It turns out the Chinese have not purchased as much gold as previously thought. Chris Temple comments.
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I have to admit that I was very surprised at the numbers that came out last night. How about you?
I don’t know. They may still be there. To me the bigger point here is not that China may still have LOTS more gold squirreled away than they admit. Wouldn’t surprise me if they do. It is instead that the globe is still so weak – and the need for China to keep the yuan cheap so overriding – that they can’t tell us they have all the gold they still might.
Don’t forget you’re dealing with a country here that even more than the Fed HAS to make things up as they go along, merely to keep all the balls int he air. The last thing they are going to do right now is anything that will dramatically strengthen their currency.
Bingo. You nailed it with that comment Chris and I could not agree more. In China there is an air of desperation right now. They wanted to be included in the reserve status but they simply cannot afford an Yuan appreciation. Not with the way things are going anyway. It is just too risky and frankly I think they are coming unhinged and have lost control of the economy even as they spiral to 6% GDP growth (if even that is true).
As usual the market is treating official numbers from the Chinese government as fact and truth. No one has any idea what the real numbers are, but in your talk today, it sounded like “well, the numbers are in, and now we know the ‘conspiracy guys are wrong as usual”, to paraphrase you.
This number of 58% (or was it 57?) is essentially meaningless, just like the very high estimates provided in the “echo chambers.” It is interesting how suggestible we are. An authoritarian government throws out a self-serving number and immediately every one runs with it.
I felt just the same way as you when listening to this program, Peter.
Like what, man? Do Chris and Al actually believe that tripe from the Chinese press release? Its a bunch of propaganda…… I swear, I will eat my shorts and my socks if they have ONLY the amount of gold they claim in official reserves. I could not stop laughing when I read the Bloomberg story either. What a crock of baloney!
Ahhh… Who To Trust???
COMEX And Their Paper GOLD Papers.
NYC FED And Their Underground GOLD Stocks Unaudited.
Fort Knox GOLD Storage Unauditesd.
Chinee And Their LOW GOLD Numbers Unaudited.
Ahhh… Who To Trust???
You can trust yourself…which is why the first move anyone should make with gold or silver is to quietly buy some physical metal in small denominations and squirrel it away.
Actually i agree with that comment too. Nobody knows the bottom but as we approach a full 50% retrace from 1925 dollars it cannot be too dangerous accumulating along the way until we hit bottom.
Except for the guys who are perfect timers of course!
when did you start accumulating…………….
Not sure exactly. It was 1967 or 1968 but I am a little foggy on the details because that’s 47 years ago now.
accumulating means you did not sell……right………..?
Sold it all in the end, Frank. And I will never buy physical again. If I can’t buy it on a keyboard from the comfort of my fat chair I am not interested anymore.
then you would say……..forget accumulating along the way?
Not at all Frank. There is gold backed credit cards now, gold vaulting overseas, segregated accounts, private funds, ETF’s, miners to be bought and so much more. Why should I bother with physical metal in my hands?
because everything you mentioned is not in your hands……..other peoples hands…….
This is great information……
IF, China only has 1600 tons…………this is a completely new spin.
The idea of the yuan and getting in the SDR basket, ….puts a new spin on the entire subject , of any gold backing , and replacing the dollar. AND is not gold positive, or not as positive as before. I am disappoint in the information that has been presented as truthful, from so called experts, which from here I would consider no experts exist.
If, this is true………..gold is going back to sleep and the BIG CYCLE is over.
Other investments would be more of an interest going forward.
Now the BS artist have been exposed. Good. JMHO
“If, this is true………..gold is going back to sleep and the BIG CYCLE is over.”
———–
And that is exactly what they want you to believe Jerry.
How can the big cycle be over when fiat currency units are being created at an ever accelerating pace? I don’t buy it. I’m with A Listener.
“that is exactly what they want you to believe” 🙂
It is an Orwellian investment environment. The things that make sense, don’t happen and the things that make no sense do happen.
Good way to put it!
do you really believe chins gonna tell the truth on their gold……?!!!!!
SLOPE OF HOPE……..
but then again…….China builds vacant cities, lies about the stock market, controls the press, and dominates the people……
Chinese government does buy all domestic gold. It is the law. But it sit on an organzation out side of central bank. They decide when to do the new accounting entry.
COMMON CHRIS!!
