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We should be watching sentiment in gold over everything else

September 18, 2015

Gary is here to focus on gold and why he thinks sentiment is the main factor to watch for this increase. With sentiment hitting 13% on Tuesday he says there is a lot of room to run up.

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

***Guys we are busy recording the weekend show and it is hard to stay on top of all these attacking comments (which we are deleting all back and forth). Please ignore each other so we can focus on the show.

Thank you and everyone have a great weekend!

Cory

Discussion
110 Comments
    Sep 18, 2015 18:20 AM

    `IP address will be totally blocked`

    Thank you Jesus and Sarah

      Sep 18, 2015 18:35 AM

      Thanks for the housekeeping rules, Big Al. If I ever get too passionate about expressing my views, please let me know before banning me. I appreciate this site.

        Sep 18, 2015 18:59 AM

        In other words, if God or Jesus is mentioned in your post
        its not welcome.

        Irwin, thats not thank you Jesus.

        Unfortunately, the world has decided to reject everything
        good and holy.

        The road to destruction is now paved. Major destruction
        will ensue in our near future. Thanks to these heresies.

        So don’t be shocked when it happens. Woe is you.

          Jay
          Sep 18, 2015 18:09 AM

          I like Ricky Gervais s comment: “Thank God for making me an atheist/ 🙂

            Sep 18, 2015 18:32 AM

            Can’t agree with that one, but He did give us free will!

            Sep 18, 2015 18:34 AM

            You need to read Martin Luther’s “Bondage of the Will”

          Sep 18, 2015 18:40 AM

          I thought the religious troll idiot was gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…wtf

            Sep 18, 2015 18:50 AM

            Only a click away.

            http://www.angerdetox.org/

            Sep 18, 2015 18:06 AM

            The PATH IS WIDE……………..

            Sep 18, 2015 18:32 AM

            I told you that JJ was trapped here and could never leave, just like the rest of us.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:15 PM

            JJ…..if I am right he won’t be here much longer. In the meantime we should take Rick Ackerman’s message to heart: The trolls hate to be ignored. They thrive on attention. Best we just pretend he does not exist until his IP is nuked for good.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:27 PM

            Maybe you never got the message.

            You would be doing me a favor.

            Besides, new ISP’s are a dime a dozen.

            Wouldn’t waste my time either.

            Why is that ??? Away from the lies
            and fraud.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:34 PM

            Ha Ha..one phone call and its changed.

            No cost either. However, not worth my time.

            Bye !!!! !!

            Sep 18, 2015 18:53 PM

            BTW…enjoy your key board.

            While I’m making all the use
            of my time.

            Training at the club and the
            gym. Enjoy your strength
            training playing on your
            plastic keys..Listener.

            HA !!! Champs are made, not born.

            Keep staring at your screen. and Dream on !!!!

          Sep 18, 2015 18:43 PM

          OK. Who left the basement door open again? Fess up …

            Sep 18, 2015 18:19 PM

            “Who’s that Spartan in my TeePee? – It’s me! It’s me!”

            http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/spartan-cheerleaders-at-a-chess-tournament/n10803

            Sep 18, 2015 18:26 PM

            For some reason that question about who left the basement door open, triggered that sketch in my mind about who the Spartan was in their TeePee.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:20 PM

            Man … that is one of the BEST SNL sketches I have ever seen.
            A young Will Ferrel being very funny … a shadow of his own-self today, maybe?

            Sep 18, 2015 18:37 PM

            Just a little humor for the day. 🙂

            Everyone just needs to chill out and smile and not take it all so seriously.

          Sep 18, 2015 18:59 PM

          Glad to see you again HH. I couldn’t agree with you more. Its the world we live in now.

        Sep 18, 2015 18:31 AM

        thanks Wiseguy!

        Jay
        Sep 18, 2015 18:34 AM

        Al I agree and am glad things have been more civil as of late (for the most part) . I do think a lot of this stuff comes up every time you guys allow religion on here without any kind of misnomer (I realize you state on occasion your involvement with bible studies etc).
        As I’m sure you’re aware you have a very large audience these days, a number of which are definitely not Christian . Speaking for myself I cone here for some of the excellent debates and fantastic LOGICAL analysis put forth by yourself, Cory, and your countless intelligent and knowledgeable guests / analysts . But it’s a big turn off when things like Chris T start referencing bible quotes in an otherwise great conversation. Of course you can manage this stuff however you like as its your site but I think it’s dishonest to do so as such:
        I.e. if you decided to rename your site as say “Korelin Christian economics” or Korelin Economic report for Christians” for example,
        noone be it Muslim, atheist, agnostic, jewish or whatever could raise issue with these things being brought up.. you might lose a certain portion of your audience who are looking for unbiased and strick economic / investment info , but at least it would be honest (and I’m sure the Christian followers would be even more kereport dogmatic).

          Jay
          Sep 18, 2015 18:47 AM

          I suppose the point I’m making Al is I certainly have no prob with anyone wanting to believe that stuff if they feel it is necessary and truly makes their lives better, for myself (I can’t speak for others as perhaps their experiences are different) I’ve seen too much evidence that proves Jesus never existed for me to go back to Christianity that regardless of how the bible is quoted in the context of your blog or commentators, my view on that won’t change (as I’m sure yours won’t 😉 so why mention any of that stuff on the reports (you or Chris etc don’t need to reaffirm your Christian beliefs to yourselves and it does nothing to constructively add to the blog so why bring it up?) Jm 2c

          Sep 18, 2015 18:18 PM

          Economics lession real simple…………GO and owe no man……….got a house loan , car loan, credit card bill….Real simple CHRISTIAN ECONOMICS………

      Sep 18, 2015 18:30 AM

      And, thank you Irwin!

