Gold Price Manipulation, opinions from Big Al, Chris and Doc
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Is the price of gold manipulated?
That tells me that gold and silver are dropping when the markets are most liquid, not least liquid, since both London and NYC are open when the drop occurs. Note that all the nonsense that the conspiracy theorists come up with about a smack down in the middle of the night. Where is the smack down in the middle of the night? There isn’t one! All the long speculators are on the COMEX so they run for cover as soon as COMEX opens to lick their wounds and count their losses.
That tells me that gold and silver are dropping when the markets are most liquid. You forgot to mention before NFP, Fed speak and holidays. When the metals rise it is always regulated by the 1%-2% algo capping methods. See The MOAMOPE by James C. McShirley
324:1 is a lot of paper metal to be dumping on the market to flush the spectulators. When the specs shy away, they can lower margins to suck them back in.
September 15th they had to tweek the (“Declarations of Force Majeure”)
http://www.cmegroup.com/market-regulation/files/15-391_2.pdf
http://www.cmegroup.com/market-regulation/files/15-391_2.pdf
The price of paper contracts to buy or sell silver or gold is dropping. Paper metal and physical are not the same thing and it is foolish to believe that it is.
Please do more research. Specifically check into the daily acrivities of the LBMA working in concert with the NY globex. Look additionally at the gradual loss of the value of the US Currency from the formaion of the Federal Reserve, a private enterprise owned by private banks. Couple that with the US gaining Reserve Curtency status, massive debt levels facilitated by Nixon removing the gold backing, recognizing that every unbacked fiat currency has failed.
Then take into consideration that the Fed as well as the Federal Government has strongly resisted audit (think Ron Paul lemgthy efforts). Realizing that without a backed currency, polititians have been able to run ponzi schemes of Social Security, Medicare/medicaid, etc that ate programmed for failure.
Then add to your research the number of detegulated Acts such as Glass Steagall and other regulatory actions that have occurred that favor the bankers and Oligarchs. Plus poor Supreme Court decisions such as Citizens United that influence and control elections through wealth. Throw in a search of fraudulent derivative activity. Banking activities that threaten sovereignty , like Greece, Portugal, US etc.
Then look at actual supply and demand for gold and silver, not just from the mints or local coin shops but the world wide redistribution of actual physical such as what is being run through Swiss mints, and repoured into Chinese barsetc.
Also check the daily gold and silver daily sales, with respect to high frequency trading sales dumps daily of product in large percentages of miner prpduction. Then compare these abnormal sales against daily, weekly, monthly technical chart formations to determine if the traditional fundamentals influence the technical activity or is the pricing of gold and silver counter-intuitive.
If research of these things plus a myriad of other factors that do inuitively point to the fact that gold and silver are capped to prolong a failing currency system, ponzi scheme and corruption, then it may be worthwhile to discuss these issues with persons that do consider that there is a real government and criminal purpose to manipulate markets and deceive the public. ( I failed to suggest that research into the goals, purpose and actions of military expansion, preemptive strikes, and other acts of aggression by the US may also be useful to explain efforts to prolong the failure of the dollar).
Count on it, David!
Al…they are not looking for a better deal. The london monkey’s show up at 03:00 to start the capping process when needed. You haven’t talked to GATA in 10 years? GATA has plenty of documented evidence on gold manipulation. Contact Bill Murphy to come on the show for an interview. James McShirley has documented many times of the 1% and 2% caps on gold and the Dow.
Manipulation happens..so what? What about the miners getting laid off, investors getting ripped off so leveraged futures traders and Bullion Banks can wash & rinse the gold spectulators on a regular basis. The gold fix was rigged. A lot has changed in the last 10 years that proves the market is rigged on a regular basis.
Well said DAVE………..
I think the commentary is ……..one way thinking, going in the wrong direction.
not your commentary David, ……
Bravo David, for the same reason we incurred into Iraq in 2003, not terror or weapons of mass destruction, but to decimate Sadam’ s ploy to demand payment for oil in Euros and not dollars. 100% of the reason to war there to defend the Dollar and in Afghanistan to launder the proceeds of the heroine cartel.
When the tic rule changed, it was Katy bar the door! Of course, I wonder who initiated that cabal.
Re: Gold manipulation
Just watch this chart http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au24hr3day.html for a few months (as I have done for years) and all controversy about gold manipulation (or absence thereof) will be resolved.
I apologize for typos as it is on my iphone and closes the window for review….so I don’t catch a bunch of them.
N0 problem, David.
