure looks good anyways. (;-)
But most of the move was erased shortly afterwards as others sold into the spike.
Supposedly Christine lagarde made a plea for the Fed to not raise rates.
I sold half of my UUP, and will be nimble tomorrow concerning the remainder dependent upon FOMC and Yellen. I am suspecting they will do something to remain dovish even if they remove patient. This week the markets have been seeming to lean to that conclusion, what with the dollar and euro, Treasury’s, and now the reversal today in gold. The data points are certainly bad enough to warrant dovishness. Now it looks like the market expects that, although before the market seemed to expect hawkishness. Unless people are just hedging a bit. We will see.
I agree but think that the dollar is about to take a break no matter what Yellen says.
Staying long UUP puts…
OMG…I actually agree with you for once. The dollar has peaked (for now).
Mark- you think the Chinese are not in the market now…??
OF COURSE they are in this market……………they just don’t CONTROL PRICE.
Ya Mathew…A FREE MARKET…I don’t believe there is any market controlled. Ya you can bump it period but that means shit in the big picture. GOLD’s manipulate too right?! LOL
WHEN WILL GOLD FINALLY HAVE TO CHANCE TO TURN UPWARD?
Answer: When owners and producers are allowed to set the minimum price for their gold or silver.