      Sep 18, 2015 18:13 PM

      Thanks Al. I hope you will carry through with that stern message. I am not religious but even I am bothered by the way some people use the name of Christ or God or Jesus as a tool to pull some closer and push others away. It is pure Troll behavior to use the belief systems of others against them as a weapon to manipulate the conversation.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:24 AM

    Thanks, Gary! I’m in on the long side now. Let’s ride this rocket ship!
    (Now all the contrarians feel weird being long still, LOL)

    Sep 18, 2015 18:32 AM

    Good stuff, I think Gary is going to continue to be correct.
    This bottom in the miners has been over a year in the making and I think it’s over.
    I also think we’ll get that right translated cycle that Gary mentioned and it will happen as the miners start to make new 52 week highs. This will add fuel to the move. We’ll see…
    http://schrts.co/b7aYwI

      Sep 18, 2015 18:37 AM

      GDXJ is dealing with important resistance right now:
      http://schrts.co/qcrktE

        Sep 18, 2015 18:52 AM

        Bollinger Band resistance:
        http://schrts.co/dSjjjQ

          Sep 18, 2015 18:30 PM

          Good charts Matthew. Thanks for posting them.

        Sep 18, 2015 18:55 AM

        It’s also overbought on the Ultimate Oscillator and hitting the top bollinger band. http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui

        I’m not super gung ho about JNUG right now. I hesitate holding it as I go on a cruise all next week (no Internet). I think I’ll hold my buy of SBGL though. What do you think about Sibanye Gold now, Matthew?

          Sep 18, 2015 18:06 AM

          I don’t follow SBGL but after a look at the “key stats” at Yahoo and the chart, it looks like a good company to me.
          With their debt and modest profit margin, I would be ready to get out completely if you think gold is going to a much lower low. I do not think gold is going to do that but either way, I believe we have a rally ahead first.

          Sep 18, 2015 18:31 PM

          Wiseguy what did you think of them buying those platinum mines lately?

      Sep 18, 2015 18:40 AM
    Sep 18, 2015 18:33 AM

    Btw, the charts that Bird Listener knocked the hell out me for are considered the charts of the year and decade by Morris Hubbartt.
    http://www.superforcesignals.com/video/2015sept17gdxj/2015sept17gdxj.html

      Sep 18, 2015 18:38 AM

      Good work Matthew. Cheers !

        Sep 18, 2015 18:45 AM

        Thanks; cheers!

          Sep 18, 2015 18:18 PM

          Tag team (they are both the same guy!).

            Sep 18, 2015 18:30 PM

            That’s some shoddy analysis. No wonder you don’t know what to do with a price chart.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:39 PM

            Gabriel and Matthew, sitting in a tree……………………. K-I-S-S-I-N-G.

            Smooooooch!

      Sep 18, 2015 18:40 PM

      Matthew knows this, but maybe no one else does (except me)

      The only way you could TRULY understand how the junior PMs have moved significantly upwards, relative to gold (the metal) and the big PM companies, is to ACTUALLY OWN THEM . All of my PM stocks are green since my accumulation starting in November, 2014. Period.

      So .. we’ll see what gold does on Monday, but more importantly, what will the SPECIFIC STOCKS YOU OWN do on Monday?

      (NOTE: CAPS LOCK key used for yelling and emphasis on PURPOSE)

        Sep 18, 2015 18:56 PM

        +1

        Sep 18, 2015 18:38 PM

        Great comment Brian, as that is all that really matters.

        I’ve had a nice amount of green in my mining stocks the last few days and they’re all at a profit. Most of them are the Jr Miners, but there are a few mid-tiers mixed in.

          Sep 18, 2015 18:45 PM

          BTW – I really like Morris Hubbartt and appreciate Matthew for posting the video above.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:10 PM

            Overall it’s been the trend all year that the Jrs have outperformed the Sr miners. However, I think as prices recover it will be the small producers and near term producers that do best. Good luck to all in their investing next week.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:37 AM

    as I said in last post gary, gold will lumber up till weekend.In view of fed move this gold move is anything but overwhelming. this call of yours is no different than others where you were convinced gold as well as oil hit some grand cycle lows.
    Gold is up roughly 3% or so from it’s most recent low up to the 1140 area, not exactly the blow off you speak to. I will come back mid next week to hear you hedge your call as before and subsequently blame phantom powers manipulating gold down once again.

    Yes gold will have its time but not now, best bet for a reasonable rally is the traditional year end period following a October sell down.

      Sep 18, 2015 18:08 AM

      LOL JJ cjhanged his name and he’s back already.

      I’ll say it again. All I’ve called for over the last year and a half is an intermediate degree rally. Just bear market rallies while gold works it’s way down to test 1030.

      That test is complete. Now it’s time to go the other way. But as of this moment right now I’m still assuming this is a bear market rally. I need to see a couple of things first before I will be prepared to call the final bear market low. First gold needs to deliver a right translated intermediate cycle complete with a higher high. Second it needs to generate three advancing daily cycles. And third it needs to make a higher intermediate low at the next ICL. If those three things happen then I will guarantee the bear market is over.

      You need to quit listening to Armstrongs nonsesne. He’s just a trend follower. When gold was going up he was predicting $5000 by 2015. Now that gold is going down he’s of course predicting gold will continue to go down. He’s not the one you want to listen to to call the bottom of the bear market.

        Sep 18, 2015 18:37 AM

        wow gary you really are an idiot! I’ll take Armstrongs computer advice over some subscription hack like you any day!!