Added: biggest threat to an unbacked fiat currency is something that has value with no counter party risk. Corrupt governments with corrupt markets hate gold. It is that simple.
I think that you mean that they hate an asset based currency.
Government hates any limits on its’ power or authority. A long time ago in America was asked “Does Government have limits?” The answer to that around World War I and II was “no”. This is the reason government can freely intervene in all aspects of our lives today, even covertly. Gold, moral people, laws – those used to be the chains with which we used to bind those in power.
Gold market manipulation is the subject, but you get the idea.
A recognized expert in silver market manipulation is Ted Butler. He can point out his efforts in battling the CFTC. After many years he basically just refers to JPM as criminal. He is capable of providing extensive proof which he has provided to the CFTC…
I have provided a list of banking and government officials that have been criminally prosecuted for their fraudulent and criminal acts during the Bush and Obama Administrations below:
We all know the relationship between JPM and FED.
Yeah. Criminal.
LOL. Not what I mean. I mean JPM owns the FED and always behaves as FED agent as well.
Yes. They are the governments bank and the hit man for the plunge protection team along with the other insolvent banks with their trillions of off balance sheet derivatives.
Also: for those that love naked shorting without regulation, it used to be illegal manipulation. For those of you that thought the uptick rule was restrictive, it is a regulatory device that is gone also that is makes manipulation easier. And how about high frequency trading that can affect market direction instantaneously..Market manipulation. Bottomline: all markets manipulated. Most for unregulated theft. Gold and silver because they expose the theft and fraudulent fiat system.
I loved the anecdotes and historical comments Chris. It sounded like you had a lot more to say if there was more time available. Anyway, its good to hear a little push back against the chronic drumbeat of conspiracy and manipulation we are bombarded with day to day.
There are some individuals and newsletter writers in this business who will never change though no matter what arguments are put forward to counteract their childish obsession with these themes.
It only takes a few guys like you Doc and Al to represent a different point of view though so that anyone who is completely new to metals has an alternative to turn too.
Maybe the real problem is that the gold conspiracy crowd simply dominates the conversation to the extent outsiders are uncomfortable objecting to the popular thinking.
I can readily recall a few years back how much abuse was hurled at me for refusing to participate in what was then main stream thought in the gold community. anyone who disagreed was a pariah or part of the establishment. I cannot even count the number of times I was called a troll.
At that time I was almost alone in disagreeing with the most popular of commentators. And the abuse hurled at me was off the charts. I am saying there was zero support for any counter arguments I put forward.
It was really an amazing example of virulent mob behavior on some of those other sites I used to frequent. The word violence comes quickly to mind because that’s what it amounted too in my mind.
Anyway, after all these years the commotion has mostly died down. The most extreme gold bugs were punished and humiliated by market forces they could neither control nor change. And the bear market in virtually all commodities continues on. Those guys quite simply did not understand the market they claimed they had the most expertise in.
My guess all along was that those shouting loudest and hardest about how their pet trade was supposedly being unfairly clobbered by bullion banks and the Fed were for the most part holding on to positions that had soured deeply into the red.
So they had an agenda all along. But no amount of crying has changed a thing and eventually most of them faded away through capitulation and exhaustion. Now if we can only get Gary on board and get him to stop propagating the same old tiresome manipulation nonsense we might actually have made real progress!
Looks to me like gold is going to retest 1045 in the next couple days so we may have a setup to finally get long again for a bounce. But we shall see. In my case I won’t be trying to guess the market prior to the 16th. The risk is too high.
If anyone here cares to look you will see that WTI is currently right on an important falling diagonal support line (weekly futures chart) that could result in a healthy bounce this week.
I appreciate there are those who insist we are heading to 30 dollars or less but it won’t be before an oversold bounce comes into play. Anyway, something to keep an eye on for those of you here (like myself) that prefer short term trades.
Weekly chart of WTI at Finviz.com (but take note that Brent Crude already broke down on the same chart so there is no guarantees this support level will hold)
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=CL&p=d1
In that case …buy junk bonds. Having a sale at the moment. Why would that be in this great Central Bank driven economy.
Thanks but no thanks David. That’s just gambling at a time like this. Have you seen the charts?
Anyway, just an added comment on Brent Crude. I would suggest to readers here to take a peak at the monthly chart before getting sold on the idea a whole lot more downside is about to take place there.
Brent crude has now arrived almost perfectly at a bottom that goes all the way back to 1999. Should that MAJOR support hold there can be little doubt that the bear market in crude is at an end.
Certainly we will see a bounce but as always we cannot know if the chart will ultimately post a lower low in line with the great deflation that has gripped most of the commodity sector.
