Your Daily KER Politics Comment Page

Here’s the politics comments page for everyone today. I hope you all are enjoying this dedicated page for politics. Thank you everyone for keeping all the political comments to this posting.


Comments:
  1. On November 4, 2020 at 4:59 am,
    irishtony says:

    Can somebody please tell me , what the hell is going on in the US election .
    I cant make head or tail of it. I am reading so many confliction stories . Perhaps i should just go to bed for the next week , then maybe when i wake up , i might have a better understanding of what the hell just went on.

    Signed…CONFUSSED.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 5:57 am,
      Dick Tracy says:

      IT, you know what’s going, the crooks rise fast, like cream to the top. When you watch what’s going on it makes one beg the question is there any humanity left in humankind. DT

    • On November 4, 2020 at 6:06 am,
      larry says:

      who and what mechanism allows for a simultaneous orchestrated shut down of the vote count amoung independent ststes?….Equally confused….

    • On November 4, 2020 at 7:07 am,
      Lance says:

      Hey…Tony
      I am doing the same thing………I just got up and came here to see the gang…..lol……but I think I too am going to go back to bed and hide under the covers……and when I wake up…..perhaps around noon today….Wed……they just might have called a victor……and hopefully it is Trump…….

    • On November 4, 2020 at 8:58 am,
      Andrew de Berry says:

      Hey Tony like you I’m mightily confused. Best to retire for a day or two and then pick up on Steve Bannon’s War Room or go to Steve Turley who always keeps his summaries concise and intelligible. Anyway fear not Trump has already won! Best, Andrew

  2. On November 4, 2020 at 5:08 am,
    franky says:

    The US elections are in lockdown ! So you can look more TV !

    • On November 4, 2020 at 5:35 am,
      irishtony says:

      Hi franky…..I DONT watch tv….Im too clever for that……………………………lol

      • On November 4, 2020 at 10:28 am,
        franky says:

        The Western population will look TV and deserved to be deceived Agin ! The ( 14 of november ) The Eliet a very in control !

  3. On November 4, 2020 at 5:47 am,
    CFS says:

    It appears to me that some Attorneys General and Governors of certain Democrat states are in the process of possibly stealing the election for Biden.

    As long as Biden is in the lead, they don’t ACTUALLY have to forge votes. All they have to do is DELAY the certification of electors long enough for submission of the elector’s vote to be ruled invalid.
    I may be wrong, but that is what is happening in Pennsylvania, as far as I can tell. That one state may be enough to swing the election.
    Arizona’s vote looks very dodgy. Trump was projected to win, by my estimation, when suddenly 100,000+ votes turn up with over 90% of them for Biden.
    , at a time when 100% were already stating themselves 100% counted. Very Strange. Yes, there are military votes and postal votes that can turn up late, but for them to be so deviant from regular votes is suspicious.

  4. On November 4, 2020 at 5:54 am,
    Chartster says:

    About the same time Georgia and N Carolina were going to report their results, faux news shit down reporting and went to reruns from hours earlier. Right then I knew something screwy was going on. Now you have several states at the same time that shut down. States that Trump will win.

    It’s easy to see they are committing fraud. Everyone knows it.

    Maybe we are witnessing the last gasp of the deep state. Now Trump can institute the insurrection act. Start rounding them up. It’s obvious election fraud!

  5. On November 4, 2020 at 6:04 am,
    cfs says:

    It was admitted that Democrats stole elections in the 60s, when the Daley machine was at its height, so this is nothing new.

  6. On November 4, 2020 at 6:07 am,
    cfs says:

    The election looks like it might go to the Supreme Court, so here come the smears…
    https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/11/04/racist-much-joy-reid-wants-to-know-if-any-of-you-guys-trust-uncle-clarence-to-follow-the-law-if-trump-takes-the-election-to-scotus-video/

  7. On November 4, 2020 at 6:10 am,
    David says:

    It is required in the US that all Votes submitted in accordance with the laws of each State in the time limits as defined by the laws of each State …be counted. Nothing suspicious or fake…just routine procedure. Once the votes are counted, the individual States certify the results.

