Far Eastern and Institutional Gold Purchases and Investing

December 15, 2012

This week we discuss Far Eastern and institutional gold purchases with Bron Suchecki from the Perth Mint; investing with Rick Ackerman and Sean Brodrick; the situation facing mining companies in the Yukon with John Burges and Mike Niehuser; general issues that affect investing with both Roger Wiegand and Jeff Deist.

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In this show Al discusses:


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    Dec 15, 2012 15:27 AM

    Seg.4…..Rick A……uptick in Housing….can not happen until more jobs are created.. or….. will be when, the govt. sends a free, certificate of occupancy in the mail, to all the 54 million food stamp great society . The govt. created them, the govt. will have to take care of them…..welcome , to ROME….

      Dec 15, 2012 15:50 AM

      Really enjoyed listening to The segment with Rick

        Dec 15, 2012 15:35 PM

        Yep Ann, Rick does tell it like it is.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:59 AM

      Jerry , you are correct, DEAD CAT bounce now happening. The banks (nice government men) will soon own all homes.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:13 PM

        hello Bobby,,,,thanks…..oh, this reminds me of Monopoly, the banks hold all the cards……eventually, even the people who own real estate , will be underbid,and under rented(via rent certificates issued by govt to the 54 million already on the dole, …..the banks can just wait and wait, until the little people with cash,,run out of cash, run out of time, or patients…until the sheeple understand completely, what is going on the real estate game is fixed, and fixed by govt. and bankers……being in the right location will not make any difference……even the best location , is effect by price, income, supply and demand….. BUT you aready know that, because you and I think in the same terms… “and been there done that”……oh,,,,MERRY CHRISTMAS…. TO YOU AND YOURS…..

        Dec 15, 2012 15:28 PM

        Well, Bobby, we certainly know that they could, don’t we!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:50 PM

      In the Box, there is certainly no uptick of any kind where I live. (Not my comment regarding our friends selling second homes in our area and in Arizona.)

    Dec 15, 2012 15:34 AM

    I disagree. With real estate, it is always Location…..LOCATION.
    I monitor the real estate market in the US, Canada, UK and Spain closely.
    In areas of California e.g. SF Bay area, it is showing a 20+% year over year increase. In Florida certain areas are just beginning to show a turn-around; likewise coastal areas of Texas. In the Midwest it is still after 5 years still going down.
    In Canada, towards the East it started going down a few months ago and Vancouver I predict is about to go down seriously.
    Washington State coastal , I predict, is still in a slow decline and probably will be for a while (years).
    London, on the other hand, is still going up. Amazingly over 50% of inner greater London is now owned by non-residents!.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:15 AM

      CFS and Jerry,
      RE is ALL about LOCATION…San Diego has picked up considerably. Sustainable? We will see..of course!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:02 AM

      CFSUK..glad to hear from you…..Location is part of , but, not all…..remember, not
      all 54million people live in one spot….therefore, location is important. but is not the only factor…….one can also mention that people like to flock together, it is reported that 98% of the people live on two (2)% of the ground….so, location is important ,but location alone is not the only thing…otherwise we would not have had a slow down, or a roll over in the pricing across the board……….rememeber, it is the meeting of the minds between the two parties,,,,a buyer (with cash/loan) and a seller (with product)…..that create a
      sell, or an up tick……So, the sheeple have been convenced it is a good time to purchase,by low cheap money, subsidized by the savers,and the Fed….not a true market but, subsidized again, which in a few year will be faced with higher rates, which in turn will slow again, thereby , trapping the current purchasers in their new found great purchase (deal) they have aquired….only, to be facing the same or worse circumstances they faced in 2007-08…”.a bust”….One , needs to go back an study, 1973 and 1979, to maybe get a handle on what is possible….and not judge , the current uptick, as a great time to purchase,,,,IT IS EASE TO PURCHASE, BUT, HARD when times are tough , to Sell…and make money…..

      The area which you mentioned are sensitive to baby boomers, jobs, income, or cash…
      since, I have an education in real estate and not just a license, the reason for the uptick, I believe,,, is that people preceive they are getting a value in certain locations, from the overpriced product
      they were offered several years ago..and cheap money , intrest rates, which should not be this low and historically have never been this low……..One only has to look at income, for the majority of people, and see nationwide, world wide, the existing number of people unemployed , if you are unemployed you have no income…..without income, you can not get a loan, without a loan, you can not purchase a house…….
      as, one expert mentioned on another show, there are approximately 20 million vacant homes, all these vacant homes are not in one area……World wide, USA wise, we have a problem, which is not going to be resolved, which does impact housing…..
      In addition,,,,real estate is not” portable”, and continues to change,,,,look at history and the movement of people….
      thanks for reading and have a wonderful Holiday…..ootb….

