Gary Savage is back with his comments on the markets and gold today

November 5, 2013

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Gary joins Al and Cory for his daily market commentary. The conventional markets continue to confuse Gary from the stand point of a lack of profit taking. As for gold Gary gives us some target numbers that he says if broken will determine the next move in the precious metal.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:19 AM

    Its all manipulation all the time. Playing the markets is like playing pin the tail on the donkey. Its just a matter of who hits the closest.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:21 AM

    yes yes manipulation A MAST LUKE !!!!!

      Nov 05, 2013 05:25 AM

      AL GARY CORY need to talk samting soo continue the sheeple speak

      Nov 05, 2013 05:00 PM

      Franky, you might find this tool helpful.

        Nov 05, 2013 05:15 PM

        yes tanks sorry !

      Nov 05, 2013 05:16 PM

      Interesting video. Thanks Franky

      Nov 05, 2013 05:17 PM

      Thanks Gary

    Nov 05, 2013 05:26 AM

    I’m not experienced enough to really judge, but Gary’s arguments sure seem logical!

    Nov 05, 2013 05:27 AM

    Gary, you dont know if they allow it to happen?
    What? Berneke isnt calling you and telling you?
    He dosnt call me either.

    Plunge protection team, a little manipulation there.
    Most people dont do due diligence, they buy because it goes up.
    The market is not being allowed to move frely, that is the point of the kwn guys expecting a big decline.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:38 AM

    Gary, appreciate your efforts but I just cannot buy into this crackpot theory that EVERYTHING is being manipulated. If the “cyclical bear within a secular bull” gold market is really being “manufactured by the Fed then we might just as well throw in our hats and play along. Would it not be easier to play along for profit? Why fight it if you are so sure? This makes no sense to me. Please take note of our weekend discussions. Would you also say the Fed has manipulated sugar, oats, soya and copper into decline along with gold? Are they also “manipulating” crude oil to fall? Why are they just targetting gold when clearly ALL commodities are under pressure? You need to rethnk your conspiracy theory. They don’t have enough money. How about when the prices rise? Is that also the plunge team / Fed Spooks, Big Banks and secret cabals at work too? They must be very crafty and work long hours. Next you will say they are manipulating currencies too. I am very sorry but they just don’t have that much money. The Federal Reserves 85 billion is peanuts compared to the bond markets (rigged), the currency markets (rigged too, Gary?), the precious metals markets (slam dunk rigger) and now the equity markets too!! Are you really so lost in space you think that maybe they have the power to fix the global prices at every turn from commodities to cash to debt instruments? Holy Jesus Man! Where does it all end?

      Nov 05, 2013 05:52 AM

      If you’ve listened to my interviews you know I don’t think the Fed has anything to do with the gold market.

      Market manipulation in general isn’t even a question at this point. The Fed openly manipulates the bond market and they’ve stated multiple times that they want a rising stock market to create a wealth effect. So yes the stock market is obviously being manipulated. There is no question there either.

      Currencies are the most manipulated markets on the planet. What do you think QE is? And did you see what happened to the yen this year?

        Nov 05, 2013 05:05 AM

        Gary….you better go back and listen to your own interview and hear what you said. It is one thing for the Fed to WANT a rising stock market and quite another for them to be secretly intervening in causing certain outcomes. Fed intervemtions (that is not manipulation I hope you realize) are intended to achieve specific goals. What you are suggesting is a bunch of guys behind a curtain making computer buys and sells to change the outcome on a daily basis. “They just won’t let it happen” is you words referring to how those bunch of backroom boys are rigging every market trade by trade and influencing price. Pleeeeeeaaaaase Man!

          Nov 05, 2013 05:09 PM

          Bird Man

          Gary Savage has been always like that. He always denies what he said in the past despite hard core evidence to the contrary. Sorry but I am not bashing here just exposing the facts.