  8. On November 4, 2020 at 6:11 am,
    cfs says:

    https://freebeacon.com/2020-election/dems-spend-more-than-quarter-billion-to-lose-longshot-senate-races/

    Looks to me like Republicans kept a Senate majority.

  9. On November 4, 2020 at 6:25 am,
    cfs says:

    Trump is winning Rust Belt states by ENORMOUS margins compared to 2016:

    WISCONSIN
    -2016: 22,748
    -2020: 104,963 (77% reporting)

    MICHIGAN
    -2016: 10,704
    -2020: 289,703 (61%)

    PENNSYLVANIA
    -2016: 44,292
    -2020: 696,960 (66%)

    Yet they are not being called.
    I guess they need to know how many fake ballots need to be generated.

  10. On November 4, 2020 at 6:30 am,
    cfs says:

    https://www.oann.com/gen-milley-says-military-will-play-no-role-in-election-disputes/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gen-milley-says-military-will-play-no-role-in-election-disputes

  11. On November 4, 2020 at 6:35 am,
    irishtony says:

    I tell you people…We are not going to know who won , until we see that women , you know the one with glasses & yellow plastic coat , who screamed at the sky , when HILEVEL lost in 2016……So look out for her…she will eighter be dancing , or howling.

  12. On November 4, 2020 at 6:42 am,
    irishtony says:

    And The Beat Goe’s On.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/dc-police-confirm-stabbing-attack-4-trump-supporters-near-white-house

  13. On November 4, 2020 at 7:06 am,
    OOTB Jerry says:

    Well, went to bed last night, and everything looked great……Trump 304….or better.

    Today, what a joke…. There is no way….that the cheaters can help themselves….
    Unbelievable, but, not really…..Been that way for the last 20 yrs., just more of the same.
    Elected mafia officials, will continue to cheat , steal, and lie……what is new about that.

  14. On November 4, 2020 at 7:08 am,
    Chartster says:

    All the main stream news stopped reporting the election numbers at the same time. The same time the results would come in of a Trump Win!
    Trump WON the election! The ‘fake news’ is hiding it!
    Fraud FRaud FRAUD….!

    • On November 4, 2020 at 7:09 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Well………what is new about that………come on man…..it is a JOKE…….
      It, is so, in your face, …….like 4 yrs. of the same….MSM…con game.

      • On November 4, 2020 at 7:13 am,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        There is no way the country is going to heal………fair elections…..lol

        • On November 4, 2020 at 7:32 am,
          OOTB Jerry says:

          This may go down as the most perverted election of all times……

  15. On November 4, 2020 at 7:13 am,
    irishtony says:

    I tried watching bits of the FOX coverage , & came to the conclussion that they fliped to the dark side.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 7:14 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Ditto……….they flipped, when they let DONNA BRAZIL on the air

      • On November 4, 2020 at 7:16 am,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        They have a few loonie toons , on in the morning, and then it goes down hill from there.
        You might have one or two, without and agenda,…..but, most are deep state plants.

        • On November 4, 2020 at 7:20 am,
          OOTB Jerry says:

          Fox, no longer needed trump, after the Israel got the OK, for the embassy
          Muddoch, played him like a fiddle…..

          • On November 4, 2020 at 7:31 am,
            cfs says:

            What are you talking about OOTB?
            Fox is owned by Disney isn’t it?

          • On November 4, 2020 at 7:33 am,
            OOTB Jerry says:

            Keith Rupert Murdoch, AC, KCSG (born 11 March 1931) is an Australian-born American media mogul.[3] Through his company News Corp, he is the owner of hundreds of local, national, and international publishing outlets around the world, including The Sun and The Times in the UK, The Daily Telegraph and The Australian in Australia, The Wall Street Journal and The New York Post in the US, book publisher HarperCollins, and the television broadcasting channels Sky News Australia and Fox News (through the Fox Corporation). He was also the owner of Sky (until 2018), 21st Century Fox (until 2019), and the now-defunct News of the World.

