Mining Companies and Markets

July 11, 2015

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    Jul 11, 2015 11:52 AM

    Great show – I bought a little more gold yesterday…couldnt help myself. It is just so dang EXPENSIVE RIIGHT NOW!!!…:).

      Jul 11, 2015 11:57 AM

      Tongue firmly placed in the cheek..wink..wink..wink

      Jul 11, 2015 11:46 AM

      SD Marc – not a bad place to accumulate more for the long haul. Personally I could still see gold test the 1131 area of support in the mid-term, and then possibly break lower (but that would be an even better spot to average into a larger position).

      May you have a prosperous week ahead!

        Jul 11, 2015 11:46 AM

        ALWAYS enjoy your input and comments Shad – ALL THE BEST!

        Jul 11, 2015 11:45 AM

        We too always enjoy and learn from your input, Shad.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:29 AM

          Thanks SD Marc and Big Al. Have a great weekend.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:48 AM

        FOR THE RECORD………SOME of my sources are short of supply ……on gold…..just saying.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:55 AM

          I will cheer the day when the physical demand overwhelms the paper boys, and becomes more key in setting the pricing – not just paper markets. Unfortunately, at this time, the physical shortages don’t seem to impact the prices, and the futures markets and analysis of COT reports that shape the direction of where prices are headed.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:44 AM


    Jul 11, 2015 11:56 AM

    I know its early morning – woke up hungry – so I had a some cranberry with wheat cereal spriinkled with fresh blueberries…yummy….now add BIG AL and a little Grant Williams..doesnt get much better does it?? Grant is one smart dude. Great great presenter, lecturer!

      Jul 11, 2015 11:28 AM

      The real problem with excessive debt is the proposed solution; namely increased taxation.

      The correct solution of having excessive debt in proportion to GDP is obviously to reduce debt or increase GDP. Our economoron leaders are choosing to reduce debt by increasing taxation, which, in my opinion, is precisely the wrong approach.
      Increasing taxation is a reasonable solution if and only if it does not impact GDP growth and when taxation is already high, raising taxation will reduce GDP growth.
      The correct solution, and the only correct solution, in my opinion, is to reduce social spending as a way to reduce debt. History is replete with examples of Keynsian theory mis-applied. His theory, as I understand it was for increasing Government spending during the bad times, such as recession, BUT to decrease spending during the good times. Governments never do the second part; decreasing spending.
      The consequence of never decreasing spending is, in fact, to slow GDP growth. This has the opposite of the desired intention.
      There is a difference between increased taxation rates and increased taxation collection. Indeed at high levels of taxation, taxation collection can often be achieved by reducing the taxation rate as opposed to increasing the taxation rate; something those in power simply do not understand. Meanwhile the world economy seems to be in the process of being destroyed by power-hungry politicians buying votes by increasing social spending, regardless of the damage they do.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:46 AM

        ditto on the INCREASED TAXATION…………….

          Jul 11, 2015 11:49 AM

          TAX RATE…………..1861………..1%

            Jul 11, 2015 11:51 AM

            WE NEED TO RETRACE HISTORY………a renewing of OLD traditions……..ONE PERCENTERS in reverse.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:29 AM

            Frank : Past income tax rates before WW2 are not comparable . The us government used to collect large taxes from government land sales . Almost all the land past the Allegany mountains was sold piece by piece over about 80 years to people who wanted to buy farmland in Alabama, Ohio , Indiana , Iowa etc. Also custom dutys were extremly high in those days . The current fed incometax is not to high or to low, its just not being enforced . best to you all S

            Jul 11, 2015 11:13 PM

            But you must agree, Mr. Hamilton, that there are much fairer taxation methods out there. Steve Forbes’ ideas as an example.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:58 AM

            “income tax rate before ww2 are not comparable”….

            Well, then let us compare federal income tax form after WW2……….I have an OLD FEDERAL TAX FORM DATED 1948…. which my dad submitted,.. which was the size of a 3×5 card and the rate was a lot lower than 35%. 🙂

            Jul 11, 2015 11:08 PM

            FFM – I’m on board with the plan to bring back the 1% tax rate. Where’s the petition to sign?

            Jul 11, 2015 11:15 PM

            Scott………I think most of the land grant govt. sales were after about 1770- and before the civil war.(1860). Most of the grants for territory sold west of the CUMBERLAND GAP, (Tenn.) was Territory held by the FRENCH and Indians, was FRENCH AND INDIAN TERRITORY. Large tract were in deed sold or granted to pioneers to settle the land, but, a lot of scalping took place the late 1770 to 1816………Scalping by the govt, and scalping by the Indiana…..

            Jul 11, 2015 11:16 PM

            correction……Indiana to INDIANS……(white men also , I think started the scalping)

            Jul 11, 2015 11:28 PM

            GENERAL NOTE……..CONCERNING THE 1% income tax at the time of the CIVIL WAR , which was 1%……..that was for the WAR, and not a continued practice…..but, then that would bring us up to the ACT OF 1871…………

          Jul 11, 2015 11:06 AM

          The real lesson one needs to take in from Glen Down’s section is of course be careful with stored data, but ALSO never trust anything any Government does, that will be done competently.Governments may be a necessary evil; but smaller government is Much better than gigantic wasteful structures that are ever increasing devourers of wealth of the people.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:47 AM

            Agree about smaller government, Professor.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:46 AM

        Great comment, Professor

    Jul 11, 2015 11:18 AM

    Agree absolutely SD M – Grant Williams always exquisitely clear. I love (hate) the picture of markets refusing to correct being like a skier who, head down accelerates towards the debt overhang, and how when it comes to finance especially ‘human beings are inherently fallible’!

      Jul 11, 2015 11:47 AM

      Agreed that Grant Williams is a sharp guy. Great debt skier analogy Rev!

      Jul 11, 2015 11:47 AM

      Yes – Reverand Grant is actually very, very humorous too……just great presentation/people skills…I wish I could go have a pint with him -OOPS…I dont drink anymore…:(

        Jul 11, 2015 11:22 AM

        Absolutely. There’s a number of presenters I’d like to sit down and swig a pint or two with (or just a water) and get their “off the record” thoughts and share a good laugh. Cheers!

          Jul 11, 2015 11:48 AM

          A number of us will be in New Orleans the last week of October, Shad.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:31 AM

            Yes, I’m thinking about that conference, but we’ll have just returned from the West coast a few weeks before that. Cheers!

            Jul 11, 2015 11:14 PM

            Are you planning on visiting Seattle on your trip to the West Coast?

            Jul 12, 2015 12:56 PM

            Yes in September.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:48 AM

        And, Marc, you definitely don’t want to even think about starting again!

    Jul 11, 2015 11:28 AM

    For ‘ human beings being inherently fallible’, read brain-dead…..

      Jul 11, 2015 11:04 AM

      Great video . . . incredible!

        Jul 11, 2015 11:26 AM

        I shook my head and laughed and then felt really odd that the perceptions are what they are. Imagine doing that experiment in China or India?

      Jul 11, 2015 11:54 AM

      Mark Dice is very very entertaining – so sad….so very very very sad Reverend….:(!!

      Jul 11, 2015 11:50 AM

      Being totally uninformed is really pathetic isn’t it. Unfortunately, this phenomenon relates to more than the price of silver.

        Jul 12, 2015 12:08 PM


        No kidding hey? I agree wholeheartedly.

        Jul 13, 2015 13:44 AM

        ditto …….BIG OWL………..

      Jul 11, 2015 11:46 PM

      That guy does those vids at that coin shop regularly.
      Might be an idea to take a stroll.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:01 AM

    This new Oban company will be interesting.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:14 AM

    Quantitative Easing may appear to give a beneficial result such as producing a bubble in some price of something, but in as much as it is not controllable, it is one of the MOST STUPID products of utter incompetency of power.
    It is wasteful of resources, that because of the delayed consequences of excessive debt appears much less destructive than it actually is. What, in fact, could be more harmful than the eventual destruction of a total economy?

      Jul 11, 2015 11:49 AM

      Could NOT have said it better myself- well, well done kind sir!…:)

      Jul 11, 2015 11:36 AM

      QE is intended to indebt the nation.
      I don’t think its incompetence, its intentional for specific results.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:52 AM

        Very thoughtful point, heathen.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:01 AM

          On the first QE, instead of bailing banks and auto companies, they could have chosen to give a million to anyone 55 and older, on the condition their mortgage was paid off, they buy a new car and retire for a minimum number of years.