        You don’t rate to even mention Armstrong as he was the biggest gold trader (market maker) in the 70-80’s yet you don’t even have the balls to follow your own advice and short the pm’s sector when you were calling for a big drop in the summer, Avi did and so did I coming away with 130% gains!!

        get your manipulation speech ready when gold rolls over before reaching your targets jut as it always has

          Sep 18, 2015 18:22 PM

          Not wanting to get into any arguments here jj but Gary has been awesome lately. Maybe its just his time or maybe the angels are smiling on him but I really appreciate the great calls he has been making lately.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:38 PM

            Couldn’t agree more A.L. but I have no time for cycle subscription guru’s who toss disrespect to someone who has forgotten more about trading and global markets than Gary will ever know, reminds me of the hecklers at a sporting event yelling at the pro your a bum, really who is sitting in the bleachers!

            I’m long since the 14th nothing to do with Gary

            Sep 18, 2015 18:41 PM

            You are a great trader man. I always appreciate your input and insights.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:15 PM

            Ha! She must be one hot mama!

            Sep 18, 2015 18:18 PM

            LOL. Here we go again. JJ is long from the 14th. Always in hindsight do we hear about these perfect entries at exact bottoms.

            If you ever call a trade in real time I will be amazed. But you know the rules… if you don’t make the call in real time then it never happened. So I’m going to call BS on this imaginary trade on the 14th.

            The rest of us have to make our calls in real time so you are going to have to follow the same rules.

            Sep 18, 2015 18:58 PM

            gee Gary your really not that sharp are you, apply the Slow STO to GOLD, $HUI, $GDM, GDX, GDXY, NUGT and JNUG….a BUY signal was given on the 14th sorry your cycle call didn’t see it, heck even the basic MACD suggested buying on the 14th with NUGT and JNUG, sorry! nothing imaginary Gary the indicator turn is real for those of us who use the SS for buy signals and MACD for exiting a position. oh and I did post I was long days ago OPEN your eyes! as I posted the chart.

            Never hear my crying manipulation to failed calls

          Sep 18, 2015 18:15 PM

          jj…do you have electricity in that cave yet…how do you power the computer ?…..

            Sep 18, 2015 18:18 PM

            your Mrs

            Sep 18, 2015 18:16 PM

            Ha! She must be one hot mama!

            Sep 18, 2015 18:16 PM

            I see, Al endorses these guys referring to others’ wives as “hot mamas.” Classy!!!

            Sep 18, 2015 18:51 PM

            Sheesh…its called a sense of humour. We need a little relief around here. Don’t you think?

    Sep 18, 2015 18:43 AM

    Greetings from Greece Gary !!!

    Sep 18, 2015 18:53 AM

    Actually many good looking charts on gold. Good trade in here!?

      Sep 18, 2015 18:40 AM

      I agree but would rather buy the miners.

    bb
    Sep 18, 2015 18:54 AM

    Anyone know the Dollar amount of the 100 week moving average for gold?

    Sep 18, 2015 18:01 AM

    Great to hear Big Al keep religion out of making money!!…it ruined this economic site

    Gold and Silver both hit key resistance zones today at $1142 and $15.50 with that key level proving resistance again (so far) I sold 1/3 of my position in JNUG with 36% gains since a buy was suggested Sept 14th and 1/3 of NUGT with 30% gains at the resistance zone big resistance zone on the yen chart which is the driver of gold (not manipulation) yen next week will need to leave 84.30 level behind if gold is going to test next resistance zone above $1142 @ $1166-69

    AXU was a buy Sept 1st at .31 before its big move to .49, still no sign to sell

      Sep 18, 2015 18:20 PM

      AXU chart now suggests taking some profits off the recent 50% swing

    Sep 18, 2015 18:02 AM

    How many licks does it take? Well, three, of course.
    http://schrts.co/hpvwkm

    Sep 18, 2015 18:24 AM

    Stock Market gonna go down and retest the last lows. Might even keep going for a 20%er.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:25 AM
    Sep 18, 2015 18:33 AM

    Gary,
    I agree that many or most commodities have bottomed. However, gold and oil have more downside for several weeks.

      Sep 18, 2015 18:45 AM

      I agree chartster.This just a bear market rally aka bull trap.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:41 AM

    “Confessions of a horse handicapper”

    Or “How I won 80k betting the Travers Stakes and how it relates to you and your gold”

    It seems clear these days traders, or speculators, aren’t content to just trade; now they need to write confessions, biographies or memoirs.

    Never one to miss opportunity to put pen to paper I think it is time I join the club.

    After reading some of these confessions (although honestly I’m not exactly sure what was confessed) I walked away not much better off or edified from where I began.

    Most of these dissertations were ordinary and stale to say the least as far as content was concerned. They didn’t even have a good tale or turn of phrase.

    For those of you who do not suffer from attention deficit order, this confession just might give you some thing the others lacked – an education.

    So if you are willing to set aside some time and some pre conceived notions then read on.

    Let me warn you though – there are no love triangles, affairs, robberies or murders in this confession. Just some good old speculating advice.

    The 146th edition of the Travers Stakes featured the Triple Crown winner American Pharoah.

    Most people have heard of the horse, even if they are not racing fans.

    After winning the Triple Crown, the first horse to do so in thirty seven years, American Pharoah became a media darling.

    Following up his Triple Crown triumph with another impressive win in the Haskell at Monmouth Park New Jersey, they flew American Pharoah (AM) back to his home base in California, 20,000 miles away, and then his owner entered him in the Travers Stakes, the most prestigious race at the Saratoga meet, and one of the most import races on the calendar. It goes without saying it is a very coveted race.

    American Pharoah’s owner, being a true racing fan, wanted to showcase his horse in Saratoga’s oldest and grandest race, and I salute him for that.

    Word on the backstretch though was his trainer Bob Baffert wanted to give his horse a little more rest and carve out a different schedule for him.

    Obviously the owner trumps the trainer in most cases.

    Of course if Baffert was dead set against it they wouldn’t have run the horse, but it wasn’t his first choice.

    Regardless they brought the horse to Saratoga Springs from California, AP (American Pharoah)
    home base, all 20,000 miles away.

    As stated earlier APs last race prior to the Travers Stakes was the Haskell Stakes at Monmouth Park.