          • On November 4, 2020 at 7:36 am,
            OOTB Jerry says:

            Murdoch has a seat on the Strategic Advisory Board of Genie Oil and Gas, having jointly investing with Lord Rothschild in a 5.5% stake in the company which conducted shale gas and oil exploration in Colorado, Mongolia, Israel and, controversially, the occupied Golan Heights.[55]

          • On November 4, 2020 at 8:05 am,
            OOTB Jerry says:

            CFS……do you have an update ….or is it cricket time…. 🙂

          • On November 4, 2020 at 8:12 am,
            OOTB Jerry says:

            Since you, CFS raised the question………….
            Disney-Fox deal, expected to close in the summer of 2019,
            Which means, Murdoch, ….took care of the issue prior to the sale,

    • On November 4, 2020 at 10:44 am,
      Andrew de Berry says:

      Definitely!

  16. On November 4, 2020 at 7:16 am,
    cfs says:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1320107370312323073

  17. On November 4, 2020 at 7:27 am,
    CFS says:

    I am disgusted the way the media is spinning what Trump said early this morning.
    He said something like “The voting must now stop.” i.e. no more fake voting creation.
    But the media is spinning it like Trump said he wanted top stop the vote counting…..He just did not say that.

  18. On November 4, 2020 at 7:34 am,
    cfs says:

    https://www.revolver.news/2020/11/trump-won-now-stop-the-steal/

  19. On November 4, 2020 at 7:35 am,
    Chartster says:

    If the American people sit still with their dumbass apathy, and let this fraud happen? And do nothing?
    We go communist and we get what we deserve. (sad..)
    Either the world goes dark, or goes to the light.
    Good vs evil.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 7:38 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Tea Party TIme………..

  20. On November 4, 2020 at 7:48 am,
    OOTB Jerry says:

    https://usawatchdog.com/greg-hunters-live-election-coverage-2020/
    ELECTION UPDATE……..real journalism…..

    • On November 4, 2020 at 7:50 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Should just say……Election recap……Night mares…..uncovered…

  21. On November 4, 2020 at 7:51 am,
    OOTB Jerry says:

    BIGGEST DAY OF THE YEAR………and OWL is MISSING……… 🙂

  22. On November 4, 2020 at 7:55 am,
    Chartster says:

    Remember remember the 5th of November…!
    Guy Fawkes day!

    • On November 4, 2020 at 8:03 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Q, better get on the stick of dynomite…..lol

  23. On November 4, 2020 at 8:00 am,
    OOTB Jerry says:

    WHAT THE HELL……….check the MICHIGAN NUMBERS…….
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-surprise-ballot-dumps-behind-lead-changes

    • On November 4, 2020 at 8:01 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Mysterious number jump of 200,000 to Biden and the other lower official got zero improvement in number………(check the chart)

      • On November 4, 2020 at 8:07 am,
        larry says:

        is the vote shut down time pre arranged if trump is ready to control the electoral college…who and how is this done?…..is any of this even legal?

        • On November 4, 2020 at 8:14 am,
          OOTB Jerry says:

          All good questions………..do a follow up later…….

  24. On November 4, 2020 at 8:13 am,
    cfs says:

    OFF TOPIC:
    Effect of Vitamin D on Covid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxtddpoPMKo

    What Campbell misses, is that there are a number of people with HIGH levels of Vitamin D, that NEVER HAD COVID SYMPTOMS, because of their high Vitamin D.
    So there’s a whole group of people missed.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 8:15 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Good grief……….are you kidding me……..Damn right it is OFF TOPIC…..

      • On November 4, 2020 at 8:18 am,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        The FIRST THING TRUMP SHOULD DO …..TODAY……..is FIRE FAUCI…………..