          Banks get paid, (bailed out) auto sales go thru the roof, (bailed out) and 3 million jobs open up. 100% employment.

          This would have happened at a fraction of the cost if I recall.

          QE is designed specifically to indebt the nation.

          Far from takes a genius to see the option best for the nation and its economy.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:02 AM

            Morning heathen,

            You make an interesting point.


            Jul 11, 2015 11:11 AM

            Heathen, if QE in the US is specifically intended to make the nation endebted, what would you suggest is the point? I.e. Why is the US having its debt increased by QE, in your opinion?

            Jul 12, 2015 12:43 PM

            Financiers and corporations with a mainline to gov’t $ wanting to suck America’s blood dry (i.e. transfer all its’ wealth into their pockets). No? Seems pretty obvious.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:12 AM

          To be honest I have no idea why people refuse to see whats happening and by whom, other than the university of Minneapolis study showing humans are “fact resistant”.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:17 AM

            Ultimately CFS it is to gain the resources of the nation.

            2 people explain how its done and why, James Perloff and John Perkins.

            They work independently of one another, Perkins actually did the work for banks in many nations, his book “Confessions of an economic hitman”

            Jul 11, 2015 11:25 AM

            Greece is being ‘hit’, there’s no doubt about it,” exclaims John Perkins, author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, noting that “[Indebted countries] become servants to what I call the corporatocracy … today we have a global empire, and it’s not an American empire. It’s not a national empire… It’s a corporate empire, and the big corporations rule.”

            John Perkins, author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, discusses how Greece and other eurozone countries have become the new victims of “economic hit men.”

            John Perkins is no stranger to making confessions. His well-known book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, revealed how international organizations such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank, while publicly professing to “save” suffering countries and economies, instead pull a bait-and-switch on their governments: promising startling growth, gleaming new infrastructure projects and a future of economic prosperity – all of which would occur if those countries borrow huge loans from those organizations. Far from achieving runaway economic growth and success, however, these countries instead fall victim to a crippling and unsustainable debt burden.

            That’s where the “economic hit men” come in: seemingly ordinary men, with ordinary backgrounds, who travel to these countries and impose the harsh austerity policies prescribed by the IMF and World Bank as “solutions” to the economic hardship they are now experiencing. Men like Perkins were trained to squeeze every last drop of wealth and resources from these sputtering economies, and continue to do so to this day. In this interview, which aired on Dialogos Radio, Perkins talks about how Greece and the eurozone have become the new victims of such “economic hit men.”

            Michael Nevradakis: In your book, you write about how you were, for many years, a so-called “economic hit man.” Who are these economic hit men, and what do they do?

            John Perkins: Essentially, my job was to identify countries that had resources that our corporations want, and that could be things like oil – or it could be markets – it could be transportation systems. There’re so many different things. Once we identified these countries, we arranged huge loans to them, but the money would never actually go to the countries; instead it would go to our own corporations to build infrastructure projects in those countries, things like power plants and highways that benefitted a few wealthy people as well as our own corporations, but not the majority of people who couldn’t afford to buy into these things, and yet they were left holding a huge debt, very much like what Greece has today, a phenomenal debt.

            “[Indebted countries] become servants to what I call the corporatocracy … today we have a global empire, and it’s not an American empire. It’s not a national empire … It’s a corporate empire, and the big corporations rule.”

            And once [they were] bound by that debt, we would go back, usually in the form of the IMF – and in the case of Greece today, it’s the IMF and the EU [European Union] – and make tremendous demands on the country: increase taxes, cut back on spending, sell public sector utilities to private companies, things like power companies and water systems, transportation systems, privatize those, and basically become a slave to us, to the corporations, to the IMF, in your case to the EU, and basically, organizations like the World Bank, the IMF, the EU, are tools of the big corporations, what I call the “corporatocracy.”

            And before turning specifically to the case of Greece, let’s talk a little bit more about the manner in which these economic hit men and these organizations like the IMF operate. You mentioned, of course, how they go in and they work to get these countries into massive debt, that money goes in and then goes straight back out. You also mentioned in your book these overly optimistic growth forecasts that are sold to the politicians of these countries but which really have no resemblance to reality.

            Exactly, we’d show that if these investments were made in things like electric energy systems that the economy would grow at phenomenally high rates. The fact of the matter is, when you invest in these big infrastructure projects, you do see economic growth, however, most of that growth reflects the wealthy getting wealthier and wealthier; it doesn’t reflect the majority of the people, and we’re seeing that in the United States today.

            “In the case of Greece, my reaction was that ‘Greece is being hit.’ There’s no question about it.”

            For example, where we can show economic growth, growth in the GDP, but at the same time unemployment may be going up or staying level, and foreclosures on houses may be going up or staying stable. These numbers tend to reflect the very wealthy, since they have a huge percentage of the economy, statistically speaking. Nevertheless, we would show that when you invest in these infrastructure projects, your economy does grow, and yet, we would even show it growing much faster than it ever conceivably would, and that was only used to justify these horrendous, incredibly debilitating loans.

            Is there a common theme with respect to the countries typically targeted? Are they, for instance, rich in resources or do they typically possess some other strategic importance to the powers that be?

            Yes, all of those. Resources can take many different forms: One is the material resources like minerals or oil; another resource is strategic location; another resource is a big marketplace or cheap labor. So, different countries make different requirements. I think what we’re seeing in Europe today isn’t any different, and that includes Greece.

            What happens once these countries that are targeted are indebted? How do these major powers, these economic hit men, these international organizations come back and get their “pound of flesh,” if you will, from the countries that are heavily in debt?

            By insisting that the countries adopt policies that will sell their publicly owned utility companies, water and sewage systems, maybe schools, transportation systems, even jails, to the big corporations. Privatize, privatize. Allow us to build military bases on their soil. Many things can be done, but basically, they become servants to what I call the corporatocracy. You have to remember that today we have a global empire, and it’s not an American empire. It’s not a national empire. It doesn’t help the American people very much. It’s a corporate empire, and the big corporations rule. They control the politics of the United States, and to a large degree they control a great deal of the policies of countries like China, around the world.

            John, looking specifically now at the case of Greece, of course you mentioned your belief that the country has become the victim of economic hit men and these international organizations . . . what was your reaction when you first heard about the crisis in Greece and the measures that were to be implemented in the country?

            I’ve been following Greece for a long time. I was on Greek television. A Greek film company did a documentary called “Apology of an Economic Hit Man,” and I also spent a lot of time in Iceland and in Ireland. I was invited to Iceland to help encourage the people there to vote on a referendum not to repay their debts, and I did that and encouraged them not to, and they did vote no, and as a result, Iceland is doing quite well now economically compared to the rest of Europe. Ireland, on the other hand: I tried to do the same thing there, but the Irish people apparently voted against the referendum, though there’s been many reports that there was a lot of corruption.

            “That’s part of the game: convince people that they’re wrong, that they’re inferior. The corporatocracy is incredibly good at that.”

            In the case of Greece, my reaction was that “Greece is being hit.” There’s no question about it. Sure, Greece made mistakes, your leaders made some mistakes, but the people didn’t really make the mistakes, and now the people are being asked to pay for the mistakes made by their leaders, often in cahoots with the big banks. So, people make tremendous amounts of money off of these so-called “mistakes,” and now, the people who didn’t make the mistakes are being asked to pay the price. That’s consistent around the world: We’ve seen it in Latin America. We’ve seen it in Asia. We’ve seen it in so many places around the world.

            This leads directly to the next question I had: From my observation, at least in Greece, the crisis has been accompanied by an increase in self-blame or self-loathing; there’s this sentiment in Greece that many people have that the country failed, that the people failed . . . there’s hardly even protest in Greece anymore, and of course there’s a huge “brain drain” – there’s a lot of people that are leaving the country. Does this all seem familiar to you when comparing to other countries in which you’ve had personal experience?

            Sure, that’s part of the game: convince people that they’re wrong, that they’re inferior. The corporatocracy is incredibly good at that, whether it is back during the Vietnam War, convincing the world that the North Vietnamese were evil; today it’s the Muslims. It’s a policy of them versus us: We are good. We are right. We do everything right. You’re wrong. And in this case, all of this energy has been directed at the Greek people to say “you’re lazy; you didn’t do the right thing; you didn’t follow the right policies,” when in actuality, an awful lot of the blame needs to be laid on the financial community that encouraged Greece to go down this route. And I would say that we have something very similar going on in the United States, where people here are being led to believe that because their house is being foreclosed that they were stupid, that they bought the wrong houses; they overspent themselves.

