Big Al and Peter Grandich discuss the touchy subject of religion
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David,
You have some good comments,
BELIEVING IN the GOLDEN RULE…….(Translates.)..”is love they neighbor as theyself.”
and that is what Jesus said to do…..
You are more than half way of what Jesus wanted all of us to do.
You are correct in your feelings about the lie-(ing), Jesus could not stand
that either.
Do yourself a favor, and read Paul’s message to the gentiles..start with ACTS.
you do not have to read the entire bible , because the entire bible is not
todays message…and that is confusing to most christians.but I will not get into
that ,,because that may offend some who do not understand the message for today.
Thanking you for being human. as we all are and this is what Jesus knew when he died on the cross for all of our sins….past ,present and future.
Respectfully submitted, with no insult intended.
Hi Jerry,
Many thanks for your comments.
Big Al
Your welcome,,,thanks for the subject matter.
Hi David,
I do have some Muslim friends who would disagree. Kathy and I have talked about this at length with one of them and he adamantly stated that the “radicals” are crazy and do not speak for the entire religion.
Well okay, all I know is one of my closest friends daughter married a “liberal” Muslim who quickly turned into a “militant” Muslim. He, his wife and two boys now live in the Far East. Our friend is not allowed to communicate with his two grandchildren.
Wow, what’s that all about!
Comments?
Big Al
I have a reasonably good memory.
I remember muslims dancing in the xtreet celebrating 9/11. I remember how long it took for any muslim representative to come out and most reluctantly condemn 9/11, and I remember many muslim representatives did never condemn 9/11.
I remember 7/7 in England and I remember how many muslim representatives first tried to justify this by claiming that the US and UK were at fault by virtue of their presence in Iraq. That US and UK were at fault by their provocations.
I remember how qaddafi (or however his name is spelt) celebrated the return of the person responsible for bringing down the plane over Lockerbie, killing hundreds of innocent people, many american students.
I remember.
Until I see evidence to the contrary, I believe many muslims are evil and the religion fosters hatred.
David,
Obviously, I cannot disagree with any of your comments.
Doesn’t look really good, does it?
Best,
Big Al
No, it does not look good. I worry about Iran and its development of nuclear weapons at a time when Obama is behaving, at best, unconcerned and ,at worst, as if he is himself a muslim. I have the problem that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, I believe it is a duck!
I believe that the Christian ethic of “turning the other cheek” merely nvites another hit on the other cheek.
believe that the Jewish tenet of “an eye for an eye”, merely provokes further escalation of retaliation.
And yet somehow Iran must be persuaded that a nuclear strike against Saudi Arabia (more probable) or Israel (less probable) will not at all be in its best interest.
Good editorial Big Al. As the Lord said, “Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God”
However, I will have to point you to Charles Martel. The Battle of Pontiers was a battle that if Charles Martel had not fought on behalf of the Christian faith, Europe would have been islamic.
While we are constantly told that the Crusades were wrong, they sprung up for a reason. And that reason was just.
Getting back now to the editorial, indeed our walk here on earth is an extremely challenging one. As a believer, we see iniquity attacking us on all fronts. Our tongues curse men, the same that God created in His image. Yet we bless God with that same tongue. I for one am glad that we have been given a chance to come to repentance.. To come to the cross. Because we surely cannot make it without the Lord Yeshua.
Walk with the King and be a blessing,
Lynn 🙂
Sorry.. I did err. Its –> Battle of Poitiers 732 Anno Domini
Hi Lynn,
Yup, everyday is a challenge. Maybe that is the way it is supposed to be.
Thanks for your comments,
Big Al
I feel sorry for you guys. If you think living out the sermon on the mount is the true test fo a ” Christian” than no one except Christ could be a Christian because no one can live the sermon on the mount perfectly. Gods standard is perfection. A Christian is some one who understands this, see’s his inability to meet Gods standard of perfection, understands Christ’s perfect life and substitutionary death was for the purpose of freeing Gods elect from His wrath and curse. Who ever believs in Christ’s perfect work as fulfilling Gods requirement for his salvation and NOTHING ELSE is a true Christian. (John 3:16) A church that teaches this is a true church. The Bible is Gods revelation to this world and not a fairy tale. There are many articles at: trinityfoundation.org that explain Christianity clearly if you or anyone is interested in further study.
P.S. There is no such thing as Free Will. (Romans 9:16)
Sorry. Forgot 1 thing. A desire to live out the sermon on the mount and obey Gods law is a result of salvation not the cause in those who believe in Christs work on thier behalf.
Hi Doug,
Neither Peter nor I said that living out the Sermon on the Mount successfully is the test of a true Christian. You went on, I believe, to reiterate what we were trying to say and I appreciate your doing that.
I agree with what you are saying, but I need to study and think about your final comment that, “There is no such thing as Free Will.” Give me a little time.
Thanks for your comments,
Big Al
I think this is where Jesus ,,said to Paul… for todays message… because he knew man was weak and could not FULLFILL THE LAW.. or do the law,,, that he gave Paul the message as to FAITH PLUS NOTHING,,,NO LAW…. YOU ARE GIVEN GRACE THUR JESUS CHRIST., IT IS FINISHED, HE SAID ON THE CROSS….THAT MEANING THE LAW.
and he was speaking to the Jews…for the Jews could not and would not obey the law because it was to PERFICT….and God realized that no man , could be perfect, so he gave Paul a new message for today ….. WHICH WAS GODS GRACE… AND WHO EVER BELIEVES WHICH IS FAITH….AND NO WORKS ,,BUT YOU WILL WANT TO DO THE WORK OF THE FATHER, IF YOU BELIEVE AND HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU.
HI Jerry,
What can I say besides yup.
Best,
Big Al
AL,
thanks for the followup…..
Christanity is about loving God and loving people although we can’t consistently accomplish either. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus sets the bar for accomplishment impossibly high for we humans, but in this teaching gives us principles to guide our lives. We strive for goodness in inperfect ways but must acknowledge that our goodness is woefully inadequate to earn us a sonship with God. It is only though God’s grace that we are brought into right relationship with Him.
HI Dale,
The comment that you made which, in my mind, is absolutely true, is “We strive for goodness in imperfect ways buy must acknowledge that our goodness is woefully inadequate to earn us a sonship with God.”
I think that you are right on and this is where I must disagree with the LDS folks.
Thanks for your comment,
Big Al
JERRY,
YOU HAVE IT RIGHT.
EPH.2:8-9 the lord has provided that perfect gift of salvation, we have to accept that gift to be saved. who so ever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved.
Our gospel is hid to them that are lost.
Surrender your life to Jesus Christ and he will give you the holy spirit, to help you live the Christian life.
In the last days many false christs will come and deceive many.
We are living in the last days.
How ever know one knows the day nor the hour when the son of man cometh.
So keep looking up, pack up, because were going up soon.
Jerry,
I share your thoughts,
Big Al
DENIS FREY
THANKS…You are correct ,, our gospel is hid
Creator God gave man free will to choose and to play God in their lives. Every time I ever played God in my life, well lets say, didn’t turn out very well. Jesus is God, Son of God, and the Holy spirit, all wraped together when he walked the earth. So do I want a personal relationship with God thru Jesus, or play that I am my own God?
Hi Paul,
I believe that you want that personal relationship.
God Bless You,
Big Al
As Billy Graham said in his prayer to our country “we have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.” I totally agree with his view of what is wrong with this country. Here is the whole prayer:
‘Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask your forgiveness and to seek your direction and guidance. We know Your Word says, ‘Woe to those who call evil good, but that is exactly what we have done. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values. We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery. We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare. We have killed our unborn and called it choice. We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable. We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem. We have abused power and called it politics.
We have coveted our neighbor’s possessions and called it ambition. We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression. We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment. Search us, Oh God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and Set us free. Amen!’
In 1969, this man of God said that if peace talks in Paris were to fail, Nixon should step up the war and bomb the dikes in North Vietnam. A million people would have died.
The German High Commissioner Seyss-Inquart was sentenced to death at Nuremberg for breaking dikes in Holland in World War II.
Ol’ Billy could’ve been a war criminal.
Yep Matthew,
No man is perfect!
Thanks for the comment,
Big Al
True Al, but few wish to kill a million innocent people. I have a hard time taking this as lightly as you seem to.
Graham was an evil cracker.
Matthew
Trust me Matthew,
I don’t take any of this lightly as it might seem.
Big Al
Graham is a false teacher, Biblically-speaking. He’s far more guilty than a murderer of flesh. His false gospel has led many to hell.
HI Karen,
All I can say to the Billy Graham prayer is “Amen”
Wow! Sad but true.
Big Al
I’m agnostic, but I’ve always been very interested in theology.
I wasn’t raised in any particular religion (unless the pursuit of artistic creation can be considered a religion), but I’ve had experiences in my life that can best be explained through the presence of a “higher power.”
When I was in my early teens I began reading various religious and “spiritual philosophy” writings which I found interesting because I began to comprehend them as facets of the same aspect of our human experience.
I was particularly drawn to the parallels between Buddhism and Christianity. What struck me was how one could identify very similar elements, messages, and symbolism in the basic teachings of each religion. I began to see the differences between them as “color” that developed according to the nature of each culture within which these teachings developed. From that I reasoned that perhaps the teachings arise naturally within humanity according to our ability to be aware of them, and that this is true of every religion since primitive times.
Because I think of religions as a human response to naturally communicated universal “messages” from what may be termed God, it’s difficult for me to adhere to religions that are rooted in the past. Someone said somewhere, “God spoke 2000 years ago, and “he” hasn’t been allowed to say a word since.” Probably a wisecrack passed down through comedic channels, but that’s exactly my view. I also feel that one’s relationship to God is a personal one, and that placing a predefined structure between oneself and God is an affront to both you and God.
Perhaps these “messages” I speak of are signs of a collective unconscious – us speaking to ourselves as opposed to a higher power speaking to us. I don’t know, but I do feel one should remain open to impressions one receives and trust one’s instincts. It’s just as important to allow others to do the same, unless they’re imposing themselves upon others.
David is right that the Golden Rule provides the best guide for how to progress through one’s life.
It’s difficult for me to fault anyone for their beliefs because I see those beliefs as an extension of who they are, but I do find myself attacked on occasion for not adapting to beliefs held by someone else. My only criticism of religion is how it’s used to judge, manipulate, and attack others, but that has more to do with the individuals than the religion. I think people often use their religion to hold themselves above others.