        • On November 4, 2020 at 8:21 am,
          OOTB Jerry says:

          While he is at it…………FIRE…..WHAY…….and BARR……

  25. On November 4, 2020 at 8:18 am,
    Chartster says:

    Fraud

    https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1324018512055083008?s=20

    • On November 4, 2020 at 2:29 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      THe twitter…… HAS BEEN TAKEN DOWN……Chartster…..
      Trumpster waited too long in taking action against the swamp…..
      You guys followed the Q, way too long………

      • On November 4, 2020 at 2:33 pm,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        I am not blaming you one bit…….it, is just one of the learning lessons….I do believe,
        going forward, …We all need to bond together, because the sh”’ has only started.
        The cabal…….played everyone like a fiddle……

        • On November 4, 2020 at 2:47 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Jerry, it would be great if more people shared our feelings. Don’t you think?

          • On November 4, 2020 at 3:28 pm,
            OOTB Jerry says:

            Ditto……..best to just get it out…… 🙂

  26. On November 4, 2020 at 8:20 am,
    Chartster says:

    From time to time the tree of liberty has to be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants, it’s natural manure.

    – Thomas Jefferson

    (looms large about right now, eh?

    • On November 4, 2020 at 8:22 am,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      If,…….anyone has any balls, to say it……..that would be spot on…..

      • On November 4, 2020 at 8:23 am,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        I am DONE WITH THE RANT……..see ya later…..

  27. On November 4, 2020 at 8:33 am,
    cfs says:

    I know I’m a few weeks early, but let me be the first to congratulate President Harris in this forum.
    I wonder who her VP will be.

  28. On November 4, 2020 at 8:48 am,
    Chartster says:

    CFS,
    Playing nice so you don’t end up in a FEMA camp?
    Heh heh

    • On November 4, 2020 at 9:32 am,
      cfs says:

      No. If the senate goes democrat, I will be moving.
      Harris as President, Nancy as VP, will kill the U.S. as surely as Venezuela is a dying country.
      I will be going away, but don’t know how far. I knew a European passport might come in handy one day.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 1:09 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      You only go to the FEMA camp, if, you get on the train…..

      • On November 4, 2020 at 1:12 pm,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        And there are going to be a lot of ding dong getting on the train…..
        Since, I just listened to the new post, from AL, starting in a new direction
        there will be NO MORE CONSPIRACY commenting…. 🙂
        Nighty Nite,……the sheeple will be lost for sure, ….

  29. On November 4, 2020 at 9:03 am,
    David says:

    Current Case Concerning USPS Processing:
    Federal Judge has been informed processing times of mail in Battleground states (as a minimum) have had processing times drop from 95% per day to 50-70% a day. Coupled with Trumps informing supporters to Vote in person has raised a serious concern about USPS operations. It will be interesting to see how this issue is quickly resolved.

  30. On November 4, 2020 at 9:18 am,
    Chartster says:

    Fox News reports.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1103331816789833&id=335214686550733&_rdr

    • On November 4, 2020 at 9:26 am,
      larry says:

      ok Chartster…thank you very much!…i can understand that…i will go nap in some peace

  31. On November 4, 2020 at 9:30 am,
    Charles says:

    My own theory about this election has been is that the election will wind up in the courts and before a decision is made, the military/industrial complex will insight Marshall Law to protect its interest and insure the truth is never revealed about the election or any of the other unconstitutional and legal matters associated with the deep state are uncovered.

  32. On November 4, 2020 at 9:39 am,
    cfs says:

    I’m with Charles. I think this election is in the process of being stolen.
    Yes the rest of the votes will be counted. Yes, there might even be the odd vote for Trump among them, but they will be overwhelmingly democrat.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 11:14 am,
      Charles says:

      CFS – If you decide to head to Panama, let me know. I might join you.

  33. On November 4, 2020 at 9:44 am,
    Chartster says:

    Real news.

    https://twitter.com/HowleyReporter/status/1323981404414226432?s=20

  34. On November 4, 2020 at 9:48 am,
    cfs says:

    You think the polls were just wrong ! Ha ! They were rigged, primarily for vote suppression. But when that has not worked they will dig up extra democrat votes, and say….”Look the poles were right! ” The press will support the democrats. Fait accompli.
    What will the Supreme Court say? Where is the evidence?
    Since ballots (even forged ones) do not carry allocation identification, do you think that SCOTUS will overturn the apparent result based on Statistics and probability.