            Nov 05, 2013 05:16 PM

            No problem, Pibe. I was not prepared to let him off so easily this time. If he wants to make outrageous comments I only ask that he bring a little more fact based evidence to support his claims or they are not credible. I don’t enjoy hearing the blame game as a substitute for proper analysis of market dynamics.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:02 AM

    Who is “they”? Who are people profiting if gold falls to 1030?

      Nov 05, 2013 05:06 AM

      Exactly. Who are “they”. This time Gary is just making stuff up. Show me some proof.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:25 AM

    You know, Gary, you really are making my blood boil today. You wrote:

    “I don’t think the Fed has anything to do with the gold market”.
    “Market manipulation in general isn’t even a question at this point”.
    “The Fed openly manipulates the bond market”.
    “The stock market is obviously being manipulated”.
    “Currencies are the most manipulated markets on the planet”.

    Do you even realize how crazy this all sounds? How much money do you think it would take to do all of the things you mention? EG, rigging stocks, bonds and currencies all at once? Have you no clue how big these markets are nor how many people participate in them every single day?

    Do you honestly think the rest of the world would tolerate that? How about China? How about England? How about all of Europe? Maybe the Canadians, Mexicans, Turks, Saudi’s, Russians, Japanese and Brazilians might catch on eh? Or are they all just a pack of drones who coperate with the most massive open manipulation on the planet all driven by the Federal Reserve and the President and White House at the helm?

    It is totally preposterous that Gary Savage knows everything is being manipulated (except gold suddenly) but nobody with a speck of brains in the rest of the globe has any damned idea it is happening. You are just freaking brilliant.

    We ought to award a prize or something and then alert the BIS, SEC, IMF and my Mom too while we are at it. Then lets get David Icke on the line. He will assure us all that the Queen of England and the people in power are all lizards with double eyelids who run the planet at their own beck and call.

    Totally crazy.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:24 PM

    “How much money do you think it would take to do all of the things you mention?”

    About 85 billion a month should do the trick.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:28 PM

    Why get mad when I have data. Look at these figures please Gary.

    Size of US Bond markets in 2011 —- 37 Trillion
    Size of US Equity Market capitalization 2011 —- 21 Trillion
    Global Stock markets — 54 Trillion
    Outstanding global Debt —- 96 Trillion…McKinsey Global Institute’s report “Mapping Global Capital Markets 2011
    Average daily turnover in currency markets globally — 4 trillion daily per the BIS.
    Daily turnover in the London Bullion Market —240 billion per day according to the BIS

    *Federal Reserve intervention volumes — 85 billion monthly (a mere 2.8 billion /day)

    Can we please stop with all the conspiracy nonsense now?

      Nov 05, 2013 05:35 PM
      Nov 05, 2013 05:59 PM

      My point obviously is that QE’s and Bond buying programs are just pennies compared to what actually takes place every day. That is not enough to leverage anything but the tiniest of markets. Time to stop paying attention to the foolish armchair economists who keep pumping conspiracy and manipulation theory because those ideas really do not fly in respect of how large these other markets really are. I read what silly stuff they write on sites all over the web and usually just bite my tongue. Gary….I ask you to think more about what you are saying and look harder at the raw numbers. If this is a manipulation then it is one that numbers in the many trilllions of dollars annually and must take thousands of monkeys on computers to make it all work.

      Nov 05, 2013 05:00 PM

      Birdman, sounds like you believe that there is no manipulation in the markets? Have you researched this? Try going to the GATA website. They are the experts on metals manipulation. And, Gary is right. All markets are manipulated. It is not conspiracy theory. I don’t go for conspiracy theory either but in this case, it is just a reality.

        Nov 05, 2013 05:07 PM

        There is a big difference between a bunch of guys salting cores to improve their results and a multi trillion dollar conspiracy involving thousands of people around the world (most of whom would not benefit anyway according to how the consiracy nutballs structure the idea). So no Glen, I do not buy into the suggestions that there is an empire of Fed driven manipulation striking at the heart of all our key markets. Why is it we only hear about this crap on radio shows and gold websites? How come nobody in any of the major banks worldwide has any complaints? Does this so-called manipulation of Bonds, Stocks, Currencies, Gold and Commodities somehow benefit all of them when it is all managed and run by the USA? Don’t even mention Rothchilds or I will really go crazy with posts.

