Weekend Show – Sat 3 Mar, 2012

Finance mixed with politics!

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

In this show Al discusses:

  • Segment 1 – Al and Rick Ackerman discuss people’s role and government’s roles.
  • Segment 2 – Craig Lindsay discusses the challenges faced by mining companies.
  • Segment 3 – Al and Trader Rog discuss real estate, among other things.
  • Segment 4 – Al and Ray Navis discuss the potential of real estate investments.
  • Segment 5 – Al and trust attorney Dennis O’Neil discuss investing in the resource sector.
  • Segment 6 and Segment 7 – Grant Williams weighs in, from Singapore, one the implications for investors of the U.S., Europe and the rest of the universe!
  • Segment 8 – Al and Jeff Deist, Chief of Staff for Congressman Ron Paul, discuss politics.



Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show

Click download link to listen on this device: Download Show


Featuring:
Al KorelinRick AckermanCraig LindsayRoger WiegandRay NavisGrant Williams
Jeff Deist
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Comments:
  1. On March 3, 2012 at 12:53 am,
    John W. Robertson says:

    Whew. You gotta get up PRETTY EARLY in the morning to be the first comment on this blog.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 7:44 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      YES JOHN YOU DO…I GUESS IRISH OVERSLEPT;

    • On March 3, 2012 at 2:48 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI John W,

      Or go to bed pretty late! 12:35 a.m. Hope you had a great night!

      Big Al

      • On March 3, 2012 at 9:02 pm,
        John W. Robertson says:

        I admit, it was the latter. Great fun staying up all night, trolling around!

        • On March 4, 2012 at 5:22 am,
          Jerry O^OTB says:

          john….is trolling,,, fishing…or for the little people

          • On March 4, 2012 at 1:56 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            More like gill-netting when it comes to finances and metals. But, I am dolphin-friendly.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 1:25 pm,
      Joseph says:

      PEOPLE LISTEN TO THIS ENCOURAGING AUDIO THE ONLY THING I WISH TO ADD IS BE PATIENT WHEN BUYING, HAVE STRATEGY. LET ME QUOTE JESUS AS WELL:
      “BEHOLD, I SEND YOU FORTH AS SHEEP IN THE MIDST OF WOLVES: BE YE THEREFORE WISE AS SERPENTS, AND HARMLESS AS DOVES. MATHEW
      Precious Metals Special Report with Kathryn Derbes, David Morgan and John…
      http://www.financialsense.com/financial-sense-newshour/big-picture/2012/03/03/03/k-derbes-d-morgan-j-doody/precious-metals-special-report

      • On March 4, 2012 at 1:26 pm,
        Joseph says:

        MATHEW 10:16

      • On March 4, 2012 at 4:49 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Thanks for the comment, Joseph.

        Big Al

  2. On March 3, 2012 at 3:26 am,
    Joseph says:

    Good Morning Al and company,
    Watch the video link at the bottom
    I stated in the past that you will never get responsible government because private citizens are out number by government employees and their pension will be and is the DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA as well as defense spending and all other ridiculous social spending. Therefore at the voting booth there will NEVER be a responsible candidate (Ron Paul) voting in and if there is one voted in he will have one hell a battle to make the changes needed while avoiding getting assassinated.
    I do not even know how you can buy any real estate in the USA at any price added to that living in a police state.
    Lastly what good is having gold and silver and the capability to buy food when people around you are starving. Your life will be in danger as well because you will be a target. How can you rationally believe that having a gun will save you. Maybe temporally at the beginning. But when news gets out you have food and gold you will be the biggest target on the block.
    My suggestion is come to Canada where it is safer. This is advise as good as buying gold and silver I believe.
    Lord Bless and help us all. Joseph

    Government Employees: The True 1%

    • On March 3, 2012 at 6:20 am,
      impeachemall says:

      Canda safe? Everyone including Rick Ackerman knows that in Greater British Cuba, capitalists will be left to rot on a 120-year waiting list for a broken collar bone, right?

      • On March 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Hi Impeachemall,

        Not sure about that waiting list. Our youngest daughter lives in Vancouver and has been there for about two years. She has had a couple of medical issues and tells us the medical care has been really great. She was involved in an auto accident a while back. She called and said her neck hurt. Needless to say I was there in less than an hour and took her to the emergency room at St. Paul’s Hospital. She got really great and almost immediate care!

        Most of our Canadian friends have no complaints about the medical system up there.

        Best,

        Big Al

        • On March 4, 2012 at 3:13 pm,
          impeachemall says:

          Well, good to hear about real experiences. Don’t worry, my comment was meant to be ironical.

          • On March 4, 2012 at 4:52 pm,
            Big Al says:

            You know,

            The whole world is getting ironical.

            I wasn’t being defensive by the way. I have to tell everyone, that aside from the cost of living our daughter simply loves it up there! Kathy and I do also, but I am getting really tired of paying so much for eating in restaurants. It is almost ridiculous!

            Best,

            Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 8:11 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      Joseph….great comments….
      are you saying that ,,,,,,, If, IRISH pulls up in his Rolls, and wearing his Rolex, that he
      may become a” target”……..
      I agree with you on the real estate comment……, I think going forward , one must stay
      mobile……life is much to uncertain…to establish roots in any part of the country,at
      this time…
      enjoyed….have a great week….Jerry ootb

      • On March 3, 2012 at 3:00 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Howdy Mr. In the Box,

        My good friend Gary Freeman and his wife Bonnie were walking downtown in Mexico City. He was wearing a Rolex and his wife was carrying a Louis Vitton purse. Very shortly he was greeted by a man who stuck a gun in his face. Needless to say 30 seconds later his watch was gone as was his wife’s purse.

        His comment to me? I was an absolute idiot to have that stuff!

        Big Al

        • On March 3, 2012 at 3:55 pm,
          castanheiro says:

          Absolutely right Big Al,
          Take it from one who lived his first 17 years in a third world country. If you dress like a wealthy tourist, you might as well just wear a big sign on your back that says, “Rob me please!” You dress, act, and conduct yourself like a “commoner” and don’t advertise. Smile alot and be friendly, but always keep your guard up. And, keep your money in your front pocket, not in your wallet, wear fairly snug fitting pants(pick-pockets hate that) and keep yourself in pretty fair shape in case you have to sprint awhile. ha ha.

          • On March 3, 2012 at 4:30 pm,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            OR JUST GIVE THEM THE FAKE ROLEX…..THEY WON’T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE..

          • On March 3, 2012 at 9:04 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            I like Jerry’s answer!

          • On March 4, 2012 at 3:22 pm,
            instagram says:

            Smile cluelessly, and wear clean, white sneakers regardless of your body mass index – a surefire way to let everyone know you are a harmless American.

          • On March 4, 2012 at 4:55 pm,
            Big Al says:

            HI Mr. C,

            You know it’s kind of interesting, but I never had a bad experience in either Argentina or Chile. Also never in Mexico.

            I think it is just a matter of common sense.

            The only time I have ever been hassled, interestingly enough, is when we were in a southern Oregon seaside town and once or twice in Seattle. Kind of interesting isn’t it!

            Best,

            Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 2:52 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI Joseph,

      I am about 15 minutes away from Canada thanks to The Little Blond Lady!

      You live in a great country my friend, but I still have hope down here!

      P.S. You raise some very interesting points!
      Big Al

  3. On March 3, 2012 at 3:30 am,
    Joseph says:
    • On March 3, 2012 at 8:33 am,
      Dennis Brophy says:

      Joseph, you`ve got a really hot Link, I`m taking it to be posted on my facebook page. Thanks.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 12:21 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      Joseph……THIS IS A MUST LISTEN TO…. GREAT POST….

  4. On March 3, 2012 at 4:24 am,
    Bobby says:

    Al, RE: 3-5: Rog is mostly correct.
    IMO houses are hard assets, but they are depreciating assets, be sure to keep that in mind. As he stated watch out for fees and taxes.
    Al comments regarding “inexpensive” is relative to prices that were NOT REAL but bubble inflated prices. Saying 50 cents on the dollar is a wrong analagy.
    Ray is getting at the crux, saying that expensive homes are “starting to capitulate.”
    Both are correct regarding financing.
    IMO, Look for prices to fall to 1997-1998 prices before we are finished falling.
    Real estate investments are for rental and commercial properties only where one has CASH FLOW.
    Buyers beware!

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:06 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI Bobby,

      I really appreciate your insights.

      I am okay because both the the properties that Kathy and I purchased up in Semiahmoo were selling for our purchase prices back in 1997. That is why I am pretty comfortable with each of them.

      I would not purchase any more real estate at this point personally. And, I certainly would not purchase anything without putting down at lease 70% as a down-payment.

      Good thoughts from you, my friend!

      Big Al

  5. On March 3, 2012 at 9:06 am,
    benb says:

    Howdy Al
    Joeseph has a point that is an issue, only positive I can figure is at least the money is givin to people and they will spend it being a good thing for the economy.
    Its money not going to goldman saks,jp morgan etc.
    In canada we have recently become aware our government is corrupt with the vote manipulation,we (the world) now knows the reason Gordon Brown sold british gold was to protect Goldman saks short position on gold at the time. We all should by now know exactly what the american government is.
    Be careful what you put in print, facist governments have been known to go back a decade once they are solidified to “root out” disenters.
    Some people are saying gold shares are undervalued, Are they? Nobody wants them.
    Maybe the free market IS working. Who can blame anyone for not wanting to buy any shares in anything? mf global, short selling/rumour combo and the entire system ready to collapse.
    Last week I was making the point about owning shares over physical metal,even with a surge in share prices after tax the better thing is physical and obviously no counterparty risk which is HUGE today.
    I have tried to get people to buy physical with the argument that jesus taught “get rid of the moneychangers” Follow the teaching. nope
    Now I try remove the metal from the market,guys like Mr. Sprott agree.
    The most interesting thing to me in these interviews was when Al was talking to a gentlman when silver was $37. No offence Al but totaly unaware of the take down about to occur. The market is corrupt. This is scaring alot of people away,ask ms. Bernhart (sp).
    I have what could be looked at as an “out of the box” idea.
    I believe Ron Paul is our best hope.
    I hope that when the day comes the republicans decide who will rum for pesedent, Mr Paul needs to say, “I run as the candadate or I run independent”
    If they dont it would gaurentee a republican loss.
    If Alex Jones is to be belived when he says that he drives for miles and can find no other bumper sticker or sign that is not Ron Paul then Ron Paul has a chance to win as an independent.
    Romny, Gingrich and Santorum are white obama clones and we all know that.
    Therefore I say Ron Go For It.
    It might be akin to a hail mary pass but if he doesnt win the presedency, I hounustly
    Hate to think how much they gonna turn the heat up on us boiling frogs.
    Thanks for putting up with my ramble.
    Thanks again Al and Rog for everything you guys do.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 10:29 am,
      Dennis Brophy says:

      Hi Benb, Amen and Amen(so be it). If Ron Paul doesn`t get the nomination for the GOP, he should run as an Independent. I`m voting for him as a write in. The other`s running are such crooks, like what benb called them obama`s clones. I call them the 3 Stooges(mitt,rick,newt or moe,larry,curry) and lest we forget the 4th Stooge(obama, the test tube baby, that`s right Obama wasn`t born the normal way he was conceived in a test tube, long ago in a bunker in Germany, Adolf was doing what many people do – jerking off with time on his hands came up with a grand scheme to father hopefully a son. While one day jerking off as he did, while Germany was burning to the ground above he had Dr. Strangelove put some of you know what in a glass test tube and to be stored into a freezer till one day the white peoples party could have a hero once again; but oops one day down doing artificial insemination to a jack-ass he did the deed, lucky for us it was sent to the states: Hawaii, USA. And a fine white family raised this individual as their grandson. His first name reflected his mother `the jack-ass`, while his family decided on Obummber but shorten it to Obama. Well that`s that. Hilter`s really got a son, so true to his heritage. A complete as_hole. . http://www.livescience.com/18556-proof-hilter-illegitimate-son-html – )

      • On March 3, 2012 at 3:16 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Common Dennis B,

        That’s a little grotesque even for all of us.

        I have said many, many times that I do not agree with his policies, but Hitler’s son?

        I know you probably don’t mean that, but it is not something I would want kids (who have access to the internet) to read!

        Big Al

        • On March 3, 2012 at 5:07 pm,
          Dennis Brophy says:

          Al that`s right its a little too much for this site if you want to delete it, or email it to Comedy Central, or late night with whoever. I thought it was really funny when I wrote it, SORRY. Al I won`t do this again on your site.

          • On March 4, 2012 at 4:59 pm,
            Big Al says:

            HI Dennis,

            Please remember that it is all of our site. Hell, it is really about all of you!

            Your point about Comedy Central or late night whoever is a really great point. I simply can’t believe some of the crap we can watch on tv.

            Hopefully all of us can make things better because they are pretty bad right now!

            Best,

            Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      benb…..THANKS FOR THE PLUG……O^O TB…

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:11 pm,
      Big Al says:

      No benb,

      The thanks really go to all of you folks. And, I really mean that!

      There is some real “crap” going on out there and I am more concerned than I have ever been in my entire life!

      I am really trying to do what is right for myself and my family. Time will tell.

      Best,

      Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:22 pm,
      Joseph says:

      Hi Benb,

      If it was ok to give unmeritted money to unworthy public employees and private citizens free lunches why is it that the world is in such a mess. People find the Bible(God’s Word) out dated and not relevant for today. Here is a quote that you and most of the world never heard “…this we command you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” 2Thessalonians 3:10
      Now this does not mean ill and/or unable people. Read carefully it says “would not work” As for the sick elderly , orphans & widows that is the role of a true Church. But try to find one. Therefore it is our role and the Governemnt to help the true needy. People on social assistance according to God must work for their bread. If they get x amount they must work for the amount they receive. This way they will not stay lazy and enocouaged to find work.
      Let me leave you with this so that you will not wish to follow corrupt people and life styles:
      “It is appointed unto man once to die after this the judgement” Hebrews 9:27
      Got that O.J, Simpson. There is no escape
      God Bless Joseph

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:01 pm,
        Big Al says:

        HI Joseph,

        That, my friend, is a really great comment!

        Thank you,

        Big Al

  6. On March 3, 2012 at 9:08 am,
    Marc says:

    Big Al,
    I think I can comment on San Diego. I have lived here over 45 years, and have years of real estate experience here . I live in a beautiful area and emphatically, yes, the market has dropped significantly – even in the most desirable areas, i.e. like the coastal communities. My attorney friend, just sold his family home as trustee. I am tellin you guys this thing is a beautiful home, older, BUT sits right over the Pacific Beach/Pt Loma area with a view on the hill that most in the world would “die” for. He could have thrown a rock and hit homes occupied by the late owner of McDonalds (beautiful lady, BTW), etc. Top of the market – 2005 approx. 5 million, just sold it last year at 1.8 million!!!! True story….my family home – right down the hill….has dropped 25 to 30% That is only because the home is significantly “cheaper” that the one previously mentioned – many more potential buyers in this market. Bottom line – highly desirable – stuff has too dropped significantly. Just years ago all these RE pros said there is no way this would happen! Does that sound familiar to all our “paper asset friends out there. THE PICKINS ARE GOOD FOR ‘THINGS” REAL ESTATE, MINING COMPANIES AND ALL HARD ASSETS – GO GET WHILE THE GETTIN IS GOOD!
    All the very best,
    Marc

    • On March 3, 2012 at 9:10 am,
      Marc says:

      BTW,
      Great weekend show as usual – Big Al, and Go Aztecs!

      • On March 3, 2012 at 9:34 am,
        Marc says:

        Hey Guys,
        One last comment -……I also own prime investment real estate in Mission Beach right down the road…If I didn’t babysit my tenants by being flexible with rental agreements it would be ugly right now. My “anchor” tenant, a surf shop, I gave a 20% rental discount, just to keep him going. That was 3 years ago! The reason I bring this up, is that my tenants, the hard-working, small business guys is where you really see people hurting and this has been going on for awhile. BELIEVE ME, it is a
        “tip-of-the-iceberg” of a MAJOR problem brewing and the backbone of the economy is in major trouble…the signs are everywhere!
        Marc

        • On March 3, 2012 at 3:20 pm,
          Big Al says:

          HI Marc,

          Yep, the hard-working, small business guys really need to stay nimble!

          Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:19 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hi Marc,

      I could not agree with you more!

      Bruins beat the Dawgs today. Guess that means that if the Aztecs play the Dawgs, the Dawgs will probably get beaten.

      I may be seriously ill before that famous football game coming up in Sept!

      Big Al

  7. On March 3, 2012 at 9:23 am,
    Keep Stacking says:

    Hi Big Midas Al,
    Buy low and sell high. Isn’t that the way we learned? Around 52 week lows and wait for a breakout, on something good, then buy. Another really good weekend show. Big Al, you do have the Midas touch.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:21 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hi Keep Stacking,

      I am pretty careful because I know what happens to people who believe they will never be wrong.

      Thanks for the comments re: the Show.

      Best,

      Big All

      • On March 3, 2012 at 5:13 pm,
        Keep Stacking says:

        Hi Big Al,
        I was just kidding calling you Midas. You and Trader Rog and your site with the weekend shows have really helped me with the confidence going forward. Its going to be a great year for all of us. Best to you.

        • On March 4, 2012 at 5:02 pm,
          Big Al says:

          I hate to repeat myself Mr. Keep but it is really about all of us and not just me, Rog and the others.

          You ladies and gentlemen really make this site great!

          Best,

          Big Al

  8. On March 3, 2012 at 9:27 am,
    benb says:

    I have another thing about people not wanting thus the $ cost going down.
    Look at Silver corp. In production producing 10s of millions of oz gold/silver, huge amounts of cash, extending resorces and paying dividends, less than 200 mil shares. $7. Why on earth would people even be looking at companies still exploring with prices around $5? The reason I believe is silvercorp got hit with statments that short sellers started and made millions. Now there doesnt seem to be enough money in the market to get the share price up to their peers. There are others out there like this but my point is,Are we not at fair value for somthing when no one wants somthing?
    Same could be for real estate, if no one has the money to buy it whats it worth?
    Anyway, thanks for the show Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 11:31 am,
      Keep Stacking says:

      Hi benb,
      SVM looks like a good buy coming off of its 52 week low of $5.86.
      What i am looking for is 3-4-and 5 baggers this year, with silver coming off its 52 week low. To me that is the Midas touch. Best to you.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:26 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Your point, benb, as it relates to real estate is really well taken.

      The really interesting point, in my mind, is that wealthy people were not buying the stupidly expensive McMansions, They were purchased by silly people who were given loans they should not have been given. Big number of people were in that category and that category is not so big anymore and seems to be getting smaller each and every day.

      What does that say about the future?

      Big Al

  9. On March 3, 2012 at 9:53 am,
    benb says:

    Also silvercorp is predicting a 20% increase for 2012 i believe.
    Little story, a friend of mine had a windfall of 33k a couple years ago. I recommended to him to preserve his wealth immediatly by taking 200k and buying physical gold. He decided to bank it and figure out what he was going to do. Taking the high price that month to now its worth 280k. He lost 80k purchasing power. As most here know the value of gold hasnt changed since the time of nebechonezer (sp).
    My point,I do not recomend shares, now is the time to preserve wealth and thats physical. The market is corrupt. The only reason im in it is after the 08 crash I multiplyied maybe 10 times, removed maybe triple my original investment and have been removing any wins ive hit ever sicne. I operate on “market funds” I cannot lose.
    Im just trying to stay in the game should this “blast off” ever occur. But to anyone I know I recommend physical and tell them they are gambling big time if they think they could do what I have done. Im not kidding myself, I got lucky by getting in just after that 08 crash. It was almost impossible not to pick winners for about a year, think I was running maybe 95% winners last year think I hit 3. oh well. GLTA.
    Thanks again for putting up with me Al.

  10. On March 3, 2012 at 10:09 am,
    benb says:

    Gotta correct myself. That friend windfall was 300k. I recommended 2/3 physical 1/3 cash. After 08 my recommendation was 1/3 shares,1/3 physical 1/3 cash. I did not recomend silver as I knew he couldnt handle volitility even tho I knew it was better and actually would have paid him 150k. Now I recommend 75% physical and 25% cash.
    An argument could be made for more physical but Im not an advisor Im only talking about if a friend were to ask me. And who really knows maybe gold itself will tank bigtime should we get the next crash that people are talking about that is supposed to be 100 times worse than 08.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 10:21 am,
      Marc says:

      Benb,
      I find it very good of you to be so involved in your friend’s financial health. I have friend’s that I handle with care because I don’t want to be overbearing -at all.
      Do they listen? A little to not at all! Not a good sign and not a good track record for me in that department. But, I will tell you that my new trust attorney and a friend of mine for 23 years is BIG TIME into the physicals ESPECIALLY silver. He has four very young kids to look after and a wife who takes mighty good care of them. Do you think he would be mostly “ALL IN” if he didnt think this was the right thing to do!? No frinkin way. And BTW, what makes this example of him so validating for us, hard asset investors – he ALSO holds the top securities license in the US. In other words, he is a VERY sophisticated guy who knows investments, law AND finance.
      Good for you to help your buddy – or trying to!
      All the best,
      Marc

      • On March 3, 2012 at 1:59 pm,
        John W. Robertson says:

        Marc, benb,

        In October 2005, I told about 5 people who had enough assets to lose, about the obvious and upcoming housing crash. I didn’t want to sound overbearing either, but I’m afraid it always sounds that way no matter how hard one tries. I also watched in disbelief here in the Phoenix area as new ground was still being broken up through 2008, adding 200,000 sq ft more commercial space here and 150,000 sq ft there. What were these developers thinking? I think a lot of folks who made money in real estate in the 1990′s didn’t know anything else, so they just kept doing what they knew, hoping RE would get better ‘next year’. Had one graphed the price/sq foot for the 2000′s to that point…you could easily call the blow-off top, the probable bottom (still coming) and the inevitable banking crash that would happen as a result. I sure wish I had the same $10,000,000 to invest in 2006 that was being wasted by RE investment trusts here and there. It would certainly not have been put into real estate. (Anyone guess where I would have put it?!)

        Continue to give the occasional friend or family member advice. Some will accept it, and that makes it worthwhile. Saving 1 person $300,000 is a laudable goal. I’m trying to caution someone in Vancouver not to buy a condo/apartment right now. I don’t think Vancouver will crash like Phoenix, but the For Sale signs are already going up and staying up longer as Asian investors prefer to raise cash. I may be wrong on this one, but it’s worth rustling the feathers a bit just to ensure friends can see another opinion other than “up, up, up”.

        • On March 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm,
          Big Al says:

          Great point John W,

          We’ve spent about four day in Vancouver over the past couple of weeks. We are looking for a new apartment as ours is on the market and has been for about three months. About 750 square feet on the corner of Robson and Cordova just above a 7-11 store and Asian nightclub.

          The owner wants $600K and has had no bites yet. I am not surprised.

          Big All

          • On March 3, 2012 at 4:49 pm,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            AL….the new norm is $600,000 ,,,reality has not set in with the mainstream….
            to many tv shows ,,,which are showing real estate all over the world….
            at these price points…..unfortunately, financing will be the issue, along
            with the ratio….income to debt….prices are going to come down….
            maybe not this year….but, next year lets bring up the same topic and
            compare notes….

          • On March 3, 2012 at 9:17 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            Well, as Jerry (another RE guy) says, there’s a new norm alright. In my opinion, I’m not sure if it is tenable in Canadian real estate for a whole lot longer. Canadian income taxes are still higher, and with no interest deduction, the main reason RE has been so hot is speculation from Asian buyers over the last 20 years. Now if that slows or stops…

        • On March 3, 2012 at 3:54 pm,
          Marc says:

          Boy John W.
          As usual, you are sooooooooo right! (alluding to paragraph one – especially)
          You are almost too logical sometimes :). Maybe you should be in contention come early November.
          Marc

          • On March 3, 2012 at 9:20 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            Wow, you are too kind. (but keep it up!) I really liked your example in San Diego too Marc, and actually read it a couple of times. If sunny So Cal can see prices drop, anywhere can. I feel sorry for the business owners as you say, but also hope your investment is still OK. Real estate is great most of the time. It’s just these little crashes now and then.

        • On March 3, 2012 at 4:44 pm,
          Jerry O^OTB says:

          JOHN…..that is the difference , between a professional, and a want a be professional.

          • On March 3, 2012 at 9:21 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            Absolutely Jerry, and you certainly sound like one of the pros. I watch some of the names of real estate partnerships in the area. Seems like many of the same names are the ones that aren’t doing well.

        • On March 3, 2012 at 5:57 pm,
          castanheiro says:

          Hi John W.R.,
          I couldn’t agree with you more!! I too have tried to persuade friends and family, but they are so emotionally tied into the ‘system’ that they can’t do anything different than just continue to ‘follow the herd’. You can see in their eyes that they know what you’re saying is right, but they just can’t quite come to full faith, at least not enough conviction so that they would be motivated to make a change. We’ve been trained or ‘brainwashed’ to believe that we MUST leave the investing up to the ‘professionals’, meaning the large, traditional, investment companies, where I was for 25 years with a 457 plan. It’s way to sophisticated for the average ‘bloke’ to handle, as was insinuated to me. So they place their faith in the hands of someone who doesn’t understand what’s going on, or doesn’t care, just so long as he/she gets their commission. Well, I got tired of seeing my meager portfolio really going nowhere in real dollar terms. Cashed it all out, paid off my debts and invested the rest myself, and I’m much happier now than I ever was when they had it. If I lose it now, it’s my fault and no one else’s. And if I make a good profit, I thank my dear Lord and count my blessings. Ah, what a life!! Looking forward to an exceedingly profitable 2012!! Best to all!

          • On March 3, 2012 at 9:23 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            Castanheiro,

            Good for you for taking control. I did much the same in 2000, when I was sensing the stock market really was suffering from irrational exhuberance. I was a bit lucky, no question, but very glad I stopped investing in stupid ‘virtual funds’ at the local bank and took control. Doing so has allowed me to run a business for the better part of the last 7 years. I thank my dear Lord and count my blessings too. There have been many.

          • On March 4, 2012 at 5:06 pm,
            Big Al says:

            Really great comments Mr. C,

            I hope that you continue to do well,

            Big Al

      • On March 3, 2012 at 3:34 pm,
        Big Al says:

        HI Marc,

        Please put me in touch with this guy and let’s get his ideas on our program.

        Thanks,

        Big Al

        • On March 3, 2012 at 9:24 pm,
          John W. Robertson says:

          Marc,

          I agree. Would be great for all of us to hear from the guy here on KER.

          • On March 4, 2012 at 9:56 am,
            Marc says:

            Hey guys,
            I will do my best, of course, predicated on his feelings about being “on stage”. :)
            All the best,
            Marc

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:32 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hi again benb,

      I don’t really think you are so crazy. You are kind of diversifying and you have over the past few years.

      I like my method of diversification which is greater than yours. If you are correct, I still win and if I am correct, you also win only perhaps to a greater degree!

      Big Al

  11. On March 3, 2012 at 10:33 am,
    Dennis M. O'Neil says:

    A house may be a hard asset but it is certainly not money.
    A key element of money is portability.
    Although in rare circumstances you can move a house…..think of the scene from
    “Deliverance” when the town was about to be flooded so the solution was to at great expense move the Church on a flat bed truck. (Think about the symbolism of that for a second)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc5PzujncII&feature=related
    Although you could possibly move a house it is not portable. If you go out on a limb and buy a mobile home to solve this problem then have good luck storing value with that highly depreciating asset.
    Another element of money is divisibility. Good old Abe summed up the house divisibility problem quite well when he famously said “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Divisibility is important in an inflationary environment from a liquidity stand point. ‘Pieces of eight’ was formed a singular whole. Although you could syndicate a property like a race horse and disperse fractional ownership. This is only practical in dispersing the rent value/proceeds of the house. It would not be practical to hold a small share of the use of a house. Also relying on the dispersing of paper in a culture that just went through a severe paper inflation has challenges. Does anyone want a time share?
    The Assignat was paper money back by the seized Papal Lands in France. This real property backed money worked so well they used the guillotine predominantly to coerce the medium of exchange’s use.
    In a famous banking case John Marshall wrote “The power to tax is the power to destroy.” Unfortunately there are a plethora of instances where people supposedly own a house free and clear but are paying significantly more property taxes on the real estate then they once paid when the home was mortgaged. Do you really own real estate? Or do we just rent them from government? Think about this next time a school levy is voted on. Then ask yourself why are the voting machines in the high school right next to the teacher’s lounge and the levy always pass on the off year elections.
    Finally, another aspect of housing is in a monetary inflation not all assets will experience price inflation consistently across the board. Assets that rely more heavily on debt for transfer can be expected to experience less demand in certain scenarios. Certain sub-classes of a general class may outperform the general class. Farmland may outperform residential and commercial real estate or example.
    Existing starter homes on a percentage basis are on average outperforming hastily thrown up McMansions (with the possible exception of DC).
    To the extent housing does appreciate it will be relative to other assets classes outperforming especially when factoring in all expenses.
    You may feel great that your $500,000 house appreciated to $1,000,000 but does that appreciation increase your wealth in an environment in which a gallon of milk went from $3 to selling for $10.
    Going forward people will be more likely to own homes they need rather than the homes they want. Own a practical home and to the extent you “house up” take a portion of your housing cost out of the the discretionary budget.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 10:54 am,
      Marc says:

      Dennis,
      Gotta chime in here real quickly. Your first line says it all. One of the many reasons people are in the mess they are is because they used their homes as ATMs during the housing bubble in the early 2000′s. That goes under the heading: Financial disaster 101″. Your comments are very astute and well-thought out. A home is just that a home – nothin more and nothing less….cant afford it…you cant live there. Simple as that. My expertise is investment RE. It’s just that. An investment with hopefully POSITIVE cash flow. In this market we have now, capital gains will be minimal, until inflation rears it head….which is now. Of course, this is offset by inflation in living needs, etc.. Plus, you cant pull equity out without raising your debt burden. But, can you find tenants to fill the space? Commercial real estate is iffy, but rental apts and the like is much more stable. People need a place to live – period. That’s why paying cash for rental units/condos that are hammered here in San Diego – I believe is a good call. Regarding taxes, our prop 13, which holds prop tax cap at 1% a year with stuff purchased before 1978 is CONSTANTLY under attack from politicians…..it is a golden calf of tax revenue that they want to tap into. Hopefully, we can keep them off our backs.
      Marc

      • On March 3, 2012 at 1:30 pm,
        Dennis says:

        A house is shelter.
        A nice house is a nice shelter you pay more to live in.
        Neither of the above should be considered part of a portfolio.
        A house is part of your estate. But an investment portfolio should not include a primary residence.
        When you engage your budget your property taxes, liabilities, utilities and upkeep better all have line entries or you are lying to yourself.
        In the mid to late seventies when selling a house people actually investigated utility costs and types. Sales were made and lost based on base board forced water versus central air heat. This was back when Pres. Ford had the Whip Inflation Now campaign followed by Pres. Carter wearing sweaters in the Oval Office. What percentage of people engaged in depth research of utilities when buying a house in 2005,2006 – 2007.
        Many were buying a monthly payment not caring what it adjusted to 60 months out.
        A primary residence is a place to live. You should live in the most modest house you wife will let you.
        Vacation homes, rentals and commercial property are businesses not assets.

        • On March 3, 2012 at 9:30 pm,
          John W. Robertson says:

          “You should live in the most modest house you(r) wife will let you.”

          What, you bucking to be the next Rodney Dangerfield?

          • On March 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm,
            castanheiro says:

            Hi John,
            That’s funny! LOL! How are you gonna get any respect doing that?

          • On March 4, 2012 at 5:17 pm,
            Big Al says:

            I don’t know John W,

            I think that his character in Caddy Shack was pretty cool!

            Big Al

          • On March 4, 2012 at 7:06 pm,
            Marc says:

            Great comment – John W….just classic!
            Marc

        • On March 4, 2012 at 5:16 pm,
          Big Al says:

          HI Dennis and Mr. O’Neil,

          We had a funny experience along these lines last winter when we spent three months in the Desert (Palm Desert)

          Hosing on golf courses were and are really, really, and more really cheap. Kathy and I thought seriously about buying one. I called our CPA and we discussed the issue. I told him I wanted to take some money off the table, so to speak, and that a golf course condo might be a great idea. It took Mike about two minutes to convince me that doing this was the act of an imbecile.