        Dec 15, 2012 15:47 AM

        Some very good points! Where is the h__ is your buddy Irish…..drinking A LOT at the pub – no doubt!!

          Dec 15, 2012 15:10 PM

          Big Al,
          Thanks SO MUCH for the stuff on Alexco….I am a long term hold with this company.

            Dec 15, 2012 15:25 PM

            Marc, anytime you want information on a company (sponsor or not) just let me know.

            You gonna watch the “big joke” in Las Vegas on the 23rd?

          Dec 15, 2012 15:25 PM

          marc… ya been…..IRISH was on tour this week with the Queen, taking inventory of the gold bars in the British Vault. Irish did send his best, and told me to mention to the little people, that buying real estate this time of the year is not wise, that buying this time of the year is an emotional thing, ……but, it is the time of cheer, Merry Christmas, in case I forget later…..

            Dec 15, 2012 15:03 PM

            Jerry, (Big Al)
            Great here in SD. The RE business can be tricky…no doubt. But I like your advice that now is the TIME to make MERRY and pour down your favourite beverage…….Yes, a MERRY X-MAS to all and to all a happy new year. BIG AL, I guess you were talking about the LAS VEGAS bowl, no? Yes, I will be tuning in. ALL the best.

            Dec 15, 2012 15:25 PM

            Yup, I certainly was.

            Having said what I said, I think it will be an interesting game and very telling for the future and current status of the Dawgs.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:34 PM

        Great comments In the Box!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:02 PM

      Jootb, you will soon see that these investors will not be able to profit in the rental business, they know little about the costs of property management as well as dealing with renters without jobs.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:26 PM

        ditto Bobby……agree….

        Dec 15, 2012 15:28 PM

        And that Bobby, is why Kathy and I are sitting on our condo up here and not renting it out. I do not want the hassle of non payment and a trashed place!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:35 PM

      If one is planning to buy or sell in the next year or two, real estate trends may matter, but the inevitable bond-crisis downdraft of we’re hurtling towards is going to completely overwhelm any trends we see today. By all rights, interest rates should be well into double-digits right now, were it not for QE-to-infinity. If you bought (or can buy) for a good price, and for cash, and have a reason to buy, awesome. Do it. But otherwise, there’s still too many 2nd and vacation homes with no baby-boom generation to buy in the next 10 years.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:27 PM

        JWR….Merry Christmas,,,great thoughts as always….ootb

        Dec 15, 2012 15:22 PM

        I agree with you John W.

        The second home market is devastated and I believe will remain in that condition for quite some time.

        Here is an interesting story, “Good friends of ours are selling their places in Arizona and up here. They will probably loose about $200K on the one here and another $700K on the one in Arizona.

        Doesn’t get much worse than that!

          Dec 16, 2012 16:54 PM

          Ugh, yes Al that’s a pretty big write down. That AZ value sounds like they bought in 2005…most homes in Arizona didn’t even cost $700K even at the peak of the market.

            Dec 17, 2012 17:47 AM

            I believe that is exactly when they did buy it John W.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:49 PM

      I know very little about real estate, cfs, but my observations regarding the areas that you mentioned are exactly the same as yours.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:36 AM

    Particularly enjoyed this week’s contributors since the number of specific PM companies discussed was limited. Just some comments:
    1. Rick’s right on about the fact we’re seeing a “dead cat bounce” in the housing market. We have another leg down coming.
    2. Rick’s dead wrong about the PM stocks for 2013. We’re in a bottoming process and some selected PM stocks have a little further to fall in the next 3-4 weeks but then they will have bottomed. Other PM stocks have bottomed already. The bullish % index on PMs is falling (based on breadth indicators) and we should reach a bottom in about the 3-4 weeks as mentioned above. I’m not making a recommendation but I have begun to purchase and will continue to purchase PM stocks and resource stocks heavily over the next 2 months. I hope to be fully invested for the first time in months.
    3. Rick made a comment about the conventional markets outperforming the PMs recently—-weeks ago I commented that would happen—–that will continue the rest of this month and the PMs will be under pressure for the rest of this month. In about 3 weeks that process will change. The PMs will then hold their own over the conventional markets. In fact we should see an interim low in the PMs in the next 2-3 weeks. The first part of 2013 in all likelihood will see the PMs “backing and filling” with an upward bias. It will be frustrating but the fall should see us higher and ready to break out to new highs. I’ve not felt more positive (in a long time)about the PMs and PM stock charts then I do now. In about 2-3 weeks will be the chance to purchase the PMs at a price that we may not see again in our life-time. In the next few weeks will be some of most opportune time to take positions in the PM stocks. THE ONE HUGE CAVEAT——congress and the president “get religion” and come in with a real austerity and balanced budget package—-and we know the odds of that happening, don’t we?