I encourage all to watch this particular chart though because it is one of the most important right now for signaling whether a rate hike cycle will succeed or not and whether the end of the bear market has yet arrived or not.
Monthly chart of Brent Crude futures — Finviz.com
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=QA&p=m1
Just one more point.
At this time there are RECORD spec shorts on crude oil. That friends is virtually always a recipe for an epic thundering squeeze and potentially fantastic rewards for others who take the opposite side of the trade.
So just a heads up to all those who are buying into the popular current theme that oil is going to keep dropping until the world is broken…..well I have a few words of warning to you.
Virtually every single time we have seen just such a situation arise (whether that is in stocks or any other commodity) the outcome is that the majority of people will be caught wrong-footed and will get their arses handed to them on a platter.
So pay attention.
WTI is on important weekly support….Brent is on mulit-year support. Sentiment is as bad as it can get and there are a record number of short positions in the sector who are in all likelihood about to get the snot kicked out of them.
So be careful out there. Confirmation bias is not a great way to play such a trade.
Why are there record shorts. Wouldn’t have anything to do with Saudi and Russia and the manipulation of the oil markets for political rather than fundamental reasons would it. These shorts wouldn’t be naked shorts would they. These shorts probably don’t have the capability to deliver if called on their shorts do they. Sounds like manipulation…possibly on a daily basis. Fraud maybe?
Sentiment David. All shorts will eventually cover. So far it’s been a great trade for anyone in it. But I think its almost time to take profits. Not many are in that camp to be sure which is why more are climbing aboard daily. But it is now just a matter of time before a reversal comes and those late to the party who tried to chase this thing down are going to take losses.
But what do i know? Being early as a contrarian can make you look foolish too!
Fraud more like it David……..
Oil is in a price war. Countries like Saudi and Russia is dumping their oil. Even US has been flooding the market, but now production is dropping due to terrible loss. Oil is a market 2% over supply comes with big impact. In addition, wall street reversed the trade had a immediate impact. This price war was in plan at least 10 months before it happened. One of my tenant’s husband worked in Saudi in an oil service company. He said from the early 2014, Saudi doubled the drilling so his company made a lot money. So this price war is pre planned. I will continue untill Saudi cannot continue. Fortunately, Saudi is facing wars. Things can change quickly.
It instead of I. Sorry.
You are echoing what Avi just said.. thanks bird-
Humor…
I was being serious.
Humor was in response to my own comment of buying junk bonds. Second Fund of junk bonds went down this AM. Algos in charge this morning triggering stops. Have a nice ” manipulated” week everyone.
Heads up for Doc.
The Shanghai has just moved above its 50 day and is posting a modest double bottom that formed in November / December. Not sure why you keep wanting to get short this thing because since you first mentioned that idea the trend has been up overall.
I suspect the continuing Yuan devaluations are just going to amplify this upward trend for the next while so I will not be interested in selling off any longs just yet.
I may start to look adding some Chinese stocks like some environment and solar stock. But China always have a problem of over issuance of new IPO. I had a good luck of selling at the top but reluctant to get back in.
Anyone alive out there this morning?
With gold and silver both off for one more Monday I can hardly blame you for keeping your heads low. I have a chart to wake everyone up though. Its a beauty as they so often are these days.
It’s a chart from ZH courtesy of Merril Lynch of Junk Bond effective yield. And just look at that lovely fat bottom its posting thus assuring any doubters out there that something big is about to change a lot of outlooks on the markets.
Draw your own conclusions. I think 2016 is going to be ……..uhmmmmm….interesting!
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/12/CCC%20effective%20yield.jpg
Junk bond is a walking dead. Major defaults are coming unless government bail them out. Bird, do you know of any good short side fund?
I am looking in to it later today. There is one called SJB but I don’t know too much yet except its an inverse HY ETF.
So what else is happening today? Well. being on the other side of the globe I am usually wide awake during the pre-market so I get a nice view of whats happening without having to set the clock.
Today is interesting to me in a way as some of the larger volumes are in big names and all are in modest decline. Companies like Apple, Facebook, Ebay and Microsoft. This may be the early signs of traders taking profits before Wednesday comes. Its no big deal yet but it is a change of pace from other mornings so I thought I would mention it.
Here is the early morning recap of the action thus from via ZH.
Just what the world needed…..almost 3% more peeled off WTI and the markets are not even open yet. There has GOT to be a bottom out there somewhere!
