A very simple solution to a major problem for the United States.
One of the characteristics of Dr. Paul’s personality is that he provides simple solutions to problems. For example:
“How to tackle the real immigration problem? Eliminate incentives for those who would come here to live off the rest of us, and make it easier and more rational for those who wish to come here legally to contribute to our economy. No walls, no government databases, no biometric national ID cards. But not a penny in welfare for immigrants. It’s really that simple.”
Dr. Ron Paul is a former member of Congress and Distinguished Counselor to the Mises Institute. See the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.
Yeah, that will work. The Romans banned the Bible once too and look how successful that effort was.
Bonzo,
I’m not sure banning any book is the solution – at all.
You can’t be “for” freedom and suggest banning books that you “despise”.
With the willingness to ban books, next thing you know, one day “they” will ban books you wanna read. Then “they” will ban the music you wanna listen to. Then you won’t be able to say things you wanna say. Etc… Etc… I’ll stop here. Sure you get the point.
As an aside, if you really think the Quran is part of the issue… well… it’s a sad thing – but it’s your right to think so.
My 2cts.
LPG
LPG:
It’s a two way street.Those who tote the Quran must be tolerant of Christains also.
And that my friend is not a “sad thing.”
LPG, have you been to Arabia? I have. They do not allow Bibles, David Stars, churches, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist temples. They are they most intolerant shits on the planet. We are fools to let muslims into our countries when their goal is to force all the other religions to submit to theirs. Charles Martel was very wise when he drove the muslims out of France. It is stupid to be tolerant of a religion that wants to enslave you.
Bonzo,
I lived in the Middle East for almost 10yrs.
So..yes… I have been to KSA. A couple of times and in different locations. Do i have that box ticked ?
As a matter of fact, om of my dearest friend is Saudi. He’s a muslim, and he prays 5 times a day. One of the nicest, most humble person i have met in my life, despite coming from a very wealthy family.
These somewhat irrelevant anecdote aside, but which i wanted to provide in order to propose some perspective, there are 2 things i note:
1) you formulated the view of banning the Quran – which i think is a sad and erroneous view – and, if i may, you seem to justify yourself by bringing the focus to KSA.
To me, you are TOTALLY mixing things up.
2) To Johnk now:
Who told you that those who TAUGHT the Quran are intolerant ?
And what has the Quran got to do with those who “teach” it ?
You also, in my book, are mixing things up TOTALLY. I hope you realize that.
I have said it many times, and i will repeat it again: the issue is not Islam, and the issue is not the Quran either. Don’t mix things up people.
And pleaaaase don’t come to me with the BS that all muslims want to implement Sharia’a law etc… Coz if you do believe so, it just means that you are simply not interacting w. (M)any muslims in your life. In this regard, to get some proper perspective, i would highly recommend to those who don’t interact to get out of your intellectual/social ghetto: you might learn a few things about those muslims you despise/fear/hate so much.
My 2cts.
LPG
By the way…
I realize that i won’t convince you with a different perspective, Bonzo/Johnk.
I just wished to highligt the fact that starting from a disagreement on Bonzo’s idea to ban the Quran, the focus right away shifts to KSA and those who teach the Quran…
Hence my views that you both are totally mixing things up, imho.
LPG
LPG:
Three generations of my family are Honorably discharged U.S Veterans including myself protecting the right to be part of your so called social intellectual ghetto.
We served our country.
No one is going to come along and start dictating as to what I have to start doing.
Everybody is welcome in America,as long as they enter legally and what to assimilate with the American population.
It is not my job to pay for immigrants well being.
Muslims are a small part of the U.S population,yet they seem to control about 80% of the narrative.
The time has come for us in the U.S to start taking care of our own people instead of taking care of every one else.
JohnK,I have to agree with you. We cannot be in charge of the world when we cannot even be in charge of ourselves. How about the situation with the U.S. President that occurred in China. The rest of the world thinks really highly of us, right?
A simple question LPG, do all Muslims want the Law to be implemented throughout the world. If so, where in a religious Islamic factual source say that they do or they o not?