    Keen Ice ran second that day, beaten by 2 1/4 lengths by AP.

    Now you need to be able to relate what I am about to say to your own experiences.

    When AP won the Kentucky Derby in early May besides displaying his raw talent, he was also displaying his precociousness.

    Many talented three year olds just aren’t ready for the big time in the Spring, but by late Summer they have grown into themselves.

    Isn’t this just like people. Some adolescents mature early, and are faster, stronger, bigger.
    Some need another year or two to fill out their frame and figure out what the game is all about.

    My point is the same horses AP was beating up on in the Spring were improving by late summer and closing the gap.

    But most people don’t understand this.

    Now the second point I want to mention also calls for you to relate to your own personal observation as well.

    AP beat Keen Ice by 2 1/4 lengths in the Haskell.

    Now any horse could improve by three lengths from one race to the next, and any horse could digress by three lengths from one race to the next.

    Don’t you observe this with professional human athletes as well?

    How often do you see a major league pitcher toss a 2 hit shutout, and then get bombed in his next start?

    Jonathan Spieth, this years Masters winner was in an unbelieve zone.
    Now he can’t even make the cut.

    The point is all athletes bounce, or perform in cycles.

    So it is perfectly reasonable to see Keen Ice improve by three lengths, and AP digress by three lengths. That is a six length swing. Even if KI only improved by one length and AP only digressed by one length they are basically even.

    The third point I want to make once again will ask you to think of your own experience as well.

    AP is a horse, not a machine.

    I said his home base is in California.

    This horse has really put on some frequent flyer miles.

    He went from California to Kentucky, to Baltimore, to New York, back to California, to New Jersey, back to California, and finally back to New York.

    What would that do to you?

    Needless to say a schedule like that could wreck havoc on a young three year old colt.

    Is the picture starting to look clearer?

    You have an over hyped three year old, who has been battling in one tough race after the other since May, traveling all over the country and another improving three year old who is flying under the radar.

    Now all this wouldn’t mean anything if you were getting attractive enough odds to compensate for the risk you are assuming betting AP. But you are not.

    Instead, because of his media attention due to his Triple Crown win you are getting terrible odds.

    So now we must switch gears and talk about risk and reward. This is the whole crux of it.
    VALUE.

    I will try to keep things simple.

    We all know from basic mathematics and experience and observation that if you have all of something you have 100% of it.

    If you have eight slices you have the whole pizza pie, you have all 100% percent.
    If you have all the marbles, you have 100% percent.

    Simple.

    So all of something must equal 100%

    All the money bet on the Travers must be 100%

    All the money is the pool of money. The total pool is 100%.

    Now here is how we determine value. By using the other crux or pillar of successful speculating
    EDGE.

    Haven’t I been saying forever it’s all about value and edge?

    Edge is being privy to VALUABLE information that no one else has OR applying the same information everyone has in the correct way.

    We all had the same information that day, but only a handful of professionals like myself applied the information correctly.

    Most of the people that made up the 100,000 in attendance and millions more off track were novice racing fans looking for a good time and looking to see the great AP do it again.

    They were willing to put down $2 or $20 on AP and root

    By using my years of experience I was able to take advantage of this situation and exploit it for my own personal reward.

    Keep in mind I also said VALUABLE information. Not junk.

    There are some people on this site advocating you need to listen to everyone and make up your own mind. Nonsense.

    That is the exact OPPOSITE of what you are supposed to do.

    Why would I want to listen to someone who has no clue what they are doing and has a horrible track record?

    Dennis Gartman is a perfect example.

    Every other day CNBC parades him out and most of the time the market goes in the opposite direction of what he is predicting. It is becoming a running joke.

    Do I really want to listen to Dennis Gartman? I think not.

    Now getting back to value and edge.

    I need to use my edge to determine value.

    Note in this case only the basic simplistic information was enough to give me an edge.

    I didn’t even need to take into account speed figures, pace scenario, track and distance preferences or a host of other next level data.

    So how do I use my edge to determine value?

    It goes back to the concept of 100% of something being all of something.

    There were ten horses who ran in the Travers Stakes, so all the money bet on those horses make up the total pool.

    The betting public made AP the overwhelming 1-5 favorite.

    Now what does that mean?

    Remember always think in terms of the % not the price.

    What does 1-5 mean?

    It means that 83.33% of the money was bet on AP to win.

    The betting public (the amateurs, casual fans, novices…) were giving AP a 83.33% chance of winning the race.

    Basically they were saying if they ran this race one hundred times, AP would win it eighty three times.

    Technical they are saying if they ran this race ten thousand times AP would win it 8333 times.

    The betting public made KEEN ICE 16-1

    Again what does that mean?

    It means 5.88% of the total money was bet on KEEN ICE to win.

    Again in essence the betting public was assigning a 5.88% chance of KEEN ICE winning.

    There were eight other horses who were all bet on as well with varying degrees of money and probability of winning as well. But we are keeping it simple.

    So now as a professional we must determine if AP 83.33% chance of winning and KEEN ICE 5.88% chance of winning is fair. In other words is the market EFFICIENT?

    Obviously based on what I have been saying the answer is a resounding no.

    After a long grueling campaign that saw AP fly all over the country, competing against top class horses at different tracks and different distances AP was due for at least a sub par effort.

    Combine that with an improving colt in KEEN ICE who was almost on level ground with AP and you have all the makings of an upset.

    So the public’s book has 83.33 and 5.88 assigned to these two horses.

    What does a professional do?

    He makes his own book.

    Based on my handicapping criteria I determined AP should be even money.
    Meaning AP has a 50% chance of winning.
    Meaning if they ran this race 100 times he should win half of them.

    I also determined KEEN ICE should be 5-1, meaning he has a 16.66% chance of winning.