Futures Resume Slide After Oil Tumbles Below $35, Natgas At 13 Year Low; EM, Junk Bond Turmoil Accelerates
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-14/futures-resume-slide-after-oil-tumbles-below-35-natgas-13-year-low-em-junk-bond-turm
My stinky bit for husky energy is hit on the market open. Husky is an integrated company owned by LKS, the HK billionaire. It has been operating very conservatively. This price is unreal. When I bought it first time on cnd $25 I felt lucky, now I got it at 14.2. This is getting scary. I am really worried about everything is going to collapse here in Alberta. Many people I know have stayed home for many months or even over a year. It has’t been this bad since late 80s.
Charles Hughs Smith weighs in on the topic of whether or not oil is at a tradeable bottom by bringing up a really interesting chart of the Gold / Oil ratio for clues about what may be coming next.
Well worth the read I think as he points out that particular ratio is now at an extreme of 30 and either gold must fall further or oil must rise for balance to come back to the chart.
Is Oil Close to a Tradable Bottom? — OfTwoMinds — Charles Hughs Smith
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec15/oil12-15.html
Note to Charles….take a look at silver futures on a weekly chart. They are projecting all the way down to something like 11 dollars if silver stays within its declining channel and that suggests gold is also going much lower.
In other words, the Gold / Oil ratio may be about to change by a combination of rising oil and falling gold.
Hello Bird,
Silver at $11 ????
Yummy…. Orders are lined-up.
Otherwise, there’s plan B. 🙂
Best as alway,
LPG
Kind of looks like it LPG. Nothing seems improbable anymore in the resource space. Actually we are not that far away from 11 right now. Certainly not in the large scheme since the peak. What’s plan B?
Bird, both oil and silver are on a price which can kill producers efficiently. Do you think so? Gold still allows some profitable companies. The killing off of supply has to impact the chart soon. Price cannot drop to zero since no one will make them.
Hopefully all these posts of mine are not getting on anyone’s nerves. It’s just that you guys are all still sleeping and I have a lot of time on my hands this morning. Actually, its not morning here. Its almost dinner time for me.
Mmmmm…chicken stew in a milk and garlic butter sauce.
I can hardly wait.
Just for giggles take a look at how oversold this Nat Gas ETF is.
…or how overbought this negative Nat Gas ETF is.
Natural gas is in a chronic over supply even before the oil decline. It is a result of chasing shale oil and NGL, natural gas liquid. Dan, how do you feel as a non oil gas guy in Calgary? Any one you know lost job?
I was chatting to a guy I know who works in the oil industry and he mentioned that a big off-shore project that they had planned for next year was cancelled today.
He alternates between Oz and the Middle East so I suspect he means a project in the Middle East as I don’t think that Oz has any off-shore oil.
Off shore oil is expensive but production is huge. Only good price of oil can justify it. Our Alberta oil sand is the same. All of the planned oil sands projects are also cancelled. Shell just cancelled its ongoing Carman Creek oil sand project, which has an estimated cost of 4 billion Canadian dollars, I heard. My son was working on it as summer student. I don’t recall any ongoing oil sand project not cancelled. In the future no large new project in Alberta will be on-line since the NDP government is against it. The new carbon tax will make any new project a sure loser. At same time, shale oil will be fading off soon. Only conventional oil may survive this price but its production has peaked in 2005 and on the decline. I guess conventional oil is around 72-75 million barrels a day and oil consumption is 93 million barrels a day now. Once this is all over, I am not sure where we can get the new oil supply. Demand is still growing but the supply glut by a few countries really mess things up.
So is that why the Keystone was cancelled Lawrence? Because of the climate change agenda? Basically they just don’t want that dirty oil at any cost because the plan is to shutter some kinds of production.
Warren Buffett is happy to ship it at a cost. I don’t agree that oil sand is dirty. If you go there, you will see that dirty land brought by earth rupture million years ago is cleaned up by producing oil and the land is returned to beautify arable land. This process cleans up the pollution brought by nature. Many years ago, people were talking about installing two nuclear power plants to generate energy in order to heat up the water. They should have done it. Instead cheap natural gas killed the initiative. If we use nuclear, there is be absolutely no green house gas burned.
It is the Canadian and Alberta government to blame. They haven’t done anything to allow Alberta oil producers to ship the oil to where it is wanted or refine it here. It is a failure of governance.
BTW, we are more interested in economy not morality anyway. Otherwise weapon producers should be on the chopping block first.
I, and almost everyone I know is still working but I haven’t been in the oilfield since 1986. My wife and an in-law are both employed but have had either no pay increase or bonuses, or reduced hours.