Because society holds up certain religions as GOOD or BAD people can fall into the trap of identifying themselves with a religion simply because they want to be perceived a certain way. They may do so to hide their true nature, to gain influence or notoriety, out of fear or pride, or to rebel against social perceptions while conforming to the negative of those same social perceptions.
Even if the experiences I’ve had that hint at the existence of a universal natural force (“God”) are merely delusions I enjoy considering the existence of God and exploring honest expressions/interpretations of how God communicates with us (or through us.)
I like your perspective Al. I’ve always felt that God would be interested in us evolving as we would naturally evolve because we’d be more true to our existence in the world – whether that world is “his” or simply one we share with each other…
HI John,
You made some very wise comments and I truly appreciated reading and thinking about each and every one of them.
You are a bright man,
Big Al
MR. GRANDICH:
Correction — the message of the Christian faith IS NOT to love your enemy, feed the poor, etc … the message of the Christian faith is to REPENT, TURN TO JESUS AS LORD AND SAVIOUR, AND TO TURN FROM OUR WICKED WAYS!!!
The message of the Christian faith IS NOT to save the world, cure AIDS, and to build heaven on earth … the message of the Christian faith is to share the gospel message with others so that they do not wind up in hell.
The message from the sermon on the mount is a bi-product of giving one’s life over to Jesus Christ. Are we to feed the poor? Yes. Are we to shelter the homeless? Yes. Are we to love our enemies? Yes. But before ALL of that, we are to preach Christ crucified and speak about the message of salvation — everything else takes a back seat.
AL:
You have said that it does not matter what denomination one belongs to — is that really what you believe? If so, where do you draw the line between those that have gone astray and are preaching messages that are contrary to scripture? Are we to yoke ourselves with them as they blatantly alter the Word of God? Not according to scripture.
What I got from your interview with Peter Grandich is that you are both in favour of eccumenism (the joining together of all Christian denominations). Well, unbeknownst to many, that is precisely what is happening as we speak — the different denominations are slowly being pulled into Rome. Once this has been achieved, then the Catholic church is going to start reaching out to the Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc. to pull them in as well — AND WHAT HAVE YOU GOT? Mystery Babylon the Great … the Mother of Harlots … A ONE WORLD RELIGION THAT PREACHES “LOVE AND TOLERANCE FOR ALL” — that is all except those who claim that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY to the Father (that is just too intolerant).
How ironic — a forthcoming New Age Religion that teaches tolerance for all, but will not tolerate a Christian that says that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY!!!
check out this short video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBl3MqNfsIE
Please note that I do not mean to offend … just speak the truth.
HI Bentnail,
Regarding your first paragraph, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU.
Regarding paragraphs two and three, I agree.
Regarding paragraph four, my allegiance is to God and not to any particular “club” within the various “clubs” that are supposedly part of the Christian faith.
Regarding paragraph five, I believe that my relationship is with God and not any particular “club”. Is Rome attempting to create a one world religion? If it is, I certainly do not support that.
Regarding your next paragraph, how can I possibly disagree with that?
Regarding the next paragraph, I will definitely “check it out.”
You have some brains, man!
Big Al
AL:
I really respect you – you are a real gentleman!!! A lot of people would put up their fists and start swinging after reading my prior statement. You on the other hand are very level-headed in my opinion (in both the religious and economic arenas).
That said, thank you for not taking my message the wrong way!!!
PS
Do you have any idea when / if Canasil will be releasing some news? I love the company, but it has been off the radar or quite some time now – or so it seems.
Thank you.
Hi there,
As a Brit I find people’s willingness in the US to talk openly & honestly about religious things refreshing.
As a ‘Bible-believing’ Christian (which is a term I am using more & more as I see people from all denominations turning away from the authority of scripture) I completely agree with Bentnail’s points.
The sermon on the mount is a practical outworking of the Holy Spirit in a person who has been made a new creation. This new creation can only come after we have realised that we are sinners & deserve eternal punishment. But, because of Christ’s death & resurrection we can receive God’s grace by believing & trusting in Jesus ALONE as our saviour.
At the cross an exchange took place. Jesus took on all our sin & we were offered His righteousness. It is only His righteousness which makes us acceptable in God’s sight. Our good deeds can never do that. The reason we do good deeds (i.e. the sermon on the mount) is to convey to others something of the love we have received from Christ. In other words to demonstrate Christ to others.
The reason that no other religions ‘work’ (for lack of better terms (Thanks Big Al!!!)) is that no other teachings can make us completely right before God. Whether it is Islam, Buddhism or anything else, they put the emphasis on the individual to either hope they are good enough at the end of their life or that they can ‘evolve’ into a better person in future lives.
God’s Word flatly refutes either hope. Galations 2:16 explains that we cannot get to God through our own goodness. Hebrews 9:27-28 explains that once we die then we are judged. there is no reincarnation, purgatory or second chance.
As for the global religion. Bentnail is spot on. Economics, religion & politics will continue to converge on a global, unifying basis. Rome is helping to bring all faiths together. Al, I say this most respectfully. Please be careful about what you follow as a Catholic. What the Catholic church teaches is a false gospel. In Vatican 2 is presented the teaching that we have to partly earn our way into heaven. It also teaches Mary devotion. We are only to worship 1 person & that is Jesus Christ.
Can there be born-again people in the Catholic church? Yes, but I would respectfully suggest that it is not easy. Jesus did not cal us to be anglican, lutheran, catholic etc.. but BORN AGAIN. Please read John’s gospel chapter 3.
Al, I love your thoughts on the economy & those of trader Rog too. Please continue to be honest with us. I (& many others I am sure) see you are a rare source of truth in this world where everything seems to be upside down.
God Bless you,
naomal
NAOMAL:
Very well put — you are very articulate!!!
Good Morning Naomal,
I want to clarify a couple of points describing my personal beliefs.
Regarding your comments concerning John’s gospel chapter 3, I completely agree.
Regarding the Catholic Church, I need to stress that there are many things within their particular philosophy that I do not adhere to.
For example, I believe that earning your way into heaven is critical. It makes no sense to me that a person can knowingly be a real schmuck (to borrow a term from my Jewish friends) and than at the last possible moments say he/she is sorry. That, to me makes absolutely no sense. Working your way into heaven, realizing you made some very serious mistakes, seems reasonable. I would guess that there might be a way in the “next chapter” to do that. But, just saying you are sorry and doing nothing about it other than saying these words, does not make sense. If it did why would the Sermon on the Mount ever have occurred?
Regarding devotion to Mary as if she were God, I do not believe that is the case nor would she ever consider it to be the case.
Of course, there is only one God.
Many thanks for your comments,
Big Al
Al:
Question: If one is saved via works, then how would you explain the following verses of scripture …
“He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.” (Titus 3:5)
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
“So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.” (Romans 11:5-6)
Consider this analogy: if you had a flawless diamond and took it into the jeweler to make an extra buck, he may look at it and say “wow, a perfect diamond … I will give you a million bucks for this gorgeous gem.” But what if while you were taking that diamond into the jeweler’s, it fell out of your hand and onto a bed of rocks — you pick it up only to realize that it has a huge crack down the middle of it. Do you think any logical jeweler would look at that diamond and say “wow, a perfect diamond … I will give you a million bucks for this beauty.”? Nope!!! Why? Because it is flawed. Is there anything that you can do to repair that diamond to it’s perfect state? Nope. you can try all you want, but in the eyes of the Jeweler, it is still a flawed diamond.
Likewise when it comes to us — man was created perfect in the garden of Eden — not only without sin, but in a perfect relationship with God. However, man sinned and as a result, he was cast out of the Lord’s presence (because heaven could not be heaven if sin was present there) — it would be flawed — and so God had to cast man out of His presence (just like He had to cast Lucifer out of His presence) — heaven cannot have sin since perfection and imperfection cannot exist together. That said, we are like flawed diamonds that have been rejected by a master jeweler … no matter how much we try to repair ourselves, we will always be flawed in the eyes of God (sin = imperfection). No amount of good works, rituals, prayers, etc. will ever change that (lest any man should boast) — “LOOK WHAT I DID TO EARN MY WAY INTO HEAVEN” — NOTICE WHO THE FOCUS IS ON — IT IS ON MAN, NOT GOD. Rather, when a person realizes that we are all on our way to hell without the death and resurrection of Christ and that our works cannot save us, then all of a sudden the table turns because when we accept the gift of salvation (WHAT CHRIST DID FOR US … AND NOT WHAT WE DID FOR OURSELVES) … you all of a sudden of a God-centered religion as opposed to a man-centered religion. IT IS WHAT HE DID FOR US (100%) … AND NOT WHAT WE CAN DO FOR OURSELVES TO EARN OUR WAY INTO HEAVEN — because if that is the case, then Christ needn’t have died on the cross … but He did since there is no other way that man can be deemed righteous in the eyes of God. We are all flawed diamonds that can never be repaired without the skillful hands of a Master Jeweler!!!
As for some dude living a corrupt life his entire life and then asking for forgiveness on his death bed. The bible makes it clear that if he truly repents, truly accepts Jesus into his life … he will be saved. But that is really a hypothetical since it is very difficult for most people to give their lives over to Christ (even on their death beds) because pride has a grip on their hearts.
Lucifer said “I WILL be like the most high” (I, I, I)
Adam and Eve believed that “THEY WOULD BE like the most high” (WE, WE, WE)
Manmade religions teach that “WE CAN EARN OUR WAY into heaven” (WE, WE, WE)
What is all of that? Pride — it is if one is saying that “We can do better than Christ, even though He said on the cross that ‘IT IS FINISHED'”. For some reason man still believes that “it is finished … BUT I still need to earn my way into heaven because Christ’s sacrifice was insufficient.” Was it?
AL:
PS
I was raised Catholic but realized that it is overflowing with unbiblical doctrines and traditions (many of which are blasphemous). I got out of it and began to read my bible (rather than just accepting what I was taught my entire life by the Catholic hierarchy. After all, hell is eternal … and we only have one chance in this life to get it right. I was not about to put my eternal soul in the hands of anyone other than myself — so I began to look for the truth — I found it!!!
Trust me on this one, I have this conversation with my parents all of the time and they are in the same boat as you. They know that the Catholic church is full of paganism … they know that it teaches false doctrines (ie. the so-called infallibility of the pope), and they know that they should hightail it out of the organization … BUT THEY ARE TRAPPED LIKE A COUPLE OF DEER IN A SET OF HEADLIGHTS. Why? Because it is very difficult to divest oneself of a lifelong custom. However, again I say, we only have one chance in life to get it right and the bible makes it clear that paganism (in any way, shape, or form) is detestable in the eyes of God.