    Do you see where the value comes in? It should be obvious.

    I am assigning a 16.66% chance of winning to KEEN ICE, and the public is assigning a 5.88% chance.

    That is 10.79% discrepancy in my favor.

    I have a 10.79% value.

    That is the bet!

    When a professional can get over a 10% percentage advantage that is a very attractive bet.

    Keep in mind I never said KEEN ICE was the better horse. The truth of the matter is AP probably is the better horse.

    But KEEN ICE is the better bet.

    Also keep in mind that according to my calculations AP had a 50% chance of winning and the public made him 83.33%

    That is a huge 33.33% disadvantage.

    If you keep making bets like that you end up in the poor house.

    Keep in mind all I mentioned was value and edge. I didn’t talk about sentiment and fundamentals (except to how it relates to gleaming an edge and determining value)

    KEEN ICE WON THE RACE AND PAID $34 TO WIN

    I BET $5000 TO WIN ON KEEN ICE FOR A RETURN OF $85,000 AND A PROFIT OF $80,000

    Now besides value and edge I want to discuss one other point that is not insignificant.

    If this was a typical mediocre or average race run at a rinky dink track on a Tuesday night instead of stakes race on a Saturday at Saratoga the win pool would have been much smaller.

    My $5000 bet in a $100,000 pool would have had more of an impact on the odds than my $5000 bet in a million $ pool.

    With that in mind you must always have a sense of the pool size or volume you are betting into.

    So what does all this have to do with gold and investing? Much.

    The last few weeks many analysts have been debating whether or not we have bottomed in gold.

    Some people are in the camp we are at or near the bottom.
    Others are in the camp we have one more drop to go.

    The purpose of this article is not to pick sides.

    These analysts are using either sentiment, or Elliot Wave, or some combination thereof.

    Others are investing in gold based on “the fundamentals”

    THE ONLY CRITERIA FOR SPECULATING IS VALUE AND EDGE.

    Gold is not an investment, it is a speculation.

    You are speculating on the direction of the price, pure and simple.

    Now there are analysts who think they are being contrarians because they argue the sentiment is very low. They are not.

    The sentiment has already been priced in.

    Just because sentiment is low does not give you a green light to take the other side of the trade.

    Detroit housing is a bust. The sentiment is as low as it gets.
    Does that mean it is a good investment?

    Sentiment is low for a reason.

    When you walk through Detroit you can get killed.
    There are no street lights or police.

    Sentiment is low for a reason – it is a lousy area.

    Sure the are giving houses away for $500
    You want to buy one? Be my guest.
    Pack up your family and move to downtown Detroit because you want to be a contrarian.

    If you manage not to get mugged maybe your house will be worth something in twenty years, then again maybe it won’t.

    It is the same with gold. Sentiment is in the gutter for a reason.
    It has been a horrible investment.

    Sentiment cannot determine value.

    Let me repeat that so it will sink in for all you so called contrarians who are not contrarian at all.

    Sentiment cannot determine value.

    Fundamentals cannot determine value either.

    The only question that needs to be answered is WHAT IS AN OUNCE OF GOLD WORTH?

    If you try to quantify this using “the fundamentals” you are hopelessly confused.

    If Janet Yellen raises short term interest rates 1/4 of a point how does that answer what the price of gold should be? It doesn’t.

    If the non farms payroll report comes in low how does that answer what the price of gold should be? It doesn’t.

    Unless you can know what the price of gold should be you cannot determine if the market is efficient. And there is no way of knowing what the price of gold should be.

    The other hot topic lately is the subject of manipulation.

    Is gold manipulated?

    This is the big question.

    Do you want my short answer?

    Of course it is.

    Why should gold be an exception?

    When a boy can reach his arm behind the cash register when no one is looking and take $20 he will.

    When a CEO can cook the books to hide something or take unfair advantage he will.

    When someone can create a Ponzi scheme to con millions from people they will.

    Why would anyone think somehow gold is immune to all this?

    If you think this you should get some toys and play in the corner.

    You are either a child or very naive.

    It’s funny there is one contributor on this blog who is very quick to point out how dishonest our government is when it comes to wars and missions and how they can’t be trusted, but this same person has no problem believing that our government it completely honest when it comes to gold. Talk about a fool.

    “I don’t understand gold” – Ben Bernanke

    Several years ago in a post FOMC meeting interview with the press Ben Bernanke when asked about gold said he didn’t understand it.

    He publicly declared on national TV he didn’t understand gold, meaning he didn’t understand what drives the price of gold, it’s usefulness and its role.

    Let’s think about that.

    Here is one of the most, if not the most, important central bankers in the world stating he doesn’t understand gold.

    Let that sink in. What is he saying and what are the implications?

    Ben Bernanke is either saying,

    a) the truth and he doesn’t understand gold
    Or
    b) he is lying and he does understand gold.

    There are no other options, you can’t have it both ways.

    Let’s assume he is telling the truth, he doesn’t understand gold.

    If he doesn’t understand gold what then makes you think you can.

    Here is a man who spent his entire life in the banking industry.
    He not only knows policy, he sets it.
    He is privy to all the information the central bankers know of.

    If he truly doesn’t understand golds price action, role, utility what makes you think you can.

    I know I know there are a lot of people right now chomping at the bit shouting “I have a chart!”

    Again take your toys and go play in the corner.

    If you think you can look at a chart, the same chart everyone else has, the same chart Ben Bernanke has, you are deluded.

    Yes you will get it right once in a while.

    But as Mark Twain correctly wrote, “You can beat a race, but you can’t beat the races”

    UNLESS YOU DEMAND VALUE

    Twain was right, but not totally right!

    The bottom line is if Ben Bernanke was telling the truth and he doesn’t understand gold then neither does anyone else on this site, including me.

    If you want to deny that fact then go ahead.

    Until you learn what your limitations are you will never be successful.