Let us put this issue to bed once and for all, with a statement based on fact and not opinion.
Best to you.
Johnk,
Maybe there are some muslims who have lived in the US for years and feel American too???
Mayyyybe?
Just a thought…
LPG
Bonzo, if, in fact, Muslims do want to enslave us, you are absolutely correct!
Now, as I commented earlier, let’s get some facts on the table one and for all.
Big Al,
Some muslims don’t care about Sharia’a law. Actually many don’t really want it to be implemented. I can introduce you to a good amount of them who think that way.
The brother of a buddy of mine from school – members of a muslim family – met some of his muslim acquaintances recently (this summer). He told them: “i’m muslim as you but i don’t go to the mosq and i drink. That’s my choice.” The result: he was beaten up.
So…when one starts to mix Quran w. KSA and when someone else mixes Islam with what some people teach in the name of Islam, or think that all muslims want to convert the whole world…then, this suggests to me that one has reached levels of intellectual/social ghetto indeed.
I am not criticising or finger pointing here. I am just trying to help people realize where they are in their thought process as opposed to where they think they are at.
And again, i am not trying to convince anyone. I am just pointing out that view points expressed seem to mix everything up while it shouldn’t. That’s all.
What “amazes” me – and i have often told you this in private Big Al – is that most of us on KER seem to take big pride in not being brainwashed by the media w. their eco and financial “all is well” narrative. Said it differently: we seem to really be able to see things through. However, on some topics, it seems that the media brainwashing is working. Sad.
LPG
LPG:
The only one brainwashed here is you.
9/11 was the game changer.
JohnK,
That you for bringing up 9/11 and illustrating my point perfectly.
GL to you.
LPG
LPG:
You don’t get off that easily.
Anytime you start pushing the good Muslim why don’t you take a moment to push the good Christian as well.
Of course there can be no good Christians.
From there you must try push the narrative that we here in the U.S don’t measure up to the likes of you.
Those with the most education will always draw the most educated conclusions.That being said,degrees in common sense are not handed out at college universities
Johnk,
I could try to make a detailed response to address every of your point, but given that everytime you go in new, many directions that are pretty much off base, I’m afraid it will be pretty much a pointless use of my time – and of other readers’.
So I will just say this.
I will leave you in your intellectual/social ghetto full of certainties about islam, muslims and probably many other things about the world that you probably happily mix-up to make your own world analysis framework self-narrative… and truly wish you good luck.
LPG
LPG:
I usually don’t respond to those that try glorify Islam with out posting any facts.
Where are your facts LPG? I will tell you,you don’t have any.
Here in the USA,not all Muslim’s are terrorists.
Behind virtually every terrorist act here in the USA is a Muslim.
Now you tell me who is who?
Good Day
Johnk,
If you assumed that I glorified Islam, I take the opportunity that you mentioned education to humbly suggest you go back to the education system indeed and start with the basics: some reading courses. That will likely help you.
LPG
LPG:
I didn’t think you would have a comeback regarding the facts.
Nor could you tell me who is who.
Nor do I need your suggestions.
Class Dismissed.
John K,
9/11 settles nothing. A very good case can be made that it was an inside job. Just watch the video footage of WTC7 collapsing, and tell me you believe the official explanation that it was office fires.
If you believe that, then we probably can’t really communicate on the matter. If not, then I can point you toward other documentaries that raise far more questions. Any true patriot should look into this.
Making it a Christian vs Islam issue strikes me as counter-productive. The real problem are the oligarchs playing us all like a fiddle.
FWIW, I largely do not believe that either welcoming the refugees, nor bombing their countries to create them, are good ideas.
G.H:
Well put.
This all got started when I reminded LPG that it is a two way street. Nothing more.
Ron Paul is right.
One week after 9/11 G.W Bush gave a news conference from a Washington mosque, telling the U.S Public we must respect Islam.WHY?
Even though it sounds racist; if you ban anyone darker than Ron Paul you will reduce the immigrant and refugee problem and make the country what it was intended to be from the beginning. Probably not easy to do in the short term even if it could be done but such ban would send a message that even trying to invade is a waste of time if it is not legal or tolerable to start with.