Interesting discussion, Al and Peter. I wonde about Peter’s comment about harm done. I am not sure that most killings have been done in the name of religion. You’ve got the slave trade, the Nazis, the Japanese in Asia in the 30s and WWII, Stalin’s purges, Chairman Mao, WWI and WWII. None of these were religious per se and they add up to 100 million killings, maybe 150m. All in the 20th century too. Many of these carried out by ‘socialist’ type governments of one kind or another, all carried out at the behest of heads of STATE or GOVERNMENT, rather than heads of religion.
So I don’t agree that most wars, etc are due to religion, not at all, far from it I used to think so but I don’t now. Governments of course might leverage religion to further their wars. I would be surprised if all the religious wars in history (so far) would add up to that number just for the 20th Century done by governments.
All in the 20th century except of course the slave trade but you get my point.
Hi silverbug (Dave)
I think that Pete’s point was taken from your comment, “Governments of course might leverage religion to further their wars.”
Best,
Big Al
I missed this discussion yesterday. Here are my belated comments:
Al, I’m sorry your misguided religious comments continue spilling forth for public consumption. Today was the worst to date (to my knowledge). First off, no other organization has perpetrated more violence than the Roman Catholic Church. Of course, they’ve had the benefit of time and the State to get the job done. Aside from the Crusades, their killing of Christians during the Inquisition and Protestant Reformation has measured in untold millions.
Your comment about all Christian sub-groups being the same is not a benign statement but a very dangerous one, and, at best, reflects your lack of understanding between Catholics and Protestants. They are fundamentally antithetical to one another. The Catholic faith holds as chief and ultimate authority the papacy, and justification includes works. The Protestant faith rests upon the Bible alone and believes in justification by faith alone. Salvation is by faith, not works.
You state Christianity rests on a relationship with God and not a church. Here you are not Catholic but neither are you Biblical. Christianity is a belief system, a system laid down in the propositions of the Bible (not tradition, church authority, etc.). Christianity is believing, not doing. Yet, ironically, if one truly believes the Bible he will practice a God-obeying life, not because of his own power or goodness or will but because of the work of God’s Spirit in him. Furthermore, a saving relationship with God only derives from belief in the Son who taught that resting upon Him alone and His work will save you.
Contrary to your comments that beliefs in other religions doesn’t make for bad people and that working in benefit of humanity makes one a good person, the Bible teaches fallen man is totally depraved and unable to do good. Not only unable but unwilling (Romans 8:7). His will is enslaved to sin unless God frees it. Your standard of good is not God’s. God’s standard of good is perfection and holiness and that which is done to His glory. This is something only He can perform in the heart of a sinner, but saving faith must precede. Either the tree is made good and brings forth good fruit or it remains evil and continues bringing forth evil fruit.
Your guest’s comments are equally unbiblical and dangerous. The core of Christianity is Christ, not pious living. Striving for lofty standards of moral behavior in order to be saved sounds pious but is actually poisonous. Trusting in the slightest way in your own goodness and works will land you in hell. Christ alone is the sinner’s hope for He alone is the Righteousness of God. Only His righteousness can qualify one for eternal life in the presence of a holy God.
P.S. Judging by comments the doctrine of regeneration (“born again”) is not understood. The human soul requires regenerating before it can believe, not vise-versa. That was the point of Christ’s teaching in relating the Spirit’s operation to that of the wind. We are passive in the process. Should the Spirit desire to regenerate the soul He will and the soul that is regenerated is totally unaware of what is happening. Just as we don’t work to be justified, sanctified, or saved, neither do we work to be regenerated. The soul is dead, sold unto sin, and hostile to God until He brings it back to life and makes it willing to believe the gospel.
P.P.S. Okay, so the thief on the cross wasn’t saved after all? And, just one final comment in regards to the Catholic Church. You could not find a more anti-free market outfit in the history of man. They not only believe all you material goods should serve them but your soul as well. Read John Robbin’s Eccesiastical Megalomania from http://www.trinityfoundation.org for starters to understand this.
Hello Greg,
First we need to thank Al and Peter for bringing up the subject.
This gave us all the opportunity to share the true message.
Many may still be confused as many have been confused through out the ages.
Christians do not have to be upset, that some are not aware of the message.
but, we all are required to help others see the message which was given to PAUL..
SEE ACTS.. We all need Grace…for that is what we as gentiles were given..
So extending grace at this point would be approperate. Iron sharping Iron.
Love ya brother..May God bless the message which all have given on this session.
And for anyone who is not a christian,,,please forgive us of our trespasses.
Submitted with respect to all readers.
Hi silverbug (Dave), bentnail and Greg,
Here are my personal thoughts on some of your comments.
First of all, regarding the thief on the cross, I believe that he was saved.
Regarding the Catholic Church’s feelings that all your material goods should serve them is something that I have not encountered. Our particular Pastor feels that people, if they are able, should give 5% to 10% to charities and that 2% of that should go to either the parish or the archdiocese.
Regarding my misguided religious beliefs, I think that you will find my basic beliefs are similar to yours, Greg. My firm personal belief is that my relationship is with God and not with a particular church. I am equally comfortable in a Catholic, Lutheran or Baptist Church. By the way, I have attended all of these recently.
I too firmly believe that good works are incredibly important. I am not sure how one can be a Christian and not strive to do good works. I also believe, as you do, that salvation comes from God and not from simply being a good person.
I don’t believe that my statement is in anyway dangerous. Remember, I am saying that a firm belief in God is the critical issue. How can anyone disagree with that?
Yes, silverbug (Dave) governments do the dirty deeds and then utilize religion as an aid.
Bentnail, I don’t think that I fall into the category of a “deer in the headlights”. Let me elaborate, Most of the religious material that I read is not from the Catholic Church. As an example, Norman Vincent Peal’s book, The Power of Positive Thinking, absolutely changed my life as have a number of other books written by religious figures. Maybe some of you think that I am being simplistic. But I want to say again that “Al Korelin’s most important relationship is with God and not with a particular church. This does not mean that I disagree with any of the basic tenets of Christianity.
Again Bentnail, to say that Jesus sacrifice on the cross was insufficient is, obviously, absurd. I would never even imply that.
Thanks for all the comments so far.
Big Al
AL:
RED FLAG ALERT!!! You said that Norman Vincent Peale’s Book “Power of Positive Thinking” changed your life. First off, that is a little troubling seeing as though Norman Vincent Peale was a 33rd degree Freemason and that his message of “Positive Thinking” is identical to the New Age claptrap nowadays such as that found in “The Secret”. What it all boils down to is “ME, ME, ME” — message of self-esteeem are focused on self (not God). That was the entire purpose of Peale’s Book (as well as other Freemason’s like Robert Schuller of the Crystal Cathedral) – he was a student of Peale (and Rick Warren – another wolf in Sheep’s clothing has openly stated that he was influenced by Schuller – Rick Warren belongs to the CFR.).
All of this “Power of Positive Thinking”, “Name it and claim it”, “Prosperity Preaching” is ALL focused on self — I can get a higher self-esteem, I can get wealth, I can get … I can get … I can get (ME, ME, ME) — where is God in all of this? He takes a back seat because we are too busy focusing on self, rather than on Him and what He did for us!!!
Good Morning Bentnail,
You must believe me when I say that, in the case of Al Korelin, it is DEFINITELY NOT ABOUT ME, ME, ME. I could not exist if that were the case.
Regarding Peal’s book, the message that I got was quite a bit different. I don’t go into any new age philosophies or whatever.
Jesus said, “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” To me, that implies that if you want to live the life He taught you to live you have to realize that God created you and He created your neighbors.
Would God create you as a person who went around all the time with his/her head down, feeling that he was not worthy of God’s many blessings?
I firmly believe that if you want to live correctly you must: Realize that salvation comes from God alone, do all you can to make this world a better place, and realize that God created you so that you could do that albeit not in a perfect manner.
No, I do not subscribe to any type of new age philosophy. I am very grounded in my basic beliefs and I try as hard as I can to live according to my beliefs.
Thanks for the comment,
Big Al
Jerry,
You appear to be dispensational in your thinking which means you should read the entire Bible, especially Romans, and find that God saves all His people, Jew or Gentile, the same way, by grace and imputing the righteousness of Christ through faith. That is the gospel message from Genesis to Revelation.
Al,
The thief believed and that’s all that was necessary to be saved. You don’t believe that.
The Catholic Church is fascist to the core. Under Roman Catholic political and economic philosophy one’s goods are subordinate to the church and state who regulate and control them. Your pastor’s standards of charity, etc. are a perfect example of Roman Catholic domineering ecclesiology. They set aside the commandments of God for their own much the way the Pharisees did, even to the point of binding heavy burdens on men’s consciences in order to be saved.
Al, you are being disingenuous to say our basic beliefs are similar. To say you are equally comfortable in the denominations you named illustrates the point (only, unfortunately, the protestant mainlines have rejoined Rome to a very large extent). If you are comfortable with Catholic soteriology you and I will not see one another in eternity.
You do not understand or believe the gospel. Simply believing in God doesn’t save you. And a reconciled relationship with Him is based upon belief in Christ alone which you have clearly not done. You are throwing in works (in regards to which you may want to examine what comes out of your mouth and what you do on the Lord’s Day. Expletives and taking God’s name in vain – along with breaking the Fourth Commandment upon attendance of investment conferences on Sunday, fall far short of the glory of God.) No, it’s not possible to be a Biblical Christian (i.e. true believer) and remain in your sin. But it’s also not possible to do good works without first believing the gospel, i.e. trusting in Christ’s righteousness alone to be justified before God.
Finally, it’s going to be hard to think positively in hell. There’s no hope in such false gospels. It’s time to take a good look at yourself, see that there’s is nothing good in you, that you can’t do anything good, and that only the perfect righteousness of Christ can qualify you for eternal life. Only then can and will you begin doing good works. At that point they will be the fruit of salvation, not contributing factors to it as you think they are.
GREGG.
Thanking you for reading my note to you. I think in my note to you was not ment to offend you. Thanks for the suggestion on reading Romans,,,but that would only confuse the issue. (by the way just so you know I have read the entire bible ,, and more than once., just so we are clear, )
Since you referred to dispensational, if you are referring to the message that Jesus gave Paul…then you are correct. AND thanks for using the word DISPENSALIONAL..BECAUSE I was afraid that might scare some people off.