            “We know that austerity does not work in these situations.”

            The fact of the matter is their bankers told them to do this, and around the world, we’ve come to trust bankers – or we used to. In the United States, we never believed that a banker would tell us to buy a $500,000 house if in fact we could really only afford a $300,000 house. We thought it was in the bank’s interest not to foreclose. But that changed a few years ago, and bankers told people who they knew could only afford a $300,000 house to buy a $500,000 house.

            “Tighten your belt, in a few years that house will be worth a million dollars; you’ll make a lot of money” . . . in fact, the value of the house went down; the market dropped out; the banks foreclosed on these houses, repackaged them, and sold them again. Double whammy. The people were told, “you were stupid; you were greedy; why did you buy such an expensive house?” But in actuality, the bankers told them to do this, and we’ve grown up to believe that we can trust our bankers. Something very similar on a larger scale happened in so many countries around the world, including Greece.

            In Greece, the traditional major political parties are, of course, overwhelmingly in favor of the harsh austerity measures that have been imposed, but also we see that the major business and media interests are also overwhelmingly in support. Does this surprise you in the slightest?

            No, it doesn’t surprise me and yet it’s ridiculous because austerity does not work. We’ve proven that time and time again, and perhaps the greatest proof was the opposite, in the United States during the Great Depression, when President Roosevelt initiated all these policies to put people back to work, to pump money into the economy. That’s what works. We know that austerity does not work in these situations.

            “What I didn’t realize during any of this period was how much corporatocracy does not want a united Europe.”

            We also have to understand that, in the United States for example, over the past 40 years, the middle class has been on the decline on a real dollar basis, while the economy has been increasing. In fact, that’s pretty much happened around the world. Globally, the middle class has been in decline. Big business needs to recognize – it hasn’t yet, but it needs to recognize – that that serves nobody’s long-term interest, that the middle class is the market. And if the middle class continues to be in decline, whether it’s in Greece or the United States or globally, ultimately businesses will pay the price; they won’t have customers. Henry Ford once said: “I want to pay all my workers enough money so they can go out and buy Ford cars.” That’s a very good policy. That’s wise. This austerity program moves in the opposite direction and it’s a foolish policy.

            In your book, which was written in 2004, you expressed hope that the euro would serve as a counterweight to American global hegemony, to the hegemony of the US dollar. Did you ever expect that we would see in the European Union what we are seeing today, with austerity that is not just in Greece but also in Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, and also several other countries as well?

            What I didn’t realize during any of this period was how much corporatocracy does not want a united Europe. We need to understand this. They may be happy enough with the euro, with one currency – they are happy to a certain degree by having it united enough that markets are open – but they do not want standardized rules and regulations. Let’s face it, big corporations, the corporatocracy, take advantage of the fact that some countries in Europe have much more lenient tax laws, some have much more lenient environmental and social laws, and they can pit them against each other.

            “[Rafael Correa] … has to be aware that if you stand up too strongly against the system, if the economic hit men are not happy, if they don’t get their way, then the jackals will come in and assassinate you or overthrow you in a coup.”

            What would it be like for big corporations if they didn’t have their tax havens in places like Malta or other places? I think we need to recognize that what the corporatocracy saw at first, the solid euro, a European union seemed like a very good thing, but as it moved forward, they could see that what was going to happen was that social and environmental laws and regulations were going to be standardized. They didn’t want that, so to a certain degree what’s been going on in Europe has been because the corporatocracy wants Europe to fail, at least on a certain level.

            You wrote about the examples of Ecuador and other countries, which after the collapse of oil prices in the late ’80s found themselves with huge debts and this, of course, led to massive austerity measures . . . sounds all very similar to what we are now seeing in Greece. How did the people of Ecuador and other countries that found themselves in similar situations eventually resist?

            Ecuador elected a pretty remarkable president, Rafael Correa, who has a PhD in economics from a United States university. He understands the system, and he understood that Ecuador took on these debts back when I was an economic hit man and the country was ruled by a military junta that was under the control of the CIA and the US. That junta took on these huge debts, put Ecuador in deep debt; the people didn’t agree to that. When Rafael Correa was democratically elected, he immediately said, “We’re not paying these debts; the people did not take on these debts; maybe the IMF should pay the debts and maybe the junta, which of course was long gone – moved to Miami or someplace – should pay the debts, maybe John Perkins and the other economic hit men should pay the debts, but the people shouldn’t.”

            And since then, he’s been renegotiating and bringing the debts way down and saying, “We might be willing to pay some of them.” That was a very smart move; it reflected similar things that had been done at different times in places like Brazil and Argentina, and more recently, following that model, Iceland, with great success. I have to say that Correa has had some real setbacks since then . . . he, like so many presidents, has to be aware that if you stand up too strongly against the system, if the economic hit men are not happy, if they don’t get their way, then the jackals will come in and assassinate you or overthrow you in a coup. There was an attempted coup against him; there was a successful coup in a country not too far away from him, Honduras, because these presidents stood up.

            We have to realize that these presidents are in very, very vulnerable positions, and ultimately we the people have to stand up, because leaders can only do a certain amount. Today, in many places, leaders are not just vulnerable; it doesn’t take a bullet to bring down a leader anymore. A scandal – a sex scandal, a drug scandal – can bring down a leader. We saw that happen to Bill Clinton, to Strauss-Kahn of the IMF; we’ve seen it happen a number of times. These leaders are very aware that they are in very vulnerable positions: If they stand up or go against the status quo too strongly, they’re going to be taken out, one way or another. They’re aware of that, and it behooves we the people to really stand up for our own rights.

            You mentioned the recent example of Iceland . . . other than the referendum that was held, what other measures did the country adopt to get out of this spiral of austerity and to return to growth and to a much more positive outlook for the country?

            It’s been investing money in programs that put people back to work and it’s also been putting on trial some of the bankers that caused the problems, which has been a big uplift in terms of morale for the people. So Iceland has launched some programs that say “No, we’re not going to go into austerity; we’re not going to pay back these loans; we’re going to put the money into putting people back to work,” and ultimately that’s what drives an economy, people working. If you’ve got high unemployment, like you do in Greece today, extremely high unemployment, the country’s always going to be in trouble. You’ve got to bring down that unemployment, you’ve got to hire people. It’s so important to put people back to work. Your unemployment is about 28 percent; it’s staggering, and disposable income has dropped 40 percent and it’s going to continue to drop if you have high unemployment. So, the important thing for an economy is to get the employment up and get disposable income back up, so that people will invest in their country and in goods and services.

            In closing, what message would you like to share with the people of Greece, as they continue to experience and to live through the very harsh results of the austerity policies that have been implemented in the country for the past three years?

            I want to draw upon Greece’s history. You’re a proud, strong country, a country of warriors. The mythology of the warrior to some degree comes out of Greece, and so does democracy! And to realize that the marketplace is a democracy today, and how we spend our money is casting our ballot. Most political democracies are corrupt, including that of the United States. Democracy is not really working on a governmental basis because the corporations are in charge. But it is working on a market basis. I would encourage the people of Greece to stand up: Don’t pay off those debts; have your own referendums; refuse to pay them off; go to the streets and strike.

            And so, I would encourage the Greek people to continue to do this. Don’t accept this criticism that it’s your fault, you’re to blame, you’ve got to suffer austerity, austerity, austerity. That only works for the rich people; it does not work for the average person or the middle class. Build up that middle class; bring employment back; bring disposable income back to the average citizen of Greece. Fight for that; make it happen; stand up for your rights; respect your history as fighters and leaders in democracy, and show the world!

            Jul 11, 2015 11:11 PM

            I may me mistaken, but wasn’t this posted earlier?

            Jul 11, 2015 11:31 AM

            James Perloff, “Truth is a lonely warrior”

            Jay Taylor interviews him.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:27 PM

            reposted so cfs could see how its done and why.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:43 PM

            Heathen, I understand the U.S. “hitting” small countries in order to gain resources, but why is the Federal Reserve doing the same to the US. What is there to gain?

            I.e. I understand why someone might shoot someone else. What i don’t understand why someone would shoot himself.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:22 PM

            Depends on just how big their foot happens to be!

            Jul 11, 2015 11:54 PM

            Perkins explains, its not the U.S. it is what he calls the “corportocracy”.
            It is a corporate empire that has no boarders.

            The U.S. is also a victim.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:46 PM

            But CFS, how is it they’re shooting themselves in the foot? It’s not like we’re one big happy family. The worst enemies of a nations’ people have often, if not usually, been homegrown rather than external threats.