DO YOU honestly believe that is anywhere near accurate…THE CHINESE are NOT going to show THEIR HAND until they are ready!!!! Give me a break….this is a GEOPOLITICAL and MACROECONOMIC CHESS GAME…..I would never ever reveal my hand until they are ready……they want to dominate the GLOBAL economic arena…….MACHIELVALLIAN (sp) TACTICS….end of story……BTW, you are a real smart dude I just disagree with you on this specific point…GOLD REEVALUTION WILL COME ON A MONDAY after a weekend….LIKE indeed a THIEF in the night…that is the only way this will come down!!!
…until I AM ready……….
SD Marc, you evidently didn’t read my comments above.
1130 gold is going to provide a lot of Chinese buying.
We cannot believe anything the Yanks or Chinese say.
Since China is the largest producer and importer of gold and America is continually abusing their reserve currency privilege it is safe to say that it is the Westerners that are eating up the B.S..
I would like to hear what Koos Jansen says as he is the authority on the subject.
Bashing goldbugs with a Chinese announcement that favours their continued accumulation at these low prices is another issue.
Everybody seems to be blaming Frau Merkel about the Greece problem;certainly in initially delaying the ECB bailout until stomped on by Christine Lagarde (ex Chicago Lawyer) of the IMF.
I mention L agarde’s origins, because of the crony corruption that seems to emirate Chicago (Obama’s home town).
It is interesting that in providing emergency lending for Greek banks, at one Time appearing to allow them to open on Monday, Lagarde is flagrant violating IMF Rules
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/bl/rr07.htm
Which provide that loans may only be made if repayment is assured.
Just saying…….they are all corrupt…..
The CHINESE are NOT AT ALL interested in keeping the average American comforted by the US dollar…we live on the BACKS of the whole WORLD….95% of the population is NOT going to tolerate it much longer…we export our DEBT and misallocation of asset prices and many nations CANNOT deal with it any longer…..
…misallocation of “capital’ affecting asset prices and fair market determination…….
+1
Interesting currencies today….
Dollar not so much up as euro down.
Smaller amount of gold than predicted did not hurt RMB!
They mine 400 tonnes per year and import 1000 tonnes per year more. China is run by very clever people that are just about as dishonest as the people running the U.S.
I imagine that 1658 tonnes is just about enough to accomplish their goals without upsetting the status quo. This suggests to me they have been promised SDR inclusion this year.
I remember reading a report about 4-5 years ago that said that the Chinese government did not care if the government held gold or its people, to them it was roughly the same thing.
Add a zero. If they had said 16,580 tonnes that would have been a lie too but still closer to the truth.
Cory, Chris and BIG AL
I must admit that I am completely shocked by your guys’ narrative!!!! Lets put it this way: My best friend in this world was the very SAVVY twin brother of my father –
AND I QUOTE:” IF YOU TELL PEOPLE (THE WORLD) YOUR BUSINESS…..YOU HAVE NONE………”
Um, think about that quote then rethink your narrative. Do you see my point…:)
good one SD……………
Hey, I KNOW KWN can be ridicullous with their “crying wolf” approach too stuff…but common this makes much more sense than the Chinese actually telling the world what they have and dont have…..”THE ART OF WAR”………Yep…….exactly
howwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllllll
Maybe KWN and Silverdoctors will be off the air when the gold market bottoms. Their continued existence is the sign that the precious metals bubble has not deflated.
Agree with SD Marc and others that only the naïve will buy the statement from the PBC. Why should China reveal their tonnage when the Fed will not allow an audit and expects the world to buy their monthly BS and all the stats from the US Gov’t.
Agree. The statement they have added only 604 tonnes in the past 7 years is so ridiculous it defies logic. Hell, even Russia adds 500 tonnes…….per year! But China is saying it has added an average of 86 tonnes annually since the last report.
Shoot….even that pitiful country called Greece could pull that off. Or Mr Gaddafi.
THE Chinese did not reveal the number, for they were afraid the US would invade and ripe off the gold hoard……………….
ripe………..to rip…….
Cheap all the way down…this reminds me of the things people said about the Arabs in 1982…good luck going broke.
I prefer increasing my wealth over being right, but I guess not all feel that way.
That´s the problem, Al. When gold bugs hear the Chinese news, they are disappoited because the were expecting a bigger number. For a NON gold bug, this is a true good news, because they can see the chinese are pile in.
China #1 goal right now is to get into the IMF .. SDR Basket later on this year.
The IMF are run by the United States, USA have the final say to let China in or not.
SDR Basket .. USD, EURO, YEN, and STERLING
The reason China released the mystery gold hoard result because IMF been nagging China for months and demanded an answer. Another way of putting it, China increased only 1000 tons since 2009 most likely is a bogus gold reserve number.. it’s just a way to shut the IMF up.