In my statements from the beginning ,,,I have stated that FAITH PLUS NOTHING..
IS THE MESSAGE.., and works and the law do not apply to todays Christians.
and that message is given by Grace can be read in ACTS.
That does not mean you only should read Acts…but, I agree with you that,
you should read and want to read the entire bible,,so you have a clear understanding , as to the history , so no man can misguide you.
Good morning Gregg,
Thank God for free speech and the ability for discourse!
I am not sure that you fully understand just exactly what I believe and that’s okay.
You sound like a person who is living his life in a good manner and I, for one, certainly appreciate that.
Regarding attending investment conferences on a Sunday, God said that Sunday should be a “day of rest and a time to reflect on God and worship”. Trust me my friend, just because I am at an investment conference does not mean that I am not reflected on reflecting on my “boss” and resting.
Best,
Al
What are you doing there, turning the tables over? Al, is your god mammon? Or mining companies? Or your business? Then is makes sense for you to be at those conferences on a Sunday. But if the God of the Bible is truly your God then you ought to be keeping the Christian Sabbath holy and not trampling upon it with your business pleasure. If you truly loved the Lord you would keep His commandments for love is the fulfillment of the law. You continue to give yourself away as an unrepentant unbeliever who twists the Scripture to his own destruction.
I don’t care if we’re talking science, history, politics, or religion, only FOOLS are certain of anything – and I see a lot of certainty in all the comments here.
The mind is like a parachute, it has to open to be of any use.
MATTHEW:
If I recall, Jesus as pretty certain of everything – was He a FOOL?
I am not certain of everything … for instance, I thought that I had typed a “W” before “as” in my above statement — I goofed up (LOL).
If he had existed the answer would be yes – but he didn’t, so…
Matthew:
You trapped yourself with your prior statement — “if he had existed the answer would be yes – but he didn’t, so…” — are you certain of that? If so, then by your own admission, you are a FOOL for claiming to know that with 100% certainty. If He did exist, then your point is moot.
Matthew:
Just so you don’t forget, you said: ” only FOOLS are certain of anything.”
Did I say I am certain? If evidence miraculously avails itself, I am very ready to change my tune. The same goes for Zeus and all the others.
You and I both know that you are purposely missing the point. I go where the evidence takes me, while most people (you?) go where their bias takes them.
If you want to play games the way a five-year-old might, you could very well say with certainty that you just tied your shoes. You would obviously not be a fool, and I would be wrong.
Matthew:
First off, check the words “did not” in the dictionary – as in “he didn’t, so…” — did not is an absolute statement (meaning that it is certain). So yes, you did say that you were certain that Christ did not exist. And thus, by your own admission, you are a FOOL.
Second, you say you go where the evidence takes you. i might ask, which evidence might that be? That of Charles Darwin – who himself believed it ubsurd to suggest that an all-powerful creator did not create the universe and all that is in it? Is that your evidence? Or is your evidence learned from what you have been taught by Hollywood and the mainstream media? If so, I feel very sorry for you!!!
Personally, I go by the REAL evidence: archaeological findings, 2000 plus year old prophecies that are only found in the bible, the fact that all fingers are pointed at the Person of Jesus Christ (denying His existence, attacking His words – as are found in the bible etc.) but are not pointed at Buddha, Confucius, etc.. The attack is ALWAYS against Jesus Christ and ALWAYS against the bible (why do you suppose no one ever attacks Buddha and the like, but they feel the need to attack Jesus Christ? And why are countless movies put out that attak the authenticity of the Holy Bible, but none that attack the Hindu Vedic texts, or the teachings of the New Age Movement … is this just a coincidence? Nope. It is because the enemy (Satan) has to go after the REAL DEAL … he could care less if there are countless false teachings out there (in fact, he loves it for they are leading scores of people to hell) — he attacks the REAL DEAL because it threatens his dream of being worshipped by all of humanity (which is coming, as is prophesied in the holy bible — one world government, one world economy, one world religion.
Who has the evidence? certainly not you!!! Let me leave you with a few quotes:
“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime.
Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment
their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king? . . . after that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men . . . the wise king . . . lived on in the teachings
he enacted.” (Syriac Manuscript: Mara Bar Serapion, 73 A.D. – British Museum)
“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to
call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.” (Antiquities of the Jews (18.3.3): Flavius Josephus
(Romano-Jewish historian), 93 A.D.)
“Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt
and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus…” (The Annals and the Histories: Tacitus (Roman historian), 109 A.D.)
“On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ‘He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel
to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.’ But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!” (Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin – Folio 43a (44-45))
“I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man.
Between Him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creation of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him.” (Napoleon Bonaparte, 1769 – 1821)
“I am an historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as an historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.” (H.G. Wells, 1866 – 1946)
“Socrates taught for 40 years, Plato for 50, Aristotle for 40,
and Jesus for only 3. Yet the influence of Christ’s 3-year ministry infinitely transcends the impact left by the combined 130 years of teaching from these men who were among the greatest philosophers
of all antiquity.”
Darwin? What would he have to do with anything? And did I say anything about an all-powerful creator?
Face it, Bentnail, you are biased. You have an emotional interest in what the truth is. Due to this fact, you will likely NEVER be open to information that you do not like. I, on the other hand, just want to know the truth, whatever it may be. From an emotional standpoint, I couldn’t care less what it is. From an educational standpoint, I am extraordinarily interested. You are simply not a disinterested party.
I am not “attacking” anything, nor do I have any use for Hollywood or the mainstream media. Your ramblings amount to desperation.
You obviously don’t know what constitutes “REAL” evidence. If there were any, we would no longer call it “FAITH” now, would we?
I love this shot in the dark: “Who has the evidence? certainly not you!!!”
Brilliant.
Jerry, works and the law, in relationship to salvation, never applied to anyone, Jew or Gentile, pre-Christ or post-Christ. It’s always been by faith in Christ alone. Romans won’t confuse the issue, it will help clear up your thinking. Galations too, I hope.
Sola Scriptura
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solo Christos
Solo Deo Gloria
Gregg.
Do you even know what the message to Paul was, , by your comments
the anwser is no. The Jews do not believe that Jesus is the way..and that
Jesus came to save them….that is why they rejected him.
I think you are the one confused…
Jerry, how is the message to Christians today different than the message to Jews under the Old Covenant?
The JEWISH CUSTOM WAS UNDER THE LAW…THE BLOOD SACRIFICE
THAT IS WHY JESUS CAME AND ENDED THE LAW BY SHEDDING HIS
BLOOD ON THE CROSS….AND IT WAS FINISHED.
THen JESUS MEET Paul on the road to DEMASCUS, AND GAVE AND
SAID THE MESSAGE WAS OF BY FAITH..NOTHING ELSE.NO WORKs WHICH IS UNDER THE LAW (ALL JEWS HAD TO DO THE LAW)..READ IT FOR YOUR
I may be missing your message or idea…or something … but we as christians
are not under the law or works……You are confusing works and having to do
anything ,,,which becomes law….this is confusing to some ..but the message
was all were given Grace, (GOD AT THAT TIME FORGAVE EVERYONE THAT BELIEVED OR HAD FAITH….AND ALL SINS WERE FORGIVEN PAST ,,PRESENT AND FUTURE…
You have an issue with the Catholics,,,,but, even Christians are practicing the Law
thur…required tithing, baptism…(these are law items) God forgave all these things
and when you go back and confuse the message,, FAITH PLUS NOTHING.
NO WORKS,,,NO LAW…
MATTHEW:
Rather convenient how you ignored all of the aforementioned quotes.
I did not ignore your quotes, they simply do not change the facts. Quotes do not amount to proof.
Absolutely nothing is as the herd thinks. The herd will never figure out just how deep the rabbit hole goes, not because anyone will stop them, but because their own fear will stop them. Fear, or any negativity, is not conducive to learning or the research needed. Does a doctor become a brain surgeon reluctantly? Is he half-assed and not dedicated to what he is learning? Does he really not want to be a surgeon at all? I’m sure the answer to all three is “no” 99.9 percent of time.
Matthew:
Okay … humour me then.
What do you belief happens to you after death? Are you evolving into a higher life form? Are flying squirrels going to invade the planet and set up shop at the White House? Do you believe that we are worm food after we breathe our last? What is your belief and what do you base it on — that is to say, show me the evidence. After all, you are blasting me about providing you with evidence and even though I have (archaeology, bible prophecy, attacks on Christ alone, quote after quote) it just isn’t enough for you — which goes to show me that you are beyond the pale (won’t use reason).
Regardless, please humour me!!! If not, then quit your rambling please because it will fall on deaf ears (not like it shouldn’t have after your first asinine post).
I won’t disrespect myself or my work, by “humouring” an angry little person.
That anger, by the way, is a window. And through that window lies insecurity and uncertainty. I believe the two may be having an affair.
Matthew, your reasoning is self-contradicting and therefore self-refuting. At every turn you are exhibiting your own bias. All systems of thought are biased, i.e., they have to begin with assumed premises. The issue, therefore, isn’t whether or not there is a bias but whether the bias is true which you have yet to prove with your own thinking. In fact, it is false because certainty isn’t possible in your system of thought and therefore you can never truly know if it is true. You are a skeptic. Aside from that, evidences never arrive at truth because inductive/empirical arguments are fallacious.
It’s all about likelihoods, Greg. If you want to be silly like bentnail and focus on my use of the word “didn’t”, you do so specifically to avoid the point. Yes, there are virtual certainties with respect to observable physical evidence. This evidence is precisely what must be ignored by those of FAITH. It is axiomatic!
The story of Jesus is simply the re-telling of a MUCH OLDER story. This is 99.999 percent certain. My philosophy is to refrain from calling anything 100% certain. To do so is to close your mind. For example, there are flowers whose colors you would swear are solid, but in fact are covered in polka dots if viewed in wavelengths of light that are outside human perception.
Here are just a few of the two-dozen plus, “Jesuses”:
Mithra 1200 BC
Attis 1200 BC
Dionysus 500 BC
Horus 3000 BC (!!!)
Each was born of a virgin on December 25; crucified; dead for 3 days; resurrected.
There are many other rehashed details such as 12 disciples and turning water into wine. The faithful will call it all a coincidence. The clear mind calls it proof.
The difference between my bias and yours, is mine will change if warranted.
Matthew:
With all due respect, you may want to look in the mirror — only then will you discover what true anger and insecurity look like. You are one angry person.