          I agree with Marc about purchasing rental properties, but vacation homes (ie, desert golf condos)? I know one guy and his wife who will not do that!

          Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm,
      castanheiro says:

      Hi Dennis and Marc,
      Great info on RE! Much appreciated! Boy, Big Al, as always Great Show!! You are the ‘ringmaster’ extraordinaire!

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:18 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Thanks Mr C,

        Big Al

    • On March 3, 2012 at 9:28 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      Dennis,

      You bring up a very good point too in your last two sentences too. When the margin call of life hits, people just want out of most holdings and investments. Irrational or not, they just want their fiat money back in the bank account. This is one area I disagree with several of the China bulls. If a downturn comes, a person in China would hold gold before they’d hold property.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 12:59 pm,
        Dennis O'Neil says:

        Take your solid point one step further.
        The baby bomb demographic has now left their prime spending years.
        The generation that is akin to a rat passing through the body of a snake leaves behind it a wake of market preference changes.
        The time for BabyBoomers are focused on downsizing form 3500 to 4000 sq ft homes is upon us. Some who would have made this move already have stalled because of recent setback in what they once thought ace in the hole. Put becuase they are a few years from having knee replacement are eyeing that ranch style 1500 sq ft condo.

        • On March 4, 2012 at 1:23 pm,
          Dennis O'Neil says:

          I pressed send on the above by accident…. sorry I need an editor:
          To summarize the above point:
          It is wise to keep in mind the life cycle and purchasing preference of the Baby Boomers. Understand what they are about to likely sell and what they are about to likely buy. Then act accordingly.
          Single level downsizing units, near a golf community, with a gym that has a lot of treadmills, located close by quality assisting living so the healthy spouse can visit often…….now there may be increased demand for something like that!

          • On March 4, 2012 at 5:22 pm,
            Big Al says:

            HI Dennis O,

            You are, in my mind, absolutely correct.

            Most of our neighbors up here have downsized from the “big mansion” to typically a 2K to 3K square foot place.

            That demographic is really important to realize.

            Big Al

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:19 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Dennis,

        I have had a lot of experience with Asian folks throughout my life.

        Your statement is absolutely correct!

        Big Al

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:10 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Great insight Mr. O Neil,

      You are one unique and (in my mind) clear thinking attorney.

      Big Al

  12. On March 3, 2012 at 10:40 am,
    Jerry O^OTB says:

    SEG. 4…COMMENT OF REAL ESTATE….$800,000 to 2 mill, capitulation….
    Yes real estate is capituating…..but, is it a” good investment, today”,
    Real estate while looking like a great investment, my not be infact
    true….I have always learned in real estate , it takes two people ,
    to establish value…..A SELLER , AND A BUYER…..AND THAT TO
    ESTABLISH VALUE , A MEETING OF THE MINDS MUST OCCUR….

    First…..There were never enought” millionaires”BUYERS.. to live in all
    these over priced properties built..(you can check out the no. of millionairs in2002)

    Secondly…..To realistically qualify for a loan on a million dollar property.THE BUYER should never borrow more than .2 times their income, This is what you can afford….as a burden for repayment and pay for other things required in life….the past qualification rule,bare this out..
    So, how many people are making $500,000 a year….? Not that many….
    2x time incomeof$ 500,000 year equal = $1,000,000 value of property…
    This caused the glut or over priced million dollar houses……lack of millionairs
    (supply and demand is working here)

    Thirdly….ROADBLOCK….financing….yes , the financing is a problem and will continue to be a problem….BANK DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO LEND…LIQUIDITY ?(is not that our fed.reserve’s problem)and if the next potential buyer can not get a loan, how do
    you sell, your fantastic marked down real estate…
    Problem now and in the future…

    Fourthly….SELLING YOUR PURCHASE IN THE FUTURE FOR A PROFIT….. at sometime , in the future, you will want to sell
    or your family will need to sell,,, and then …Who , do you sell the property to…?
    Since, the next Batch of people(buyers) are GEN. X OR Y,which in size , number of
    people (4o million)BUYERS, is less, than the number of potential baby boomer(7o million)SELLERS. SELLERS OUT NUMBER THE BUYERS,(supple and demand) which do not have any money,or jobs…which means income , which means payment , which means some kind of real estate value…which means qualification….and do not have incomes of$500,000
    ARE THE NUMBER OF”MILLIONAIRE” BUYERS,, MORE OR LESS IN GEN X AND Y,
    I think LESS…
    Conclusion…WHO ARE YOU GOING TO” SELL” ALL THIS OVERVALUED REAL ESTATE TO…
    that you are buying at this fantastic discount now, you need to discount it further, for the next buyer….? I think so….(supply and demand again),when you have more
    sellers than buyers…that means reduction in price….

    FIFTHLY…..Million dollar … real estate is going to decline in value….and as Roger said,
    real estate is in the tank…for at least 15 years….(I GIVE ROGER CREDIT HERE
    BECAUSE HE WAS A REAL ESTATE DEVEL.)

    SIXTHLY….. BY THE TIME, gen x or y,
    become ” millionairs”,( it will be equal to minimum wage…)
    inflation will have taken hold….problem a million buck won’t buy the same amount.

    SEVENTHLY…..SO, on the bright side , buy the million dollar house, you will get the money back
    in 15 years…wait….did I pay one million dollars,,,no, figure the intrest you pay,back
    that will be two million…(rule of 72)…. now , you have a capital loss, great, write it
    off….you will not be paying income taxes….great carry forward….one problem
    you lost one million dollars…..great investiment…
    I think I can do without……OR you buy….at a discount of 50%, then you might have
    a great deal….but, you still must figure carrying charges REAL ESTATE TAXES,
    LIGHTS, MAINT. REPLACEMENT OF WEAR AND TEAR ITEMS, COLOR AND DECORATION
    CHANGES…(which change every year, things do not stay the same)ARCHITECTUAL CHANGES, ENERGY CHANGES..SELLING CHARGE OF 7%

    CONCLUSION..
    easy to sign for…hard to get rid of……INVESTMENT OR MONEY TRAP….

    Lastly….Diversification,,,yes, you do need a place for shelter,,,and sometimes you might be able to sell it , when you need the money for your nursing home payment..
    Remember, no one can tell, when the next opportunity will be, or what that
    investment might be….but, logic might be a clue…and everyone has different
    ideas…and no two people are alike…..

    • On March 3, 2012 at 11:50 am,
      Keep Stacking says:

      Hi Jerry,
      I really like your writing. How many people bought real estate at a high hoping for it to go higher? Broke rule no. 1 buy low.

      • On March 3, 2012 at 12:41 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Keep Stacking……thank you for reading and thanks for the comment…appreciate…

    • On March 3, 2012 at 12:14 pm,
      Bobby says:

      Jerry, very well said.
      Keep stacking, you are correct. How do i know if the price is low? One way…use the income valulation apraisal method, period.

      I was once told the term “good renter” is an oxymoron, how true is that. Just look at who the majority of renters are today, bankrupt, foreclosed upon, people that just spent their last 2 years NOT paying a penny on their loans, property taxes, and hoa fees. Who do you think they will stiff next?

      • On March 3, 2012 at 12:45 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Bobby…..I appreciate your comment, thanks…AND I agree with the “good renter”
        The only good renter…..”is one who only(stiffs) owes you one months rent , and leaves
        the property without distruction….”

    • On March 3, 2012 at 2:13 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      Good “book” Jerry. Point 4 is the biggee. The Baby Boom generation floated RE from the 1990′s onward. The loss of home and stock equity, plus raided 401k’s, fewer defined-benefit pensions, and lousy government indexing of pensions/SSI from dolled-up CPI numbers, all means there’s less money to make it’s way into real property. There’s so many other issues too …estate taxes robbing value from a family with often forces the sale of a home instead of someone living in it, or lower immigration as skilled workers and retirees flee the US, or as taxes go up, or as people cannot follow a job because they cannot sell their home without walking-away, or all the other things that Rog and Nevis say in segments 3 &4, such as the inability to get a mortgage.

      Would I buy real estate today? Yes, I’d consider it if I found a principal residence in a place I wanted to live and was able to sustain myself in that area. Certain investment home locales aren’t bad, but don’t buy with the intent to rent! To keep a place rented, as you’ll know Jerry, means setting lower price point, which attracts certain types of renters. That means one’s investment home, with all it’s beautiful new berber carpets and gold-plated fixtures, won’t look so great after a year or two.

      The US as a whole has bitten on a one-way fish-hook, like Canada did in the 1970′s, or New Zealand did in the 1980′s, or others. We’ve swallowed too much debt, lost our ability to earn a national income (net trade surplus), and are now dealing with the consequences, which will almost certainly require higher income taxes, lower employment, and slower growth, which themselves extend and deepen the problem. Too bad. What a great country, and it’s going socialist.

      • On March 3, 2012 at 2:17 pm,
        John W. Robertson says:

        I should correct the last sentence:

        “…which will almost certainly require higher income taxes…”

        It’s not that it requires higher income taxes, but will RESULT in higher income taxes. I don’t agree with the Laffer curve through infinitum, but we don’t need higher taxes right now, on anyone.

      • On March 3, 2012 at 4:04 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        John,,, thanks…..glad you enjoyed point 4,,,

        MAYBE, WE COULD CO-AUTHOR A BOOK..
        .we could” ghost write” it,
        and discuss “diversification”…..
        Al would never know…
        ( AL, JUST JOKING)

        • On March 3, 2012 at 9:33 pm,
          John W. Robertson says:

          Oh, goody! I’m going to call myself, um, what’s a good name? I know, how ’bout William Shakespeare!

          • On March 4, 2012 at 4:57 am,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            …since the books will be” CO AUTHOR”.and we like long answers…
            .how about the “WINDY TWIN BOYS”

          • On March 4, 2012 at 2:10 pm,
            John W. Robertson says:

            It sure beats Heckle and Jeckle.

        • On March 4, 2012 at 5:27 pm,
          Big Al says:

          HI Jerry and John W,

          You guys make some really good points as always.

          I have thought about using some of the material on this blog in a book. If I do, trust me I will not be the only author on the front page!

          Big Al

          • On March 5, 2012 at 4:32 am,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            AL,,,I hope you do write a book, I will be the first two buy……you must sign it
            I know John will want a copy….and of course I know Irish will want a copy…
            Then ,that would mean you would be a ” three time award winning author.”…
            all kidding aside ,, you do need to write on….thanks , best…
            Your” diversified” friend….O^OTB..JERRY

          • On March 5, 2012 at 8:43 am,
            John W. Robertson says:

            Al,

            Remember us little people when you make it rich and famous.

    • On March 3, 2012 at 6:22 pm,
      castanheiro says:

      JerryO^OTB,
      Excellent writing on RE there my friend. You obviously know that sector very well. You, Marc, and Dennis have expanded my knowledge base. It all sounds so logical when you gentlemen put RE in it’s proper place and perspective. It’s a shame that people get so worked up emotionally that they go all in, head over heels, and end up buying way more house than they can afford. I guess its greed, or trying to ‘keep up with the Jones’s', or they look at their house as an investment and justify it that way. I don’t know, but I thank you all for bringing some clarity to this issue! Thanks much and try to roust Irishtony out of his mancave. He worries me when I don’t hear from him for a while. Best of health to you all.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:07 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Irish….is just waiting for us to screw up…before , he jumps out and makes us look
        like….idiots
        anyway….thanks for the feed back…..alway, like to have a chance to dust off the old
        practice.., and see if it still applies today….talk to you soon

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:31 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Mr. C,

        I have seen more sad cases of keeping up with the Jonse’s than I care to remember.

        Started back when I was working in a gas station while still in high school. I will never forget the guy who bought a big red Dodge Charger and owed more on that car than it was worth. Hi upside down status with the car would last for at least three years. He ended up hating the car and probably hating himself for ever buying it.

        Boy put that in today’s environment and the level of sadness becomes logarithmic.

        Big Al

        • On March 4, 2012 at 7:03 pm,
          Marc says:

          Boy Big Al,
          That last sentence sums it up pretty damn well!
          Marc

        • On March 4, 2012 at 8:45 pm,
          castanheiro says:

          Big Al,
          Yes sir. So true. And I’m subject to the same temptations as anyone. Just have to keep myself anchored to reason and common sense, and not get emotional. Thank God, I’ve got a little blond lady too, who is very disciplined and rational. She’s a blessing, and she’s put up with my craziness for 27 years. Best to you!

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:24 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Mr. In the Box,

      As always, a great comment!

      Big Al

  13. On March 3, 2012 at 10:59 am,
    Bruce in Ottawa Ontario says:

    Good show Al…

    If you can rent cheaper than buying…why buy into a falling market?…the sign that things are turning around will come when the listing to sales ratio starts to shrink in any given location and price level that you are considering…it’s the ol’ supply and demand equation…when you start to see the foreclosures dry up on the market and disappear…that is another signal to wait for…until then…if it makes better sense to rent than buy until things start to turn around…keep your powder dry in gold and silver…in my humble opinion.

    By the way:

    Check out the Andrew Maguire interview on KWN…he says the PAGE (Pan Asian Gold Exchange) has been cancelled…but there is another exhcange coming that will start out with Silver…the contracts will be issued against actual physical bars with serial numbers issued…number of contracts aresupposed to be matched exactly…no excess paper issued…his other comments on what happened in this last take down, are good also.

    http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2012/3/2_Andrew_Maguire.html

    • On March 3, 2012 at 12:17 pm,
      Bobby says:

      Bruce, correct, why catch a falling knife. Besides nobody really knows the shadow inventory of foreclosed homes owned by the banks or by people waiting years for they bank to foreclose.

      • On March 3, 2012 at 4:07 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Bruce….Bobby…I.agree with you….

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:33 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Thanks Bruce,

      I will listen as I did not know that this had been canceled.

      Best,

      Big Al

  14. On March 3, 2012 at 11:05 am,
    Benb says:

    Marc, thanks for saying. If you couldnt tell Im kinda passionate about this stuff. I really see whats going on as a crime to pensioners and the theft of our young peoples future. But the info is out there if they will just look for it. I remember the conclusion of a gentlman that wrote a piece about the faciasts of the 30s and 40s. The conclusion was that they got away with it all because people refuse to think. Same as the capatilists, refuse to think. Herbert o yardly broke the japanese code in the 30s. Sent to china by the american gov. he wrote a poker book about it with just a mention about breaking the code. The book is “the education of a poker player”
    Thats proof the americans knew the japanese attack was coming.
    Anyway,about people not listening is true. I recommended to 2 investers that had combined 250k in a company that had/has no prmits. I suggested First Majestic at about $4.50 a share. All said and done they could have made over 1 million. When I mentioned it to them they said “we dont think that way” OK I gave up.
    People REFUSE to think. They are leary of physical, but I did get maybe a dozen people buying silver but some have lost heart from volitility.
    Anyway, I think the best we can do is protect ourselves and hopefully we are in a position to help others should the need arise.
    Personally I will continue with the argument to remove the silver from the market.
    I tried for years with christians to follow the teachings,I have 2 nefews that are pastors. But thats a forlon hope so I gave up on that too. I even phoned in to the televised christen shows and not a chance will they think I actually had better luck with the sihks,hindus,budists and moslems Im in contact with(not much tho). Anyway your right people dont listen.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:36 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hi benb,

      You have to admit that the folks on the great site listen and comment appropriately!

      I am very grateful for that because I learn so much!

      Big Al

  15. On March 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm,
    ben b says:

    Marc Faber: US ‘Financial Mess’ Will Force Government to Take Your Gold
    Economist Marc Faber, publisher of the Gloom, Boom and Doom report, says the government will seize privately held gold, even as he continues to buy physical gold himself.

    “I prefer to play the commodity space by owning physical gold,” Faber tells Chiefsworld. “If I were an American, I would store it outside the U.S., because in the U.S., it is not completely unlikely that they will eventually take it away.”

    “Like in 1933, gold will be purchased back by the government” because eventually the financial mess will be so bad that gold prices “will go ballistic, and the government will take away something from a minority, and not many people own gold.”