      Dec 15, 2012 15:13 AM

      How about SLIM and NONE…BTW, Doc, I have noticed you are A LOT more decisive and adamant about your decision making processes with respect to your analysis of the PM markets…..I believe you are on top of your game…good for you Doc, good for you!

        Dec 15, 2012 15:06 AM

        Thanks, Marc. There are times when the markets are murky and there are times when they shout at you about a trend. I hedge when things are murky but when the markets shout at you it becomes time to respond. Of course things can change in a heartbeat but some of the charts are screaming that we’ve seen the bottom in resources and the PMs. It doesn’t mean we’ll “go to the moon” over night but some important trends are in their nascent formation. I’ve been patiently waiting for some of these early signals——-we could be once again disappointed but I don’t think so.

          Dec 15, 2012 15:45 AM

          As I have said in the past, I feel very fortunate, like, I am sure, others here, that I am very fortunate to have your consistent input on this site and of course, all the continued best to you and your family!

            Dec 15, 2012 15:32 PM

            Marc, I could not agree with you more!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:45 PM

      Regarding your huge caveat, I completely agree and commented on that way back when.

      As usual, Doc, great comments.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:07 PM

      Evening Doc!

      I only will say that I believe that the conventional markets will outperform the PMs mostly because they will go sideways, or bounce slightly after the “fiscal cliff agreement” comes – buy the rumor: sell the news. But your timing is spot on with what I am seeing. I think we are going to actually get the signal of a bottom in the PM stock by watching the silver miners. I think we are actually going to get a nice sell-off come January, possibly to retest the November lows, or maybe 1320 on the S&P. Wont’ know for certain – I’ll let price determine what the markets will do.

        Dec 16, 2012 16:02 AM

        Mark, I’m noting the same thing with silver stocks—–there’s one that is bottoming out as a big bowl with the 200 week MA moving up nicely and almost at it’s bowl base. I’m going to load up over the next month since if it breaks down the long-term 200 week MA it’ll tell me we have something serious happening in the PM markets. I figure my risk reward is considerable to the upside.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:07 AM

    I sell homes in Scottsdale, Arizona. Have lived in Arizona for 46 years, and actually grew up in Scottsdale, AZ.

    Any home priced resonably is sold in less than a week with multiple offers.

    Real Estate is LOCAL. Very specific area to area.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:11 AM

      Hi Terry, a lot of canucks love Arizona and have for a very long time. My grandmother went to live there in the 1940’s and one of my relatives spends a month every year in your state. What are you seeing in terms of Canadian’s investing in real estate in Arizona and how difficult is it too own and maintain a property there if you only spend 3 months out of the year. What would you suggest? DT

        Dec 15, 2012 15:42 PM

        Here’s my opinion Machine Gun.

        If a person is going to spend 1 – 3 months in the “desert” in our opinion, renting is the only way to go.

        Here is how Kathy and I came to that conclusion. First of all if you own, you pay an hoa of between $500 and $1K per months. Secondly, assessments in a community can be financially significant. Thirdly taxes, taxes and taxes. Fourthly, in the case of Kathy and I, if you are going to spend any amount of significant time in the “desert” golf is crazy expensive at the better courses.

        This year we will spend 3 – 4 weeks down there and we will rent.

          Dec 15, 2012 15:59 PM

          Say no more Al, a wink is as good as a nod. DT

          Dec 16, 2012 16:56 PM

          For a guy who “knows very little about real estate”, you sound like you’re one of the brighter bulbs in the string Al!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:31 PM

      Hi Terry….ever track where these buyers are coming from…..?and for what reason?
      thanks in advance for the follow up…..Jerry ootb

      Dec 15, 2012 15:44 PM

      Hi Terry,

      Please define, “reasonably priced”.