    Now let’s assume he was

    b) lying and he really does understand gold.

    Now why would he lie?

    To shake people confidence in gold.

    By stating he doesn’t understand gold he is sending a subtle message that says,
    “Hey if I don’t understand gold what makes you think you can”
    “Gold is not understandable, you can’t predict its movements, it is unpredictable”
    “Gold is not a good investment, you can’t understand how it moves or responds”

    In essence that is what he is doing.

    Why would he want to do this? Again to destroy confidence in gold.

    Why?

    Because he is a central banker, and gold is the enemy.

    Yes they want gold, but they don’t want you to want it, or have it.

    So put your $2 down and pick the right horse.
    Either he is telling the truth or he is lying.
    There is no third choice.

    So if he is telling the truth and gold is not understandable then you cannot determine VALUE.

    Just like you can’t spot a counterfeit if you don’t know what the real thing looks like.

    If he is lying then you are playing in a rigged casino and VALUE has been distorted

    If it is manipulated then no chart or fundamental is going to help you.

    The purpose of this essay is not to advocate for gold or put you off gold, but rather to change your way of thinking regarding speculating and zero sum games.

    I don’t care what the asset is you must insist on VALUE and EDGE.

    Gold and silver is speculating, not investing!

    If you want to speculate fine but don’t confuse it with investing.

    All these articles floating around right now, these confessions, and memoirs, they all the miss the main point.

    Look at it is way, there is a presidential candidate right now grabbing a lot of attention, both with the media and the voters.

    You know who I am talking about, DONALD TRUMP.

    Regardless of your opinion of him, what is his claim to fame?
    What is his forte?
    The art of the deal.

    He even has a book called the art of the deal.

    What is the art of the deal?

    It is knowing when there is value.

    End of story

    It is not knowing “the fundamentals”
    It is not knowing sentiment.

    Is the thing offered (a horse, a baseball card, a Manhattan sky scraper, an ounce of gold)
    worth more than the offer?

    KEEN ICE WAS WORTH A LOT MORE THAN WHAT HE WAS BEING OFFERED AT
    I PROVED IT WITH MATHEMATICAL PROBABILITY AND EXPECTED VALUE.

    Prove to me you can value an ounce of gold just as accurately.

    You can’t

    And don’t tell me it’s what it takes to get it out of the ground, or money supply.

    That is incomplete, and inaccurate at best.

    Again I am not telling you what to do.

    If you want to take a flyer on gold go for it.

    If it’s true about the COMEX warehouses maybe it will blow up.

    I like longshots as well as the next guy.

    But don’t feed me some crap about investing in it, or using it for insurance.

    The truth of the matter is gold and silver have been dreadful “investments”

    They have been beaten up so bad the market is completely broken.

    If you never owned an ounce of gold and you are thinking of dabbling I would probably advise you to stay away. Invest in real estate and good businesses (both private and public)

    Leave gold and silver to the central planners and bullion banks to kick around.

    Long term wealth is created investing in real estate and good businesses, including quality stocks that pay dividends.

    Short term money can be made trading gold and silver, but is it simply speculating.

    There’s is no way to determine value.

    Now you might turn around and say to me that gold is bottoming, it is at long term support, sentiment indicates a bottom, and it has retraced based on Elliot Wave.

    All that may be true. However none of that has any bearing on determining if gold is undervalued.

    $1100 could end up being both the bottom and fair value.

    In which case there is no edge and hence no bet.

    If I make a horse 4-1 and the public is making it 4-1 then where’s the value?

    I don’t need that.

    In other words gold could languish at these levels for years.

    Who cares if it is a bottom? What is the upside? That is just as important, if not more so than knowing the bottom.

    This article is more about value and edge, not sentiment.

    This next explanation is a freebie…

    Earlier I said if you have all of something you have 100% of it.

    I said this to keep it simple.

    The truth of the matter is you can have more than 100% of something.

    Any speculative market, like horse racing, or sports betting, or even gold in a sense can and MUST have more than 100% of something.

    Take the race track again.

    Many people have the erroneous opinion that the track makes the odds and that the track cares who wins. This couldn’t be further than the truth.

    As mentioned earlier it is the public that makes the odds, not the track.
    And the track could care less who wins.

    Why?

    Because the track gets their money off the top.

    The track “takes” off the top because of the privilege of hosting the game.

    All zero sum games work this way.

    The market maker skims off the top.

    They don’t care who wins, as long as the money keeps churning.

    The track takes anywhere from 10% to 30% right off the top before the race is even run.

    THATS WHY HORSE RACING IS A SUCKERS GAME.

    You already have 10% to 30% the worst of it.
    Those are almost insurmountable percentage disadvantages that only a handful of professionals can overcome.

    How do we overcome it?

    Again by insisting on VALUE.

    Let’s say the track takes 10% off the top.

    When you total all the bets made on all the horses the total is not 100%, it is now 110%.

    Their book is 110%

    What does this mean?

    It means simply that for every $110 the public bets the track pays out $100
    It doesn’t matter who wins.

    The only thing the track cares about is that the handle (or volume) is big.

    The bigger the pool the bigger the take.

    This goes back to what I said earlier about volume and betting into big pools.

    So the track makes $10 for every $110 bet.

    Nice work if you can get it.

    In some instances they take as much as 30% off the top, exotic bets…

    You have to be an idiot to play these bets.

    But isn’t it the same with front running and gold?

    When you call up your gold dealer he charges you a premium over spot?

    2%, 4%, 5%, even 10% depending on availability.
    Right now silver supposedly is selling at high premiums.

    They make money on the premium and the spread.

    You buy from them 5% over spot, they buy it back from you at spot or 2% over for example.

    The spread is their profit.

    THEY DONT CARE WHAT GOLD DOES! LIKE THE TRACK.