    This story was posted on the moneynews.com
    The other side of a position, who can be sure of anything?

    • On March 3, 2012 at 12:51 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      ben b…..the govt…may try….but, there will not be 100% participation…..
      just as it was not 100% in 1933….

      • On March 3, 2012 at 12:59 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        ps….this information was brought up several months ago…..but, like the 1933 act,
        there was more respect for the govt….today there is a lack of respect for
        the 535 members wanting to control everyone , while taking advantage of their position.
        Another point, of the discussion, was the thought of investing in collector coins,,,,
        which were not called back…., this might be part of a so called” diversification”
        of investment….

        • On March 3, 2012 at 1:01 pm,
          Jerry O^OTB says:

          ps….great post…enjoyed reading…..

          • On March 4, 2012 at 5:40 pm,
            Big Al says:

            Good point Mr. In the Box,

            I will say that the Little Blond Lady and I do have some coins.

            Big Al

          • On March 5, 2012 at 4:38 am,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            Al,,have you become a coin collector….If so, we should bring up this topic
            for discussion….on how to protect your self in the coming days…with
            collector coins….I know there are some others on the site which collect
            or would like to collect…thanks…your “diversified” friend…O^OTB JER.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:39 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI ben b,

      I don’t really agree with Mr. Faber on this one.

      Big Al

      • On March 5, 2012 at 9:41 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        ditto….al…

  16. On March 3, 2012 at 1:18 pm,
    scott hamilton says:

    does anyone have an opinion of investing in houses to rent in places like richland wa. , or joplin missourri ??? love to all S

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:41 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Yes, and I will ask my friend Mike who has rental properties in Richland to help me out with a segment on this question tomorrow (Monday).

      Big Al

  17. On March 3, 2012 at 2:01 pm,
    John says:

    Al,
    You’re a Catholic and you don’t think the government forcing Catholic hospitals to pay for abortions is important??????? Murdering the unborn is damn important!!!!! May God have mercy on you for saying something like that!!!!!!

    • On March 3, 2012 at 3:43 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI John,

      I did not state my point clearly, and for that I am sorry.

      My point is that the country is collapsing and I think that this is particularly important. I personally am a strong right to lifer. The majority of the country is not and the battle I choose to pick at this moment in time is keeping the country from collapsing.

      The abortion argument is certainly important but the politicians need to concentrate the majority of their efforts on saving the country.

      Best to you and thank you for your comment.

      Big Al

  18. On March 3, 2012 at 3:50 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    Mr. Korelin.

    It seems the idea of cuts to entitlements is wavering, and it should. I wish everyone would focus on the fact that since the US went totally off the gold standard, all debt instruments issued by the government to get to use every dollar it spends is an odieus debt (In international law, odious debt is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable – wikipedia).

    The money is created out of thin air, why should we be bound to pay interest on it, let alone the fact that is comes into existence out of the authority granted to the government. All the austerity talk is diversion, the problem is the process of currency issuance. Austrian economics is not a solution, it is the last stronghold of the elite.

    Truth shall make us free. Franklin knew that.

    A Modest Enquiry into the Nature and Necessity of a Paper-Currency by Benjamin Franklin (1729)

    • On March 3, 2012 at 5:19 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      HEY….didn’t Ben Franklin have a printing press?
      All kidding aside….Ben did print some of the first american colonial notes.* paper money
      called colonial currency…..on each note was a warning, that if you
      got caught” printing your own notes….you would be hung….”
      sounds like a possible solution of ending the fed…

    • On March 3, 2012 at 5:43 pm,
      Keep Stacking says:

      When you use a credit card, you are also creating money out of thin air. Do you mean that you don’t have to pay it back or pay any interest on it?

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:43 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Yeh, that would be an interesting thing to try!

        Big Al

    • On March 4, 2012 at 4:09 pm,
      Matthew says:

      You are right that the government should not have to pay interest on paper that it could create out of thin air itself, but you fail to address the supply problem. You seem to think that the government is somehow more trustworthy than the banks that own it. Unbacked currency will ALWAYS ultimately be abused. Real money equals real wealth; you can’t print wealth! You grow it or mine it. Labor should be compensated with something of REAL value, not imaginary value. Money should be the result of someone else’s labor, gold and silver are. Further, if you value freedom, the state should have almost no role in any monetary system. Currency has value based on the financial health, military might, and/or the credit rating of the issuer. Holders of currency are obviously exposed to counterparty risk. Money, on the other hand, has value in and of itself. Can paper be money? Can a ticket from the dry cleaners be a shirt? NO.
      Note that for over 100 years, presidents were not put on the coinage. There was no paper currency until the civil war.
      Austrian economics is sound. It IS the solution. The “last stronghold of the elite” is the fact that they are always 10 steps ahead of 99+% of the population. They are masters at gaining control of whatever system or institution that the sheeple demand be put in place, but don’t let this fact fool you. The last thing they want is a system based on cooperation NOT coercion. They do not want to pay their sucker peasants in gold and silver when they can just give them worthless, infinite paper.
      Austerity is not a diversion, but it should be equally directed at the big banks. Just because they are shifting the entire burden onto the people does not mean that the people do not share in the responsibility for the problems.
      Thanks to money out of thin air, there is hardly an asset that cannot be manipulated for political gain. The bankers own the world, yet you would like to extend to them the universe.
      I’m just curious, if you owned a printing press, how long would it take YOU to buy up anything and everything you desire?
      The truth shall indeed make you free.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 7:39 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Evening Matthew,

        If I owned the printing press, I would not buy anything just for myself. I would hope that you believe that. I am an idealistic old guy who would much rather become a better golfer because that is much more important to me than material possessions.

        Of course Austrian economics is sound! It is the only system that will work indefinitely. I really believe that as I assume most folks on this site do.

        Thank you for your comments, my friend,

        Big Al

        • On March 4, 2012 at 8:01 pm,
          Matthew says:

          Hi Al,
          I do believe that you would not abuse the printing press. The post was in response to the comments by missivedutexas above.
          Best,
          Matthew

        • On March 5, 2012 at 8:51 am,
          John W. Robertson says:

          I think the reason people “fear” Austrian Economics is because of who promotes it…us gold bugs, or certain Ron Paulers, and therefore. Too bad. Ron Paul wasn’t even born when Austrian theory was promulgated. I think the key here is that AE is, by one definition, the economics of a free society. What other kind would someone want??

        • On March 5, 2012 at 9:48 am,
          Jerry O^OTB says:

          IF YOU OWNED A PRINTING PRESS…..(AL) THEY WOULD CALL YOU..
          “UNCLE BEN..AL JR..” ….but , then they would think you were a terrorist….

      • On March 7, 2012 at 4:03 am,
        James B - Canada says:

        Mathew, I know that you are a big supporter of Ron Paul. I like him re: saving the American dollar from imploding but regarding foreign policy he is a HYPOCRITE!.

        Ron Paul has called Gaza a concentration camp and that Israel created Hamas and other foolish things.

        But I have not heard a word from him regarding the massacres of Homs by the govt of Syria. Is it because he is on a muslim payroll as is George Galloway and Jimmy Carter and others?

    • On March 4, 2012 at 5:43 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Great point missivedutexas!

      Thanks,

      Big Al

  19. On March 3, 2012 at 5:39 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    The coinage laws in place still call for that I believe. But if they won`t go after Corzine,…

    • On March 4, 2012 at 7:40 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Your are absolutely correct, missivedutexas, they will not go after Mr. Corzine.

      Would they go after Big Al if I got behind in my taxes? You bet they would! \

      Kind of a double standard isn’t it!

      Big Al

  20. On March 3, 2012 at 7:43 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    Keep Stacking. If I had the power and authority to create it myself legally and force acceptance for payment of all public and private debt, as any sovereign country does, I would have no need for a credit card.

    Selah!

    • On March 4, 2012 at 4:49 am,
      Keep Stacking says:

      Sir,
      You do have the power aand authority to create money yourself. Everytime you use a credit card. This creates digital money. And you use it for payment of your public and private debt. Where do you think the money comes from?? Best to you.

  21. On March 3, 2012 at 8:59 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    And just to demonstrate this knowledge was known by a lot of Americans:

    The information came to the knowledge of the English Bankers, and held their attention. They immediately took the necessary steps to have the British Parliament to pass a law that prohibited the Colonies from using their scrip money, and then ordered them to use only the gold and silver money that was provided in sufficient quantity by the English bankers. Then began in America the plague of debt-money, which has never since brought so many curses to the American people.

    http://www.planetization.org/prosperity.htm

    Lincoln saved the union, and paid for it.

    The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -Abraham Lincoln

    Did you know that documents recently revealed the secessionists were actually financed by London Bankers?

    http://american_almanac.tripod.com/lincoln3.htm

    This country will always be the prize international financiers fancy. And if we don`t wake up soon, the noble experiment of self-government will end live on TV with the elite sipping cocktails and hi-fiving each other over their success.

  22. On March 4, 2012 at 3:19 am,
    ConservativeCanuck says:

    The U.S. has a reputation as being at least a (formerly) low tax jurisdiction which is no longer true if it was even in the past 20 years.

    Doesn’t “social security” withdraw roughly 12% of American’s “before tax” income prior to being subject to income tax?

    in a nation with a 35-40% corporate tax rate, …and what room is left (on the personal level) also has to cover the individual choice (for now) of personal health insurance which costs? $ 250-300/mth for a healthy working adult?

    …I would only be guessing as a Canadian, but there are surely better ways to have a fair, pro-growth, comprehensive tax code than one which is roughly 67000 (up from roughly 44000 in 2000) pages rife with what I assume are subsidies, exceptions, deductions, credits and cronyism.

    If Americans who are having their homes foreclosed on were allowed to keep the equity they have in their homes upon liquidation, then there would be fewer homeless Americans living in tent cities… ie. an American who has 100k equity in a home worth 200k, then the banks should be reimbursing that individual for the 100k equity upon sale…this would drastically reduce the fire-sale on homes and encourage banks to either sell homes at fair value, work out deals with the home-mortgage owners based upon their circumstances, or write down the debt…as well as reducing the incurring dependency on public social and economic programs.

    That’s roughly how it works in Canada from my understanding, regarding home equity foreclosure.

    ..I welcome anyone to correct any errors I may have made based on my current information.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 2:16 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      CC,

      There is something called a Homestead Provision (or some other moniker depending upon the state) which does protect some level of homeowner equity in foreclosure. In Arizona, it’s the first $150,000. In Texas, it’s $1,000,000! That’s one reason a lot of business owners own a home in Texas. Even if they go bankrupt, they get to keep their mansion!

      There’s too many special interest groups to allow a flat tax. Too bad. If the US dropped all personal income taxes in favor of a 10 – 15% flat tax, and dropped corp tax rates to 15%, the country would be booming this time next year.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 7:42 pm,
        Big Al says:

        Okay John W,

        You are smarter than I thought!

        Big Al

        P.S. I realized that you were really bright when you told me you moved down to Phoenix!

        • On March 5, 2012 at 8:55 am,
          John W. Robertson says:

          “bright”? “Phoenix”? You making puns again?

  23. On March 4, 2012 at 6:08 am,
    Dennis O'Neil says:

    Every financial instrument’s value is derived from a commodity.
    The commodity the source of the value….what eventually is sought to be owned and/or controlled by the instrument has to exist and must be desired for the instrument to have any value. Think of a bank note being redeemable for gold.
    The bank note …..consisting of paper and ink…..is not what is desired to be possessed it is what it is redeemable for that is sought after……the gold. Consider a coat check at a restaurant…..you check your coat and are handed a claim check….after your dinner you present the claim check only to find out the restaurant has delivered your coat to another customer…the claim check has no value except evidence of the fraud you are now a victim of….the claim check cannot provide you wooly warmth from the cold elements the restaurant sends you out into after you loudly complain foul. What is my point…..my point is like the bible starts “In the beginning” all banks must source their wealth from commodities. Commodities are the things we want because we need them to live. The paper banks exchange only represent claims on what the bank customers truly want. The mastery of the banks is that they have Madison Avenued most….conditioned the masses to believe it was a bank note or claim check they covet. We have come a long way from Humphrey Bogart in 1948′s “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.” Watch the first few minutes http://www.myspace.com/video/humphrey-bo… (or the whole thing it is a great flick). In the first scene notice how director John Huston focuses on the silver coin. Note how many goods and services Bogart is allowed to purchase with just one unit of a true commodity medium of exchange. It is as if John Huston was telling/warning us. Note in the movie how manly men did manly things to endeavor to find then mine gold. They found victory but were ultimately unsuccessful. For something to have significant value it must be scarce….difficult to find and/or produce.

    Value is not price. The value of a bank note is not found in the denomination. The value of a bank note is what it commands delivery of. And when with nominal effort we produce too many bank notes which in turn chase too few goods the bank notes will necessarily command very little.

    Think of a poker game in which you exchange currency for chips. As you play a hand an armed robber breaks into your parlor and steals away with the cash box. You sit at the table and all realize the chips are now redeemable for nothing.

    Today we live in a poker game where our chips are redeemable for nothing….except for some very odd reason we continue to play.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm,
      Big Al says:

      We don’t need no stinking badges!

      Big Al

      P.S. I will be speaking at the Chicago Investment Conference on April 27 and 28th. Common on down and let’s have a drink!

  24. On March 4, 2012 at 9:07 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    @Keep Stacking – In financial terms, that is called a loan. I`ll grant you the CC companies and banks have the power to create money as long as they can find someone to pick the other side of the transaction, a debt instrument carrying fees and-or interest. That is of course part of the problem. See “money as debt” if my comments aren`t clear to you.

  25. On March 4, 2012 at 9:13 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    @Dennis O’Neil – Money is like any other commodity with an supply and demand relationship.

    Question: If all US taxing agencies demanded payment in gold or silver, how much demand would there be for Federal Reserve Notes?

    I would suggest the answer to be: no demand whatsoever. Hence the root of all demand for Federal Reserve Notes is the requirement to pay taxes with such vehicule.

    Out of nothing, demande is created. No wonder they think they`re gods…

    • On March 4, 2012 at 11:37 am,
      Dennis O'Neil says:

      The tender laws create the demand.

      Allow me to summarize my above post.

      When you want what you need.
      You want what you need.
      You do not a a coupon redeemable for what you need.

      I understand your point.
      If the tender laws applied to precious metals then the State’s coercize powers would simply cause us to loath the need to own and tender precious metals.
      However you cannot just flip and argument like that without asking why is it the way it is now. Wha for centuries have precious meatals been utilized as money. Do you remember Murray Rothbard’ s “What has Government done to our Money?”….. a classic book. Not a word wasted! So much communicated in a few pages.

      One point made is precious metals are used as money becuase the annual production tends to track neatly with an ideal economies gowth. Certainly high rates of inflation may be concentrated in areas immediatley surrounding new discovery. However, when dispersed over a large geographic area that new dicovery offsets retiring production elsewhere. Toal production tends to grow commencerate with desired growth in other production.

      The reason government do not like metals and would not volutarily do what you question poses is they cannot create gold and silver out of thin air with a key stroke.
      Since that would restrain their ambitions….since that would not allow them to cast favors upon supporters the idea would stall without any chance of support except from those with high ethics. Now you know why Ron Paul is so lonely on the Hill.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 7:49 pm,
        Big Al says:

        He may be somewhat lonely on the Hill Mr. O’Neil but he is the only one with the guts to tell it like it is. By the way, he came in a very strong second in my state!

        Big Al

    • On March 4, 2012 at 7:47 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Yes sir, “out of nothing is created”!

      Wow, that is absolutely terrifying!

      Big Al

  26. On March 4, 2012 at 10:16 am,
    Clay says:

    The Coyote, Cow and little Bird.

    One time a little baby bird who lived in a nest high up in a tree was happy and content his parents would always take care of him. One night in the latest of summer when his parents were off searching for food but were unable to get back before dark, it was very cold. The little bird got colder and colder all night and was worried sick his parents would not return. Just before dawn when it was freezing the little bird fell out of his nest and onto the ground. Little bird was shaken but not hurt, sat up and realized how cold it was so he began to chirp over and over again.