  35. On November 4, 2020 at 9:51 am,
    cfs says:

    we all know the rest of the ballots could be counted in less than 24 hours.
    The problem is that it takes longer to fabricate a few million fake ones.

  36. On November 4, 2020 at 10:18 am,
    Matthew says:

    As I’ve said before, there’s no way Biden can win legitimately:
    https://twitter.com/WarrenPlatts/status/1323988901334319104/photo/1

  37. On November 4, 2020 at 10:36 am,
    AJ says:

    Judge ‘Shocked’ at Postal Service, May Order Head to Testify
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-04/judge-says-usps-chief-dejoy-may-have-to-testify-about-failures

    Appointment looks masterstroke

    • On November 4, 2020 at 10:50 am,
      David says:

      Masterstroke: Does that mean you are in favor of promoting criminal behavior to assist a political outcome.

  38. On November 4, 2020 at 10:37 am,
    AJ says:

    The Day After
    https://thebulwark.com/the-day-after/

  39. On November 4, 2020 at 10:38 am,
    cfs says:

    Given that the votes “discovered” in Michigan were not sorted, But contained over 100,000 votes for Biden, WITHOUT A SINGLE TRUMP VOTE, one has to wonder just how that miracle could happen for Biden.

  40. On November 4, 2020 at 11:10 am,
    cfs says:

    Mega oops in Wisconsin.
    Number of votes in some districts EXCEED NUMBER OF REGISTERED VOTERS.

    There’s a whole lot of fakery goin’ on.

  41. On November 4, 2020 at 11:18 am,
    cfs says:

    BREAKING: Civil Unrest Explodes Across The Nation, Washington D.C., Seattle And Los Angeles See Influx In Black Lives Matter Protests.

  42. On November 4, 2020 at 11:21 am,
    cfs says:

    Looks like they need time for printing ink to dry in Nevada:

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/election-close-call-nevada-officials-announce-will-pause-releasing-new-totals-24-hours/

  43. On November 4, 2020 at 11:24 am,
    cfs says:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/04/trump-campaign-if-we-count-all-legal-ballots-president-trump-wins/

  44. On November 4, 2020 at 11:24 am,
    Matthew says:

    Common Sense
    By Thomas Paine

    Of the Origin and Design of Government in General, with Concise Remarks on the English Constitution

    SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher…

    https://billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/primary-source-documents/common-sense/

  45. On November 4, 2020 at 11:27 am,
    cfs says:

    Wonder why all errors favor Biden? Statistically impossible?

    https://twitter.com/ZachGorchow/status/1324020925004685314

  46. On November 4, 2020 at 11:30 am,
    cfs says:

    https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2020/11/04/reports-county-clerk-in-michigan-reviewing-apparently-skewed-result-that-may-have-given-dems-thousands-of-votes-intended-for-trump-john-james/

  47. On November 4, 2020 at 11:36 am,
    cfs says:

    https://therightscoop.com/twitter-is-on-a-censoring-rampage-after-trumps-tweets-about-the-election-this-morning/

  48. On November 4, 2020 at 11:44 am,
    CFS says:

    https://generaldispatch.whatfinger.com/the-dems-are-trying-to-steal-the-election-but-they-will-fail/

  49. On November 4, 2020 at 12:08 pm,
    b says:

    In Bobs meeting with Frank Holmes today Bob says it doesnt matter who wins the election, its a 2 headed snake.

    I agree with him.

    Maybe the best thing the american people could have done is not vote.
    All it really does is endorse the status quo.

    • On November 4, 2020 at 12:23 pm,
      Norrareal1968 says:

      Bob M said that gold will be the real election winner. Somebody ought to tell the flying ace that, at least for now, gold is the only real election loser.