    AS LONG AS THE MONEY KEEPS CHURNING.

    KEEP THE NARRATIVE CHANGING AND PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS BUYING AND SELLING.

    That’s the volume I talk about.

    Now let’s also explore the concept of short selling.

    Aren’t the sellers selling more than 100% of what is available.

    The only problem though, unlike the track, where they can have as much as 30% more than the total, the CRIMEX can have infinitely more than the total.

    The CRIMEX IS ACTUALLY MUCH WORSE THAN THE TRACK.

    At least the track sticks to the rules, or at least there are rules!

    Well I promised you this confession wouldn’t have any love triangles, affairs, sins from the past, or tawdry tales of sexual exploits, I hope I didn’t bore you.

    Just a brief primer on some basic concepts in speculating.

    I know there are few people on this site that already have their response.

    These people are never wrong, they must have the last word.

    They can have the last word.

    I have the profits (80k this last go round,) they can have their ego.

    Good speculating to all!

    James the Lesser

    Aka Pittsburgh Phil

    ps I’m very disappointed you didn’t know Pittsburgh Phil was me.
    I’ve referenced his name and his philosophy and methods several times and yet you didn’t connect the dots. I guess you weren’t paying attention

      Sep 18, 2015 18:22 PM

      James TL – We all knew it was you and mentioned so a few weeks back.
      Here’s a few dots to connect:
      __________________________________________________________________
      On July 24, 2015 at 3:36 pm,
      James (the lesser) says:

      The group think is we get a bounce in gold followed by one more final leg down.
      Then the big move.
      Copper the public play at all times – Pittsburgh Phil
      Patience and Guts!

      On July 25, 2015 at 1:13 pm,
      Shad says:

      It is looking that way James TL.

      On August 24, 2015 at 12:52 pm,
      Pittsburgh Phil says:

      Those taking comfort in gold today can forget about it.
      SILVER IS GETTING CRUSHED AND NOT COMFIRMING GOLD.
      The worst for stocks could be in.

      Silver, the worst investment out there, will continue to get slaughtered.
      For long term investors take a good look at a long term chart, like the 10 year.
      Golds move was nothing but a blip.

      This was not the big big move Gary was pounding the table about.
      Once again he was wrong

      • On August 24, 2015 at 1:17 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Silver is never expected to hold up as well as gold on days like this. Is James (the lesser) your identical twin? 🙂 lol

      • On August 24, 2015 at 2:25 pm,
      Shad says:

      bingo.

      On August 24, 2015 at 2:37 pm,
      Frank from moscow CCF says:

      bingo bongo…….

      • On August 24, 2015 at 9:19 pm,
      A Listener says:

      Pittsburgh Phil is actually HeavyHitter. The writing style is a dead giveaway. Double spacing, brash irrational assertions, confrontational prose and an individual attack by name. I could pick him out from a mile off.

      Hey Heavy!….hows the Rapture, man?

      • On August 24, 2015 at 9:43 pm,
      Matthew says:

      I have to disagree. I see James.

      • On August 24, 2015 at 9:43 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Al could check his IP address.

      • On August 25, 2015 at 6:37 am,
      Dick Tracy says:

      YUUUUUUUUUUUP, that’s James alright!

      • On August 25, 2015 at 1:27 pm,
      A Listener says:

      Now that you mention it….you could be right. There is no guilt or accusing fingers being pointed in that post that Heavy used to be so good at leaving.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:58 AM

    Sep 18 Dollar Shortsale & Silver Buy Signal Morris Hubbartt 321gold
    DOW probably will soon stage large rally–

    Sep 18, 2015 18:50 AM

    @PeterLBrandt
    “Might the continuation chart in Crude be building a H&S top formation — ABSOLUTELY “
    https://twitter.com/PeterLBrandt

      Sep 18, 2015 18:05 PM

      the $yen chart Peter shows is the most important chart related to the price trend for gold

        Jay
        Sep 18, 2015 18:10 PM

        That used to be true but unfortunately the yen+gold train is over with. Boj will never stop printing exponentially until the yen is dead and buried – the same cannot happen for obvious reasons to gold

          Sep 18, 2015 18:16 PM

          Jay put up a chart of yen with gold running in the background since summer of 2007, you’ll realize the currency trade between gold and yen is very much alive!

            Jay
            Sep 18, 2015 18:41 PM

            Jj I know that used to be the case (I actually posted a similar chart a few mths ago as I was thinking the same thing) but the give and take between the currencies that used to take years to decades, now takes weeks to months. The Boj is a ready threatening even more Deval and the u.s hasn’t even got to qe4 yet.
            As I earn in CAD, for myself and a number of others here, the gold bear was taken out back and shot last winter. Only from a narrow USD perspective is there any semblance of a bear still in existence and after Oct that will be put to rest once and for all imho

          Sep 18, 2015 18:19 PM

          +1
          The Euro-gold correlation isn’t what it used to be either.
          http://schrts.co/JVQbXT

            Sep 18, 2015 18:21 PM

            hasn’t been for a very long time and was never to go to over yen/gold for 8 years

            Sep 18, 2015 18:42 PM

            No, it was never anything like yen-gold but my point was that such correlations work until they don’t. The yen-gold correlation broke a year ago. It had to at some point for the reasons Jay mentioned.
            http://schrts.co/gFmf3X

            Sep 18, 2015 18:53 PM

            put up 1 month of yen/gold still dancing together and next month when BOJ adds more qe gold will be sold as the yen devalues further its still a yen carry trade gold currency trade, buy yen, buy gold, sell yen sell gold, if and its a huge if yen trades below 79 and gold closes above $1222 the dance step is over

            Sep 18, 2015 18:27 PM

            One of the things I like about Gold as a portfolio diversifier is that it isn’t always correlated to any one asset class (equities/currencies/bond/commodities), but at times it may track a certain asset class… until the narrative changes.