    Not far away a cow heard the little birds cries and so walked over the the little bird to investigate. The cow looked down at the cold little bird and saw how distressed the bird was. The cow turned around, lifted its tail and let go a big hot steaming pile of dung right onto the little bird and then walked away.

    The little bird stuck his head up out of the dung and realized how much warmer he was, but then realized the terrible smell and so again began to chirp, chirp chirp complaining about the dung.

    Not far away a Coyote heard the chirping and so ran over to investigate what it was. Upon finding the little bird in the cow dung chirping and chirping, he reached down to pull the poor little bird out the the dung. The little bird thought how wonderful I am saved, but once the coyote had lifted the little bird all the way up he opened his mouth wide and swallowed the little bird down in one gulp.

    The creatures and animals in the area pondered what had happened. Some believed that when a person is neck deep in shit, it is better to keep their mouth shut. But the real moral is, while some people who throw shit on you are only trying to help, others who pull you out of shit only want to hurt you.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 2:20 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      Well, I must say, the metaphors are flinging this week! Loved it, Clay.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 2:40 pm,
        Clay says:

        John: I got the moral or metaphor wrong actually. The moral of the story is: While some people who throw shit at you are only trying to help, while others who pull you out of shit are really trying to hurt, the real moral is when a person is up to their neck in shit it is best to keep their mouth shut.

      • On March 4, 2012 at 5:48 pm,
        ConservativeCanuck says:

        Thank you John, now I’m a little more informed.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 7:50 pm,
      Big Al says:

      HI Clay,

      Great story!

      Big Al

  27. On March 4, 2012 at 10:29 am,
    Clay says:

    The above is an old Cowboy proverb, a moral to remind people that when someone extends help it might not be appreciated, and when expected help arrives it might be disastrous. This is the situation a majority of people are in throughout the world, Greece, US, France, Italy and so many places. Governments and Banks who appear to be extending a paw to pull people out of very stinky situation may only be doing so to steal their gold and resources.

    There are many examples, but it is always better to keep ones mouth shut at all times and only open it when absolutely necessary. In my lifetime I know one thing to be true but still I have to regretfully learn over and over again, and that is I rarely get into trouble for not saying something, but often find trouble for something I did say.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 4:56 pm,
      castanheiro says:

      Hi Clay,
      I loved it, and I’m with you on the moral. Yep, my mouth has more than once gotten me in trouble. I’m still learning with you.
      Best

  28. On March 4, 2012 at 2:54 pm,
    irishtony says:

    CLAY……….LOVED IT………..Wont say anything else in case i drop my self in the dung.

  29. On March 4, 2012 at 2:57 pm,
    irishtony says:

    P.S. To all you lovely people, i enjoyed all your words. GOOD HEALTH TO YOU ALL.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 4:58 pm,
      castanheiro says:

      Hello Irishtony,
      Good to hear from you.
      Best to you and all.

    • On March 5, 2012 at 9:00 am,
      John W. Robertson says:

      Hey Irish…green side up…

  30. On March 4, 2012 at 3:13 pm,
    irishtony says:

    Interesting piece over at King World News…FITZWILSON. In my opinion mankind will be in the shit, until the day we learn from history.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 4:41 pm,
      Marc says:

      Mr. Irishtony,
      Yep, a very short and strong “kick in the ass” to where we are headed – unless we can change our course in due time…..sorry, but that course is pretty much “set in stone’.
      All the best – Mr. Irish
      Marc

    • On March 5, 2012 at 5:38 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      IRISH…..fitzwilson piece…..good info….for anyone looking at a short answer
      to our existing history….and looking forward….and as we have mentioned
      before….we are like Rome….in all ways…we are not headed in that direction
      we are there now….problem is no one sees it , because , in order to see it
      would require some study…and the sheeple are living it, and as sheep will
      follow the herder….(govt)

    • On March 5, 2012 at 9:25 am,
      Clay says:

      irishtony: You know that article about Rome and the US by Fitzwilson (Roman Empire, and the power of money) had me thinking all night, even in my dreams.

      People don’t really change very much but technology does. In 400 AD information and knowledge traveled slow, foot, horse or boat. When a message was received after many days or weeks of delivery, the deliberation for response was very short perhaps hours. Today messages travel instantly while responses take a few minutes. Conversations or deliberations in 400 AD over distances were incredibly slow, today such things are done in real time as if the parties were all in same room just like we on this page are doing.

      Communication is just one of the many differences between Rome and the US and yet people have not changed that much. Based on these presumed facts between the human similarities and technological differences , it is fair to predict that the time it took for Rome to go through the many machinations of decline will occur to the US at an extremely accelerated rate due to the shortened time frame it takes. It is possible that what took Rome a year to experience might only take the US a day or less. Accelerated changes in the US are only governed by the ability of people to assimilate and adapt. While some find it futile to resist the changes government impose on us, we must realize that Government also is finding it futile to resist the accelerated changes.

      While changes in people are slow it is many times faster than any change in government. Therefore in a contest in who shall decide the final outcome, the people or the government, the government has no chance. The very same can be applied to the Main Stream Media, banks, Fed or power elite in Washington. They can’t win by winning, they can only win by losing. Resistance for them is truly futile.

      • On March 5, 2012 at 11:46 am,
        irishtony says:

        CLAY……..Very well put, the question is will the people get-it, before its too late, sadly i doubt it.

  31. On March 4, 2012 at 4:37 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    Anyone seen “money as debt” or “The money Master” around here?

    @Dennis O’Neil – You asked “why is it the way it is now”, These movies will show you why and how. And it seems to me that Nathan Rothchild was not the first person to realize the power of controlling the vehicule required to pay taxes. Even Jesus got hold of the idea and eventually beat the money changers with a wip. Note that this event is followed by the first mention of plotting to kill him.

    Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes her laws. – Mayer Amschel Rothschild

    • On March 5, 2012 at 11:55 am,
      irishtony says:

      MISSIVEDUTEXAS HELLO. yes i read the series last year, i did bring The Money Masters up a few times on this site, i am not sure how many read it then, i would recommend people read it, as it is a real eye opener. thanks for bringing it up again/

      • On March 6, 2012 at 5:37 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        Irish….could you send me your copy…..Al, said he would pick up the tab…

  32. On March 4, 2012 at 6:19 pm,
    benb says:

    @miss.
    Yes ive seen the money masters. excellent work on bill schills part. I mentioned to al he would be a good guest, Al said he would see what he could do. I have recommended that to many people. I find that young people are interested.

    • On March 4, 2012 at 7:53 pm,
      Big Al says:

      Hello all of you great people,

      Thank you so much for your great insights. I am becoming wiser every single day.

      God bless you all.

      I am off to bed to fight the good fight again tomorrow!

      Big Al

  33. On March 5, 2012 at 4:39 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    Mr. Al.

    You say: “Of course Austrian economics is sound! It is the only system that will work indefinitely.”

    That would be nice. However, no matter what system is in place, when cronies take control and can prevent the guilty of criminal acts from even being prosecuted, the system matters not (Corzine…)

    BTW, just like Keynisian economics, Austrian economics is theory. It has never demonstrated its propositions to be law.

    Raw Materials Economics demonstrates it laws with over 100 years of historical data. Now, do you know of any proposed system that supports its laws with 100 years of data?

    Y`all have a great week.

    • On March 5, 2012 at 5:17 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      missivedutexas……It is 5 am…in washington state…..
      Big AL…is still asleep….
      for such a complex question this early in the morning….
      I MUST REFER YOU TO IRISH….he is much more atuned to these complex
      question of theory and history at this hour….besides it is after noon his time….

      • On March 5, 2012 at 11:59 am,
        irishtony says:

        Jerry…no good referring anybody to me……..I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NOTHING……….signed..the thick mick.

    • On March 5, 2012 at 9:05 am,
      Matthew says:

      First, please tell us how the criminal acts of someone like Corzine have anything to do with the monetary system directly. If you do want to look at indirect factors, it should be obvious to you that paper money supports corruption like nothing else. Do you really think, for instance, that bailouts would happen on the scale they do today if they had to be funded with gold? The current state of ignorance and apathy is directly due to cheap and easy money. It has allowed for the easy takeover of education, the media, regulatory bodies, and all of the legislative process. The current system stands solely on the cultivated ignorance of the masses. It is ridiculous to suggest that all of this would change if only the Treasury could print money. You said yourself that “…no matter what system is in place, when cronies take control…” That’s right, WHEN cronies take control -not IF. Yet you refuse to see that this is one of the most important reasons for gold. As long as paper is used as money, interest rates and therefore all prices, will be subject to the whims of powerful men. Value will remain difficult to ascertain based on nominal prices. These distorted signals will perpetuate the poor decisions we see today that result in the misallocation of capital.
      Can you spell out what it is that you find unsound about the Austrian School? Is it the voluntary coming together of two parties to choose to make a deal based on mutually beneficial terms? Is it that interest rates should reflect both the supply of, and demand for, deposits? Is it unsound to stop the banks from loaning what they don’t have?
      If it’s unsound, why was it that only “Austrians” saw clearly what was inevitable in the housing boom? Ron Paul was warning of the outcome in 2002! Why are the best investors Austrian?
      By the way, the term “Austrian School” was first used well over 100 years ago.

      • On March 5, 2012 at 10:19 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        great post ….

      • On March 5, 2012 at 10:40 am,
        castanheiro says:

        Matthew,
        I agree with Jerry O^OTB. Excellent post and reasoning is impeccable.
        Thank you!

  34. On March 5, 2012 at 6:03 am,
    Tex says:
    • On March 5, 2012 at 10:20 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      thanks….

  35. On March 5, 2012 at 9:30 am,
    irishtony says:

    THANKS TEX.

  36. On March 5, 2012 at 12:40 pm,
    Stephan B. Feibish says:

    Notes:
    in general, residential real estate is a consumption item, not an investment.

    Once a bubble is pricked, it takes a long time for prices to take off.
    So there are probably better places to invest then residential real estate.

    My two cents.

    • On March 5, 2012 at 12:43 pm,
      Bobby says:

      S B F, exactly correct. If you want to deversify, buy 40% gold, 40% silver, 20% Platinum.

      • On March 5, 2012 at 1:37 pm,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        bobby….platinum has made a big run since dec..
        what do you think about the number going forward…
        it is closer to 1 to 1 ratio to gold….

        • On March 6, 2012 at 5:06 am,
          Bobby says:

          Jerrry, good stuff, I dont have enough, but I doubt I will add any myself.

          • On March 6, 2012 at 5:44 am,
            Jerry O^OTB says:

            I agree with you ,,,I think the opportunity to purchase this time was DEC.
            I just wanted to bounce that thought off of you …..since, there are very
            few people who seem to follow platinum…
            I like it….but, it is not for everyone….long term if gold goes to $12,000,
            what would that do to platinum….car mufflers and catalithic converter,
            would be on every theives hit list….

    • On March 5, 2012 at 1:01 pm,
      Marc says:

      Hang on there – SBF…How in the world is investment residential RE a “consumption” item.
      Only if you buy to lay vacant or occupy every once in a while. Some morons do that. You can get a nice little income stream going in residential RE. And if properly managed, a good goin business.
      Marc

      • On March 6, 2012 at 12:04 pm,
        Stephan B. Feibish says:

        Your primary and vacation homes are consumption items.

        And the aging of America is a headwind.

  37. On March 5, 2012 at 12:41 pm,
    Bobby says:

    GET YOUR RED HOT (125%) LOANS HERE:

    http://usawatchdog.com/subprime-to-the-rescue/

    • On March 5, 2012 at 1:47 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      Bobby…..they should call those HARP2 LOANS…..HARPOON LOANS…,
      bring in those blubber buyer, with the barnical on there backs,
      barnical from being under water for to long…
      blubber from the over weight of indebtedness…they will still be in…

      • On March 6, 2012 at 5:07 am,
        Bobby says:

        Jerry, good analysis!

        • On March 6, 2012 at 5:46 am,
          Jerry O^OTB says:

          by the way ,,,thanks for the post…that was great reading….

  38. On March 5, 2012 at 4:37 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    @Matthew – “…how the criminal acts of someone like Corzine have anything to do with the monetary system directly…” You miss the point. Jefferson said it best, hope that strikes a cord with you:

    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. – Thomas Jefferson – 3rd president of US (1743 – 1826)

    To sum it up, corruption of the highest degree, where the highest law of the land does not matter anymore, and crimes and injustices go unpunished. Corzine being only a symptom. Bailouts are ONLY possible when cronies have taken control.

    The takeover of education, media etc. is also only a symptom.

    “Yet you refuse to see that this is one of the most important reasons for gold….”

    Where did I say anything that would make think “I refuse”? At some point through this learning process, I realized that it is not the medium used as currency that is important, but rather who controls it. And I believe people would agree that central banks control most of the gold, otherwise, how could they manipulate its price, as evidenced by the GATA group.

    “Can you spell out what it is that you find unsound about the Austrian School?”

    1 – At its core, it proposes gold for money. Since that is controled by the elite, we`re still out of luck.
    2 – Human activity would disapear were it not for our raw material production. I therefore propose to value all raw material production, not just gold digging.
    3 – Austrian economics ignores the effect of population growth. Demography is, in my opinion, the root from which all forecasts, absent crony capitalism, find there credibility. What happens when gold discoveries do not equal in percentage the growth in population, are we just going to stop trading? The last hundred years of population may be the main reason governments went off the gold standards.

    Anyway, you sound fairly irritated by my positions. I obviously have nothing to gain from this. My goal here is to share what I find in the hope that people will realize that liberty and individuality can only strive in a just society. If a minority controls the money supply, we shall gradually see those reduced and eventually, they will be gone.

    @Jerry O^OTB – I`m sure you`ve heard this before:

    “Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.” – Benjamin Franklin

    • On March 5, 2012 at 7:23 pm,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      missivedutexas…..yes, my grandmother loved this verse…by ben.f.
      and my mother use to say it all the time when I was a kid…
      I guess she was trying to inspire me to get up and deliver the papers at 4:00 am.
      each morning…

    • On March 5, 2012 at 7:38 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Just a few final observations:
      On the 18th, you said: “but let`s be frank, gold and silver will be confiscated by the governments if it ever makes it as a national currency again.” So you recognize that governments will take whatever they feel threatens their power, but would still like to see the Treasury in charge of the money. Your wish for the eradication of corruption is a utopian delusion. Real money is the foundation of individual liberty and the “just society” you mentioned. It is due to corruption ALONE that makes real money a permanent MUST. Why do you think the planners of the West had to steal it from their people? That’s right, control. Private, real money undermines control.

      Next, you stated: “…central banks control most of the gold, otherwise, how could they manipulate its price…”? Wrong. The central banks do not have most of the gold. Indian women by themselves have more than all the central banks put together. The banks manipulate -but cannot control- the price using mountains of paper gold contracts.
      Regarding population growth, gold production has increased at a rate that has been remarkably correlated. If peak gold is near and this correlation breaks down, so what? Those who’ve been smart enough to save the proper assets for their future should not have them stolen because others didn’t plan. The raw materials you’re so fond of will become more scarce as well, relative to population growth. The masses would be much better served if their savings rise in value along with the cost of living. Arbitrarily increasing the money supply will not make resources more plentiful. In fact, it does just the opposite. The extraordinary excess that so many had become accustomed to, was made possible only by cheap and easy money with no tether to reality. Thanks to artificially low interest rates and money out of thin air, hundreds of millions of people were able to gang-up on our future and destroy it by consuming it today. Most people need a leash for their own protection. The best leash is still gold.
      It’s too bad that you “obviously have nothing to gain from this.” Hopefully those who are new to the subject won’t be similarly led astray.

      “You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and that’s good enough.” Dr. Edwin Vierra

  39. On March 5, 2012 at 8:45 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    “Your wish for the eradication of corruption is a utopian delusion.”

    I`m not fool hearted enough to believe corruption will ever be eradicate. We certainly have to stand watch to keep it to a minimum.

    “But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful in your States as well as in the Federal Government.” — Andrew Jackson, Farewell Address, March 4, 1837 – who killed the second central bank of the US

    Indian women do not control governments and military forces.

    To find out who owns the most gold in the world, we referred to data from the International Monetary Fund’s International Financial Statistics Report.

    http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/who-owns-worlds-gold/2491

    “Most people need a leash for their own protection. ”

    So much for liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I believe governments need a leash, not the people.