Steven,
I think that if you let Native Indian Americans decide on the criterias for immigration…many might decide to first send “back” many millions of people as white as Ron Paul to start with.
And as a side note, not to be misunderstood on that matter, you could rightly describe me as a Ron Paul fan.
My 2cts.
LPG
+1 LOL
The word “immigrant” is used incorrectly here, as usual. Immigrants are people who have gone through a proper immigration process, who might have spent years waiting to get their residence permits issued. They have been well-vetted and selected for suitability. They are rarely, if ever, a burden on the system.
Then you have illegal immigrants who have simply crossed the border in the dead of night, and sneaked into the country. These are always referred to as “immigrants”, but they are not. They are cue jumpers.
Economic Refugees is maybe a better term. I imagine its just a matter of time before the US starts building refugee camps the way they do in places like Kenya. What are governments supposed to do with all those people that they cannot deport and they don’t have jobs to send them too? And look at places like Lebanon and Jordan. They are simply being over run by numbers of people that cannot possibly be controlled.
Sometimes the simple solutions are the most idiotic. Let put Ron’s idea to a test. Lets say Muhammad from Syria arrives in the US with plans for a better life. He gets a job in a parking garage but six months after arriving the economy turns down and he loses his job. He gets no benefits and has no family here so there is zero means of support and likely Mr Muhammad cannot even afford a flight home (if he was even allowed). So now he has a couple new choices. Deal drugs, steal food and sleep under a bridge until he can get his life together. No problems there…..lots of people already do that. But Muhammad is not psychiatric, a drunk, a vagabond or part of the underworld community and he does not fit in. Actually he has two years college education (this is hypothetical of course), a wife back home and two children to support with Western Union remittances. So instead of surviving on the street he gets mugged, beaten and robbed on more than a few occasions. He is the only immigrant living under that particular bridge and since he is not a tough guy his life is pretty much ruined. Do you think he can qualify for free food, dental and medical under Dr Paul’s brilliant plan? I doubt it if he can’t even get welfare. Do you think he would now make an excellent recruit for an extremist group if he can’t go home, can’t get a job and can’t even feed himself adequately? In other words, if he cannot be guaranteed work before he even arrives then maybe he should not be coming in the first place.
In the US, the problem is not with illegals who have flown in from Syria, or any other place. If you don’t have papers you can’t even get on a plane to the US unless you are from a favored 1st world country. All other countries need visas. If you can’t produce one, you don’t get on the plane. If somehow you do make it onto the plane, customs will get you when you land.
If you want to control the problem you have to prevent people from entering the country illegally in the first place. That would be the solution. Trump says he wants to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. He says Mexico might not now it yet, but they will pay for it.
Ok….
A well-guarded fence would do it. Don’t know what all this talk of wall is for.
Building fences does not work, erecting walls won’t work, banning books won’t work and neither will more guns and patrols solve the problem. Its the same thing whether its price controls, dress codes, subsidies, currency pegs, mandated rationing or currency wars. Every single one of those ideas I listed are proven to fail time and again.
So what do they all have in common?
Merkel and and he Social Democrat coalition partners keep assuring us that fences don’t solve problems. This is an odd statement to make as fences and walls, if done properly, work superbly well, as history has shown. It has even been claimed that good fences make good neighbours.
The word fence can also be used figuratively, as in control your borders tighter and discourage would be illegals from immediately sending back and/or penalizing any that have been caught in the country. It is simply a matter of will.
The will of the “elites” (major misnomer here), Soros foremost among them, is the “Open Society Project”, which tears down borders and deliberately causes the effects we are seeing. None of this just “kinda happened” and now we have to see how we deal with it. Far from it. There is an agenda at play here and the simplest of solutions are prevented from being applied because the migrant crisis serves a desired purpose.
I don’t know how these typos got in there:
Corrected version (sorry)
Merkel and her Social Democrat coalition partners keep assuring us that fences don’t solve problems. This is an odd statement to make as fences and walls, if done properly, work superbly well, as history has shown. It has even been claimed that good fences make good neighbours.