          Jul 12, 2015 12:42 PM

          Financiers and corporations with a mainline to gov’t $ wanting to suck America’s blood dry (i.e. transfer all its’ wealth into their pockets). No? Seems pretty obvious.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:43 PM

            oops, this is in the wrong place. should have been in response to CFS’s quedry above.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:52 AM

    I have many computer email accounts, that are totally independent of each other. One I use for banking only. Two I use for stock dealings only. Three I use for shopping. Two I use for general correspondence and one I use for family correspondence. As someone who has been using emails for over 30 plus years, first on arpanet and then on the Internet, I have learnt that email accounts should be separated from each other AND also independent of your internet providers. That’s just my personal opinion.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:42 AM

      CFS, you sir are very technologically diversified. Very wise man.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:00 AM

    Al, we have good news on silver market: It seems silver bottom, because It made 3 green candle sticks on daily chart. Very possible gold will follow that…

      Jul 11, 2015 11:07 AM

      Peter, we’re getting close to a bottom and a bounce, however that bounce may be short term.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:36 AM

        Agreed that the bounce may be short-term, and we likely still have further to fall in later July and early August before we put in the intermediate bottom. As discussed yesterday, there may be a few select stocks you can swing-trade up for 3-7 days on this bounce, but you need to get in at a good price and sell into the strength, and then get back out of the way.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:37 AM

          not investment advice – just an opinion for swing-trading counter-trend bounces in this slow grind down of the summer doldrums.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:52 AM

      I have to agree with Doc on this one.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:55 AM

    Silver has been up $1+ since the retest last Tuesday,some 7%.
    Gold has bounced $18 and what is impressive is that both rose through free n fair Comex Friday,where the PTB bullion banks have unfettered access to rig the paper price lower.
    So,some type of bottom and a bounce has already occurred. Will the price get hammered lower into the time frame for the major low this coming week,is the scenario left to unfold,as I understand.
    Silver is said to lead gold up and down so the silver chart freebie is worth a look:

    Jul 11, 2015 11:58 AM

    China Crisis – Hyperoversold Condition Calls For Bounce – Target…
    Friday July 10, 2015

      Jul 11, 2015 11:02 AM

      Shad, Chinese stock marker can no longer be described with TA (not sure which one can). Based on an article of insider I received from my friend, it is utter manipulation from both sides. It is not even financial , it is political struggle. The worst one trade for one stock reached 800 million yuans at the peak. The one attacked most are the heavy weight stocks. The fact that the premier sent the vice minister to personally led police to occupy Chinese security commission means they treated this as crime. This guy was a crime detective for 30 year and full of achievement. The shorts are high level insider and probably control the market. Government with billions of dollars in hand could not stop the slide for days.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:35 AM

        I do agree with you Lawrence on the manipulation of the Chinese stock markets and government intervention in the Chinese Security Commission’s actions. However, the Technical Analysis the author shared is just tracking their pattern of manipulations 🙂

        Jul 11, 2015 11:47 PM

        All manipulation and interventions aside (and yes, I would agree that the reason the market is being artificially propped up is to allow the big fish to recover and escape the crash) there is still an Elliot pattern that suggests a major fifth wave is coming. You can see it by reviewing a longer term chart so discard the shorter time periods. This market will still make a parabolic move in excess of what we have already seen. The top is not yet here in my view and I believe there is still an opportunity on the final leg up. But don’t listen (!) to anything I say and especially don’t take this as advice. I could also be bat-ass crazy.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:38 PM

          I had nearly all my principle out when Shanghai reached its peak. I will sell the rest if government push it higher. I have no problem with government wanting to boost the market to prevent capital flow. But use force to prevent crash is not what I want to see. The market is dangerous. I feel it is not government’s intent to push market that high. Prime minister Li said there is evil in the exchange when market was running higher. It means he has lost control

    Jul 11, 2015 11:12 AM

    An extension of what Grant is talking about at least in The US is where The SEC protects the bankers by making sure none of them are prosecuted for their actions ( ie: money laundering) and institutes a system of backroom deals whereby they pay a small fine. The government has your back boys, you can’t do any wrong, the system is protected. Until…

    Jul 11, 2015 11:15 AM

    Overly critical atti of gold is a misplaced ignorance of monetary history-R.P. Stoeferle

    Jul 11, 2015 11:35 AM

    There is a tremendous demand for gold, so much so that synthetic gold in the form of derivatives have flooded the market has to be printed at a rate of 100:1 to real gold.
    Ask yourself, what would happen if paper gold no longer was able to substitute for real gold in portfolios?
    The answer to the price question is this, price stays low as long people are allowed to sell gold that they dont own or doesnt even exist. It’s funny, you cannot sell land to someone you dont own, but gold is easily printable and sold.

    We need this 🙂 :

      Jul 11, 2015 11:56 AM

      Now that is more truthful than funny, isn’t it?

      Jul 11, 2015 11:44 PM

      Gold paper is like getting a quit claim deed……You can quit claim a deed to anyone , at any time, for any real estate in the usa., without getting in trouble….until the real owner shows up…………… 🙂

      Jul 11, 2015 11:04 PM

      Without a gold futures market the price of gold would almost certainly plummet. Electronic trading in precious metals is part of what keeps it alive and actively traded round the clock. Without so-called paper gold we would be talking about just another lump of metal that would be confined to the interests of the smallest segment of the population and it would not enjoy the volatility, rises and falls or drama that makes it worth following in the first place. Without paper trading, gold would never have reached the highs it did nor been the great speculative bet that is was. Instead it would be a bland rock traded over the counter in coin stores with little interest outside of its periodic collectible value.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:12 PM

        lol Listener

        I bet your right about that.

        Probly more people interested in the price of toilet paper beer and cigarettes.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:33 PM

          Specs, large and small, on the Comex, a total of about 31 actual traders, have sold a record amount of naked shorts over the past month and added more last week,,,,,they dont have gold and silver, they dont hold any, they don’t mine any, they don’t have a warehouse, they dont use silver in manufacturing…….they just sell futures and drive the spot price down with it…..notice I didnt say “manipulate”….they don’t manipulate anything ……the rules let them selll the shit out of it…….they( and their London buddies) set the price for the wold…….if they actually had to post physical silver as collateral to be able to short a contract do you think they would do it?……..the only good news is that the Comms have bought all the positions the Specs have sold knowing that eventually allthose short contracts must and will be bought back by the Specs (remember they have no physical so they have no choice)…….the Comms have put dinner in the oven, set the timer, and will sit back in their lounge chairs calmly waiting for the dinner bell to ring……

          Its a hell of a way to run a market and I suspect a paradigm shift is coming in how price is set in pm’s……..just dont know when.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:51 PM

            But the 31 actual traders will NOT lose money. Any absence of physical metal will be cash settled at the LOW price.

            They do not have to buy back. That is the point.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:21 PM

            Agree, Gabriel

            Jul 11, 2015 11:28 PM

            Gabriel, isn’t that what the sge is about?

            Its possible tho that the owners are the same, no matter what country they operate from.
            Remember, western banks have had interest in China for decades at minimum.
            It could all be a rouse to get people to accept more fiat.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:35 PM

            Great comments and spot on!

          Jul 11, 2015 11:00 PM

          OK, now you are talking real 🙂 essential commodities, heathen. I will live just fine without gold but my TP is another story altogether. Last year I heard it was selling for prices close to that of gold leaf in far away places like Venezuela where the equivalent of a bank run saw the roll-soft paper obliterated from store shelves and hoarded in a baker’s minute as wealthy, panicked Venusian’s snapped it up desperately by the armloads. The alternative was grass and leaves of course and no trendy, internet connected savant wanted to go there if they could help it. Too hard on the keyboard afterwards (or so I hear).

          Venezuela Toilet Paper Shortage:

            Jul 11, 2015 11:24 PM

            That’s right Listener, you caught on, lol

            TP, Booze and Cigarette companies wont go broke. Among other essentials.

            A boatload of tp to Venesuala would have made a fortune.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:48 PM

            No, they will not go broke. (Well, maybe cigarettes!)

          Jul 11, 2015 11:18 PM

          Exactly CFS, they don’t need any metal, they settle in dollars.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:20 PM

        Can’t agree with a lot of your comment. But, then again, maybe I am bat-ass crazy!

    Jul 11, 2015 11:58 AM

    You absolutely JUST NAILED the heart of matter, madness and shear criminality of what we are dealing with in the PM market – IT CANT and WONT LAST – I CAN ASSUre EVERYONE HERE ON THIS SITE…but you guys already KNEW that!!