    “ In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.” Thomas Jefferson

    “Hopefully those who are new to the subject won’t be similarly led astray.”

    Wow, should I start worshipping at your feet, sounds like you are truth, light and life. Tell you what, get crucified and resurrected three days later and start going through walls and I may consider it. Until then, I hope you`ll realize a lot of us are simply disciplined learners.

    Humbly yours from Texas

  40. On March 5, 2012 at 9:22 pm,
    Matthew says:

    World Gold Council’s Managing Director for Investment, Marcus Grubb, says: “Of all the gold, about 166,000 tonnes, Indian jewelry is estimated to be about 18,000 tonnes.” The U.S. has 8,133 tons.

    “Indian women do not control governments and military forces.” -What does this have to do with anything?

    “My goal here is to share what I find in the hope that people will realize that liberty and individuality can only strive in a just society.” = Utopian

    “So much for liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” -Don’t know what a metaphor is?

    @Matthew – “…how the criminal acts of someone like Corzine have anything to do with the monetary system directly…” You miss the point.” — I’m still waiting for you to make the point I’ve supposedly missed.

    In all your posts from the 18th to today, you still have not made a coherent case for your unsound money. That is my focus, yet you are all over the map pointing to quotes I agree with, and even a few accurate facts. But you still haven’t said: “Fraudulent, worthless, centrally controlled money is better because…”

    Are you a collectivist or not? Try taking the test:
    http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedom.cfm?fuseaction=creed

    Still hoping others aren’t similarly lead astray.

  41. On March 5, 2012 at 9:33 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    Matthew – Collectivist? Me? All over the map? Me?

    “In all your posts from the 18th to today, you still have not made a coherent case for your unsound money.”

    Kind of hard to stir anyone when they`ve obviously painted themselves in a corner. Austrian Economics in the right corner, unsound money in one of the other three corners, we just don`t know which one.

    The fraud is to charge interest on the medium assigned by governments to pay taxes, No one should have to pay interests or fees, directly or indirectly, on top of paying taxes.

    Ho, and buy the way, do you get that consumerisme also stems from this fraudulent approach to “economics”?

    Anyway, I’ll go back to my garden and pray for decend rain this summer, life still requires to put food on the table.

    • On March 5, 2012 at 10:01 pm,
      Matthew says:

      “The fraud is to charge interest on the medium assigned by governments to pay taxes, No one should have to pay interests or fees, directly or indirectly, on top of paying taxes.”
      This is true, but centrally controlled paper money is a MUCH bigger threat and fraud. Only a collectivist utopian would trust a central authority to manage this power honestly and for the benefit of the people.

      “Ho, and buy the way, do you get that consumerisme also stems from this fraudulent approach to “economics”? –This is exactly what I meant by “all over the map”!

      So why monopoly money…? [No one should have a monopoly on money!]

  42. On March 6, 2012 at 1:38 am,
    irishtony says:

    MATTHEW………MISSIVEDUTEXAS. That was an interesting debate between you two, i enjoyed reading it, i even learned from it. This is what people need to do, TALK, & learn from each other, & be tolerant to the other persons point of view. Good health to you both.

    • On March 6, 2012 at 5:52 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      Isish….I agree with you….great debate…these guys should be up for the
      WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY AWARD..for philosophical journalism….
      (that was ment as a compliment)

  43. On March 6, 2012 at 3:52 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    “centrally controlled paper money is a MUCH bigger threat”. What do you think we have now? And where do you think the controllers want to push this. The Euro is even more centralized than the dollar, now imposing austerity on very diverse cultures and nations for derivatives commitment created out of thin air. Centralized or not, would it not be better to have a currency issued free of a debt instrument?

    As far as centralization, I agree with you. the more de-centralized and divided the powers of government are, the better. National defense (not foreign adventures) should be de-centralized, communications should be decentralized, basically anything the 10 planks of the communist manifesto wants centralized should be under the responsibility of the state or county, with clear rules and penalties to prevent abuses.

    Did you know currencies appeared at county levels during the depression?

    Because of the banks closing temporarily and the lack of physical currency, someone had to come up with another form of currency to keep the economy going and a way for trade to continue.

    http://www.depressionscrip.com/

    I understand that not agreeing with you that gold or silver should be money gets you irritated. I also understand that it is very difficult to let go of inculcated doctrines and ideologies. The facts usually help in this fashion. Did you know the constitution does NOT impose gold and silver on the Federal government, only the states?

    Here, read it for yourself:

    Article. I – section 10 – No State shall …coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts…

    What you call “all over the map”, I call having a wide spectrum of knowledge points that are important to consider and ponder. I`m a proponent of the 4 R`s approach to knowledge acquisition: Research, Reasoning, Relating and Recording. The more efforts put in the first step, the more is gained in the last three. Can you guess how much time I put in the first step?

    And by the way, I`m sure the foundings fathers were called utopians during the decades preceding independance. However, once the people got enough of the abuses of the British Crown, it mattered not that their ideas were ridiculed in the beginning.

    “The colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the colonies their money, which created unemployment and dissatisfaction. The inability of the colonists to get power to issue their own money permanently out of the hands of George III and the international bankers was the PRIME reason for the Revolutionary War.” – Benjamin Franklin’s autobiography

    @irishtony – I`m glad you enjoy the exchange.

    @Jerry O^OTB – Good morning to you sir. May the sun find you well and ready to conquer another day:)

    • On March 6, 2012 at 8:14 am,
      Matthew says:

      “What do you think we have now?” -I never said that the current system is more desirable than what you propose.

      “centrally controlled paper money is a MUCH bigger threat”. What do you think we have now? And where do you think the controllers want to push this.” -That’s right, and your “money” would aid and abet these people. The founders new that paper is incompatible with liberty. It is the tool of tyrants. This is why only gold and silver coin was permitted. Paper backed by gold/silver is still open to abuse. The gold standard that people point to as a failure, was unconstitutional. The Coinage Act of 1792 established the silver dollar as the unit of money in the U.S.
      Here is the most important aspect that you have misinterpreted regarding the issuance of money being in the hands of the people:
      Under Sec.14, any person could bring gold or silver bullion and have it coined free of charge, or later for a small fee, exchange it immediately for an equivalent value of coin. The paragraph summary states: “Persons may bring gold and silver bullion, to be coined free of expense;” — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1792

      Wouldn’t you prefer to see those who own gold/silver be forced to part with it if they want any goods or services? What’s wrong with paying real money for real wheat?

      ” it mattered not that their ideas were ridiculed in the beginning.” -Their ideas were sound and very “Austrian”. They also new that these ideas were unlikely to last.

      “Did you know the constitution does NOT impose gold and silver on the Federal government, only the states?” – You obviously do not understand the constitution! What IS allowed is spelled out. Powers not enumerated are forbidden. In other words, what they CAN do is laid out in print. If it’s not on the list, they CAN’T do it.

      “What you call “all over the map”, I call having a wide spectrum of knowledge points…” – I’m sure you have knowledge, but you STILL have not made a compelling or RATIONAL argument for your fake money.

      “Can you guess how much time I put in the first step?” – Time alone is meaningless. You’ve displayed a shallow understanding of basic economics. After generations of gibberish put out to confuse the masses, I’m not surprised. Your “solution” addresses the problem of paying unnecessary interest, but nothing else. In fact, if your solution were to be implemented, the government would just use it as an excuse to spend more. The people’s savings would continue to be transferred to whatever group the planners favor.
      A collective approach to the solution can’t work without the awareness of each individual within the collective. The problem with ignorant people can be found in their twisted logic pertaining to cause and effect, and their self-serving view of what constitutes fairness. Fair exchange without interference would seem very unfair to the clueless majority who’ve become completely dependent on the perks of theft and coercion. They’ll never understand, nor care, that these perks come at someone else’s expense.

  44. On March 6, 2012 at 5:08 am,
    Jerry O^OTB says:

    MISSIVEDUTEXAS….GOOD MORNING TO YOU …..
    Yes, the sun has found me here in sunny Florida….I have picked the last oranges off
    the trees, which means a new season…
    I was up late last nite, listening to James Sinclair, on his report of the “state we find
    ourselves in”…everyone that is not a trillionaire (the new rulers of yours, mine , and
    everyone elses..) I will not go any further …..I believe the discussion has been
    well covered. SO GOOD MORNING AMERICAN..AND ALL WORLD LISTENERS..THAT
    WOULD INCLUDE YOU …Irish…

  45. On March 6, 2012 at 7:08 am,
    martin c says:

    On this site I have found pretty consistently the best comment threads I have ever read on the net, and this is an example. It is a new form of communication, and this site brings it to the highest level!

    Can we all agree that whatever we believe the world ought to look like, that we have a lot of calamity and upheaval to survive between here and there? and that no outcome which we may desire is assured…that we will have involve ourselves? and that we must protect our families and ourselves, then join the fray?

    As I like to say, the order of the day is to squeeze as much “cabbage through the keyhole” as possible…and the Constitution of the US is the most important paper asset in our portfolios!

    • On March 6, 2012 at 9:09 am,
      Jerry O^OTB says:

      martin c…great post…..”THIS WEB .,,,”IS IRON SHARPING IRON”…
      by that everyone becomes stronger..

  46. On March 6, 2012 at 4:31 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    @Matthew – “The founders new that paper is incompatible with liberty.” I hope you make that comment out of deep research. So far, I didn`t find any definite position on this on the part of the founders, except for Franklin`s “A Modest Enquiry into the Nature and Necessity of Paper Currency”, which goes past your concerns about the average joe out there and attempts to stir the reflexion to a more complexe view. His successes in his own state with paper money is not to be discounted, I would also propose that he would disagree with you as far as paper money being “the tool of tyrants”.

    And I guess Lincoln would also disagree:

    ““The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.” – Abraham Lincoln

    And I guess prior to him, Jackson would concede little, but at least this:

    “If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.” – Andrew Jackson

    “You obviously do not understand the constitution!” – You know, you may be right. There was a time I thought I did, but after seeing what is currently law under the commerce clause, I confess to being baffled. It looks to me like the world is turned on its head.

    “…you STILL have not made a compelling or RATIONAL argument for your fake money…” My guess is no argument will ever convince you as long as you keep calling it “fake” money. From my perspective, if using to pay the man his taxes makes him happy, it is REAL money. Again, the medium matters note to me, but who controls it.

    “You’ve displayed a shallow understanding of basic economics.” Really? And what would make you draw this conclusion? Did I talk about aggregate demand, prices being sticky downward, inflation, M1, M2, M3, money velocity, increase in the money supply, productivity, interest rates… Please, enlighten me as to where my knowledge would make you conclude nothing profond can be discuss with me in these matters.

    “Your “solution” addresses the problem of paying unnecessary interest, but nothing else.” The first part is correct, the second is not. The other problem it addresses is control over the money supply, which would go back to the people`s representatives, where it “properly belongs”.

    “the government would just use it as an excuse to spend more.” Well, that`s nothing new. How does a 1.5 trillion dollars yearly deficit, 16 trillions to foreign entities and some unlimited exposure to derivatives sound to you? That`s why “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance”.

    “A collective approach to the solution can’t work without the awareness of each individual within the collective.” I agree. And so did the founding fathers. Again, Franklin saying to the lady “A republic, if you can keep it.”

    “The problem with ignorant people can be found in their twisted logic pertaining to cause and effect, and their self-serving view of what constitutes fairness. Sound like an opportunity for you to go out there and raise educate the masses.

    • On March 6, 2012 at 6:55 pm,
      Matthew says:

      “Again, the medium matters note to me, but who controls it.” -You do not respect free markets. No one should control the money. Money should be what the market says it is. Force equals tyranny. Legal tender laws equal force. If your government breaks down, your money is worthless. Commodity (real) money, protects liberty because it does not obtain it’s value by government decree. It has value over time and space. It knows no nationality and does not care if governments rise or fall. Each holder of real money holds value that laws cannot strip away. Holders of your imaginary money are de facto serfs since the value they hold is contingent upon the honesty and actions of other men. This goes back to your utopian belief that the people’s representatives would somehow suddenly become trustworthy and incorruptible.

      “Because of the imperfections in human nature, evil men will always seek to gain control of the government to further their own ends.” –Thomas Jefferson

      ‘That`s why “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance”.’ — Since the masses will never be eternally vigilant, it is up to each individual to be. Gold offers the best way for the vigilant individual to opt out of the madness of the crowd, or the consensus trance.

      As we go ’round and ’round, the funny thing is that the markets have long since spoken. Gold cannot be “demonetized” as people think. Despite government attacks, it remains money. If not for the same self-dealing, coercive, busybody governments it would still be currency as well. There has been no failure on gold’s part. Quite the opposite in fact. It has proven so suited to it’s role as money that governments knew that it had to be removed from the people’s hands by hook or by crook -or their plans would be undermined. Despite attempts to control markets, reality always ultimately wins. Gold will continue to be the best proxy for the storage of all other commodities for future use. We obviously can’t save in perishable commodities and it’s inconvenient to store any significant amount of the less valuable hard commodities due to the tonnage involved. We also don’t want to store oil for the same reason plus the potential for loss due to fire or a spill. Even silver makes less than perfect money since so much of is consumed and more of it is mined. Due to consumption, the above ground pile shrinks in a way that gold never does. Due to roughly 15x more of it being mined, that small pile is exponentially easier to inflate. Gold, on the other hand just keeps piling up while one-fifteenth the amount exists in the earth crust. This makes it exponentially more difficult to inflate. Here’s just one example of gold’s relative stability. 85 years ago you could buy a new Ford for $600. At the time, $600 equalled about 30 ounces of gold. Today, only the 30 oz of gold (valued at $50,000+) will still buy you a new car. $600 might get you two pairs of shoes.

      In any event, the market WILL have it’s way; but it won’t be pretty. Gold’s role in the world will continue to grow. Your pure fiat specimen (at least it’s not debt based, I’ll give it that) doesn’t have a chance.

  47. On March 6, 2012 at 7:48 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    “You do not respect free markets. No one should control the money.” I find your accusations-conclusions quite funny, considering they cannot be supported by much. I respect the markets as much as it deserves, so much so that . I guess you walk around thinking “gold is money”, “gold is money”, “gold is money”. However, no matter how many times you repeat this mantra, money will remain what the government requires by law for the payment of taxes.

    “Commodity (real) money, protects liberty.” Ho my, buy a gun of you want to protect liberty. Real money will attract covetous people in your neighborhood if loose lips are present amongst your neighbors. Better yet, institute a government with the stated purpose to protect the people’s inalienable rights and you might have liberty for some two hundred years, about the time for the sociopathes to take it over and trample its purpose for vain glory.

    “Each holder of real money holds value that laws cannot strip away.” Ya right. Tell that to americans who had their gold confiscated in the ’30s or victims of the multitude of genocides during the 20th century. My tomatoes hold real value too,

    “your utopian belief that the people’s representatives would somehow sudenly become trustworthy and incorruptible.” You really read all that in my writings? Good for you!!

    Let me just say that we probably would not need governements to secure the blessings of liberty if everyone could be trustworthy and incorruptible.

    “the funny thing is that the markets have long since spoken. Gold cannot be “demonetized” as people think.” Just a word of advice here. Not that I believe it may happen anytime soon, but once the Fed announces interest rates hikes and the end of QEs, dump your real money. Go look at what happened to real money in the `80s, a lot of people got burned.

    You`re right, the market will have its way.

    • On March 6, 2012 at 9:17 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Only a rising REAL interest rate slows or stops the nominal price of gold. If the interest rate is 13% but money supply growth (inflation) is 15%, gold will continue to rise. You obviously don’t know that nominal rates were rising in tandem with the gold price throughout the ’70′s. You obviously also don’t know the difference between real and nominal performance. You’re not alone. When gold stops rising in terms of a nation’s sh*tpaper, the rest of the commodities complex tends to as well. So gold’s decline is not nearly as bad as it seems. Did you know that oil hasn’t gone up at all since 1992 in terms of gold? Now when the Dow ends a bull market, it really does crash and burn. After the crash of ’29, the dow fell by 86%, giving back 3 decades of gains. Since the dollar was pegged to gold at the time, the real and nominal loss was the same. This time, since the bull market in the dow ended in 1999-2000, the dow has lost about 85% in real terms but appears to be up if one happens to believe that the nominal price is a reflection of value. The worst thing about holding gold through a bear market is opportunity cost. But your purchasing power will still be mostly intact. When you hold your Dow positions through a bear market you get smoked. For instance, the Dow -despite appearing to be up since 1999- now buys one third as much bread, one tenth as much oil, less education, medical care, car, airfare, you name it. The people are being plundered and don’t know it, because the dow is only levitating on a flurry of funny money. Gold would protect even a moron, since such losses couldn’t be hidden. There is a reason it’s called “honest money” you know. If you weren’t all talk, you would also realize that even after gold crashed in 1980, it spent the rest of the decade at well over TEN TIMES the price at which it began the bull market. So those who lost were the dummies who came in right at the top in the final months. Everyone else who bought in the years just prior still came out WAY ahead.