      Best and thanks for the input.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:11 AM

      The picture is about how the lady is looking over the gold at the large empty space beyond and wishing Gordon Brown had not sold 400 tons of it.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:30 AM

        Very observant Richard!
        Note the caption does not indicate who owns the gold the Queen is observing.
        In all likelihood the gold over which she hovers is paradoxically owned 100% by several entities. In extremes situated in the BOE it will her gold. With pictures like this you cannot blame Hugo for requesting delivery.

          Dec 15, 2012 15:42 AM

          Maybe she is trying to figure out how to keep the other “entities” gold. Maybe some of that gold happens to be the Libyan peoples’.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:30 PM

        The caption that came to mind, “This all used to be ours….”

        Dec 15, 2012 15:11 PM

        Richard – I think she`s wondering if the people will re-instate the guillotine for the in-bread followers of the malthusian philosophy that dare to wear crowns in public.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:45 PM

      ,,,,I think the picture posted has been airbushed, and irish is not visable for security reasons….the picture I was sent , clearly show IRISH.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:52 PM

        Hi Jerry, I think Irish is overwhelmed by the quantity of silver the brits have airbrushed to look like gold, how could they make silver look like gold. This is a real travesty in my opinion. DT

          Dec 15, 2012 15:03 PM

          The US dollar is not only being printed by Bernanke and company but it is also being counterfeited by foreign countries and this sort of skullduggery is not new. If you want to bring a foreign government to it’s knees cheapen their currency, after all what goes around comes around. DT

      Dec 15, 2012 15:43 PM

      Personal opinion. She knows the importance of what she is looking at.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:56 AM

    I can’t believe that none of your guests have ever referred to or talked about Luna Gold, T.LGC.
    Please do something about this, great company with tons of insider buying.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:08 AM

    Speaking of the Yukon….. Kaminak released an interesting 43-101 Mineral resource of 3.2 million oz Gold 2/3 of which in the 1.5 g/ton cutoff category.
    With the stock trading at a 52 week low of $1 when the PR hit …….the stock rallied 45% off that low.
    I agree with Al that the Yukon weather is a difficult hurdle.
    I would rather deal with a lot of snow compared to snakes (political snakes and/or the venomous type).

      Dec 15, 2012 15:50 AM

      Dennis and (Big AL)
      I am getting, from RELIABLE sources that the YUKON has major power/utilities problems that wont be solved anytime soon……maybe within SEVEN YEARS! I sold my YUKON PLAYS at a loss and just kept ETHOS GOLD.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:47 PM


        Dec 15, 2012 15:30 PM

        Marc, I thought that what John and Mike had to say was very interesting and that there certainly was truth in both of their views.

        Can’t comment on Ethos, but I am considering Northern Freegold and some others.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:44 PM

        Marc…Last week,Greg McCoach issued a sell on all Yukon plays because of the power issues.

          Dec 16, 2012 16:11 AM

          Yes he did Greg. I happen to completely disagree with him. All Yukon plays? Common!

      Dec 15, 2012 15:36 PM

      At lease we can ski when there is snow!

        Dec 15, 2012 15:11 PM

        Big AL thanks for your invite to ask you about specific companies at any time….I am sure, like I, your followers really appreciate it. As I have told you in person, your experience is VAST and it would take me an “eternity of Sundays” to acquire that type of knowledge and contacts….as always thanks and Merry X-mas to you, Kathy and the entire Korelin klan.

          Dec 15, 2012 15:24 PM

          Send em our way anytime, Marc!

            Feb 03, 2014 03:28 PM

            What a good idea to write a letter to the docotr. It takes so much courage to admit when things are hard.So glad your doing well now.Dont hate yourself tho hun. You cant help the way your mind made you feel. I think you are inspirational to admit your problems and deal with them xxxx

    Dec 15, 2012 15:03 PM

    I am less worried about power than I am the cost of the solution.
    Everything is expensive when you or on the frontier.
    That means you need to find a lot of the target metal or the only one that will make money is the guy who sold you the shovel.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:58 PM

      Yes, that is the NET effect of my comment and once again you got right to the point and/or heart of the matter! Thanks.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:27 PM

      The shovel salesman will always make money. That is a given!

      But remember, a lot of the folks buying the shovels also make a bundle!

    Dec 15, 2012 15:33 PM

    As a momentum trader who has used charts for 30 years regardless of current trendlines and indicators as your US fiscal/debt ceiling will become THE day to day noise flipping from bullish to negative fear anyone sitting on cash imo should continue to do so.

    Using pm’s as the investment example as washout bottom may unfold with prices much lower than Friday’s close setting up a great buying opp BUT why guess, why gamble?? let the markets signal a bottom is in and “momentum” has returned to the sector.