            It’s non-correlation is what gives it an edge at times when other sectors are in distress. The Yen/Gold correlation has been very strong, and the Euro/Gold correlation was stronger in years gone by. Now I think long term interest rates have a much different correlation with Gold that is growing, and some of the currency correlations are starting to break down a bit.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:11 PM

    GDXJ: A healthy pullback here should be bought.
    http://schrts.co/LUEStl

    Sep 18, 2015 18:28 PM

    October???
    Jamie Dimon’s Stark Rate Hike Warning: Treasurys “Will Be Violently Volatile” When Rates Rise
    Tyler Durden’s pictureSubmitted by Tyler Durden on 09/18/2015 13:34 -0400

    Barclays Bond Jamie Dimon JPMorgan Chase Prop Trading

    inShare
    2

    Earlier this year in his letter to shareholders, Jamie Dimon jumped on the bond market liquidity warning bandwagon.

    As you may recall, Dimon spoke out not only about the lack of liquidity in corporate credit markets (something which is always fun for sellsiders because it provides a nice “told you so moment” with regard to the Volcker Rule’s attempt to deter “evil” prop trading), but also about Treasury market depth and the rather disconcerting fact that six sigma events are happening in rapid succession. As a refresher, here are the notable excerpts:

    The likely explanation for the lower depth in almost all bond markets is that inventories of market-makers’ positions are dramatically lower than in the past. Dealer positions in corporate securities are down by about 75% from their 2007 peak, while the amount of corporate bonds outstanding has grown by 50% since then.

    Recent activity in the Treasury markets and the currency markets is a warning shot across the bow

    Treasury markets were quite turbulent in the spring and summer of 2013, when the Fed hinted that it soon would slow its asset purchases. Then on one day, October 15, 2014, Treasury securities moved 40 basis points, statistically 7 to 8 standard deviations – an unprecedented move – an event that is supposed to happen only once in every 3 billion years or so (the Treasury market has only been around for 200 years or so – of course, this should make you question statistics to begin with). Some currencies recently have had similar large moves. Importantly, Treasuries and major country currencies are considered the most standardized and liquid financial instruments in the world.
    Indeed, last October’s Treasury flash crash was a wake up call to quite a few market participants and served to validate two concerns we’ve been pounding the table on for years: 1) the presence of nefarious algos across markets means flash crashes are no longer anomalous but in fact part and parcel of today’s broken markets, and 2) the Fed’s move to suck every last vestige of high quality collateral out of the market has led to an acute lack of liquidity.

    Or, visually:

    Now, Dimon is back at it, warning that when (or maybe “if” is more appropriate) rates start to rise, Treasurys could sell off “violently”. Here’s more, via Bloomberg:

    Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s chief executive officer, said the bank will be prepared for the possibility that Treasury prices move violently when interest rates rise.

    “The one thing I do worry a little bit about, by the way, is Treasuries,” Dimon said Friday at a conference in New York sponsored by Barclays Plc. “Interest rates have been so low, for so long,” he said, adding that some traders and their managers have never experienced a rising interest-rate environment.

    “So I wouldn’t be shocked to see 10-year Treasuries, when rates are going up, people change their mind, they change direction, that they will be violently volatile and go up much faster than people think,” Dimon said. “I’m not predicting that. I’m simply saying in the back of my mind, I think that’s a possibility.”
    So while Dimon is worried that “some traders and their managers” have never seen a rate hike – something we warned about back in May – we’re sure no one at JP Morgan falls into that category, and besides, the bank is great at hedging tail risk…

    Sep 18, 2015 18:55 PM

    Looking at Mathew’s gdxj chart, the buy volume seems pretty anaemic at the recent low for a major bottom to have occurred.

      Sep 18, 2015 18:11 PM

      49 M shares this week, 34 M last week. Not bad.

      The first week of June 2014 was just 16 M. That kicked-off a 42% rally. For the last week of December, 2013, just 4 M traded and that kicked-off a 58% rally.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:01 PM

    Matthew two recent posts on SGT by Andrew Hoffman and Ned Scmidt spoke in direct opposites, Hoffman suggesting (12 nibs into interview) that mining shares are toast, while Schmidt said the precise opposite. You may have to scroll to an earlier session to hear Schmidt. I’d be interested to hear your comments. Best, A

    http://sgtreport.com/

      Sep 18, 2015 18:12 PM

      Thanks Andrew – as you probably know, I’m with Schmidt!

      Sep 18, 2015 18:53 PM

      Who do you believe Andrew? One guy on each of your shoulders…….but both saying different things.

        Sep 18, 2015 18:01 PM

        You tell us; you have experience with three guys inside your head!

    Sep 18, 2015 18:05 PM

    Sorry – NOT SGT – but Financial Survival network.

    http://tunein.com/radio/Financial-Survival-Network-p415063/

    Sep 18, 2015 18:02 PM

    If there are posts I don’t find interesting (religion or otherwise) I’ll just read on.

    Some folks just aren’t happy about themselves and they’ll criticize others and their methods or beliefs to try to elevate themselves up to the other person’s level to feel happy (or powerful). It’s unfortunate but it’s this world.

    Since their “light” is already out, just go to bed.

      Sep 18, 2015 18:26 PM

      well said jerrck.

    Sep 18, 2015 18:05 PM

    I don’t know the other guy at all , but I have been following Hoffman a while and he seems to be on top of his game. I wouldn’t bet against him.

      Sep 18, 2015 18:41 PM

      ‘Ranting’ Andy Hoffman has been wrong ALL the way down from gold’s former top.
      Just another charlatan screaming to buy physical metal ONLY….why?
      At least he doesn’t work for a bullion supply company….OH HANG ON !!!!!

    Sep 19, 2015 19:55 AM

    Thanks Skeeta. AH is a ranter in my book too.