MATTHEW:
Finally the truth is revealed. I figured that this was where you were coming from (I didn’t want to assume as I made that mistake with Dan). But it is clear — beyond the shadow of a doubt — that you have receivd your so-called knowledge from the media — namely the movie “Zeitgeist” (or the like). The entire claptrap about the story of Jesus being a copy of ancient tales of old.
I know, I know, you are going to say that “no, I did not get my information from Zeitgeist” — blah blah blah — but it is clear that you did. If that is your source of information then I can only sit back and scratch my head. The producer gave NO actual historical proof to back his claims … a manuscript, a carving, nothing!!! We are simply supposed to take him at his word — ha ha ha — great evidence!!!
It is laughable when people say stuff like “the Christian Trinity was copied off of ancient pagan civilizations”. Why? Because if you look at the BIGGER PICTURE, you would realize that according to scripture, Lucifer was in heaven with God before being cast down to earth. In other words, he saw God in the fullness of His glory long (as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) long before the creation of Satan’s false trinities of the pagan nations — in other words, it was not Christianity that copied the concept of the trinity, but rather, the master counterfeiter (the father of lies) Lucifer / Satan who copied the REAL Trinity in order to create confusion in the minds of men (such as yourself).
as for the Dec. 25th nonsense … again, it does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that the catholic church (which is highly pagan) chose to celebrate Christ’s birth on that particular day because it revolves around the inter solstice — hence the term “Christ-MASS” — mass is a Catholic term). Likewise with Easter, the Catholic church called Christ’s death / resurrection (Easter — after the ancient Babylonian Goddess Ishtar, or Semiramis) — this is not Christian … it is 100% Catholic.
I could go on and on … but as I have mentioned before, you are clearly beyond the pale. That is to say, you have thrown all rational thought out the window a long time ago.
Note: I said that “this is not Christian. it is 100% Catholic.” Should have said, this is not biblical, but rather, a tradition of the Catholic Church (as an organization).
Zeitgeist is very wrong on the subject of money, but very right on this one. In fact, the makers lifted their info from countless sources. For your information, what they provided wasn’t even the tip of the iceberg. With an attitude such as yours, you are doomed to go through life with massive blinders on. There are amazing things hiding right under your nose. You could open your mind and do some research you know. Try to verify what you don’t believe instead of dismissing it. Or did Kirk Cameron forbid it?
Bottom line, faith is still the belief in that for which there is no proof.
As far as my being angry, go back through the posts and you’ll see who got defensive and angry at a very general comment in which your name (whatever it is) wasn’t even mentioned.
You and zombie #2 are offended by different views.
I have to add that it is rather ridiculous to be told this: “…you have thrown all rational thought out the window a long time ago.” by someone who has an invisible friend.
MATTHEW:
Sorry pal, you have things backwards — the blinders are on you (but since you are blind you cannot see them). Again, the producer did not back up his information with ANYTHING!!! NOTHING!!! ZIPPO!!! Not only that, but his motives for producing the movie are as transparent as a sheet of cling:
1. Right out of the gate he attacks Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible — no attack against Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad, Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard, Helena Blavatsky, Aleister Crowley — noperight out of the gate he attacks Christ (THAT IS YOUR FIRST CLUE WHAT HE WAS UP TO).
2. He attacks Christ WITHOUT providing any eveidence whatsoever — wow, that is great information — did I ever tell you that it is a fact that the planet Venus is made of cream cheese? It is … it really is. Just trust me on that one!!!
3. He uses the most ridiculous logic — ie. he wrongly assumes that just because Jesus multiplied the bread and the fish that this means that Jesus represents the great teacher from the age of Pisces. That is a logical as someone picking up a hunting magazine and reading about Billy Bob Smith who shot a ram on his farm and assuming that he is a great teacher from the age of Taurus (WHAT STUPID REASONING — ANYBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN ON THEIR SHOULDERS CAN READ RIGHT THROUGH THIS NONSENSE).
3. He mixes truths that can be proven (the conspiracy of the global elite) with a tonne of stuff that cannot be (ie. Horus was crucified). Why do people mix truth with fiction? To strengthen their lie!!! What was the producer’s biggest lie (and most see-through as far as I am concerned?) The fact that he attacks Christ and no one else (AS DO ALL FALSE RELIGIONS) and then exposes some truth (BANKING CARTEL RULING THE WORLD) and then he finishes it up with the kicker (especially in his second movie) — that even though the ruling elite are evil and he is exposing them, he agrees with their religious beliefs (IF YOU STUDIED THE GNOSTIC / NEW AGE BELIEFS OF THE ELITE, YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THIS).
In short, the purpose of the movie was to bash and distort truth (Jesus Christ and the bible), mix in some truths (911, banking, etc.), and then finish with the hegelian solution (promotion of New Age doctrines that teach all is one and that man is evolving into a higher level of consciousness — blah blah blah). It just too sad that you cannot read through the nonsense — it seems as though you have blindly walked into the snare of the devil.
I ask you this — if there is a great force out there called the universe that we are all a part of, and if we are evolving spiritually, then why on earth would I follow such a belief to begin with. I mean, if I am evolving spiritually via reincarnation, then I can always come back and try again in another life if my Christianity is wrong. That is if I was wrong. Do you have the same option if you are wrong?
Seriously, anyone who is using the smallest amount of logic knows full well that the belief in reincarnation is the silliest one to follow on this side of the grave because if we choose another religion and are wrong, we can always come back in a future life and try again.
Zeitgeist is a MAJOR PROPAGANDA film — I just can’t believe that you have fallen for it. And to think that you claim to be in the know. Heck, you can’t even see that just because someone makes a movie that tells you pizza was created by the Inuit, that it does not mean that it is true.
The film may well be propaganda. But you said yourself that truths are mixed in. So why is it that you, and you alone, know which parts are truth? The purpose may well be to bash Christianity, but you assume it’s because Christianity is the truth. What if it’s because they are done with it? What if it was a tool of theirs that has served it’s purpose and is not compatible with the coming new order? Fear alone stops you from considering these things.
Remember what Dan said about assuming. You have no idea how I self-censor. My expedient examples were nothing. And reincarnation? It’s as crazy as the rest.
MATTHEW:
You said: “The film may well be propaganda.” — You think? LOL
You said: “…why is it that you, and you alone, know which parts are truth?” — I would be a fool to claim to be the only one that can see through the pathetic attempt of Peter Joseph — a child could see through it!!! Just not you apparently.
You said: “The purpose may well be to bash Christianity…” — WOW, you actually do have some commonsense (just not a lot).
You said: “What if it [Christianity] was a tool of theirs that has served it’s purpose and is not compatible with the coming new order?” — You should try and get a date with Oprah Winfrey — you guys would get along just great with your New Age beliefs — after all, Helena Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Barbara Marx Hubbard, all taught / teach the exact same concept (that Christians and Jews will have to be killed off in the last days to make way for the New World Order). YEAH, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A TOLERANT RELIGION — BY THE WAY, THESE NEW AGERS ALSO TEACH THAT LUCIFER IS GOD. Go figure … the bible prophesied over 2000 years ago that all of this would come (Lucifer will be worshipped, people will say “I AM” — or “I have Christ-consciousness” (why not Buddha-consciousness?) and that Christians will be persecuted for their faith and the world (ie. YOU) will believe that you are doing God a favour (or the universe … or whatever you want to call your god — maybe your god is a toilet seat, who knows). Regardless, just more proof that the bible is 100% accurate.
Bentnail, there you go assuming again. Your intensity would probably drop a few notches if you were really as sure of yourself as you pretend.
I would also like to point something out that would have saved you some time and stress. When I said Jesus didn’t exist, all you had to say is “I disagree” or something more realistic (considering it’s you) like: “You are wrong.” That would have been the end of it. I would not have retorted “prove it” as you and certain other creepy people here might. I have not asked anyone to prove anything.
Forums such as this are for comments of all kinds. Why comment at all if everyone agrees? This is not the place, at least for me, to hold impromptu court hearings. If what I say bothers you, dismiss it as I do your comments. I have no interest in providing the “proof” that you demand.
I think I will focus more on the financial side of things where analysis is valued, and people actually know when they are wrong based on evidence – like losing money.
MATTHEW:
I hope for your sake that you are not this bitter in real life — you are one angry dude!!!
Wow, this is really heating up.
I go to bed, only to wake up in ‘ole Blighty to find you guys over the pond slugging it out!
Matthew,: I find that Bible prophecy is irrefutable proof that God (if there is one) indeed exists. That this God of the Bible has revealed things that happen before they happen (which demonstrates that He is outside of time & therefore eternal). Also that Bible prophecy has proven to be 100% correct 100% of the time (which demonstrates that the Bible & thus the God of the Bible is to be 100% trusted)
Bentnail: Thanks for your earlier comment. You sound like you listen to Brannon Howse/Ray Comfort (which is a complement). Good on ya!
Big Al: I love you man, the thief on the cross clearly shows that good works are not needed for salvation, just true repentence & belief. Ah…I hear you ask…”What about all the so-called Christians who are nasty, gossipers, bitter etc..?” I would humbly contend that such people (& unfortunately there are plenty of them) are not born again & are therefore clearly not Christians. If you are born again then, as has been said already in this thread, the Holy Spirit will regenerate you & you will become the new creation that scripture promises. A ‘Christian’ who continues to live an habitual sinful life is no Christian at all. We’ve just got to go back to scripture for everything Al.
Thanks for addressing my point personally as well also for being so gracious about my comments.
Karen:
Tee Hee — good call. I listen to Brannon Howse and Kirk Cameron / Ray Comfort – along with some others. The more views the better — it is awesome to be living today because as you know, knowledge shall increase in the latter days. Well, I believe that those days are here.
Hi Bentnail,
I have a question. (Maybe I am too shallow to participate in this discussion, but I will try.)
How can Christmas and Easter not possibly be Christian, but something foisted on us by the Catholic Church?
Please explain.
Best,
Shallow Al formerly known as Big Al
They aren’t Christian because they aren’t in Scripture which teaches we are only to worship with positive warrant.
Al:
First, the name “Christ-mass” gives it away for the word “mass” is not mentioned in scripture. “Mass” is a Catholic term.
Second, no where in scripture are we told that Christ’s birthday occured during the winter solstice … so did the bible tell us to celebrate Christ’s birthday at that time? No. If not, who did? Well, who has been the predominant religious institution for the last umpteen years? The Roman Catholic Church — who practices “mass” – hence Christ-mass.