The word fence can also be used figuratively, as in control your borders tighter and discourage would be illegals from entering by immediately sending back and/or penalizing any that have been caught in the country. It is simply a matter of will.
The will of the “elites” (major misnomer here), Soros foremost among them, is the “Open Society Project”, which tears down borders and deliberately causes the effects we are seeing. None of this just “kinda happened” and now we have to see how we deal with it. Far from it. There is an agenda at play here and the simplest of solutions are prevented from being applied because the migrant crisis serves a desired purpose.
Lets see….Hadrians wall, Great Wall of China, Maginot Line, Israeli West Bank Wall, the Berlin Wall, the Walls or Jericho and Jerusalem and of course the Rabbit Fences in Australia and Wall Street itself!!
They have all failed. Sometimes spectacularly.
They usually start out OK but over time people find the weaknesses (and they all have weaknesses). So they tunnel under, use ladders to go over top, get overwhelmed by numbers or broken down in combat. None have ever stood permanently and kept doing the job they were built for. So what ever comes will be temporary.
You already have a Mexican border wall btw…
They are really just symbols….or a way to enforce taxation on Joe Public.
My response belongs in this thread, but for some reason the thread seems to be closed for additional responses. So I am being a bit inventive.
Birdman wrote:
“Lets see….Hadrians wall, Great Wall of China, Maginot Line, Israeli West Bank Wall, the Berlin Wall, the Walls or Jericho and Jerusalem and of course the Rabbit Fences in Australia and Wall Street itself!!
They have all failed. Sometimes spectacularly.
They usually start out OK but over time people find the weaknesses (and they all have weaknesses). So they tunnel under, use ladders to go over top, get overwhelmed by numbers or broken down in combat. None have ever stood permanently and kept doing the job they were built for. So what ever comes will be temporary.
You already have a Mexican border wall btw…
They are really just symbols….or a way to enforce taxation on Joe Public.”
————————————
Birdman, let’s see… The Great Wall of China did work. Not forever, but it did. Nor was the Great wall of China the great wall the way people think. For the most part it was an unguarded birm. The Berlin Wall worked superbly. Ask all the folk who where prevented by it from fleeing to the west and spent decades in East German jails for trying to cross. Then you had a massive fence separating East and West Germany. A screaming success! Ask the 17 million East Germans who were stuck behind it. Tunneling, ladders, and numbers didn’t help. The few that made it were so exceptional they made movies about them. Same for the concentration camps, Warsaw Ghetto, the gulags, re-education camps, etc.
Nothing we ever do works permanently, as everything we do has its flaws and/or is subject to entropy. But you seem to be arguing, because this is the so, we might as well forget about doing things that could produce desired results for the foreseeable future. Is this what you are saying?
The Maginot line was never broken. The problem with it was, that for political reasons, the French didn’t make it long enough. They would have had to extend it north behind the Belgian border, but this would have sent the message to the Belgians that the French were abandoning them and barricading themselves behind them, leaving to fend for themselves. And that’s the point: if you’re going to do it, you have to do it right, or else don’t bother. What’s more immigrants are not invading armies, with tank divisions and artillery.
Israeli West Bank wall: another success story. It greatly reduced the number of terrorist attacks – to this day. Not nice to live behind it. But that’s a different story.
Rabbit fence in Australia. It appears the builders hadn’t done their homework and thought rabbits were a lot like people.
The Wall of Jericho – is this a valid example in this context? Do you believe it was brought down miraculously? Or even brought down at all. Archeologists are still debating this.
Birdman wrote:
“Lets see….Hadrians wall, Great Wall of China, Maginot Line, Israeli West Bank Wall, the Berlin Wall, the Walls or Jericho and Jerusalem and of course the Rabbit Fences in Australia and Wall Street itself!!
They have all failed. Sometimes spectacularly.
They usually start out OK but over time people find the weaknesses (and they all have weaknesses). So they tunnel under, use ladders to go over top, get overwhelmed by numbers or broken down in combat. None have ever stood permanently and kept doing the job they were built for. So what ever comes will be temporary.