          Nov 05, 2013 05:13 PM

          ok up to you good luke !

          Nov 05, 2013 05:19 PM

          day all scared ! you don’t now humans ! all the best ok

          Nov 05, 2013 05:29 PM

          You are just in a different camp Bird man. I will not argue with you on this subject. You win. We have free markets.

            Nov 05, 2013 05:34 PM

            oooooo bird man and glen luke diss up to YO ! bye bye

            Nov 05, 2013 05:38 PM

            You have to define “free market”.

            I agree that Goldman or whatever can do what it wants to do. The organizations just have the deep pockets needed to accomplish what the desired outcome is.

            Nov 05, 2013 05:22 PM

            And the expertise, Al. They have some of the best talent on the planet on their payroll.

          Nov 05, 2013 05:41 PM

          Don’t do that.

          Your point, Bird, is well taken.

            Nov 05, 2013 05:19 PM

            OK Al. I think I will return to biting my tongue on the whole topic of conspiracy and manipulations. I lost my temper with Gary yesterday but probably that is a waste of everyones time. Better to be peaceful.

            Certainly everyone is entitled to their own point of view. All I am really saying is that it is mathematically impossible for the Federal Reserve and a handful of key banks to materially affect the outcome of normal market activities. That is not to say that some funny business is not happening. We did have the Libor scandal after all and that is certainly documented proof of how insiders can rig markets.

            In these other cases though the probability of backroom shenanigans drops simply because of the vast level of liquidity, market size and the numbers of participants. The Federal Reserves daily bond buying activities represents barely 1% of the daily volume of gold trades in London. We would have to make some pretty wild assumptions of leverage to come close to accepting that the Fed and their friends really have the power to do much influencing on that score.

            Not that 100 to 1 leverage ratios are impossible but lets not forget that the purpose of buying bonds is to create assets on their balance sheet. How is that even leaking out into the world where the manipulators live? We would need to discover the mechanics of how that would work first and then also set aside the fact that many of these supposed price suppression schemes are actually money losing propositions.

            So then where do those massive losses end up? Who is absorbing them?

            There is obviously this idea that the Fed can just create unlimited electronic money entries and then do as it pleases but in reality that is not quite true. They would have to hide the evidence and just that single aspect of a price suppression program makes the whole idea preposterous. We are not talking petty cash here after all.

            Combined values for global equities markets, currency trades, bonds and commodities runs into the hundreds of trillions of dollars annually! That is why I am saying it is a mathematical impossibility for ANY one group, country or agency to significantly alter the outcome of our markets on a reliable basis.

            There is just no evidence for it in any case and we might easily imagine the paper trail left but such an organized program would be a mile wide. I must therefore refuse to accept Gary’s arguments that manipulation is playing much of a significant role in what is now taking place. There is no master pulling all the strings behind a curtain and no forces capable of significantly altering market behaviour.

            And that is perhaps a scarier thought than the idea of manipulation because it means we really are adrift and investing at the whims of forces well beyond our control. It means nobody can save us either. Fed interventions and those of the other major Central Banks have been unable to materially change the business cycle as they might have intended.

            We are seeing proof of this in how commodity markets are failing before our eyes. Had those agencies th power to move prices as they chose would they not already have done it?

            Nov 05, 2013 05:36 PM

            Talking from a psychological point of view (being psychology and economics my two main majors):

            Wishful thinking: involves believing something is true because we want it to be true, not because there is evidence that it’s true.

            Rationalization: is defined as a defense mechanism in which the individual attempts to justify his assumptions with faulty logic despite evidence to the contrary.

            Denial: is defined as a psychological defense mechanism in which confrontation or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of reality.