Why Easter? Because it is very clear that the Catholic Church is “Mystery Babylon the Great” spoken of in the Book of Revelation — that is because she stems out of ancient Babylon (one only needs to look at their symbology to verify this. Babylon had as its goddess, Ishtar (from where we get the term “Easter”).
Why did the Catholic Church do this? Because they wanted to control as many of the Roman citizens as possible. Since there were Christians and Pagans living within Rome at that time, they needed to blend the two belief systems into one: hence the Patron Saints of Catholicism and the pagan gods / goddesses being one and the same (albeit one calls them saints, the other calls them gods) — that is why you have the Patron Saint of Rain and the Pagan god of rain; the Patron Saint of fertility and the god / goddess of fertility; etc.. It is all one and the same.
That is how the Catholic Church came to worship Christ during the pagan winter solstice … and named the time of His death / resurrection “Easter” — to please both the “Christian” and pagan alike.
Only those that actually followed the word of God spotted the blasphemy and they distanced themselves from the Church — as a result, the Catholic hierarchy let the persecution begin in fear of having the true gospel message of Christ spread (for it would diminish the power of those of the Catholic Churh).
Good Morning Bentnail and Greg,
So, am I to assume that neither of you and/or your families celebrate either of these holidays?
For me, Easter is an incredibly important day because that is when my family and I celebrate the resurrection of our Savior. Seems like the logical thing to do.
Regarding Christmas, I find it to be a wonderful time of year. My experience has been that the season brings families and friends together in a very loving manner. Is that bad? Would Jesus not want that? Boy if I am missing the boat prove me wrong.
Greg, my guess is that you are a Jehovah’s Witness. I have a friend in Vancouver, Washington who follows that faith. We had some great discussions that I must say were neither filled with anger nor judgment.
I, for one, will always keep anger and judgment out of my comments because I value everyone’s opinion and I feel that I can learn something from everyone.
God Bless you both,
Big Al
Al, it’s getting quite difficult to follow the isolated threads we have going on. I just caught this now.
No, I am definitely not a JW. Among other heresies, they teach a works-based salvation too. I’m simply a Bible believer. The Bible teaches we aren’t to add anything to the worship of God but only worship as Scripture gives positive warrant to worship. Christmas and Easter find no warrant, family, friends, and good feelings notwithstanding. And no, Jesus definitely doesn’t want Christians celebrating these days (Matthew 15:9). We are to observe the Lord’s Day which is a weekly reminder of the resurrection, and believers are to partake of the Lord’s Supper which is a regular reminder of Christ’s sacrificial, substitutionary death on their behalf. Regarding Christ’s birthday, Scripture not only doesn’t command believers to observe His birth, it doesn’t even reveal the date.
Vancouver, WA? I wonder if your friend is the JW that came to my door last month. I live downtown.
Hi Al. I to was raised catholic and was taught that only catholics would go to Heaven. They changed this teaching at vatican II . Now they teach it is possible for all Christians to go with the exception of myself and others who have left the catholic church (unless we return). We should not fear any church or man but only the triune God that created this world about 6000 years ago. I find that accepting Christs FREE gift of salvation is difficult for people to get their heads around. In todays society the word free always seems to come with a catch. But in Gods econemy it literaly means free. You just have to realize you cannot have eternal life except by realizing you are a sinner and trusting in Christs finished work of salvation. When we get saved we become new creatures created unto good works (Ephesians 2;8-10 ) . If we could get there buy our own goodness then Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21) Al you should read the old catholic duay version of the new testament if you want the truth. They have changed much of the scipture in the newer versions. An example would be the word saint as in philippians 4:22 is now translated as believer or church member in their modern versions. The word saint is also changed in several other places where it refers to people that were alive at the time. Another example is did Mary remain a virgin after Jesus was born. Check Matthew 1:25 and compare. Yes I believe some catholics have come to a knowlede of salvation but its not because they believe the official catholic teachings. Hope to see you and Peter in Heaven some day soon.
Hi John,
I don’t know. Greg says that I will never make it to heaven.
Big Al
Al, I see you are breaking another commandment. This is not what I said. If you come to believe the gospel of Scripture you will go to heaven, but not until you do.
Watch out Al, Greg doesn’t care about the Golden Rule, he enforces the Iron Scripture.
Matthew you are exhibiting your ignorance of the Bible. The Golden Rule necessitates I warn Al of his false beliefs just as I have with you.
If I didn’t care I would just let you both continue on your way to hell.
Hi Greg,
Thank you!
Big Al
You are welcome Al. And thanks for the service you are rendering through your interviews, especially Roger’s daily market analysis. It has been a great blessing to me. Your program has also been a portal to many other sites and programs I take in on a regular basis which have helped me greatly the past few years.
Hi John,
I have never heard the concept that only Catholics can go to heaven. That is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD and anyone who believed this needs to have their head examined.
Regarding you not being able to go to heaven unless you go back to the Catholic Church, I would also say that comment (belief or what have you) is also absurd.
Sounds like I will see you there.
Big Al
Good morning all of you interesting and very bright people,
I think that in each of our own ways we are trying desperately to be the best people you can and to make this world a better place. We don’t have to necessarily agree to accomplish that. We must however remain clear headed and not let anger or personal pride influence our comments.
There is no reason in the world that we cannot disagree. The ultimate truth will come out of discourse and clear thought.
I consider myself to be very fortunate to have folks like you listen to our show and to engage in this discourse.
I hope to see all of you in heaven and, know what, I think that I will.
Big Al
Sorry Al, the ultimate truth will only come out of divine revelation which you have clearly avoided to your own peril. Your heart is on this world and not the next, just like with the Catholic Church. This world is passing away. Therefore, if you continue in your unbelief and sin, you will end up losing out on both.
HI Greg,
As I said earlier, freedom of speech is one of the great things about living in this country. (Some folks may want to focus on, what they consider to be the negative aspects of our country, but I choose to focus on the positive and keep, what I consider to be, the negative aspects in mind.
Michele Obama has her opinion on certain matters and you have certain opinions on certain matters.
You are both able to state them publicly with no fear of repraisal and that is great.
I may not agree completely with you, but I do appreciate your comments.
Best,
Big Al
Matthew, you are making a lot of nonsensical comments and committing a number of logical blunders:
1. Earlier you said most people go with bias while you go with evidence. Now you say you are biased. Perhaps we’re making progress because now you realize going with evidence is a biased approach. But you should realize evidentialism is flawed because, among other things, you will never have enough evidence to determine truth, nor will you ever have enough to declare another system of thought false.
2. You stated you just want to know the truth from an educational standpoint. That’s the only way to know the truth. The latin is educari which means to lead out of darkness into light. The emotional aspect is beside the point. And you are not disinterested. Desiring to know the truth for the sake of truth is not being disinterested.
3. You spoke of real evidences which requires definition as you are equivocating. And you said if there were any we would no longer call it faith. Why? How are faith and evidence mutually exclusive? Is it not your faith – belief – that evidences (of whatever grade) will lead you to truth with at least some measure of relative certainty?
4. Absolutely nothing is as the herd thinks? How do you know this? Have you found evidence in every herd to substantiate your premise? By the way, what constitutes a herd? And why assume that a fear/negativity is impairing what is believed? Maybe they are right and you wrong? Hard to be objective under your system isn’t it.
5. Likelihoods? Virtual certainties? Observable physical evidence? You’re traveling the path of a skeptic and cannot ever arrive at truth. Your epistemological approach is founded on sand because: a. there’s no certainty b. based upon empiricism c. it is based upon evidentialism.
6. Evidence must be ignored by those of faith? It’s axiomatic? How so? Is it not your faith – belief/assumed premise – that evidences afford relative certainty and plow the way to truth? And how is the Biblical Christian necessarily ignoring evidences by virtue of his faith? Just because we don’t found our faith upon the Bible doen’t mean we ignore evidences. We simply don’t place our faith in them like you do.
7. How do you know the older stories from which the story of Jesus is purportedly re-told are true? If you give ready credence to them, why not the Biblical account? Yet, if you do, you will have a contradiction because both cannot be true for the Bible claims a monopoly on truth and the account of Christ and it’s account doesn’t accommodate your other stories.
8. Only 99.999 percent certain? Refrain from 100% certainty? Sorry, you’ll never arrive at truth regardless how dressed to the nines your system is. C’mon, admit it: You are a skeptic. And it’s you who has closed his mind, not the Christian. We believe 100% certainty is possible. By the way, are you 100% certain that nothing is 100% certain? Your system is utterly flawed, self-contradictory and unsalvagable. Change your bias.
9. No, you cannot trust your senses. One reason empiricism and evidentialism are doomed.
Matthew – Correction on point 6: We DO found our faith upon the Bible, not “we don’t”.
Hi again Greg,
I am watching the Mariners – Yankees game, but, you know what these comments are a lot more interesting!
Regarding your comment asking , “how are faith and evidence mutually exclusive?” I have to say that I believe that they are mutually exclusive by definition. That is certainly not to say that faith is valueless. Remember what Jesus told Doubting Thomas?
Best,
Big Al and go Mariners!
Jesus and Thomas illustrate my point. Jesus’ mild rebuke of Thomas was that Thomas shouldn’t have been waiting for evidence to believe. Jesus obliges though and the evidence was there in his hands. Where’s the mutual exclusivity? The Scripture and corroborating evidence harmonize without a problem.
HI Greg,
Maybe I misunderstood you in your earlier comment. I agree with your comment above, “Where’s the mutual exclusivity?”
Best,
Big Al
re: 1. You said: “…you will never have enough evidence to determine truth…”, so apparently, you think it’s okay to arrive at truth with your imagination. This is nuts, oh, wait, I mean faith.
re: 2. The emotional aspect is absolutely NOT beside the point. It’s called conflict of interest. This is why jurors can’t be related to the accused.
re: 3. Faith= a belief not based on proof!
re: 4. The herd is the dominant view. On important issues, it is always wrong, or at least late to figure things out. A good example is the willingness of nearly everyone to take on huge amounts of debt over the last 30 years. As a general rule, it works well to bet against the herd.
re: 5. Sounds good
re: 6. See #3
re: 7. Each story is just the same story, over and over and over, for thousands of years. It is PURE astro-theology. End of story.
re: 8. On complex issues that span much time/space, and involve many characters, I don’t mind your label. The humble person knows that the absolute truth is very difficult to pin down. I’ve seen your crazy judgmental rants. To suggest you have an open mind is idiotic. By the way, love that little demand of yours “Change your bias.”