      Jul 11, 2015 11:49 PM

      Thanks SD Marc.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:59 AM

    …..and GALS…Jody D!!!

    Jul 11, 2015 11:06 AM

    I pulled down 16% on JDST this week. I am up 6% on RUSL. I girded up the loins and decided to hold Russia over the weekend. Gulp!

    About Chinese and gambling. I am married to one and I have been to Beijing x2, Kunming x4, Shanghai x1, and Mile x2. Their biggest gamble is a game called maji (spelling?). Their gambling causes allot of problems.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:38 AM


      Jul 11, 2015 11:42 AM

      The Chinese that I see here love smoking and gambling, they are two dangerous addictions and when combined can’t be good for your health. DT

        Jul 11, 2015 11:03 AM

        Agree totally

        Jul 11, 2015 11:09 AM

        Do any of them walk 18 miles a day?

          Jul 11, 2015 11:37 AM

          Some walk 18 miles a day while smoking and gambling. Not for the faint of heart.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:15 PM

            Funny and true story.

            After I finished my first Marathon, Portland, the first thing that I did was drink a cup of black coffee and smoke a Marlboro.

            I am really lucky that I am still alive considering my former lifestyle!

            Jul 11, 2015 11:46 PM

            So you’d run a marathon for a camel? 🙂

            Sounds like Kenny Stabler. I heard he was a smoker and he managed to win a Super Bowl.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:17 PM

            Yeh, but I got smart Eddie and quit 30 years ago.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:06 PM

            Legend has it that Kenny Stabler won a contest of throwing a mullet the furthest at a local bar in Gulf Shores Alabama. Since then the bar ( FloraBama Lounge, on the line and on the beach) have had the annual mullet toss for years. Great place, lots of fun for years.

            In honor of Ken Stabler. ( great QB, great man)

            Jul 11, 2015 11:45 PM

            Heck of a quarterback!

            Jul 11, 2015 11:08 PM

            I am really lucky that I am still alive considering my former lifestyle!

            It’s like I always say, Big Al Korelin is indestructible.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:32 PM

            Three weeks ago, while in the emergency room, I might have disagred!

            Great care and common sense from Kathy saved the day!

      Jul 11, 2015 11:41 PM

      You have done well! Congrats! I think holding RUSL over the weekend will prove well. I would have shaky knees holding JDST over the weekend. But hey man, you did real good!

    Jul 11, 2015 11:11 AM

    The manipulation of the PM market goes back hundreds of years. It is all about control.
    The control process can not end as the controlling entities will not allow it.
    What is about to occur is a period of transition from the reserve currency control mechanism to yet another. In this brief period of time monetary metals will be allowed to rise while filling the void of uncertainty they created. THEY will profit the most,as they always do, but in this period will also come our opportunity.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:17 AM

    Off topic, but important. Re: Obama’s negotiations with Iran.
    I have reported here previously this is a stupid idea, only to be criticized by various people saying that Iran is peaceful and has never broken a treaty.
    Reported in

    More evidence of Iranian violations has now surfaced. Two reports regarding Iran’s attempts to illicitly and clandestinely procure technology for its nuclear and ballistic missile programs have recently been published. They show that Iran’s procurement continues apace, if not faster than before the Joint Plan of Action was signed in November 2013.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:21 AM
      Jul 11, 2015 11:27 AM


      16 US Intelligence agencies all agree that Iran has no nuclear weapons program. There is a nuclear armed country in the Middle East doing everything in its power to confuse the issue. You are listening to disinformation from the same people who lied us into attacking Iraq.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:56 PM

        That is not what the two reports, which happen to be U.N. Reports, indicate,

            Jul 12, 2015 12:59 AM

            CFS: You are providing disinformation. Why don’t we talk about the country in the Middle East with 400 nuclear weapons?

            The agency’s inspectors, who have had almost daily access to most of Iran’s nuclear production facilities, reported finding no evidence that Iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon, and said Tehran had halted work on facilities that could have given it bomb-making capabilities.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:56 PM

            NYTimes is certainly not a credible source. They were cheerleaders, and dishonest, leading into the 2003 war in Iraq.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:09 PM

      As I understand it, the “negotiations” really aren’t going anywhere anyway. Am I correct?

        Jul 11, 2015 11:00 PM

        Al: You are hearing the US position. They are trying to force Iran into absurd positions. We know there is no weapons program, they know there is no weapons program yet we demand positions that are in effect, acts of war.

        Sooner or later Americans will wake up to what is going on and will demand that we stop fighting wars for Israel. Israel wants to con the US into attacking Iran based on the same lies that they told us to get us to attack Iraq.

        Iraq wasn’t an enemy of the US and neither is Iran.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:15 PM

          I hope you are right. But let’s face it, the vast majority of Amerikans are sheep. They are extremely ignorant and believe what their rulers and the lamestream media tell them. And in 2016 they will do what they are told and elect Killary or Jebby as the next dictator.

            Jul 11, 2015 11:18 PM

            You know with the turnouts that Trump seems to be getting, maybe the tide is turning at least a little bit!

          Jul 11, 2015 11:19 PM

          Soon a central bank will be established in Tehran and then in Havana and the only ones left are Sudan and North Korea.
          Libya,Iraq and Afghanistan have been decimated by the big money thug,already.

          Jul 11, 2015 11:17 PM

          I have never said that Iran was an enemy of the U.S.

          Jul 12, 2015 12:57 AM

          If they aren’t an enemy why do they keep shouting “death to America”…as witnessed in the film reports which are factual…good grief Bob…you can’t really believe that..

            Jul 12, 2015 12:07 AM

            Gator: America is the enemy of Iran. Iran is not the enemy of the US. Iran did not lead us into a war with Iraq, Iran did not con us into a war with Libya, Iran hasn’t ordered us to attack Somalia or Sudan. Iran did not come up with the Yinon plan in 1982 to disrupt the entire middle east so they could dominate the area. And they don’t have 400 nuclear weapons. And they haven’t threatened the world with the Samson option.


            Jul 12, 2015 12:40 AM

            “death to America” is an expression.
            “death to…..” is used for a lot of things.
            A bad dentist “death to dentists”
            Dishonest politician “death to politicians”

            It merely means they don’t appreciate us, why would they? It isn’t what it sounds like to us.

            I watched a comedian last night talking about Iran, he was saying Iran doesn’t play the “risk” game, they would stop threatening us if they realised we just killed two countries next to them. Among other Iran “jokes”.
            Sounded to me he and the audience were convinced Iran is a threat and enemy.

            Your right Bob, but people are not going to inform themselves and nobody really cares.

            Just read an article about the American military industrial complex and why Americans put up with so much of their taxes supporting it. Really simple, Americans love war.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:07 AM

            Don’t forget our rulers have been meddling in Iran for over half a century. And in the ’50s overthrew their gummit and installed a New World Odor puppet.

            And of course supplied Sadam with weapons (including chemical) during the Iran and Iraq War.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:09 PM

            Probably true, Eddie!

            Jul 12, 2015 12:42 PM

            The U.S. is the enemy of Iran ?That’s BS.
            The U.S. allowed to have 13 tonnes of gold shipped from S. Africa.

            Rumor has it the “stalled” negotiations “can only be at pre-arranged times and approved by Iran”
            And their research facility is off limits for inspection.

            Recently Iran shipped 100 tons of military supplies into Syria.
            , has has provided un-quantified amounts into other countries where the U.S. is supposedly fighting “terrorism”. And Iran is still on the sponsor of terrorism list, despite the big zero’s attempts to get it taken off.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:01 PM

            I don’t know why anyone would think the US is an enemy of Iran. We only threaten to bomb them on a regular basis. And overthrew their gov’t in the 50s and imposed a brutal dictator on them for 25 years. And egged Saddam on to wage war on them. But I’m sure our military industrial complex has their best interests at heart.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:27 PM

            +1 GH

            Jul 12, 2015 12:34 PM

            Geez CFS, I didn’t realise just how “brainwashed” you are.
            No offence but wow.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:46 PM

            CFS brainwashed? Never heard that one before!

            Jul 12, 2015 12:24 PM

            CFS says:
            The U.S. is the enemy of Iran ?That’s BS.

            The U.S. is a friend of Iran?
            Well, they wouldn’t need enemies I guess.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:34 PM

            I did not say the U.S. was a friend of Iran.
            Obama maybe, but not the US.
            Fact: the U.S. has allowed 13 tonnes of gold, owned by Iran, but held in South Africa under the sanctions imposed by the US, to be returned to Iran.