    If the lows have been put in great!, let the momentum return before taking on new positions….what are you going to miss buying your fav jr at $1.00 vs $1.20…big deal if its going to $2 as the pm’s market head higher based on the fiscal/debt issue being laid out in detail.

    There are times that events drive trends, values not chart indicators.

    Sinclair sent out an email to his followers and this is very important:
    Timing is a question of when our masters via GS decide to pull the plug on confidence in the US dollar.

    We all know GS was hired to hide Greece’s debt levels for years prior to the world catching on…..can you imagine the conversation the GS exec’s had on the palne ride home….they were handed (and paid very well to hide the debt) a cat and the bag…how much money did GS make knowing what they knew with their Euro$ positions!!!!!…they knew waht was coming and they knew when the cat (debt) was to be news.

    The US$ will have the confidence plug pulled when daboyz are well short, just as silver and gold will rise when they are well long.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:06 PM

      Just cashed out with some nice gains over the past 4 or 5 weeks with materials leveraged etf’s. Market looks like a sell right now and susceptible each time a politician opens his mouth and some good buying opportunity should come after some sharp swift moves down. Fiscal cliff not likely to be solved soon and they will drag it out until the market falls enough.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:16 PM

        Congratulations on the gains!

        Not sure that I agree about the time table for the solution of the fiscal cliff.

          Dec 15, 2012 15:41 PM

          Fiscal cliff solution should be solved by early January I think or possibly the end of the year or they could agree to extend the deadline.

            Dec 15, 2012 15:26 PM

            I am pretty much in your camp, Paul L

      Dec 15, 2012 15:24 PM

      Your comments JJ are well thought out and certainly well articulated.

      Thank you and keep them coming our way!

    Dec 15, 2012 15:16 PM

    Good show Al. A little disappointed that no interview with Fred Lundgren from KCAA, 1050 AM in Loma Linda, California is to be heard.

    BTW, is Mr. Deist going to give us the wisdom necessary to fix the country or will he simply be the in-house austrian economics guru once he becomes co-host?

      Dec 15, 2012 15:19 PM

      I have tried to reach Fred Lundgren to no avail. If you can reach him, I am happy to have him on the show. He appears to be a pretty insightful guy.

      Regarding Jeff, no he will be much more that the in-house austrian economics guru.

        Dec 15, 2012 15:59 PM

        I sent a message to him through his website:

        Not sure what will show up as his address if he responds. Good luck.

          Dec 16, 2012 16:10 AM

          I would very much like to chat with him.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:33 PM

    Hi Big Al,
    Take away the 10 Commandments out of society, and replace it with big government, you get a sick society, and bad things happen. Best to you and your work.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:26 PM

      Now that, Keep Stacking, is absolutely true. Thank you.

      Dec 15, 2012 15:37 PM

      KS…great comments….have you read, Dan Norcine at KWN….his comments are very close to yours….. ” a moral decline is the problem”, he states…..,,,,which I agree with both of you…..

        Dec 16, 2012 16:13 AM

        You bet we have a huge moral decline, In the Box. We have been saying that for years. And by “we” I mean everyone on this site!

    Dec 15, 2012 15:16 PM

    Many governments that are anti-american are printing the US dollar and adding to the fiscal cliff. C’mon, we know the game and how it is played by not just the western world. First word buy, second word precious metal, third word……………. DT

    […] management as well as dealing with renters without jobs. … Go here to see the original: Far Eastern and Institutional Gold Purchases and Investing « Korelin … ← From $250 to Million Dollar Real Estate Business – Property […]

      Dec 16, 2012 16:10 AM

      Sorry, I don’t understand your comment. Please clarify. Thank you.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:23 PM

    Update from expected returns this week:
    The Fed announced today that it will add another $45 billion a month in Treasury purchases, which was not all that surprising. The bigger news is that the Fed set a target of 6.5% unemployment and 2.5% inflation, which goes way beyond their original mandate. Anyway, I would like to wish the Fed the best of luck- the only way these targets are hit in the next decade or so is if they manipulate statistics even more. The outlook for the future is stagflation: higher unemployment, slower growth, and higher inflation.

    The entire focus on lower interest rates has proven to be flawed. Money is not flowing to businesses because of tightening standards and higher spreads for banks, which allows banks to curtail loans. And those businesses that have the capacity to borrow money aren’t borrowing because of the uncertainty over tax rates and government policy. It appears the solution to our debt problems will be higher taxes for at least a portion of the population, which essentially means uncertainty will grow. This is not a problem that can be fixed by doing more of the same, but that’s exactly what we’re doing.