We have had a lot of ex-oilfield employees apply and have had the odd one work out. This city is still buzzing somehow. Maybe because of the 4.5 Billion that will be spent on Light Rail Transit in the next while to save our asses.
I noticed the malls are still busy. Borrowing 6.1 billion next year by the province is also very “creative”. All the best to you.
The problem is that if the PPT waits until the problem is “extreme” then it’s too late to stop it. I believe the world changed in 2009. That was the end of free markets. The powers that be learned their lesson in 2008/09. They learned they need to be proactive, not reactive.
What do you think about rate hike Gary?
Hear, Hear!
I’m thinking gold prices have been part and parcel of derivatives trades in the options markets since July 2010. A new derivative aught to have started July, 2015, topping out the market in November. What is meant to occur is that gold prices are meant to fall into yet another downwards ‘skew’.
The problem is that interest rates are declining while corporate rates are rising, suggesting that gold prices are to advance as long as interest rates remain below inflation.
The whole of the financing of gold sales becomes more difficult, since lease rates(which are no longer reported) are presumably not favourable to leasing gold. Very probably ETFs are providing the shortfall through redemptions, though how much gold they actually hold and what they’re reporting at any given time should also see differences.
A strong sign that central banks are involved is the Indian government making moves towards seizure. But if you look at the Royal Canadian Mint’s information sheet, there’s nothing there that says they are doing differently than any other government repository for gold.
At the very least, TLT has broken out at the close of the week:
Has it really been………..7 yrs. of ZIRP……(zero interest rates). That is a long time.
This has been a one way street for the Fed.banksters. They have truly stole the moneys in the citizens account.
Please get Gary back on regularly
I think Gary is fed up with the constant harassment
******* BOTTOM LINE…….GOLD IS BEING MANIPULATED BY OBAMA AND THE FED PERIOD! *******
And we all know the reasons why…………..nobody is stupid!
Obama is Nero, and the fed is the torch……………
Not the FED, but the Exchange Stabilization Fund ( ESF)run by the Trasury( Goldman Sachs)
SO, we have a two headed torch………..lol
It’s as simple as that!
Mark…..please take your meds……. The establishment doesn’t like to have their status quo question.
Heaven forbid that anyone would think the degenerates would manage the price of paper gold for their benefit.
Remember it all happens by chance……first there was nothing…..then bang!…..there was something.
PLEASE…………take your meds first!
I’m not going to come on here and be dumb like so many others!
You guys kill me on here trying to intellectualize these criminals at the Comex………….what you are doing is a crime against science!
Mark, I am fine with you here, As long as you don’t use all caps since it scares me. What you are talking is more like conspiracy facts.
dragonite………it only takes two for a conspiracy………OWL AND DOC…..lol
oh, sorry for the CAPS……………….. 🙂
I would have included Temple, but, he is from Chicago, so we already know he part of the MOB….lol
The very existence of the FED is the proof of price manipulation . . .
+1
The sheeple of the world are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and the thoroughest brainwashing in world history.
sorry mark too late-
Wrong……………..it’s never to late to tell the truth!
great to see Gary post…
Oil is also manipulated by the banks. They have been attacking it every morning except today, short covering seems to have started after driving it down to 7:30am. According to equity clock, the seasonal period of strength begins today.
I’ll say it again – it’s all about GOLDMAN !
Oil has a chance to rally to near $43 with enough short covering now that 99% of traders are bearish.
Comex is completely out of gold…………this is why the start of WW3 is so near! You saw what just happened with Russia and Turkey this morning!
Do not worry Mark…….there is plenty of FIAT GOLD, for those who like playing the game with CRIMEX……LOL
I guess if they just ignore the real price and cash settle all trades with a bonus to the longs, the game can still go on for a while. But some time, the real physical buyers of sovereign nature will dominate the long side. These guys have a mission of delivering gold to their clients. They will not accept cash settlement. These guys have been operating on LBMA. No law prevents them from coming here. If they are blocked by dirty tricks, the LBMA price will detach from COMEX. Paper is paper, it is produced at 0 cost and can not be used to make anything real.
“mission of delivering gold to their clients”….that is the question. To many that does not seem to bother them, concerning the leveraging of the commodity and delivery. I think it is a BIG QUESTION.
And this will happen, someone someday soon will take delivery, and it will be for a huge amount that the Comex can’t delivery, and that is when the game will be over! OH and it’s going to happen!
I agree
Gold and Silver Daily Trading Patterns For November 2015
Does anyone see a marked daily pattern in the precious metals for the month of November?
What a surprise!
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2015/12/gold-and-silver-daily-trading-patterns.html