            Unfortunately Gary Savage is using these 3 defense mechanisms when he states that the government is manipulating the markets with the small sum of 85 billions per month and refuses to acknowledge the hard core evidence to the contrary.

            Again; this is science and Gary’s statements compared to hard core data. Not bashing.

            Nov 06, 2013 06:33 AM

            You are a pretty smart guy, Pibe

            Nov 05, 2013 05:36 PM

            Thanks Pibe. I agree this is not “Gary Bashing”. All we are doing is putting a little match to the myths that have become so prevalent that they are accepted as facts by many who follow the markets. Just a few moments spent analyzing the hard numbers though will save us a lifetime of heartbreak and misunderstandings. I absolutely agree the Federal Reserve is influential of course. The global community of investors do indeed look to them for leadership and what they do on US soil can materially impact all parts of the globe. What they cannot do though is change prices other than through efforts at modifying sentiments and behaviours of the millions who participate daily. The Fed is more paper tiger than a lion with sharp teeth. We note how most of their influence is achieved through little more than speeches and FOMC press releases than through the physical clubbing of market participants like a bunch of harp seals. At the end of the day most investors want hope. They would prefer the Fed succeed in lifting the markets and our spirits and so the influence has traction in markets where it is seen that policy intitiatives can lead to positive investor outcomes.

            Nov 05, 2013 05:39 PM

            By the way, I really enjoyed your psychological analysis. I will apply it to myself too!

        Nov 05, 2013 05:19 PM

        Anyone who wants to be educated can go to the GATA website and get educated on PM manipulation. I have found out that there is some people that do not wish to be educated. They just go along to get along. If you are one of those people that is fine with me. This is not the place to get into an argument about free markets. Not enough space. Not enough time. You want to believe that markets are free in the traditional sense? Go for it.

          Nov 05, 2013 05:52 PM

          Hi Glen,

          If you are referring to me, trust me I have spent literally hours talking with Chris and Bill.

          The bottom line question is, “does manipulation exist and, if so, why does it exist”?

          Sure in a very real sense it does exist.

          Does it exist because the “big guys” hate gold? Does it exist because the big guys have the ability to take the price any place they want to. And if the latter is the case, do the “big guys” take it to their desired level so they can profit from their actions?

          I would bet that the ultimate profit motive is the case.

          What do you think?

            Nov 05, 2013 05:31 PM

            Big Al, I hope you get this message. There is something called National Security. Protecting the dollar is a national security issue. The Feds protect the dollar for this reason alone. We go to war for this issue. Don’t think we wouldn’t go to war over this. The value of the dollar means many things. Paying the pensioners is only a small part of this. I don’t know where you are coming from Big Al but you are not 2013 sir. I respect you. But, you have to put yourself in the place of the Fed. They got a lot of mouths to try and feed. If people gotta suffer on account of metals manipulation that is OK. They want to make it OK for as many as possible and stupid metals savers gotta be the sufferers that is OK. This is a managed market sir.

            What are you talking about the big guys hate gold? They are trying to maintain the status quo so the pensioners can stay alive and the bankers can stay solvent.

            Get your mind right Big Al. You are thinking in the gutter.


            Nov 05, 2013 05:39 PM

            Once this paridigm is broken mr Big Al there is going to be a lot pensioners that will be broken. They will have to depend on family members for their bread. I am not looking forward to this since I live on the fringe. But, it is going to happen. Market manipulation? Go to the GATA sight sir. I know, that takes effort. You can’t punch the necessary keys to get to Chris Powells archive of information nor can Birdman. Too much trouble to learn something new sir? No biggy. We pensioners only have a few more years to live. Unless something changes. And, I don’t think it will. mr Al? Wake up sir. I respect you because you have this sight. You have no interest in learning the truth. And, in fact you want to continue investing in stocks.
            There is no panacea in the near future coming up.

            Nov 06, 2013 06:22 AM

            Thanks for sharing your views,Glen.