      “However, no matter how many times you repeat this mantra, money will remain what the government requires by law for the payment of taxes.” – Wrong. CURRENCY is what they say it will be. Money must be a store of value, currency is, therefore, not money.

      “I respect the markets as much as it deserves..” -As much as it deserves?! So there are limits to your respect for people who want to choose for themselves? That’s what a free market is made of -freedom to choose. What is it about choice and cooperation that threatens you?

      Regarding my “mantra” that gold is money, it’s either ignorance or arrogance -I think both- that allows you to dismiss the fact in such a foolish way. Gold has been money for 5,000+ years. It’s only been a tiny 40 years since the world ceased using gold for international settlements! Have you asked yourself why central banks own it? If they had as much faith in paper as you do, they wouldn’t. Can you explain why it trades at the currency desks of major banks and brokerage firms, and not at the commodities desks? Can you explain bid/ask spreads that are routinely .02% of the price? Sorry, it’s money.

      “Ya right. Tell that to americans who had their gold confiscated in the ’30s or victims of the multitude of genocides” — This is simply idiotic. Do you really need this explained? Okay. Well guess what, the value is still there even AFTER you fail to keep it in your possession. Your joke “money” could be devalued with the stroke of a pen (decree), or a few keystrokes (inflation). Yet you think this is unlikely, despite mountains of damning historical evidence.

      Your eyes are wide shut.

  48. On March 7, 2012 at 4:18 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    “You obviously don’t know that nominal rates were rising in tandem with the gold price throughout the ’70′s. You obviously also don’t know the difference between real and nominal performance.” – Again, conclusions that cannot be supported by what I wrote… get over the demeaning comments and simply make you point.

    “Money must be a store of value, currency is, therefore, not money.”" – Ok, if you want to make that distinction, I can think of a lot of things that can be considered a store of value. Most would not be pratical as a currency.

    “If you weren’t all talk…” – Again, let go of the demaining comments, make your point.
    l
    “So there are limits to your respect for people who want to choose for themselves?” – None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. The market you`re talking about is so skewed and manipulated, one can only conclude our wealth is being corraled for the eventual plunder. The NDAA bill of 2012 is preparation for the plunder, in my opinion.

    “Have you asked yourself why central banks own it?” They were selling tones in the `90s. I suspect the purchases were made by the same people who got the Glass-Steagall Act out of the way.

    “the value is still there even AFTER you fail to keep it in your possession.” – Much good that does.

  49. On March 7, 2012 at 7:54 am,
    Matthew says:

    “conclusions that cannot be supported by what I wrote” -Really? Then what do the following words from you really mean???
    “but once the Fed announces interest rates hikes and the end of QEs, dump your real money”

    “Most would not be pratical as a currency.” -So what. Gold IS practical.

    “The market you`re talking about is so skewed and manipulated…” –What gave you that idea? I said a free market. There hasn’t been one for a very long time.

    “Much good that does.” ??? What? Are you saying that gold should be theft-proof?!
    Is the joke on me? Are such idiotic comebacks just intended to annoy?

    It is very tiresome trying to explain something to someone so unwilling to stay on point.

    Believe it or not, If you made a point that withstood scrutiny and common sense, I would thank you for it and alter my views. I would have no choice, and have had to alter my views in big ways in the past. I might be wrong, but I don’t think your pride would allow you to concede a single point. It also appears that you are drawn to the crackpot, Keynesian-lite views of Bill Still because, due to the limited membership, it makes you feel like you are somehow inside the inner ring; and that you understand something that few others do. A very appealing notion. Also very dangerous.
    http://www.lewissociety.org/innerring.php

    • On March 7, 2012 at 8:21 am,
      James B - Canada says:

      Mathew, you are a brillliant and lucid orator to defend gold. I wish you could replace Bernake.

      Please be as lucid on this comment by your leader Ron Paul

      re: Gaza is a concentration camp.

      Why no comments re: Syrian bombing of Homs. Why is Ron Paul so silent?

      A: this is parallel to his ” hands off” views, Good but what is he background to the concentration camp comparison comment? Why is Paul so afraid of muslims?

      It is a pity because his performance against Bernake was great. I really respect when him when he displayed his 1 ounce silver coin. Bernanke looked like a vampire forced to look at a bulb of garlic.

      • On March 7, 2012 at 9:30 am,
        Jerry O^OTB says:

        James B..
        In order to answer that question of “why is Ron Paul so silent?”
        You need to have these facts in mind…..
        Who is Isreal? Answer , From who’s view point?
        1. Christian…or Non Christian….This is the beginning of understanding why
        Ron thinks as he does…
        a. Christian….., would answer
        these (Isrealites, are God’s chosen people,and there is only one God)
        b. A Non-Christian person..would answer they are just a group of people
        given some land around Jerusalem…in 1948 (we will include muslim here)

        Then…you have to ask….which is Ron Paul?
        answer….Christian.(admitted by him)

        So, now we need to answer , since Ron …is a Christian,
        what does he believe…..?
        Answer …is see above…

        Involved question….What does a Christian believe and what does a Muslem believe?

        Syrian….is a Christian state, or Muslem state?(or country)

        I think Ron’s answer on “non involvement”…is simple,
        We are broke,we were not ment to be the imperial state, and the people of both nations can take care of themselve….
        Futhermore there are two separate religions , chrisian and muslem.
        No one is going to solve this matter, with bombs , bibles, bullit , or bullying..
        this has been going on since the beginning of time….(must go back to the bible and
        history of both)
        The problem is lack of understand of religion….and govt.(ran by people)
        with the understanding or lack of understanding of religion, will screw up every time..

        Therefore….Ron has done his homework on the issue, believe it or not….
        and as a christian…believes and know, first of all Isreal can take care of themselve..
        they do not need us….and the persian iran….knows the same.
        Submitted with respect…Jerry….

        • On March 7, 2012 at 10:07 am,
          James B - Montreal says:

          I agree with Paul re: non involvement to a degree. The issues why the USa really invaded Europe are still debatable.

          But Ron Paul is honest and lucid, clear, and what you see is what you get. Plus I admire Ron Paul being 77 yrs old and appears to be so healthy. Especially his voice. It is very impressive.

          Ron Paul does not have to run. He can enjoy his his money and travel and enjoy the sun,etc.. You have to admire him.

      • On March 7, 2012 at 9:55 am,
        Matthew says:

        James B., Thank you for the compliments.

        I don’t understand how the concentration camp comparison makes RP afraid of muslims. It seems just the opposite to me. It seems he is saying that the people living in Gaza are being held in a concentration camp run by Israel.

        He is not my leader by the way. He just happens to be the only respectable, honest congress-critter out there.

        “Bernanke looked like a vampire forced to look at a bulb of garlic.” -Great analogy!

  50. On March 7, 2012 at 10:05 am,
    James B - Montreal says:

    I really would love to see Paul as the boss of the Fed Reserve because that is the only way we will know what is going on under the hood.

    No question that the American media – both right and left – treat Paul at best as the Rodney Dangerfield of politics.

    With regard to Ron Paul’s clear straight talk, it was brilliant. And I wish there were more like him in the West.

    I would like to meet him. We have a good man Stephen Harper as leader but you know, CANADA CLAIMS that they have 3.4 tonnes of gold.

    I do not believe it Or maybe I am wrong but it is most likely at in Kentucky or at the Fed Reserve in NY. Canada will never see it.

    I pray that the USA will get out of this and cleanse itself of secret societies that work against the people and be the beacon of justice. Greatest country in the world. If the USA falls, the West will fall 30 minutes later. It is a divine land. When I am in the USA I always feel so.

  51. On March 7, 2012 at 4:26 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    @James B – Canada – To Matthew: “you are a brillliant and lucid orator to defend gold.” – Personnally, I`ve see and heard much better, and without the invectives and personnal attacks, which for some every debator knows draws attention away from a good argumentation and should be avoided. By the way, Canada is not without its own secret societies and corruption, start there, This fight is global, and every decent human being should ship in to weed out the plagues of sociopaths in positions of power.

    Anyway, on to your comments, there, Matthew.

    “Gold IS practical.”

    Yeah, right. I can`t wait to see the boats floating around with trillions of dollars in gold to pay China`s existing US cash reserves, US bond holders around the world, and pensioners at home. There is not enough gold in this entire solar system to pay the current deficits (federal, state and loca), let alone what is coming, even if you don`t include all the exposure the Fed has signed on to.

    “I said a free market. ” – And you accuse ME of being a utopian? Haha, good one.

    “Are you saying that gold should be theft-proof?” – No, I`m saying stop holding on to the gold idea as if it`s the silver bullet (or golden bullet, in this case) that will tame your anxiety about whatever. Get involved at the local level at least, keep those poeple honest, get them to issue their own currency to pay local taxes, just don`t call it that. The county could save all that interests if it didn`t have to use the Fed`s funny money.

    “If you made a point that withstood scrutiny and common sense.” – Right, like trillions of dollars in gold floating around the world make sense.

    “I don’t think your pride would allow you to concede a single point.” Pride has nothing to do with it, at least agree you may need to work harder at communicating your message better. Hint, avoir personnal attacks and invectives.

    “It also appears that you are drawn to the crackpot, Keynesian-lite views of Bill Still…” – Tell you what. You get some popcorn and watch “Money as Debt” and then “The money masters” and then, if you still want to discuss crackpots, I`ll oblige.

    “…due to the limited membership, it makes you feel like you are somehow inside the inner ring; and that you understand something that few others do….” – Ho yea, avoiding throwing psycho-bable in the direction of someone one has never met or talked also helps keep a debate cordial and the interlocutors credible.

    • On March 7, 2012 at 7:10 pm,
      Matthew says:

      “There is not enough gold…” -Sorry about what you call “personal attacks”, but again you are displaying your feeble understanding of gold. The argument that there is not enough gold is an old, silly one. There is ALWAYS enough gold. Owing to it’s ductility and malleability -properties rarely found together, it is nearly infinitely divisible. With technology today, it is even more divisible. One could easily spend, electronically, tiny amounts without the need to fabricate smaller pieces. 400 oz bars would never have to leave the vault. James Turks patented technology is well established, and ready for the task. So quantity is not an issue. The bigger confusion is price, which comes from the mistaken belief that dollars (or any fiat money) measure value. Gold measures value, especially over the long term, better than anything. See my Ford example. Price illusions created by the reckless creation of LIMITLESS unnatural money, only distorts people perception of value. In other words, ALL raw materials are limited. Dollars and T-bonds are not. So the Chinese can sell all of their holdings and put the proceeds into gold, but the dollar price would obviously rise. This is already happening in slow motion. Why do you think gold has risen 7 fold in a decade?
      The difference between price and value can be seen by comparing the price of the Dow over the last century with what it is worth. In 1929, the Dow was priced as high as $381. This equalled nearly 19 oz of gold; 12 Ford Model T’s; or 300 barrels of oil. Today, the Dow closed at $12,837 -more than 33 times the 1929 price. So let’s see what it buys. Oh, look at that. It’s only worth 7.62 oz of gold. If the dollar rise equaled a REAL rise, it would be worth 627 oz. Now, how many new Fords can you buy with $12.8K? Maybe .5? Not 12. And oil? 120. Here’s another one. In 1929, 1 oz of gold was worth 230 loaves of bread. Today it is worth between 400+ and 800+ (assuming $4 or $2, respectively). But wait, we are in a huge deflation in REAL terms, so that wasn’t fair. So lets go back to 1999, the modern day equivalent of 1929, and an oz of gold would buy about 250 loaves. It’s pretty irrational for man to create trillions of dollars in a finite world and still expect a consistent purchasing power. As I pointed out earlier, you won’t concede much. So let me make it clear. There is absolutely nothing real that the Chinese can spend their reserves on without forcing prices much higher. Not real estate, not copper, not cattle. So of course not gold! This imbalance between the supply of each reflects just how leveraged the system is. The market is naturally trying to balance the two. Whether by inflation or by deflation, the result will be that gold outperforms paper until the deleveraging is complete.

      “that will tame your anxiety about whatever…” – Sorry, I don’t have anxiety, and I don’t hold onto these ideas with any expectations attached. I will focus my attention on this sector as long as it is profitable to do so. I suggest that you do the same.

      “you may need to work harder at communicating your message better.” – Yes, where comprehension is limited, I agree. I generally haven’t had a problem, but a few outliers do pop up from time to time though. Welcome.

      I’ve seen The Money Masters, and The Secret of Oz. Both are worthwhile despite the promoted solution. The Money Masters was better and worth it for the quotes alone. When I saw Ellen Brown in Oz held up as an expert; and Bill talk of having a built in 2-3% inflation it became difficult to watch. He was also much more defensive about his “solution”. He was constantly saying goldbugs will say this or claim that so don’t listen to them. Pleading with the viewer is not very scholarly. You won’t see that from any well known Austrians.

      You need to understand that Austrians are not for bank controlled gold. There can only be real freedom if power is decentralized. We don’t need central banks or a treasury in control of the money. Why trade one master for another? It wouldn’t surprise me if Still and Brown are funded by the banks. You should read Good Money by George Selgin. Here’s the description:

      Good Money tells the fascinating story of British manufacturers’ challenge to the Crown’s monopoly on coinage. In the 1780s, when the Industrial Revolution was gathering momentum, the Royal Mint failed to produce enough small-denomination coinage for factory owners to pay their workers. As the currency shortage threatened to derail industrial progress, manufacturers began to mint custom-made coins, called “tradesman’s tokens.” Rapidly gaining wide acceptance, these tokens served as the nation’s most popular currency for wages and retail sales until 1821, when the Crown outlawed all moneys except its own. http://www.amazon.com/Good-Money-Birmingham-Beginnings-1775-1821/dp/0472116312

      Then try Human Action by Ludwig von Mises.

      Good Luck

    • On March 7, 2012 at 7:43 pm,
      Matthew says:

      Here’s another clear example of the dollar’s lack of price stability. One million dollars was worth 50,000 ounces of gold less than 100 years ago, today, a million dollars is worth about 600 oz. Gold is the only way to protect savings from the Fed’s inflation or Bill Still’s. Everyone cannot and should not have the same standard of living. To say otherwise is to deny natural realities. With the population exploding, resource scarcity will grow more acute.

  52. On March 7, 2012 at 11:59 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    “your feeble understanding of gold” – What was that apology for?

    “There is ALWAYS enough gold” – So I`m just supposed to believe you? How doctrinaire of you!!

    “ALL raw materials are limited.” I guess we`ll have to define raw materials. I include farm production with this, which is renewable.

    “Bill talk of having a built in 2-3% inflation it became difficult to watch.” – Well that`s good news, you at least watch. How does one go from that (these movies are long) to “crackpot, Keynesian-lite views of Bill Still” is not clear to me. Solutions can always be debated. I personally didn`t get that this was set in stone. What I did like was the removal of fractionnal reserve banking as a system and the issuance of currency FREE of a debt instrument.

    “Austrians are not for bank controlled gold.” So where is the gold going to come from? Thin air?

    You still have not explained to me how the trillions of dollars of debt dumbed on the american people are going to be paid short of declaring most of it odious debt and pushing the re-set button.

    “One million dollars was worth 50,000 ounces of gold less than 100 years ago, today, a million dollars is worth about 600 oz.” I`m not debating the fact the currency is debased, I`m debating the need to having loaned to the government in order for it and the people to use it. If you have no need for money and can let it sit in gold for years to maintain its value, fine, go ahead, just to force all the people to pay interest to bankers in order to be able to use it.