    As for asset movements, the pattern for now has been lower interest rates and higher stock prices. I suppose this has confirmed the flawed notion that lower interest rates mean higher stock prices. The Fed is indeed keeping rates low by purchasing bonds, which frees up capital to chase gains elsewhere. The thing is, when there is no bid on bonds (higher interest rates), this will free up even more capital, which means stocks will rise at a faster rate. I suspect that when rates invariably move higher, stocks will rise too, which will dumbfound people in the early stages. You will probably hear a lot of intelligent people calling stocks a bubble.

    A braindead “solution” to the fiscal cliff should be coming before the end of the year. Once I know for sure what the government’s plan is, I can tell you with a greater deal of confidence where we’re headed. But at this point we’re talking about degrees and shades of ineptitude.

    Dec 15, 2012 15:56 PM

    I don’t understand the resistance against gun controls on AUTOMATIC weaponry?

      Dec 15, 2012 15:25 PM

      I have an aunt that broke her shoulder falling from a bicycle.
      She was informed that she had to wear a helmet.
      Well on an unfortunate occasion on a bicycle ride her helmet loosened and blocked her vision. She side swiped a parked car and fell to street crushing her left shoulder.
      The device that was to protect her caused her harm.
      It is similar to the injuries caused by airbags in fender benders.
      But for the safety device there would have been no and/or less injury.
      Granted there are instances when bicycle helmets and airbags have provided safety.
      However, it is also true the intended safety causes inconvenience, increases risk taking, adds costs and present their own danger.
      The Second Amendment was drafted with a purpose.
      Past try and understand that gun control laws have their own unintended consequences.
      The desire of some is to control the populace.
      Ironically in the interest of liberty maybe those taking antidepressants should be institutionalized for their own and others safety. The psychiatrist who prescribes these drugs with the ominous warning the pills are delivered with is engaged in an activity the equivalent of playing Russian roulette.
      I don’t understand the resistance against investigating the unacceptable risks antidepressant pharmaceuticals present.

        Dec 16, 2012 16:57 AM

        You don’t need an automatic, or AK47 to hunt deer, or kill an intruder in your house. Just sayin.
        I don’t see the link between antidepressants and gun violence. If anything, the guy that did the shoot up, NEEDED antidepressants and wasn’t ON THEM.
        A large portion of the population is on antidepressants. Perhaps a better question is why? Is it our captialistic society where money talks (and buys elections)?

          Dec 16, 2012 16:13 AM

          In many cases some juries wonder why the once antidepressant dosed patient is on trial on not the Pharmaceutical Company executives. As far as your comment that the shooter “NEEDED antidepressants and wasn’t ON THEM” you would be correct only if the shooter was never on psychotropic drugs as the acute instances of increased violence are acute in the first 90 days and during periods of dose variation including but not limited to discontinuation with significant residual effects. Below is a detailed study in direct contradiction to your observation “I don’t see the link between antidepressants and gun violence.” The effect is more accurately described as antidepressants have a direct link to violence in general.
          When you look at the below case study the violence evidenced is not limited to guns violence. Multiple judges in the UK, Australia and US conclude but for the drugs the gruesome heinous acts would not have occurred. Remember pastexpiry the case studies were presented in a court of law with the Drug Companies well represented. The most damning evidence is the disclosures of the dangers the drug companies were well aware of but were downplayed in approval efforts and mass marketing efforts.
          We are a country that is not just over financed we are also tragically over medicated.

          The 2nd amendment was about the citizenry protecting itself against an oppressive government. The Second Amendment had little to do with hunting deer.

          Violence and Antidepressants a list:

          April 16, 2007 Cho Seung Hui, the Virginia Tech shooter who killed 32 fellow students in a shooting rampage, was taking antidepressant drugs.

          April 20, 1999 Eric Harris, was rejected by Marine Corps recruiters days before the Columbine High School massacre because he was under a doctor’s care and had been prescribed Luvox, an antidepressant medication. Reports allege Dylan Klebold took at least un-prescribed antidepressants but his medical records remained sealed …..13 killed and 23 wounded.

          September 28, 2006: Bailey, Colorado: Duane Morrison, 53, entered Platte Canyon High School and shot and killed one girl, and sexually assaulted 6 others. Antidepressants were found in his vehicle.