How ’bout KMA?
re: 9. My senses have served me quite well, thank you.
As far as my comments being nonsensical, to a zombie, they should be.
I know bentnail agrees with you.
Hi Matthew,
I love your comment that, “Faith = a belief not based on proof!”
That does not diminish the VALUE of faith.
Best,
Big Al
Al:
If so, then where does the term “blind faith” come from. That would suggest that the opposite exists. True or false? If the opposite does exist — let’s call it “non-blind faith” — then that would imply that it must be something that is based on something that can be proven (ie. evidence). That is the kind of faith that I have — a faith that began as “blind faith” and after years of study and even by using a little common sense (ie. looking at creation), it eventually became “non-blind faith”. That is to say, I believe that it is very simple to prove the existence of God and the truth of the Holy bible. To those that are still blind (ie. Matthew), they have yet to step out of their little boxes to examine the evidence — rather, they rely on the undocumented opinions of other blind individuals.
Al:
I realize that that sounds like a kindergarden student wrote it — I am at work and am typing from the top of my head — hence the confusion (LOL).
Any faith is BLIND. Buy a dictionary with some of your Canasil “profits”.
I’m back to say that I do NOT have a negative view on Canasil. I posted some comments where you asked Al about the company on the 27th.
Matthew,
1. Give me just one example of having enough evidence to determine truth. And how do you infer me thinking it’s okay to arrive at truth with my imagination?
2. Regardless the extent we are emotionally invested in quest for truth it’s the epistemological approach that is all-important. Apparently you don’t realize the eternal consequences of belief of the truth which is why you aren’t particularly emotionally charged about it.
3. You have changed words on me. I said evidences, not proof. Your faith is based upon historical writings and other things. Your hopeless challenge will be to gather enough evidences to prove your faith true.
4. What constitutes a dominant view, i.e. how much of a majority and out of how big of a group? Why only on important issues is it always wrong or at least late? How did ever arrive at such a notion?
6. You haven’t answered this.
7. Classic begging of the question with a little argumentum authoritatum thrown in!
8. How can the humble know anything if the truth can’t be pinned down? Matthew, you aren’t defending your position at all, just dancing around trying to dodge the penetrating questions. BTW, the demand could serve as a chide as well because you said you would change your bias if were found to be wanting which it indeed is.
9. But per your admittance not enough to establish truth. Very sandy soil for a belief system.
Zombie? Childish abusive ad hominem which you resort to because you lack the humility to admit your wrong.
I feel very sorry for you Greg. Take a break.
Why feeling sorry for me? Consider your philosophical foundation Matthew during the break.
[…] Listen […]
“I’m right and you’re wrong!”
“My belief is better than your belief!”
“God likes me better!”
Why is it so necessary to criticize and condemn others simply because they don’t believe what you believe?
John who are you referring to? If me, you are mistaken as to why I’m taking issue with these men’s belief systems. It isn’t “simply because they don’t believe” what I believe. It’s because ideas have consequences, especially false ones dressed up in Biblical language. The consequences are deadly to the soul.
I SECOND THAT…
Who asked you to be the judge of other men’s “belief systems?”
Was it God?
Is it your divine duty?
Do you have such boundless love for the poor creatures who fail to comprehend the subtle nuances of your righteous condescension (and adapt accordingly) that you feel the need to champion a “crusade” they’re perfectly capable of embarking upon themselves according to their own (God given) nature?
You’re engaging others in conveniently defined terms in order to satisfy yourself.
You’re using God.
John, I wasn’t asked but commanded by God to judge other men’s beliefs. The same goes for all Bible believers. In fact, we are to judge all things. So yes, it is a divine duty.
Your pious language cloaks an evil judgmental spirit of your own and, quite frankly, pathetically misses the mark. Support your aspersions with some sound minded reasoning will you?
I’m not sure what authority you are following but nobody is capable of seeing their own errors. Rationalism is also a flawed approach to truth. If one wants to know himself he must turn to revelation, i.e. God’s Word.
Such vanity…
Hi Al. If you never heard of this before all you have to do is compare a catholic catechism from the 1960s with a modern one.
Hi John,
Everyone seems to be bashing me because I attend a Catholic church.
My philosophy is quite simple:
1. I believe in God
2. I believe that I let God run my life
3. I pray daily and have for some time
4. I do all that I can to help others
5. I do not subscribe to all the beliefs of the Catholic church as do not many of my priest friends.
6. My beliefs are based upon my reading of the Bible (both testaments) and my daily conversations with God.
I am firmly convinced that the Church telling you that you will not go to heaven unless you “return to the fold” is not correct.
Best,
Big Al
Al, the problem is point #6 and that is what we are “bashing”. It is your mistaken beliefs as to what the Bible teaches concerning salvation. It is of faith alone in Christ alone, not of works lest any man should boast. Not our willing or doing or racial stock or sacraments, etc. but trusting in the righteousness of Christ alone to stand justified before Holy God. The Catholic Church teaches meritorious works on the part of the sinner along with penance in order to be cleared of sin and stand just before God. That’s rank heresy and damning to your soul. FWIW, I grew up as a Catholic but by God’s grace have come to see that church as AntiChrist. May you as well.
Craziness is the problem. Never trust anyone who says the bible has a monopoly on the truth! If I were a believer, I would have no interest in following a megalomaniacal “god” such as the one you describe. I believe you created him in your likeness.
Life is passing you by son/sun.
Well look who’s back. Apparently you require longer breaks because you have yet to support your philosophical system. Regarding which, did you know that the “herd” believes as you do? Better go contrarian and give up that ole time evidentialist faith. It simply has no epistemological foundation.
“Never trust anyone who says the bible has a monopoly on the truth!” No but you want us to believe you?
Boy, you really do despise evidence if you think the herd agrees with me. “Evidentialist faith”? What kind of Orwellian psycho crap is that?! This is why I put you in “time-out” yesterday. You made it clear that evidence is meaningless to you. This really means: you CAN’T learn! You are blinded by the writings within the 66 books, and have NO interest in how they really came to be. That IS blind faith.
Funny how you did not address Myron Martin’s third paragraph.
To answer your last question; no, I do not want you or anyone to believe me. You can do whatever you want with what I post. This is obvious to sane people. Unlike you, I do not believe that I can or even should “save” anyone from anything.
Okay here are a few comments:
1. Doesn’t faith in Christ alone imply that you will do good deeds? Seems to me the two go hand in hand.
2. The Catholic Church’s that I have attended all have taught faith in God first and meritorious work and penance second.
To say that the Catholic Church is AntiChrist is an interesting comment. When you were a little boy was there an issue with one of the asshole priests who should have gone to jail?
Best,
Big Al
I’ll support the Catholic church in saying that I have never seen a bunch of catholics burn the US flag or blow up a US embassy.
Hello Al,
The RCC’s that you have attended are teaching contrary to Scripture. It isn’t a matter of when one does meritorious work and penance but that works categorically do not play a part in being declared righteous before God and inheriting eternal life.
Thankfully I wasn’t a victim of of any abuse but who knows what went on behind the scenes. Regardless, one doesn’t have to be guilty of this particular sin to qualify as AntiChrist. I should have been more specific and stated the papacy is the AntiChrist and the reason is because that office fits all the passages of Scripture that deal with the issue. If this subject interests you enough you may want to read the following essay and/or book from which it quotes: http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=252
Brilliant response John. So well thought out and intelligent, and another example of your self-condemning judgmental aspersions.
I rest my case.
What case? LOL
My way of washing my hands of a pointless discussion while alluding to the fact that you act as though spirituality is some form of contest to which you have the only playbook.
Enjoy your psychological masturbation (with God as your witness…)
All your aspersions continue to remain unfounded because you have no case, no logical analysis of anything I’ve said. Talk about masturbation.
WHEW; Where does one even begin to unravel the many provable falsehoods addressed with such certainty and passion from so many differing angles? I suggest we start with a scripture that has not as yet been mentioned Rev.12:9 For Satan HAS DECEIVED the whole world”, not could, might, will, present tense positive, so how many of you professing Christians BELIEVE this biblical statement? Could you actually be deceived because you have listened to preachers (of whatever denomination) teaching you falsehoods that are not biblically supportable, or at the very least are READ INTO the Bible with selective verses whose denominational conclusion is contradicted by other scriptures they have not considered.
The simple truth is that ALL religions are to some degree a mixture of true and error, errors inherited from antiquity that are NOW not questioned or even researched by modern believers as to their biblical authenticity, they are simply taken for granted.
Let me declare myself, I was raised in a very strict and orthodox bible believing religion but I do not call myself a “Christian” today because of the many FALSE beliefs that label conjures up. I am a Bible BELIEVER and take seriously the admonition to the Bereans to “prove all things” something which the vast majority of professing Christians do not do, otherwise they would not be taken in by such obvious pagan myths as the immortality of the soul, the Saviour being born on Dec. 25th, going to heaven etc. ad infinitum. Check any biblical concordance and you will find only 5 scriptural references to immortal or immortality and in no case does it refer to the soul translated from the Hebrew “nephesh” which means living creature.
Christianity is simply riddled with ancient pagan beliefs, try researching the Saturnalia from which “Christ-Mass” was adopted by the pagan Emperor Constantine who on supposed conversion to Christianity was unable to get his pagan subjects to give up the debauchery associated with the superstition surrounding the winter solstice so he came up with the clever idea or labelling it Christ’s birthday with no evidence or proof that was when he was born, try late fall according to the course of Abbia’s priestly service and the birth of His cousin John the Baptist. The FACT is no where in scripture are we COMMANDED to observe the birth of the Creator’s Son, but we are to observe the DEATH of His Son which paid for our sins, and WHEN did he die, on PASSOVER, something Christians ignore and the Jews distort as being just their rescue from Egypt, (symbolic of our rescue from a sinful world). In other words, neither religion gets the connection of the Passover foreshadowing the death of the Saviour, which He fulfilled in type by actually dying on the 14th of Nissan the biblical Passover.