            I will repeat, Bill and Chris are personal friends. I have spoken at their conference and I have hosted fund raising events for them.

          Nov 05, 2013 05:28 PM

          With all due respect Glen I will forego the opportunity to be educated by Gata or anyone else on this topic. There is a great deal of misinformation and outright speculation (even lies and political agendas) that passes for the truth on the internet these days. You are welcome to buy into it but your trades will not improve as a result. It is great to have someone to blame when we don’t like how our investments are turning out but the conspiracy angle is one that is a pure waste of effort as it cannot be proven. Were it possible there would be untold numbers of class action suits seeking compensation. The lawyers would be all over it if they thought they could make a case. Obviously they cannot.

    Nov 05, 2013 05:03 PM

    ok Bird man LUK DISS need little time OK tank u !

      Nov 05, 2013 05:45 PM

      we live in a lai LAI lai LAI !!!!!!!!

    Nov 05, 2013 05:10 PM

    Anyone of you including Birdman can contact me at my email addy which is blueyes997 at We pensioners are on a knifes edge right now. Big Al, is on the edge and does not know it yet. Please cut back. Save some money, buy a few cans of pork and beans etc. Then drive on. Thanx

    Nov 05, 2013 05:52 PM

    Gary could be right about the amount of manipulation, I’ve always thought it was really bad and now apparently according to the CBC big prosecutions of US and British banks are about to begin. they claim in the 100’s of billions of dollars, I say let the finger pointing and tongue wagging begin, it will make for great drama if true. DT

      Nov 06, 2013 06:45 AM

      DT: any drama at all to get away from Mayor Ford mentioned on every news break on every station … even out west; who really gives a rat’s a**? -not I.

      But then I guess I could always go hang out at KWN, eh? haha! -hopefully they haven’t been reduced to talking about Ford over there.

        Nov 06, 2013 06:44 AM

        Irwin, this is insane. They were talking about it over here too. Why the hell would an African care about Mayor Ford. Blows my mind. Two people actually told me about the story.

      Nov 06, 2013 06:26 AM

      I completely agree Machine Gun!

    Nov 05, 2013 05:38 PM

    Glen, Al is saying he has spoken alot to Chris and Bill. Thats Chris powell and Bill (gates?) darn I forget his last name, but they both gata guys. Bill is the guy that presented the Andrew Maguire info to the cftc I believe.

    the manipulation of the libor rate was discussed to death at the max keiser site.
    General consencus was “hang em” naturaly. But libor I think manipulates everything.

    I know alot of debate about him but Bill Stills money masters really does show how the banks and fed manipulate things.

    Personally, I really dont know if manipulation is really a bad thing or not, doing it in sorta secret might be tho.

    Bird I really like your points, huge markets, makes me wonder, but when we have presidents telling us they manipulat I think we should believe them.

      Nov 05, 2013 05:11 PM

      Thanks B. Guess I am just saying lets use our own heads and do some deeper analysis whenever people start making improbable and unprovable claims of rigging and insider backroom deals. Gary’s assertion that “THEY” just won’t let it happen (referring to some unknown entities controlling both volumes and prices on US equity markets each day) is a dangerous trap to fall in too. I don’t disagree that an existng trend cannot be magnified. That is about the extent of their abilities though. The power of the Federal Reserve is greatly exaggerated.

        Nov 06, 2013 06:57 AM

        Obama loves yo really ! your empire country haas brainwash yo !

        Nov 06, 2013 06:04 AM

        The numbers don’t add up boy !

    Nov 06, 2013 06:48 AM

    all I can say is, I hope every one’s taking their meds this morning. I was afraid of getting hit with a flying cane or something last night when I ducked in here to see where Myrtle was.

    Nov 06, 2013 06:56 AM

    and on another topic:
    Premiers of BC and AB have kissed and made up .. agreeing in principle on pipelines. Next hurdle … convince a few million other folks opposed to any oil moving anywhere, to come aboard.

    BC, AB reach agreement in principle on moving oil