          March 21, 2005: Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minnesota: 16-year-old Native American Jeff Weise was under the influence of the antidepressant Prozac when he shot and killed nine people and wounding five before committing suicide.

          April 10, 2001: Wahluke, Washington: 16-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to his high school, and held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage while on a high dose of the antidepressant Effexor
          March 22, 2001: El Cajon, California: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman was on two antidepressants, Effexor and Celexa, when he opened fire at his California high school wounding five.

          March 7, 2000: Williamsport, Pennsylvania: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was on the antidepressant Prozac when she blasted away at fellow students in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, wounding one.

          May 20, 1999: Conyers, Georgia: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with a mix of antidepressants when he opened fire on and wounded 6 of his classmates.

          The week before Columbine
          April 16, 1999: Notus, Idaho: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school narrowly missing students; he was taking a mix of antidepressants.
          The year before Columbine
          May 21, 1998: Springfield, Oregon: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his own parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 22. Kinkel had been on Prozac.

          I currently have a file on my desk of a once favored client whose cause of death is listed as “intra oral gunshot wound”. The client was recently prescribed Celexa for minor symptoms. The link to anti-depressants and violence is very clear. But some all too obvious things are consciously ignored.

          Google the below and you will find a horrible list of mothers killing their children. The common link is the mothers were on antidepressants.
          The Bitter Pill – SSRI Stories: Violence, Murder, Suicide – Mothers & Antidepressants

            Dec 16, 2012 16:28 AM

            Could there be a link between the underreporting of antidepressants causing psychotic violent episodes and the fact that Big Pharma is the #1 advertiser in TV News?

            Dec 16, 2012 16:57 AM

            One could easily come to that conclusion, Dennis M!

            Dec 16, 2012 16:44 AM

            I cut and pasted some of the above list of tragic shootings from:

            The article states

            “A growing number of school shootings and other shooting rampages were committed by individuals under the influence of, or in withdrawal from, psychiatric drugs known to cause mania, psychosis, violence and even homicide. Consider this list of 13 massacres over the past decade or so, resulting in 54 dead and 105 wounded – and these are just the ones where the psychiatric drugs are known. In other cases, medical records were sealed or autopsy reports not made public or, in some cases, toxicology tests were either not done to test for psychiatric drugs or not disclosed to the public. But this is what we do know about the mental health “treatment” of those who committed these acts of violence:
            •Dekalb, Illinois – February 14, 2008: 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 16 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amount of Xanax in his system.
            •Omaha, Nebraska – December 5, 2007: 19-year-old Robert Hawkins killed eight people and wounded five before committing suicide in an Omaha mall. Hawkins’ friend told CNN that the gunman was on antidepressants, and autopsy results confirmed he was under the influence of the “anti-anxiety” drug Valium.
            •Jokela, Finland – November 7, 2007: 18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School in southern Finland, then committed suicide.
            •Cleveland, Ohio – October 10, 2007: 14-year-old Asa Coon stormed through his school with a gun in each hand, shooting and wounding four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon had been placed on the antidepressant Trazodone.

            The remainder of the list is above………..

            Dec 16, 2012 16:57 AM

            That is definitely something that I will do some research on and you can count on a couple of upcoming segments on this issue.

            Thank you, Dennis M!

            Dec 16, 2012 16:02 AM

            Geeze, Dennis M, it is Sunday morning and Kathy and I are in Seattle on our way to her retarded brother’s annual Christmas Party. It is grey and wet outside our hotel. Maybe Big Al needs some of this medication! 9Okay a poor joke!)

            By the way I referenced Kathy’s brother and I want to stress that he is also my brother-in-law obviously and I am in absolutely no way ashamed of him.

          Dec 16, 2012 16:03 AM

          Couple of very great points, PastExpiry-dot-com!

          Thank you.

            Dec 16, 2012 16:17 PM

            I admit I do stand corrected on the link between antidepressants and violence.
            Big Pharma is a huge topic all unto itself. Sometimes I am amazed that they haven’t reversed the rule of their commercials having to list the side effects of their drugs. I love the one for Chantix which helps you quit smoking but has the possible side effect of sudden death! Oh well, as long as it is not a long prolonged death, I guess that’s okay…

      Dec 16, 2012 16:08 AM

      Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about guns to comment other than to say that I have to believe that some of the weapons out there are like having a tank in your drive way. That is obviously unnecessary. I also shot a machine gun in Arizona a number of months back and I can certainly see a law against keeping them in you home. Hunting rifles and normal handguns should always be protected by the Constitution.