You already have a Mexican border wall btw…
They are really just symbols….or a way to enforce taxation on Joe Public.”
————————————
Birdman, let’s see… The Great Wall of China did work. Not forever, but it did. Nor was the Great wall of China the great wall the way people think. For the most part it was an unguarded birm. The Berlin Wall worked superbly. Ask all the folk who where prevented by it from fleeing to the west and spent decades in East German jails for trying to cross. Then you had a massive fence separating East and West Germany. A screaming success! Ask the 17 million East Germans who were stuck behind it. Tunneling, ladders, and numbers didn’t help. The few that made it were so exceptional they made movies about them. Same for the concentration camps, Warsaw Ghetto, the gulags, re-education camps, etc.
Nothing we ever do works permanently, as everything we do has its flaws and/or is subject to entropy. But you seem to be arguing, because this is the so, we might as well forget about doing things that could produce desired results for the foreseeable future. Is this what you are saying?
The Maginot line was never broken. The problem with it was, that for political reasons, the French didn’t make it long enough. They would have had to extend it north behind the Belgian border, but this would have sent the message to the Belgians that the French were abandoning them and barricading themselves behind them, leaving to fend for themselves. And that’s the point: if you’re going to do it, you have to do it right, or else don’t bother. What’s more, immigrants are not invading armies, with tank divisions and artillery.
Israeli West Bank wall: another success story. It greatly reduced the number of terrorist attacks – to this day. Not nice to live behind it. But that’s a different story.
Rabbit fence in Australia. It appears the builders hadn’t done their homework and thought rabbits were a lot like people.
The Wall of Jericho – is this a valid example in this context? Do you believe it was brought down miraculously? Or even brought down at all. Archeologists are still debating this.
Peter, the only time walls work is when there is adequate enforcement to accompany the message that outsiders are unwelcome (or that insiders cannot leave voluntarily). Enforcement in this case generally means deadly force otherwise the wall is just a waste of time and money.
Punishment might include summary execution on site, for example Or sniper execution in remote areas. Heavy electrification on wire fencing that is fatal or explosive charges laid in booby traps to mortally wound any intruders who attempt to get through illegally will be essential. That is what it will take for people to really respect what a barrier wall is telling them.
East Germany had all of those features but people got through anyway.
So maybe I don’t understand Trumps idea.
Is he also saying that along will a wall he will institute a shoot-to-kill policy on the Southern border? Is he willing to lay mines along its length to put teeth to the idea of a fence that should be respected? Will he allow torture, hard labour and lengthy prison sentences for those who did manage to get through once they are eventually caught on the other side?
No wall is any good otherwise.
The only time they work effectively is when deadly force is employed alongside the barrier. Actually, the best walls are built in layers. They might be three fences deep with a no-mans land in between, razor wire, explosives, phosphorous lighting, detection systems, cameras and perimeter dogs…..and plenty of guns.
Then the walls work since failure to get through usually means an ugly death.
But wait a second…are those Mexicans really THAT big of security threat to justify the expense or do they just want a job picking strawberries? What I am saying Peter is that no wall is an effective deterrent unless it is so dangerous that the consequences of crossing it are literally the loss of one’s life.
Then they work.
I don’t think that kind of enforcement is being seriously considered by anyone in the United States just yet though. So then why bother? There is already a security barrier on the Southern border and it is entirely ineffectual. I can’t see how adding another is going to improve anything but a politicians ratings.
Maybe there are better and more cost effective solutions.
By the way, if you really want to keep people out of a country all you need is a really bad government or a system that is overbearing and leaves no room for freedoms. Have you ever heard a peep out of the Chinese about illegal immigrants or refugees breaking down their borders?
Now why would that be if its such a great country?
That remark btw is for all the people who keep complaining about the US, its governments, institutions and national policies. Please get a life people. There is a good reason America is even in the position to be talking about putting up walls.