Lets try a few other scriptures to see whether the Bible thumpers understand what they are talking about. Somebody mentioned “the Christian Sabbath” well give me Chap. and verse please? I have studied the Bible from beginning to end for over 50 years and have written at least 3 dozen essays on popular religious beliefs that are NOT provable biblically and nowhere will you find that phrase in scripture, it comes from a biased and false division of scripture and to some degree hatred of Jews, not that they have the biblical Sabbath correct either, but that is to big a subject to get into here, and suffice it to say that the Sabbath has nothing to do with the pagan Roman week we mistakenly follow today, named after their then known seven planets after which they named their pagan gods. Incidentally but importantly, the Messiah was NOT resurrected on Sunday, the scriptures in TEN places say he was resurrected on the THIRD DAY and remember that biblically the Creator named only the 7th day as the SABBATH, the preceding were just numbers and I am sure the Creator who has names for all the stars also knows how many “cycles of seven” have taken place since Gen.1:3
Here is another scripture that flies in the face of the most popular Christian beliefs, John 3:16 is every evangelical Christian’s favourite scripture yet I wonder how many have ever backed up 3 verses and read the following enlightening verse (13) And yet NO ONE has ever gone up to heaven, but there is ONE who has come down from heaven, the son of man (Himself) who is, dwells, Whose home is, in heaven (Amplified)!
Cross reference Acts 2:34 “For David did NOT ascend into the heavens” —– yet David was a man after God’s own heart, so where does that leave those who mistakenly believe they are going to heaven when they die? Think about it, whose ambition was it to to go to heaven and take over the throne of the Creator, so this is one more of Satan’s many clever deceptions.
What is wrong with this earth? NOTHING except disrespect and rejection of the laws of the Creator, which will be enforced when the Messiah comes back to rule Rev. 5.10, and what is the reward of a believer, lolling around heaven strumming a harp or staring into the face of the Saviour, NO, our destiny as the previous verse says is to RULE with Him and teach the nations the proper way to live in harmony with the just and righteous laws our Creator established for our good.
There are a lot of professing Christians today who won’t like some of those laws, for instance how many know and believe that the Bible endorses a specific weight of gold and silver as MONEY and demands precise weights and measures so that no cheating is possible and every man is to be paid a fair wage, not get rich at the expense of other working men by fraudulent means such as our current fiat currency system?
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmma mixture of truth and error because satan has done his job all too well
Hello Myron,
“Lets try a few other scriptures to see whether the Bible thumpers understand what they are talking about. ”
Are you aware you thumped a couple of handfuls?
“Somebody mentioned “the Christian Sabbath” well give me Chap. and verse please? I have studied the Bible from beginning to end for over 50 years and have written at least 3 dozen essays on popular religious beliefs that are NOT provable biblically and nowhere will you find that phrase in scripture,”
Sorry you had to spend so much time and effort finding that out. I could have told you the phrase wasn’t in Scripture sooner. I suppose you don’t believe in the Trinity either because that word is not in Scripture? Or millennium? Do the terms have to be in Scripture to be used? Are not the concepts they signify adequate?
“Incidentally but importantly, the Messiah was NOT resurrected on Sunday, the scriptures in TEN places say he was resurrected on the THIRD DAY and remember that biblically the Creator named only the 7th day as the SABBATH, the preceding were just numbers and I am sure the Creator who has names for all the stars also knows how many “cycles of seven” have taken place since Gen.1:3”
I want you to know I spent about 15 years believing the crucifixion was on a Passover Wednesday and that the resurrection transpired on the following Saturday. About 15 years ago I re-examined the issue and realized I was wrong. The crucifixion occurred on a Passover Friday and the resurrection early Sunday morning just as the christian church has been teaching since the new testament period. The phrase “three days and three nights” derives from a Hebrew idiom used in the Old Testament and means parts or the whole of three days. An example of this is in Esther. If you study out carefully the chronology and terminology of events in the gospels concerning the resurrection you will find there’s no possible way to squeeze 72 hours out of what occurred.
Regarding creation week, it is true the Sabbath was created on the 7th day, but as an institution the Sabbath could be moved to the first day of the week to mark the resurrection and become the Lord’s Day or “Christian Sabbath” which indeed is the New Testament record.
Just one question among many on the rest of your missive: What does “absent from the body, present with the Lord” mean to you?
How is it that multiple religions can know that theirs is the true one? It cannot be. The only honest belief is that “I don’t know” If there is a god, he most definietly would have a better plan than to whisper the plan into the ear of a prophet, who is suppose to tell the world about the plan. Look how the plan could get corrupted. Does god love each and every one of us? Tornados and Tsunamis tell me no. He designed a system for life to evolve and it had to incude wiping out the dumb and the surplus, or else the world would overpopulate to the point of destruction. Hence he created religion for people to fight over and kill themselves off, thus helping to control the population, just like other animals have to deal with. It seems reasonable to me that there is a god, and yet I don’t think the Bible or Koran , or any other religion got the story straight. Listening to that thing inside of me that tells me right and wrong is the only religion I need. And I don’t waste Sundays praising god. Would a god really demand praise anyway? Doesn’t seem likely to me.
Jimmy, you offer up many good questions worthy of exploration. You are correct in that opposing religious faiths cannot both be true. But how do you know that “that thing inside” you is the only religion you need? Perhaps it’s deceiving you. Maybe it fickle or inconsistent or mutable. Could it be misinformed? My point is that the approach you choose to discover truth, determine right and wrong, find God and answers to life’s big questions, etc. must be reliable, even fail safe or you will never arrive at your desired destination of what is true and what isn’t.
Sounds like you espouse an evolutionary theory of creation. Why? Where did you pick up this idea and why do you believe it? Why don’t you believe the Bible or Koran or any other book has the story straight? Are you simply relying upon your own reasoning and nothing else?
Lastly, you asked whether a god would demand praise. An almighty, omnipotent, omniscient holy God would? Otherwise He wouldn’t be God.
Your thoughts engender deep thought and well worth wrestling with. I do suggest you read the Bible. That’s where I found the answers.
“Your thoughts engender deep thought and well worth wrestling with.” This is funny. Jimmy shows what’s known as common sense and you hand him an arrogant line. You didn’t address his question though. So Greg, why the bible over all the others? Gee, you don’t think it has something to do with the land in which you were raised, do you? Maybe it’s a tradition in your family? Surely, evidence did not play a role.
Matthew, you fast faded when put to the test during our original discussion on your flawed evidentialism but enjoy reappearing for digs whenever you think you can get them in. Alas, your efforts at discrediting me have failed again and shown you to be someone who really isn’t objective, disinterested, and earnest about truth.
If you’ll read Jimmy’s comments again you’ll see he was open to testing his beliefs. He used the word “seem” twice, and much of what he said was put in question format. As far as “common sense”, I asked him if he was simply relying upon his own reasoning. Your assumptions about me believing in the Bible due to being reared in America or tradition are only assumptions and again show you cannot determine truth evidentially or empirically. You can never know anything.
All that “faded” Greg, was the interest to deal with you in a serious manner. You are clearly unstable.
To answer your response further up the page, your faith is in evidences, that’s where your whole philosophical system rests. Yet, you agree you can’t be 100% certain. Therefore evidences cannot furnish truth. Your faith is in vain. And yes, you definitely are with the herd on this. The entire public education system is founded upon the empirical model of scientific investigation.
There are actually a number of points of Myron’s I didn’t address. But so far as Christmas, why is it funny to you I didn’t say anything? Actually, if you travel further up the page you’ll see I answered Al on this issue. I am very much in agreement with Myron’s comments.
Your allegation that I am looking to “‘save'” anyone is unfounded. Your quote is a straw man. You’d better lie down and take another break.
“Never trust anyone who says the Bible has a monopoly on the truth!”
You don’t want anyone to believe this statement of yours? Then why did you type it? Are you masturbating again?
Sorry about the masturbation comment. I mistook you for using the term previously.
Al and Peter,
Gosh I hope that my post doesn’t offend you guys, cause I thank god for you guys every day.
Thanks Jimmy,
Truly appreciate that.
God Bless,
Al
Man without God and His Word can rationalize anything to be ok. I know I was there.
John R,
I could not agree with you more!
Big Al
Al, I find your agreement disappointing. Adherence to the common sense wisdom of the Golden Rule comes very naturally to most people, whatever their beliefs.
Matthew
History suggests the opposite. Radicals within any faith will rationalize death and destruction if they feel it’s god will.
Al,
It is impossible to live the Christian life in the flesh. If living the Christian life is doing best I can do–then their is no need for a savior. May I suggest that only Christ can live the Christian life. When we are born again we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit who enables us to live as God intended. The disciples were to wait for the Holy Spirit who guides us how to live.Acts 1:8 (New International Version)
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. They were told wait for the Holy Spirit–then the gospel would be carried to the ends of the earth—it is no different for us. Paul said : Galatians 2:20 (New International Version)
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself . Realizing that that Christ lives in me through the power of the Holy Spirit takes all the pressure off me so I can live as He intended–But He is a gentleman and will allow me operate in the flesh—and on the surface initially can look good to men but ultimately is failure in God’s eyes– My suggestion is to get a great book by Charles Stanley called “The Wonderful Spirit Filled Life” It has greatly helped me in my Christian walk—hope this helps
Sooo………………..where do you see silver heading into June Al??….(only kidding)
Thanks Big Al for being gracious in letting us all say just what we think.
I don’t want to bash Roman Catholics or anyone else. I think if people go back through this thread then they will see it was I who first specifically ‘challenged’ you about Roman Catholic doctrine. I did so out of Christian love for you.
There have been many things said to & fro but for the sake of simplicity I would like to point you towards a couple of articles on Roman Catholicsm specifically with regard to eternal salvation. I have no illusions that this will completely answer all your questions. However, I do feel that this may be a means by which you could begin to explore these issues for yourself.
You are familiar (I am sure) with the saying, “A man convinved against his will, is of the same opinion still”. We all need to reach conclusions of our own accord. Of course, I would be lying if I said I had no desire for you to reach the same conclusion that i have reached!!
Anyways, The Berean Call is a well established ministry by a couple of men who have authored many books over their many years of service.
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/5799
http://www.thebereancall.org/node/5800
God Bless you Big Al (definitely NOT shallow….for lack of better terms)
naomal
Good morning Fred K,
I would not disagree with you. I would simply say that I am doing everything that I possibly can and I have been for quite some time now.
I am only mortal and where I go depends completely on God’s will.
Best,
Big Al
I believe in the golden rule, namely: that one should treat others as you would wish them to treat you.
I am not Christian and not anti-Christian.
I am not jewish and not anti-jewish.
I am not muslim, but I am anti-muslim!
I cannot accept ANY faith that teaches that it is acceptable to lie in the furtherance of that faith.
I do accept any faith that lets others believe as they wish. Islam is not such a faith.