      • On November 4, 2020 at 12:38 pm,
        Matthew says:

        Bob is absolutely right; one day is less than meaningless.

        • On November 4, 2020 at 2:53 pm,
          b says:

          Of course Bob is right concerning gold.

          The scary part is it may not be gold increasing but fiat decreasing.

          People could really end up hurting.

          • On November 4, 2020 at 3:27 pm,
            Matthew says:

            People will definitely be hurting in large numbers which is why the police state will come into full view one way or another. Massive unrest is coming so there will be more obedience tests like mandating silly masks.

  50. On November 4, 2020 at 12:58 pm,
    blazesb says:

    I blame you Jerry. My guy got crushed. Kanye was a shoo-in but nooooo, you had to go and make Trump’s dance go viral…

    • On November 4, 2020 at 1:07 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      blazesh……….Lol……… that is a good one…… 🙂
      Kanye……should just stick to Rapp……the new BLM movement can use him….he needs to go Demo…a record…. 🙂

  51. On November 4, 2020 at 2:24 pm,
    OOTB Jerry says:

    A good summary is needed at this moment………some think they won, some think they lost, and some and the majority do not have a clue…….

    • On November 4, 2020 at 2:26 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      I might want to get some more RANT out, before the policy changes……. 🙂

  52. On November 4, 2020 at 3:14 pm,
    Dick Tracy says:

    Trump fell into the pit The Democrats had dug for him, they were entrenched and owned the media, his fate this time around was a fait complete. DT

    • On November 4, 2020 at 3:32 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      DT…….it was not just the Demowhits……..He was surrounded by Rhinos, Frauds, Con Artist, Cabal, Deep state traitors..Church and State……..even his family members conned him…..

      • On November 4, 2020 at 3:34 pm,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        When EX, comes back, we will get the scrap book out, and read some of the OLD CHAPTERS in the KER CHRONICLES……..Chapter by Chapter….. 🙂

  53. On November 4, 2020 at 3:42 pm,
    Dick Tracy says:

    When Biden becomes to ill to handle the power of The Presidency, he will have Obama and Hillary there to prop him up. It is sad that they call this a democracy. DT

    • On November 4, 2020 at 3:45 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Yes, what a crew……..Hell on Earth , is about to begin, …….
      You canadians………got the Queen Mother to contend with, we have the House of Roth…lol

  54. On November 4, 2020 at 5:06 pm,
    russell hamilton says:

    Well i am glad joe won —- Trump total BOZO acting like a angry child this guy in not a real adult needs to be sent on a fishing trip without PRESS RSH

    • On November 4, 2020 at 5:27 pm,
      OOTB Jerry says:

      Really………….lol………

    • On November 4, 2020 at 6:11 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Your Biden is a total criminal. Which is worse?

      • On November 4, 2020 at 6:31 pm,
        OOTB Jerry says:

        Way too many lost balls Matthew, it is hopeless…….

    • On November 4, 2020 at 6:22 pm,
      Thomas says:

      I am hoping for Biden too

      TRUMP has the right to ask for recounting – that‘s totally ok

      But saying he already won the election and he will stop the counting now was not ok

  55. On November 4, 2020 at 6:05 pm,
    Andrew B says:

    Good to see Trump and his silver tails brought down to Earth.
    Did any one see how Trump stomped on the poor Scottish farming family who had farmed land for generations, yes his fancy lawyers made sure nothing stopped his golf course.
    A despicable human being. Good ridens.

    • On November 5, 2020 at 9:57 am,
      b says:

      I agree Andrew, and now we get a guy that has supported every war in modern times, and a woman that is concerned with retaining prison labor, has no issue with keeping proof of innocence from authorities as a person sits on death row.

      These are the best the great nation can produce.

      Ever wonder why they are known as the great satan?

  56. On November 5, 2020 at 5:14 pm,
    andrew B says:

    Totally agree with you b.
    Biden is another despicable creature to have acted like you have said.
    Perhaps this reflects what is really obscured from our vision.