            GH, you claim the U.S. threatened to bomb Iran. Care to produce evidence for that statement?

            Jul 13, 2015 13:07 AM

            CFS — Threats to bomb, maybe not as official policy statements, but certainly important people in our gov’t like Hillary Clinton and John McCain have made plenty of noise about it.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:13 AM

            Given the U.S. track record of destroying countries in the Middle East, if I were Iran, I would find this worrisome.

            Oh, and I forgot to mention the years of financial warfare that we have waged against them. For what offenses exactly? Spurious allegations about nuclear weapons that, as Bob M. mentioned, have been denied by our own intelligence agencies?

            Paul Craig Robert argues, persuasively, that this whole nuclear issue is bunk, and that the US will continue to attack Iran one way and another until it gets what it really wants–for Iran to bend the knee and become another vassal state.

            I have to echo Heathen’s ‘wow’. I welcome disagreement, as long as it’s honest. That’s how we learn. But for a highly educated man to gloss over so many relevant details…what’s going on here?

            Jul 13, 2015 13:10 AM

            Becoming “another vassal state” will not happen!

            Jul 13, 2015 13:37 AM

            That is kinda interesting/worrisome, but not shocking. PCR sure has a grasp of things.

            Was it Mcain that sang “bomb,bomb,bomb?”
            I think Iran is surrounded by American bases.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:30 AM

    I bought EMR, MSFT and MCD on Friday morning. Just sit back and collect my dividends.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:34 PM

      Tyler, overall that’s a good strategy if we’re about to enter a down market—-that and holding cash. If you would like to purchase a company with good dividends that is having a nice run higher and technically looks good, you might want to look at NAT. They’ll come out with their next dividend pronouncement this week on July 15.

        Jul 11, 2015 11:36 PM

        Thank you for the comment. I all ready own over 60K shares of TEU that I bought at .75 per share so do not want to purchase another container plays at this time. Every hates MCD and MSFT and EMR is spinning off a unit in September and want to own the network power pure play stock. Also added to SJM and was able to get 500 shares of the TDOC IPO at $19 per share.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:41 AM

    Getting paid to hold them is a nice thing.

    If there is a larger correction in the general equity markets this Fall would you just hold through those periods; or, sell them at that point, get out of the way of the correction, and then buy back in?

    Jul 11, 2015 11:34 PM

    SEG 7……..OPM……….OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY..(REAL ESTATE TERM)……..but the terminology might apply here.

      Jul 11, 2015 11:36 PM

      OPM………………Obama Plan of Management……

        Jul 11, 2015 11:41 PM

        Hope you and your family have a GREAT weekend….CANT WAIT to meet YOU in person what a frickin blast we will have..HAHHA!!

          Jul 12, 2015 12:35 AM


    Jul 11, 2015 11:41 PM

    Excellent musings of the Mogambo Guru:

      Jul 11, 2015 11:52 PM

      He is an interesting guy. Met him a few times at The Silver Summit.

    Jul 11, 2015 11:53 PM

    The US is in Israel’s back pocket when it comes to Middle East policy, the tail is wagging the dog. The dog however is reliant on The US Industrial Military Complex. The arms manufacturers run the show, even the banks know this. DT

      Jul 11, 2015 11:33 PM

      Probably. You been talking with my friend, Bobby?

        Jul 12, 2015 12:27 AM

        If you want an insight into what Eisenhower was talking about when he left office ” Beware Of The US Military Industrial Complex”, just watch a great PBS documentary produced by a great cinematographer ” Ken Burns called The War”.
        When you see the industrial might of America you have to ask yourself and this is only one case, Why did the US produce at least ten Sherman tanks that were needed to destroy one Tiger Tank. Why not just reverse engineer it and improve on it. I’m sure you don’t have the time because there is a lot on your plate, but this is only one example. DT

        Jul 12, 2015 12:21 AM

        Al, your friend Bobby is an original thinker, but I formulate my own opinions. DT

          Jul 12, 2015 12:06 PM

          As do I, Mr Tracy!

      Jul 12, 2015 12:45 PM

      Is that why Obama refused to meet Netanyahu when he visited the U.S.?

        Jul 12, 2015 12:46 PM

        That was in reply to US in back pocket of Israel.

          Jul 12, 2015 12:09 PM

          Our congress received him with about the same attitude as a dog begging for a bone. I’m pretty sure they roll over on command.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:40 PM

            I remember that, truly sickening.
            How proud Americans must be of their congress.
            Makes Obama out to be the best of the lot.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:48 AM

            I agree that many members are bought and corrupt.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:09 AM

            You think?

            Jul 13, 2015 13:07 AM

            Absolutely no question. I lived in DC for a few years, and the last 10 years in Latin America. Once you learn how to recognize corruption, there is no question the U.S. is drowning in it. It’s just that it’s high-level, not cops hitting you up for $20 like in Latin America.

            Listen to some Jack Abramoff interviews from after he got out of prison. He’s telling the truth, in my opinion.

            I recently met a lady who worked in DC for a defense contractor 40 years ago. She saw people carry brief cases of money to capitol hill, ‘just like in the movies’. And ‘all those disgusting, big bellied old men just want to sleep with you’.

    Jul 12, 2015 12:21 AM

    Egon von Greyerz tells us what we already know…

    Jul 12, 2015 12:55 AM

    Fresh off the UK Telegraph site on:

    Greece news live: EU leaders summit cancelled as ministers say ‘not possible’ to do deal today
    Athens’ fate rests on a knife edge as Slovakia and Finland say little chance of a deal on a third Greek bail-out today

    By Szu Ping Chan
    11:39 AM BST 12 Jul 2015

    This page will automatically update every 30 seconds On Off
    • Greece news: Germany circulates plans for “temporary Grexit”
    • EU summit cancelled as finance ministers continue to thrash out deal
    • Austrian finance minister says talks getting more difficult
    • Finland’s finance minister: nobody is trying to block a deal
    • Greeks left wondering what happened to their referendum ‘No’ vote
    • Explained: Why has Tsipras agreed to more austerity?

    Pictures from inside the Eurogroup meeting are coming in thick and fast.
    Germany caused a stir yesterday when it mooted a plan that either involved a temporary Greek exit from the eurozone or a €50bn grab of the country’s assets to pay off its debts. Greece’s would also have to cede control of its public administration to Brussels if it wanted to remain a member of the club in the short term.

    It was a drastic plan tabled by a minister who has hardened his stance on Greece substantially since its first bail-out in 2010. However, Germany signs the bulk of the cheques, and has enough voting power to veto any third rescue package.

    In short, if Germany says no deal, there will be no deal.

    Mehreen Khan wraps up all the action from yesterday here.

    Here’s a snapshot of the plan from Alberto Gallo at RBS:
    …and here’s what our international business editor Ambrose Evans-Pritchard thinks about it all:
    [PHOTO] German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble (R) and French Finance Minister Michel Sapin talk at the start of a special Eurogroup finance ministers meeting (Photo: EPA)

    The pics are coming in from today’s Eurogroup. This one is my favourite:
    [PHOTO] Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos and International Monetary Fund (IMF) Managing Director Christine Lagarde (back C) attend an euro zone finance ministers meeting in Brussels (Reuters)

    On his arrival to the Eurogroup meeting today, Pier Carlo Padoan, Italy’s finance minister, said the main obstacle going forward is a “lack of trust.” He told reporters:
    I would like to see the Greek government to take concrete actions starting tomorrow in parliament to implement measures that are needed for Greece in the first place.

    Enough is enough, we must reach a deal. That will be Matteo Renzi, the Italian prime minister’s message to the rest of the eurozone today. Alice Philipson has more:
    Italy PM Matteo Renzi is to tell Germany that Greece must not be allowed to exit the Euro, according to the Itailan daily Il Messagero, who was quoted in the newspaper as saying “enough is enough” and that ” we must absolutely sign a deal”.
    He said that Italy did not want Greece to leave the Euro and that “humiliating a European partner after Greece has given up on just about everything is unthinkable”.
    “Now common sense must prevail and an agreement must be reached,” he said. “Italy does not want Greece to exit the euro and to Germany I say: enough is enough.”