Because people all over the world want to live there even as some of the slack minds in the room want to run away to……to…..well there is nowhere better is there? Cause if there were the numbers giving up citizenship would be in the tens of thousands instead of the low hundreds each year.
Not only do you demand perfection, you are willing to live in a dream world of “The Worst That Could Happen Ever”.
Any solution without humility, prayer, repentance and God’s Word is just another problem. The problem is practical atheism, the solution is Christ.
Ron Paul is correct again. Removing the incentives would be the single most effective approach. Those who doubt it should be comforted by the fact that Birdman thinks the idea is idiotic.
The majority is already on my side where Ron Paul is concerned. Its why he is not the President and never could be. You, my friend, are in the minority.
Since when is the majority right about anything? Lmfao… yes I am in the minority.
And that’s why your vote for Paul was wasted and you remain frustrated his crazy agenda was never implemented (and never will be). Making change requires a popular consensus or a majority Mathew. Its pretty clear you have never been on any kind of board or committee!
LMAO!!!! 🙂
Lol indeed, Birdman. I have never voted and never will.
Oh I see. So you have never attended a shareholder meeting either. Good grief. Do you live in cave?
You’re a little uppity for a guy who lives in a mud hut with a turtle, don’t you think?
Matthew,
I personally am a guy who lives in a condo with two pooches who are actually very human. And, I am not uppity.
Best to all,
Big Uppity Al
Al, my comment was a little poke at uppity Birdman, not you. 🙂
Please don’t offend my turtle in the forum Matthew.
😉
Matthew,
The utter idiocy and degeneracy of the modern western human condition is beyond repair. We’re now at the point of humans being led and controlled by mindless bankrupt ideologues with a sick twisted agenda that cannot be redirected at this point. The toxic breach has already rendered the host lifeless.
All folks like you and I can do step aside and let the dreadful, deadly sickness of the progressive left-wing agenda implode from its own inward inertia.
There is no saving idiots dead-set on defending destructive ideologies.
Save yourself and the ones you love that will listen! That’s all you can do at this point.
Vortex, I agree.
Seconded.
Vortex:
I refuse to buy into that narrative.
The U.S is still a great place to live.People are waking up to the corrupt Politicians, Central Bankers and their minions.
Much like turning an Aircraft carrier,this is going to take some time.
Brave Warriors Like Bob Moriarty”The Art of Peace” getting the word out will make a difference. Those that have tried to enslave us in the U.S have been exposed.
To one who has faith,no explanation is necessary.To one without faith,no explanation is possible.
JohnK, you’re free to buy into whatever fairy-tail narrative you want.
News flash: You’re already enslaved and there isn’t a damn thing you’re going to do about it but shut your piehole, toe-the-line and hand you’re money over to the rulers in ever increasing taxes and systemic ingrained rackets of theft and hubris.
Since it appears you possess all of the special attributes of a modern day westerner that thrives on living in a reality show setting, may I suggest you man the helm of your Aircraft Carrier and get to turning asap!
There’s an election coming right up for you to get you’re fix of unicorns, make believe, fairy-tales and rainbows.
Full steam ahead!
V:
I look at my Children and I can’t believe how well they have done.
They are the future.
As are our children, Johnk
You sound a little bitter Vortex. Is this about taxes or land or what is the problem exactly? Have you thought about emigrating to a better country? Just curious…..where will you go?
I am all for bringing muslims and korans and mosques to America, just as soon as Arabia allows Christian churches and cathedrals, Bibles, crosses, David stars, as well as temples built by Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus into Arabia. Until the muslims tolerate other religions they should be banned from civilized countries. I have never forgiven them for burning the great classical library at Alexandria. When the moors have burned the art in the Louvre and turned Notre Dame into a mosque, LPG’s grandchildren will curse him for being so tolerant of muslims. Churchill called Islam the most retrograde force in the world, and he was much wiser than our leaders today. Even Brigitte Bardot has more sense than Merkel and Hollande. Al, why don’t you invite Bardot on your weekend program to instruct us about Islam?
Dr. Paul’s solution would not stop any muslim terrorists from coming here. We should ban the Koran as they do in Japan.