    Gold would have to be loaned to the government, at interest, if the gold standard was to be re-instated. That is why I call this the last stronghold of the elite.

    “With the population exploding, resource scarcity will grow more acute.” – But you just said there is always enough gold, so which is it, enough, or not?

    • On March 8, 2012 at 9:22 am,
      Matthew says:

      “So I`m just supposed to believe you?” – No, of course not. I’m just stating a simple fact that will stand up to your scrutiny.

      “So where is the gold going to come from? Thin air?” -Most of the gold is in private hands. It would be available just as private dollars are available to markets. The rest would come from mining.

      “You still have not explained to me…” – What’s to explain? In constant dollars, the debt can’t be repaid. Thanks to Still, you seem to think that it’s important that it does get repaid. Remember, if the borrowers (U.S.) were foolish enough to take on way too much debt, it was only because creditors were foolish enough to provide too much credit. Both should suffer for their miscalculations. A hyperinflationary course puts most of the consequences to the borrower, while a deflationary course puts the consequences to the lender and borrower. Savers would come out on top as they should. It’s interesting to note that in the 1930′s and in 1980, the gold price peaked only after it had risen enough to “back” the debt (debt divided by the market price of the claimed 261,499,000 oz held in reserve). The market naturally discounts available information in seeking balance.

      “Gold would have to be loaned to the government, at interest,” – Governments only have what they TAKE or BORROW. They should have to pay interest for the use of others’ capital. BUT no one, like the Fed OR Treasury, should have the extraordinary power and privilege to create capital out of nothing. When this is done, what they are actually doing is transferring capital from it’s legitimate owners, those who produce real goods and services, to themselves. They then use the loot, making big promises to buy votes from the drooling class that doesn’t know or care where the money came from.

      “But you just said there is always enough gold, so which is it, enough, or not?” – Gold is not consumed, so it only grows scarce relative to an exploding currency supply, and potentially, if production doesn’t keep up, an exploding population. So there will be enough, but the value must rise. It already has, and it will continue to.

      Now, let’s revisit your response to this question: “Are you saying that gold should be theft-proof?” – Your response that began with “No, I`m saying stop holding on to the gold idea…”, is not an answer. You have done this throughout our exchange. You’ve addressed many points without actually addressing them. Another example is: “Gold IS practical.” -To which you said: “Yeah, right. I can`t wait to see the boats floating around with trillions of dollars in gold…” -Here you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course gold is practical. It is not scarce, it is limited. This is what you want in money. Why trust to a bunch of unaccountable bureaucrats a task that nature has already conveniently dealt with? It is also fungible, divisible, durable, and doesn’t corrode. A high unit value makes it very easy to transport as well. A dime-sized coin will buy nearly $200 worth of goods.

      Ever heard of honest weights and measures? Do you think society would tolerate an ever-changeing foot or meter? How about a gallon, pound, or gram? Society would obviously NOT tolerate it. Unsound, dishonest money is only tolerated because the consequences aren’t widely understood, if even recognized at all.

      You should be proud of yourself, by the way, I think you’re the first here to contest another’s compliment and then proceed to attack the writer. What others get out of either of our comments is their business, don’t ya think? I understand your tone if directed at me as it is a response to my tone with you. But to lash out at bystanders is infantile and embarrassing. You invite my “invectiveness.”

      You “Greenbackers” are big government left wing “conservatives.” Like all good scams, your leaders use a lot truths to sway the unsuspecting to their fraud.

      You should expose yourself to real scholars before falling for a non-scholar. Little is even known about Still. Who financed The Money Masters? Did he? I think he would have mentioned it somewhere if he had.
      You can start with someone who doesn’t plead with anyone for acceptance. Here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40MBdt1BQgE
      And here: http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=meetstill

  53. On March 8, 2012 at 9:30 am,
    Matthew says:

    My response is “awaiting moderation” so here it is without the links.

    “So I`m just supposed to believe you?” – No, of course not. I’m just stating a simple fact that will stand up to your scrutiny.

    “So where is the gold going to come from? Thin air?” -Most of the gold is in private hands. It would be available just as private dollars are available to markets. The rest would come from mining.

    “You still have not explained to me…” – What’s to explain? In constant dollars, the debt can’t be repaid. Thanks to Still, you seem to think that it’s important that it does get repaid. Remember, if the borrowers (U.S.) were foolish enough to take on way too much debt, it was only because creditors were foolish enough to provide too much credit. Both should suffer for their miscalculations. A hyperinflationary course puts most of the consequences to the borrower, while a deflationary course puts the consequences to the lender and borrower. Savers would come out on top as they should. It’s interesting to note that in the 1930′s and in 1980, the gold price peaked only after it had risen enough to “back” the debt (debt divided by the market price of the claimed 261,499,000 oz held in reserve). The market naturally discounts available information in seeking balance.

    “Gold would have to be loaned to the government, at interest,” – Governments only have what they TAKE or BORROW. They should have to pay interest for the use of others’ capital. BUT no one, like the Fed OR Treasury, should have the extraordinary power and privilege to create capital out of nothing. When this is done, what they are actually doing is transferring capital from it’s legitimate owners, those who produce real goods and services, to themselves. They then use the loot, making big promises to buy votes from the drooling class that doesn’t know or care where the money came from.

    “But you just said there is always enough gold, so which is it, enough, or not?” – Gold is not consumed, so it only grows scarce relative to an exploding currency supply, and potentially, if production doesn’t keep up, an exploding population. So there will be enough, but the value must rise. It already has, and it will continue to.

    Now, let’s revisit your response to this question: “Are you saying that gold should be theft-proof?” – Your response that began with “No, I`m saying stop holding on to the gold idea…”, is not an answer. You have done this throughout our exchange. You’ve addressed many points without actually addressing them. Another example is: “Gold IS practical.” -To which you said: “Yeah, right. I can`t wait to see the boats floating around with trillions of dollars in gold…” -Here you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Of course gold is practical. It is not scarce, it is limited. This is what you want in money. Why trust to a bunch of unaccountable bureaucrats a task that nature has already conveniently dealt with? It is also fungible, divisible, durable, and doesn’t corrode. A high unit value makes it very easy to transport as well. A dime-sized coin will buy nearly $200 worth of goods.

    Ever heard of honest weights and measures? Do you think society would tolerate an ever-changeing foot or meter? How about a gallon, pound, or gram? Society would obviously NOT tolerate it. Unsound, dishonest money is only tolerated because the consequences aren’t widely understood, if even recognized at all.

    You should be proud of yourself, by the way, I think you’re the first here to contest another’s compliment and then proceed to attack the writer. What others get out of either of our comments is their business, don’t ya think? I understand your tone if directed at me as it is a response to my tone with you. But to lash out at bystanders is infantile and embarrassing. You invite my “invectiveness.”

    You “Greenbackers” are big government left wing “conservatives.” Like all good scams, your leaders use a lot truths to sway the unsuspecting to their fraud.

    You should expose yourself to real scholars before falling for a non-scholar. Little is even known about Still. Who financed The Money Masters? Did he? I think he would have mentioned it somewhere if he had.

  54. On March 8, 2012 at 4:28 pm,
    Joey Walmsley says:

    Great interview with Craig Lindsay about the challenges facing a exploration company and it seems some of the problems they have are also evident in your investment in Premium Exploration. Seems speculation is the only answers investors seem to be getting from their investment in Premium. Thanks Al for the great interview…

  55. On March 8, 2012 at 5:52 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    “BUT no one, like the Fed OR Treasury, should have the extraordinary power and privilege to create capital out of nothing.” or the Fed or every single bank in the US with that fractionnal reserve system. So am I mistaken in perceiving we might actually agree on the need to see the fractionnal reserve system disappear?

    “They then use the loot, making big promises to buy votes from the drooling class that doesn’t know or care where the money came from.” That is why the constitution is in place. WE all share a responsibility to make sure it is followed, even today. Gold cannot do this work, only we can.

    “Now, let’s revisit your response to this question: “Are you saying that gold should be theft-proof?” The answer was obviously no, and that is what I said, no. I really thought you could handle more than that, I guess I overestimated your capacity to reason.

    “Here you are arguing for the sake of arguing.” That is your point of view, I`ll give you that.

    “Why trust to a bunch of unaccountable bureaucrats a task that nature has already conveniently dealt with?” Well, I wouldn`t dare to say trust, but certainly take a look at what they`re doing, and get involved. Sociopaths are always attracted by positions of power. Most americans don`t know that and would rather have the tube entertain them.

    “I think you’re the first here to contest another’s compliment and then proceed to attack the writer…But to lash out at bystanders is infantile and embarrassing.” Wow, I guess your exposure to “lashings out” have been mild, I doesn`t even make a beep on my radar. From my perspective, I simply stated that I disagreed with his opinion.

    “You invite my “invectiveness.”” – My guess is anybody who doesn`t agree with your gold is peace, prosperity and liberty idea invites you invectiveness.

    “You “Greenbackers” are big government left wing “conservatives.” Like all good scams, your leaders use a lot truths to sway the unsuspecting to their fraud. ” There you go again. Did you know that the greenback allowed Lincoln to finance the whole secession war and win it? This continent would have spent the next hundred years in wars just like the European countries, all with the blessings of the bankers of course.

    “Who financed The Money Masters? Did he? I think he would have mentioned it somewhere if he had.” I don`t know and don`t really care. The guy pointed out THE big scam in this whole financial system, fractionnal reserve banking, and that is not to be discarded.

    “He therefore is the truest friend to the liberty of this country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence extend, will not suffer a man to be chosen into any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man….” – Samuel Adams

    Nha, football is the thing!

  56. On March 8, 2012 at 7:44 pm,
    Matthew says:

    “So am I mistaken in perceiving we might actually agree on the need to see the fractionnal reserve system disappear?” – Yes, of course we agree. But that should have been clear at the outset.

    “That is why the constitution is in place. WE all share a responsibility to make sure it is followed, even today.” – The Greenbackers stance does not follow the constitution.
    (see the provided links above to begin your verification of this)

    “Most americans don`t know that and would rather have the tube entertain them.” – Exactly. This is why a bet on the proper actions of the collective is sure to lose. The masses have no clue what their best interests are. Nothing in history suggests that this will ever change, with the possible exception of brief periods. There’s no way around it, gold protects those who own it from the stupidity of the masses. Collective solutions don’t work – unless widespread misery is the goal. It’s Marxism. Every brand of socialist hates gold because all socialism runs on theft. Euphemisms and years of indoctrination don’t change a thing.

    “Did you know that the greenback allowed Lincoln to finance the whole secession war and win it?”- Is this supposed to be a good thing? You should have a look at Thomas DiLorenzo’s books on Lincoln. Unlike Doris Kearns Goodwin and Bill O’Reilly, his work doesn’t aim to distort in order to please any establishment masters.

    “The guy pointed out THE big scam…” – Ha, nonsense. Have you been hiding under a rock? Still himself makes it clear that he has not presented anything new.

  57. On March 9, 2012 at 6:12 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    “Have you been hiding under a rock?” Maybe I have, what other widespread litterature pre-dates this film, so prior to 1996. I confess, I was in the matrix at that time.

    • On March 9, 2012 at 7:55 am,
      Matthew says:

      G. Edward Griffin released The Creature From Jekyll Island in 1994 and a movie on the same subject in 1993. Since there was no youtube then, it was probably much more well known than Still’s The Money Masters for many years. I’m just guessing, but I would be willing to bet that it is still far more well known today, at least among “financial types.”
      Eustace Mullins published (with great difficulty- no one would touch it) Mullins on the Federal Reserve in 1952. This work was updated and published in 1983 under the title Secrets of the Federal Reserve.
      There have been others, but I doubt that they’re as complete as Griffin’s or Mullins’ work.
      More recently, 2002 I think, there’s Pieces of Eight: The Monetary Powers and Disabilities of the United States Constitution by Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr., Ph.D., J.D.
      There are some great comments on it at Amazon; GATA; and Run to Gold dot com.

      Vieira is brilliant and extremely highly regarded by people who I think you and I would both respect. If you’ve seen America: Freedom to Fascism, you’ve seen Vieira.

      Hopefully you won’t let your experience with this abrasive “Austrian” cheerleader turn you off to these great works!

      Here’s a portion of James Turk’s review of Pieces of Eight (at GATA):

      This book is essential reading for every American to understand how “the monetary system of the United States is [today] the very antithesis of what the Founders contemplated and the Constitution embodies.” It is also essential reading so that every American will know and understand what needs to be done to put the United States back onto a sound constitutional footing. It explains what “We, the People” must know about money, as well as why money — the C$ — is different from and superior to the money substitute we know as the Federal Reserve dollar — the F$ — which is but the shadow of money itself.

      When rightly understood and correctly put into practice, the Constitution is a powerful beacon, but this light cannot shine if the original intent of the Founders is ignored. And foremost among the many strengths of this book is its meticulous research of the words of the Founders, what those words meant to them, and how those words were twisted, turned, and purposely misused by demagogues, charlatans, and other unscrupulous office holders after the Constitution’s adoption. After all, “Fractional-reserve banking, monetization of public debt, and the other card tricks and sleight of hand of modern monetary manipulation are profitable, economically and politically,” to those dishonest politicians who would use those monetary manipulations and the invisible theft of property they make possible to thwart the intent as well as to discredit the wisdom of the Founders. But it’s not just reprobate politicians who deserve scorn; so too do many dishonest Supreme Court justices.

      This book reveals how the Supreme Court is no more bound by the Constitution than the other federal branches. Vieira presents a thoroughly detailed historical account of the perfidy of many of its justices, who — assuming that they were not acting from inexplicable stupidity — are time and again recklessly driven by perceived political expediency at best, and narrow self-serving interests at worst, in complete disregard of the Constitution.

      “Pieces of Eight” capably and convincingly demonstrates the inadequacy of a national currency. Even when restricted by the Constitution and in face of the historical evidence of the bad consequences that arise from tampering with the monetary unit, the U.S. experience shows how a national currency is inevitably impaired and irreparably damaged by the whims of politicians and justices, lapdogs all for the moneyed interests.

      • On March 9, 2012 at 3:27 pm,
        John W. Robertson says:

        Thanks for the dossier of knowledge Matthew. You’ve adding to my reading/viewing list.

  58. On March 9, 2012 at 5:54 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    @Matthew – Very interesting to see we were exposed to pretty much the same body of knowledge. Freedom to fascism is what opened the rabbit hole for me. I was just looking at Bush`s actions and went on netflix with the keywords “bush” and “fascism”, and there poped Aaron Russo`s film. This is also the film that introduced me to our favorite candidate RP. I can take credit for reading Griffin or Mullins` books, but I did go through quit a bit of litterature. Pieces of eight would be an album from Styx in my mind, I guess I can now add it to the “books” category as well.

    As for “the U.S. experience shows how a national currency is inevitably impaired and irreparably damaged by the whims of politicians and justices, lapdogs all for the moneyed interests.”, I think you would agree that people leading busy lives and not getting involved, or at the very least “trust, but verify”, may have the greater cause and effect relationship with that area.

    The price of liberty is eternal vigilance…

    • On March 9, 2012 at 6:22 pm,
      John W. Robertson says:

      Wonderful debate, missive. In truth, I think you and Matthew are pretty close on views. Perhaps more a slight question of cause, but not effect. Hat’s off to you, sir. Both of you.

  59. On March 9, 2012 at 7:04 pm,
    missivedutexas says:

    Thanks John, encouragements are always welcome. I`ll say that this exchange brought me a little closer to understanding what RP suggests as to making gold and silver competing currencies with the FRNs. Removing these metals from the capital gains taxation scam would do that. Requiring gold and silver to pay taxes, however, would bring my utmost resistance. I’d rather pay the man with devalued dollars than full fledged hard currency.

  60. On March 10, 2012 at 3:55 am,
    missivedutexas says:

    For those curious about local script-currency, look into Lewis D. Solomon, of George Washinton University, Robert Swann of the Shumacher Society and the New Economics Institute. I am not vouching for anyone, just find this info interesting.

  61. On March 27, 2012 at 9:39 am,
    Dennis M. O'Neil says:

    Real Estate update…I thought this belonged on this thread

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-prices-hit-10-low-131200327.html