If China says we accumulated more gold than Germany and IMF .. that doesn’t bold well for United States and makes it harder to get into the SDR basket club.
My 2 ¢.
Peter
AH, kind sir…if you think this discourages me……you are sadly mistaken…:)
Gabriel
AH, yes…..good one….and the GLOBAL chess game continues…….I am learning Mandarin..:)……But I AM AND will always be AN AMERICAN….AND PROUD OF IT!!!!
I favour unencumbered gold over the fiat of the corporatocacy:
“I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”
USMC Major General Smedley Butler
I would like to hear what Grant Williams thinks about the numbers out of China, re gold purchases
To believe the news/propaganda put out by gloomberg and the rest of the yahoo’s is comical. A few months ago they said Russia sold their gold. A few days ago they said Greece sold their gold. Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.
The leaders of the EU said what they are doing with Greece. They are monetizing assets or collateral ( gold.. ) to create capital for the banks and pay off debt. That a paradigm shift in the way money is created. Why did all of the countries enter AIIB? Cause of assets…. Why is the BRICS the new financial system? Cause of assets… Why are countries hoarding gold? Why is Texas opening a new gold depository ? Because the new way of creating money is by monetizing assets…. And THat lady’s and gents, is a new financial system that is about to happen! It’s all about to be about physical assets. The paper game will be over soon! Monopoly game board 1 has run it’s course!
Monopoly game board 2 starts with monetizing assets. Creating new capital and unwinding the debt. There’s really no other way around that given the current financial system and the debt exposure.
Also, China has more gold than anyone. The countries around the globe aren’t piling into AIIB for nothing.
Think about this. The countries that have recently done their rounds of QE have basically printed fiat money to encumber more assets to back the country with those assets. So anything they bought with fiat money really doesn’t matter when the money is going gold or asset backed. Pretty smart play, if you ask me..
If that’s what they did ( which I think it is.. )
Two thoughts –
1) where has all the goal gone? I’ve been seeing all these reports showing that their ain’t much “deliverable’ gold out there so if it hasn’t gone to China then where has it gone?
2) why, oh why do we believe anything the Chinese say anyway? I won’t put a penny in that market because there is no way to tell what the devil is going on. If you can’t trust their stock market is on the “up and up” why is this report?
Why should it not be true at 1658 tonnes? At least any less true than the previous 2054 tonnes?
There has been so much hype about China’s gold reserves increasing to 3000, 4000 or 8000 tonnes and now it is 1658 tonnes up from 1054 tonnes. Oops.
Is this just their treasury reserves or does it include any sovereign wealth funds? Ah, it seems that it is just at their central bank.
Also of course, it ignores any private buying of gold in China so the import figures don’t mean much in terms of what the central bank has been buying does it?
Gold has crashed to $1080/1100 momentarily early Monday morning. I had $1080 down as a possible target for the time being as the lower line of a downtrend channel.
Unfortunately, gold that is bouncing to around $1110 is $20 below Rick’s point P pivot at $1130 that puts his target of $817 well in play. However, one step at a time…
OK now time to think.
CHina has much less central bank gold than some expected. That means that they still need so much more!!!
I always though if China has 5000 tonnes already then the bottom is about to drop out of the gold market because they will never need to buy another ounce again.
If they actually ave only 1658 tonnes, then they need to get weaving and buy a lot more at some point to get to 5000 tonnes. In other words, this is ultimately bullish news – but not for the moment!
For me the gold action in the next few years could look like this:
http://1000gold.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/possible-gold-action-over-next-few-years.html
Well Al, in answer to the discussion you had with Chris on the wrong prognostications regarding China’s gold holdings, it suggests a partial rethink of the guest list on the show is in order. You’ve got a great combination with Rick, Doc, Chris and Gary regarding daily commentaries.
Sometimes I would rather listen to a more extended interview with Doc or Rick for instance on their views on the longer term than listening to some of these salesman type pundits, many of whom are mere self-promoters and don’t know any more than me.
It’s a pain listening to some of these other guys talk and talk and thinking they know less than the listener; they are just blagging it as we say in the UK. A lot of them were latecomers and jumped on the bandwagon – but I won’t name names.
It’s good to have a wide palette of guests but some could be well left out.
Riddle me this O wise ones.
China reports no export of gold.
Their new announced gold reserves barely account for buying of internal production.
So what happened to exports out of Hong Kong into China?