        Dec 16, 2012 16:51 AM

        Constitutionally the Second amendment was more about the citizens’ aggregate protection against an oppressive government. It was less about home and personal defense than it was about the anticipation that governments tend to become oppressive and the citizens needed balancing recourse. In 1790s early America debated vigorously whether or not a national standing army would be allowed to remain. The Second Amendment was an allowance for a standing army to remain post Shay’s Rebellion. This was the context of the Jefferson quote so often referenced in this forum:
        “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
        You then have to understand the army of the day had muskets and the farmers had muskets. The Second Amendment was one of the many checks and balances framers put in place to keep government in check. This was a day where self-defense was a given. People dueled to protect honor. There was no need to protect your right to hunt or carry a side arm as it was accepted a given like you had a right to breathe the air around you. It could be logically argued we have more of a right to a machine gun than we do a pistol. It may be counter-intuitive but it is true the Second Amendment was intended to keep government in check.
        Stick with this AL……. a 1939 case about basically a sawed off shotgun:
        United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) – The Court stated in part:
        “In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a ‘shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length’ at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense.”

        The court reasoned that if the shotgun was commonly used militarily it would have been afforded greater protection…..not less as popular opinion commonly believes. Constitutionally, it is correct to say that the more the weapon is commonly used in a military setting the more 2nd Amendment protection given to the citizen to own said weapon. We have more of a right to own a machine than we have a right to own a pea shooter.

          Dec 16, 2012 16:03 PM

          ditto dennis…..”on we have more of a right……”, we need to be more concerned with the intent of the UN….on American soil, and the banksters attempt to use the UN, to disarm the American people…..this is a much deeper issue , than anyone wants to talk about…..this is like taking to someone about gold or silver…..if you do not know, you need to get educated……

            Dec 16, 2012 16:05 PM

            dennis… expression is not directed at you,,,but, for the control people, who do not have a clue….as to what will happen if all the guns are taken away….

            Dec 16, 2012 16:25 PM

            Jerry you typed ‘you need to get educated’.
            I agree completely but do not rely on McGraw Hill Public Schools and the vast majority of Colleges and Universities.
            Our economy is plagued with mal-investment.
            Our schools are plagued with miss-education and propaganda.
            To become educated today one needs to understand how to think critically and find the
            answers to questions independently.
            The answers put forth to all too many questions in today’s education system are the equivalent of a bowling alley gutter taking the misguided to a certain ‘collective’ place.

            Dec 17, 2012 17:50 AM

            “Think critically”? Now, there is a novel thought!

            Dec 16, 2012 16:16 PM

            Dennis… are exactly correct on education….my kids have been home schooled, so, you see where I am coming from….by, getting educated, is doing your own homework and reading , and rely on no one for any one thought…The colleges are nothing more than money machines,at this point….to put the unaware in bondage.

            Dec 16, 2012 16:29 PM

            I have grown kind of fond of the collective gutter ball analogy.
            It might have to be repeated.

          Dec 16, 2012 16:32 PM

          Correcting conclusion: We have more of a right to own a machine gun than we have a right to own a pea shooter.

            Dec 16, 2012 16:49 PM

            Give Big Al the” pea shooter”, he needs to start with something small, so ,he can get use to his constitional rights…..

            Dec 17, 2012 17:41 AM

            Oh I will tell you, In the Box, Big Al is very aware of his CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!

    Dec 16, 2012 16:35 AM

    Al – Thanks for covering companies on your show that are not sponsors. I am an investor in Alexco Resources and it was nice to have them covered during the segment on the Yukon. One other company in the Yukon that I am invested in that is a “blue chip” and early mover is Kaminak Gold Corp. Kaminak just came out with their first ever resource estimate with gold in all categories of over 3 million ounces. Would be great to get some commentary on this one as well if you have time. I am biased, but feel both companies are undervalued as is much of the better companies in the gold and silver resource sector markets.

    Dec 17, 2012 17:15 AM

    No more freebies from TRADER ROG. If you want any info you have to pay $30 a month for it.
    Sadly I never found it useful anyway. Manage to figure things out for myselt with many contributors on KITCO and my own trading experience.
    Personally, I am keeping out of SILVER until at least January.
    I have talked myself into it going to $29.90
    Have a Good Christmas all of you and lets hope we can make some money next year.

      Dec 17, 2012 17:14 PM

      Always here for you Prof Martin and I would assume that the feeling is mutual.


      Big Al