    To give you an idea of just how (un)happy this eurozone family is at the moment: here’s just one of the rumours swirling around the Greek and Italian press this morning:

    Brussels correspondent for @amna_news claims Eurogroup adjourned after Schaeuble snapped “Don’t take me for a fool” at Draghi #Greece #euro
    — Nick Malkoutzis (@NickMalkoutzis) July 12, 2015
    [PHOTO] Tensions: Wolfgang Schaeuble (left), Germany’s finance minister, reportedly snapped at Mario Draghi, the head of the ECB

    Finland’s prime minister Juha Sipila has been speaking to reporters in Finland this morning.
    While his finance minister (and predecessor) Alex Stubb insisted this morning that “no-one is blocking a deal” (see 09.43), Mr Sipila is keeping his cards close to his chest. He described Finalnd’s stance on Greece as “confidential”, and not necessarily the toughest around the table.
    He did, however, say that Greece’s proposal was “not at all sufficient to start talks”. I see this rolling on until July 20, when Greece must repay €3.5bn to the ECB.
    [PHOTO] Finland’s prime minister Juha Sipila

    Just to remind everyone of today’s events.
    • The meeting of the 19 finance ministers of the eurozone is underway. It started at 10am BST and will continue for most of the afternoon.
    • At 3pm BST, the heads of the eurozone will arrive – so Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor and Francois Hollande, France’s president, will meet Alexis Tsipras, Greece’s prime minister.
    • Leaders will “take stock of the situation and set out the political guidelines for the next steps”, according to a press release sent out this morning. “President Donald Tusk confirmed that the euro area authorities were ready to do all that is necessary to ensure financial stability in the euro area,” it said.

    Next to arrive is Pierre Moscovici. He says he is still hopeful that a deal can be reached, but sugggests the ball remains in Greece’s court.
    Greece needs to commit to reforms, he tells reporters.

    Christine Lagarde, the head of the International Monetary Fund, has also just arrived. No words from her this morning.

    One of the most vocal opponents of a new Greek bail-out is Slovakia. Its finance minister Peter Kažimír has been speaking to reporters this morning – reluctantly.
    In reference to the special Sunday summit, he joked:
    I cannot speak to media because I’m Catholic and I don’t work on Sundays.
    Asked what he expected to happen today, Mr Kažimír said:
    Nothing. It’s not possible to reach a deal today.
    [PHOTO]: Not hopeful of reaching a deal: Slovakia’s finance minister Peter Kažimír

    [PHOTO] Mario Draghi, the head of the European Central Bank, has just arrived in the back of a grey Mercedes Benz. He didn’t stop to talk to reporters.

    Sajid Javid, the UK business secretary, has been speaking to Andrew Marr about Greece this morning. Asked about the cancellation of the EU leaders summit this evening he said:
    It certainly sounds like they don’t have a deal yet, that’s certainly clear. It’s also a reminder of just how difficult it’s been for the Greek people for a number of years. For any country to go through a decline of GDP of 25pc , the Greek people are really suffering.
    We want to see a resolution to the solution to this as soon as possible, but clearly it’s got to be something that comes from within the eurozone. I hope they can reach a deal as soon as possible.
    I’ve always said the euro was a flawed proposal right from the start. It was always gonig to lead to these types of problems. I think it was entirely predictable, and countries that are in the eurozone – they have to draw lessons and realise if they want to have a single currency, have to have a single country to go with it.

    Finland, which has always been uneasy about Greece’s bail-out, insisted this morning that “no-one is blocking a deal”. Mr Stubb said: “We are all constructively terying to find a solution in a very difficult situation. “We are very far away from the conditionality that we need. More from Mr Stubb:
    If this was a negotiation from one to 10, I think we’re still standing somewhere between 3 and 4. So making progress but not there yet.
    There are basically three litmus tests here. Number one is the stability of the euro zone and Greek finances. Number two is debt sustainability and then number three is basic financing.
    If we get those right and we link those to very tough conditionality which has to do with pensions, which has to do with VATs, which has to do with structural reforms, etc, then we might find a deal
    No one is blocking a deal, we’re all constructively trying to find a solution in a very difficult situation. The conditionality that has been presented by the Greeks is simply not enough at this stage.
    We need to have clear commitments, clear conditionality and clear proof that those conditions will be implemented at the end of the day.

    You can read all about events yesterday here.
    Eurozone finance ministers have already started to arrive for day two of crunch talks.
    Hans Jörg Schelling, Austria’s finance minister, says there are still “many differences” between the Eurogroup and Greece. Alexander Stubb, his Finnish counterpart, also told reporters this morning that the 19 nation bloc was still “very far away” from reaching a deal.
    [PHOTO] Greek finance minister Euclid Tsakalotos arrives for the start of a special Eurogroup meeting on Sunday

    Good morning and welcome to our coverage of the Greek debt crisis. Today was meant to be the day when the crisis was either solved or Europe prepared for a Grexit.
    Just days after Donald Tusk, the president of the European Union, said “loud and clear that the final deadline ends this week”, he’s just announced that a summit of the 28 leaders of the European Union – including UK prime minister David Cameron has been cancelled. He’s just tweeted:

    I have cancelled #EUCO today. #EuroSummit to start at 16h and last until we conclude talks on #Greece
    — Donald Tusk (@eucopresident) July 12, 2015

    In short: it ain’t over yet. We’ll be here all day bringing you live updates.

    Jul 12, 2015 12:10 AM

    Texas to become the new Switzerland?

    Jul 12, 2015 12:02 AM

    Fortunately there is B Moriarty.. cfs don’t you know what the UN is…?/ cmon.

      Jul 12, 2015 12:11 PM

      +1 Agatha. The “UN” world order crowd installed Obama.

        Jul 13, 2015 13:44 AM

        I think every president since JFK has been “installed” and lots before him.
        Wilson for sure.
        I have a hard time figuring out Reagan tho.

          Jul 13, 2015 13:05 AM

          My personal opinion about Reagan is that he really cared about the U.S. and had the ability to make a difference.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:18 AM

            That’s my thinking too Al, that’s why I find him hard to figure.
            We know all presidents are “placed” in the presidency for a reason, what was Reagans?
            Maybe every so often one is to keep people believing it makes a difference?
            Course, I may not know everything about him, and PCR believed in him.
            I just find him hard to figure out.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:37 PM

            Maybe he was as Al says, but the deeper plot was that TPTB used his appealing public persona to get the disgusting Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld in with him.

    Jul 12, 2015 12:08 AM

    Here’s a good interview with Egon VonGreyez…

    And there is an interview with Naomi Prince.

      Jul 12, 2015 12:13 AM


      It’s Nomi Prins.

      Jul 12, 2015 12:07 PM

      Thanks, Eddie!

      Jul 12, 2015 12:00 PM

      See above Ebolan!

        Jul 12, 2015 12:23 PM

        Oops…sorry Revernd for I have sinned…sometimes I don’t read through all the posts…

      Jul 12, 2015 12:23 PM

      The problem of most analysts who are bullish on gold is simultaneous bearish on China. Chinese buy gold not because they are getting poor, it actually because they have more money. If China does crash, the gold price will go with it since China nearly bought entire world production each year. Imagine you are producing something and your biggest customer goes broke, what will happen to your product? I visit China every year and two and did not see signs of economy crashing. Stock has never done much even when China was on double digit growth. It is not tied to the economy as in the west. Reason is simple, China is still on the early stage of industrialization and financial industry does not dominate the economy yet.

    Jul 12, 2015 12:20 AM

    Sorry, Mr. Helm. Whoever she is, she sure is purdy. 🙂 Why does Eric alwasy get to interview the purdy girls. 🙂

    Jul 12, 2015 12:28 PM

    Al doesn’t believe that The Chinese market meltdown bears any resemblance to what happened in 1929. If you read what is going on there is a huge shadow banking industry in China that the MOM’S and POP’s use to buy stocks on their markets, it’s not just the big players as some pundits think. DT

      Jul 12, 2015 12:32 PM

      Gambling is ingrained in The Chinese psychology. DT

        Jul 12, 2015 12:42 PM

        Go to Las Vegas, most are Americans. Every culture gambles and Chinese might be on the heavier side. I stayed in Vegas for 5 days not gambling one cent. All of my Chinese friends don’t gamble. We may belong to a more educated bunch.

          Jul 12, 2015 12:11 PM

          Lawrence, you can’t relate your own gambling habits to those of others, I worked in Chinatown Toronto, what I saw was a love of gambling. DT

            Jul 12, 2015 12:29 PM

            I guess you don’t know that people who stay in China town are the lower class. They stay together to run small business. China town was started by Chinese in a small region around canton area, there gambling is far more prevalent. It is why Macau is there. People in chinatown are mostly still from that area plus Vietnamese immigrants. For rest of country, I would say gambling is higher than US but not much higher. I rarely go to China town and I don’t understand what people speak unless they speak mandarin to me. For people who get education, they rarely stay in Chinatown.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:16 AM

            Fred Wong, a good friend and a valuable member of our Weekly Discussion Group, recommended a book called “The New Age of Ambition” which I would recommend highly to anyone who want to learn about the new China.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:11 PM

            Lawrence, investing in the stock market is not considered gambling by you, that is probably because you don’t buy stocks, Yes or No!

            Jul 12, 2015 12:16 PM

            I am investing and I have no choice. I don’t consider it gambling since i don’t buy any stock just thinking it may go up. If I save, my money is stolen by inflation. I don’t speculate, at least not any major way. I buy dividend Paying stocks and PM.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:17 PM

            Plus real estate forbrent

            Jul 12, 2015 12:28 PM

            I am glad you see buying real estate isn’t gambling and now you will probably tell me that your real estate holdings in Calgary were a good investment.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:14 AM

            Eventually, real estate is always a good investment. Notice I said eventually.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:06 PM

            So far so good. The price went up with inflation and I am collecting more than 4k a month. There is cash flow. The small town houses I bought has not gone down. There is always risk but by investment you have cash flow and by gambling you get less than zero sum game like in casino. So I can only say that there is good investment and bad investment but there is never good gambling.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:10 PM

            Your real estate holdings in Calgary are a good investment, that is what I thought you would say and you just reinforced my beliefs in you.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:19 PM

            I bought several years ago and price was lower. Are you so near sighted? I guess you always want to make instant money. What is wrong with cash flow? As I am paying down the mortgage I get more and more income.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:12 AM

            Very definitely a good move on your part Lawrence!

            Jul 13, 2015 13:17 AM

            Well okay. A lot of Russians also like to drink alcohol as do a lot of Irish. So what?

          Jul 13, 2015 13:18 AM

          It is pretty obvious that you, Lawrence, do belong to an “educated bunch”!

      Jul 12, 2015 12:46 PM

      As I know of, over whelming majority of Chinese do not play stock market. It is because Chinese stock is a laughing stock for many years. People hate it. There will be some gamblers commiting suicide but with the amount of people and money it should not impact economy in any meaningful way. If it crashes two years later, it might be different.

        Jul 12, 2015 12:21 PM

        Lawrence, most of the Chinese people do not play the stock market because they don’t see it as gambling, it is a laughing stock. Thanks for the explanation. DT

          Jul 12, 2015 12:09 PM

          Please don’t insult Chinese. I thought we are discussing. Chinese stock market hasn’t done well since 2007 and Everyone know it.

            Jul 12, 2015 12:16 PM

            I have never insulted The Chinese you show me where and I will gladly apologize, I have been through this before with you and it is always the same you can’t explain yourself, I’m waiting………..!

            Jul 12, 2015 12:23 PM

            You just read what you typed again. You said Chinese don’t invest in stock since it is not gambling. Logic says you mean Chinese are interested only in gambling.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:12 AM

            Don’t agree on this one Lawrence. I really don’t think that Mr. Tracy was being derogatory.

            Jul 13, 2015 13:14 AM

            I am not sure just how anyone in their right mind could insult the Chinese folks!

        Jul 12, 2015 12:32 PM

        Lawrence I asked you to show me where I have insulted The Chinese but since you are unwilling to do that then you can keep posting nonsense that makes sense only to you. DT

    Jul 12, 2015 12:34 PM

    What’s going on with 24hgold? For the last few hours their home page displays a Windows server page.

      Jul 12, 2015 12:35 PM

      Maybe they need to call it 21hgold.

        Jul 12, 2015 12:27 PM

        &#9733 Looks like now longer works, got to use www prefix.

    Jul 12, 2015 12:45 PM

    See Tru News on SGT _ Toppling the tyranny of the Fed, Texas has its first gold backed bank…Pretty darn significant, yes?

      Jul 13, 2015 13:11 AM

      I think so……..but, you know the fedsters are not going to take it ……attacks will be coming, for sure. Plan for it. Just like they will not let Greece go down, even when the people want to cut and run. Total control is the game.

        Jul 13, 2015 13:12 AM

        I understand GREENSPAN likes gold……Greenspan should be careful, he might think he is going to go down in history as a good guy…….NO WAY GREENSPAN, YOU CROOK…JMHO

    Jul 13, 2015 13:54 AM

    That was a great interview, Andrew.
    Times are changing. Gold is money.

      Jul 13, 2015 13:23 AM


        Jul 13, 2015 13:14 AM

        SHEEPLE ARE STILL ASLEEP………….where is that 10 oz. silver bar anyway…..Chocolate bars……….what a hoot…………………..ootb

          Jul 13, 2015 13:20 AM

          MONDAY………….and the GREEKS ARE GOING TO GET A BIG……….VAT.. up there back side……….
          ..double the Vat,,,,Roasting the pigs coming.. ….., and a vat of grease and you can roast a chicken politian……..

            Jul 13, 2015 13:21 AM

            there , to their………….(66 and I am losing my mind)

            Jul 13, 2015 13:08 AM

            Thant’s okay Indy, I have already lost mine!

          Jul 13, 2015 13:09 AM

          Yeh, who wants value when you can have empty and worthless calories?

    Jul 13, 2015 13:31 AM

    GREEKS ARE GIVING AWAY THEIR COUNTRY………. debt slaves forever ……60% are not going to like the deal. Good night and turn out the lights.

      Jul 13, 2015 13:33 AM

      I think the Greeks are going to turn in their MERCEDES TAXI CABS………

        Jul 13, 2015 13:39 AM

        Next will be the MERKELWAGON…………new production and new models coming this fall……Oh, do they have enough doneys and wagon to give the tourist a ride.

        Jul 13, 2015 13:07 AM

        Still is a great car, Indy.

    Jul 13, 2015 13:35 AM

    Next up………….SPAIN……the new dictatorship

      Jul 13, 2015 13:41 AM

      It is right. If they don’t want to end up like Greece, dictatorship is the only way. People are not going to like the pain. Any country which is depending on other country’s liniency will choose Greece or Spain model.

        Jul 13, 2015 13:43 AM

        The PEOPLE.of Greece….the majority of 60% that voted , need to overpower the PM, and kick his arce out.

          Jul 13, 2015 13:46 AM

          IF , YOU want to lay down with swine, you will only get the smell ,…. do not throw your pearls to the swine(kjv)

            Jul 13, 2015 13:50 AM

            I guess starvation and poverty scare a lot of people. Once people is addicted to the free money, it is too hard to quit. A lot of drug addicts lose everything and end up dead.

          Jul 13, 2015 13:49 AM

          THE people of GREECE ARE TOAST ….Long term they are slaves, …short term pain is FREEDOM….

            Jul 13, 2015 13:57 AM

            Hope Spain can pull it together. They have had tougher times. People seems still remember it

            Jul 13, 2015 13:35 AM

            Ditto on SPAIN

    Jul 13, 2015 13:31 AM

    First off: the Greece “deal’ is NOT yet a done deal. It is contingent on the Greek parliament passing fiscal responsibility laws and later on actual tax collection from Greek corporations. ANDY also contingent on agreement by EVERY member of the Eurozone independently.
    Nothing is yet guaranteed.

    e.g. Finland, you might not think important compared with, say, Germany. However the Finnish contribution to covering Greek debt is approx $ 6 Billion. Compare that to Finnish GDP around $ 200 Billion and a Finnish government budget of $ 25 Billion. Opinion poles in Finland run about 70% AGAINST a Greece bailout, even higher than German opinion poles running about 60% against a Greece bailout.
    Of the Euroland countries ONLY France seems to have a clear majority in favor!
    ( and even that may be anomalous, because the EU farm subsidies, on which France is heavily dependent, may be delayed by the decision on Greece. I heard that statement on BBC Radio, but do not have independent knowledge of same.)

      Jul 13, 2015 13:36 AM


      Jul 13, 2015 13:38 AM

      CFS………would you have a talk with PENSE …and see if we could get a gold depository in hoosier land………………….. 🙂

    Jul 13, 2015 13:03 AM

    His parents used to live less than a 100 yards from my house.
    Haven’t seen Mike since his folks died, but I’ll see what I can do.

      Jul 13, 2015 13:23 AM

      His son Michael Pence just graduated from Purdue.

      Jul 13, 2015 13:09 AM